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Author Topic: An unimportant question!  (Read 2648 times)

KickThatBathProf

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An unimportant question!
« on: 29 Sep 2009, 07:31 »

I have a weird question that requires both knowledge of acoustic pianos and of recording technology.  See, there is a middle pedal on most pianos that enables you to play one half of the instrument with regular pedal (the one on the left) and the other half without. I've been experimenting with it lately and have noticed a sound I really like when I use the pedal and play just the half that is without.  Now for the recording technology part.  Is there a way that I could capture that sound but cut out the initial striking of the keys?
« Last Edit: 29 Sep 2009, 08:32 by KickThatBathProf »
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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #1 on: 29 Sep 2009, 07:41 »

Do you mean the striking of the key by your finger, or the striking of the string by the hammer?
if it's the first, I could conceive of a way to position the microphone to pick up the sounds of the strings vibrating and not the key being struck.  If it's both... I dunno

Also, not all pianos have the middle foot pedal anymore.  My piano did, but my piano teacher's didn't.  I'm not sure if it's more recent pianos or older pianos that do or don't have them.
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Bastardous Bassist

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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #2 on: 29 Sep 2009, 07:45 »

Are you talking about when all of the strings on the lower half start to vibrate?  If so, you can probably replicate that sound just by striking the piano itself with the pedal depressed.
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KickThatBathProf

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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #3 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:32 »

Do you mean the striking of the key by your finger, or the striking of the string by the hammer?

The second one.  I guess it's kind of hard to explain without a demonstration, but after the string is hit there is sort of a ghostly echo.  It basically happens when you have that pedal depressed and you play any staccato note in that register
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pwhodges

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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #4 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:34 »

The middle pedal of a grand piano is called the sostenuto pedal.  Its function is not as you describe; the way it works is that it holds off the dampers of the notes that are down at the time it is depressed.  This enables you to hold a note while still pedalling normally to control others (it can be used for that in the central section of Debussy's La Cathédrale Engloutie, for instance, to make the chords less muddy while continuing to hold the big bass note representing the bell), or it can be used to hold the dampers off a number of notes which have been pressed silently so that subsequent playing leaves resonances of those notes only.  The second usage is quite common in contemporary piano music, of the sort my son (a concert pianist) tends to play. 

I have heard of the mechanism you describe as a rarity on upright pianos, though, but I've never seen it.

Either way, I can't think of any way you're going to be able to capture the sound of the resonance without the sound that excites it, though.  I suspect the best you could do would be to record the result of playing individual notes and chords and then to edit the later parts together as a separate exercise.
« Last Edit: 29 Sep 2009, 09:02 by pwhodges »
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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #5 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:39 »

You could get a noise suppressor with a slow gate.  Also, that sort of second usage is one of the reasons why it really sucked that we only had an electric piano in the room where I had my modern music theory class.  Really, any extended technique just made us sadder and sadder.
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KickThatBathProf

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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #6 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:40 »

I guess that means I need to learn what those things are, huh

Its function is not as you describe;

Wait what?  I guess I didn't describe it very well because that is exactly what I tried to describe (I have even played that piece using that pedal)
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pwhodges

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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #7 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:43 »

Also, that sort of second usage is one of the reasons why it really sucked that we only had an electric piano in the room where I had my modern music theory class.

My Kawai stage piano has a sostenuto pedal :-)  but of course it's still limited in not being able to half-pedal, for instance.
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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #8 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:44 »

Yeah, but would it excite vibrations in other strings?  And you definitely can't reach inside and pluck a string.
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pwhodges

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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #9 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:50 »

Actually, it does model sympathetic vibrations in general - but I'm not sure it goes as far as tuning them to match selective use of the sostenuto pedal.  Hmm - I must try it out!

Agreed though - no plucking, and no "prepared piano" techniques either. 

Nic once played a piece which required a whole lot of ping-pong balls to be scattered on the strings which then bounced around, and in loud bits flew out and bounced around some more on the floor.  It was part of a setting for soprano, two pianos and chamber orchestra of McGonagle's poem about the Tay Bridge disaster - 90 ping-pong balls represented the people who died...  The soprano was wearing a big hat at the start and produced the balls from it at a suitable moment (the crash).
« Last Edit: 29 Sep 2009, 08:55 by pwhodges »
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"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
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Re: An unimportant question!
« Reply #10 on: 29 Sep 2009, 08:53 »

...!  They have made the piano that I always thought I would be able to make and get millions because it did stuff no other pianos did.  There goes that idea.  Now all I've got is my Teletabbies idea.  You see, the cats have televisions in their stomachs.
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