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[De_El]

Having recently come together as a music forum and acknowledged that no one gives a shit about the NME, I thought it might be appropriate to commiserate on another such list.  The AV Club is in fact an entertainment news and commentary outlet I have a lot of respect for; the writing is usually pretty good if not better, and they talk about shit I care about. I'm especially fond of feature columns like The New Cult Canon, Gateways to Geekery, I Watched This On Purpose and of course, Savage Love.  And I must admit, I would have babies with Amelie Gilette based solely on her sense of humor and the sound of her voice. And I'm a ridiculous impulsive teenager who deals exclusively in gutbusting hyperbole and barely registerable understatement. Whatever.

But! The list. In case you haven't seen it, here you go: http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-best-music-of-the-decade,35540/
Now, that particular list is just called "best music of the decade", reckoned by albums, but there are separate lists for metal and electronic music, so what's on the list is largely the things you can see as outgrowths of things vaguely punky, alternativey, indie-ish, and awkwardly acknowledging the existence of top 40 pop. Hip hop is pretty earnestly and well represented, so that's nice.

I am pretty surprised by the top album. I mean, White Blood Cells has stood the test of time fairly well. The songs are still fun, memorable and honest.  But when I think "best albums of the decade," is that one that springs to mind for me? Not really.

So! Whatchall thinkin' on it?

[Ptommydski]

Some really good records on that list.

[De_El]

Damn right. I think M. Dovey'd (and myself of course) be quite pleased to see The Argument is on it.

[squawk]

Pretty nice list but WHY is Broken Social Scene last

Why

[michaelicious]

Being number 50 out of all the albums released over the past 10 years isn't last, silly.

[squawk]

But it's better than like fuckin' Animal Collective why are 2009 things so highhh

[Scandanavian War Machine]

I tried to look at the list but all i saw was an endless expanse of comments stretching infinitely towards the horizon in every conceivible direction and dimension.

i just gave up and went back to listening to music instead of trying (and failing) to read about it.

[sean]

decent list but i have huge problems with the fact that the white stripes on the top of it.

i mean they are not bad but they are not good either.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

you take that back

[Be My Head]

Why is it that I haven't seen a single greatest albums of the decade list with any music that I like on them? Is there something wrong with me?

I mean, I didn't see Enslaved's Progressive Black Metal masterpiece Below The Lights *anywhere*.

[scarred]

Yes

[Reed]

They explicitly wrote a separate "Best Metal of the Decade" list.

[SWOON! at My Gravitas]

And it has some very good stuff on it.  Though the inclusion ofOpeth's Watershed threw me for a loop.  Including Watershed on a list that does not also include Blackwater Park just seems...criminal.

[Be My Head]

If it has Mastodon on it then I won't like that list either. Not that they're bad, but they're not worthy of being the best in a metal category.

Edit: just looked at it. AWFUL. ughh, Baroness? Amon Amarth?

*shuidder* Baroness aren't bad either, but I put them in the same category as indie rock to be quite honest, not what I look for in great metal.

Boris don't play metal.

Neither do Converge.

Neither do Deftones.

The Dillinger Escape Plan is metalcore.

The Mars Volta? Seriously?

Queens of The Stone Age?


Maybe if the list had any metal on it at all I would like it more.

This really cemented the amount of fail for me "I love Gallhammer." - the author

Yes, because those KAWAII Japanese chicks who play Black Metal are soooo ironic and awesome, huh? their music is shitty? what?

[JD]

I suppose making a list dedicated to one genre will always make people frown. Perhaps people define Metal in different ways than you?

[Damnable Fiend]

The problem I have with lists of metal albums compiled by erm, hipsters, is that the people who are making the lists just don't seem to listen to very much metal.  It seems like every time, you're going to end up with a list of trendy stoner doom bands (not that there's anything wrong with stoner doom but it seems to be the only metal subgenre these people like), and a few random super obscure albums out of left field to make it seem like "no we really did do some research on this".

Also, I agree on Mastodon, I've tried to listen to them multiple times, and something about them just makes me zone out and almost fall asleep.  A few minutes later I'll snap out of it long enough to realize that the music is still as boring as it was before, and change the song to something more interesting (like say, High on Fire)

[Dimmukane]

Yeah, to be honest this was surprisingly lacking in good metal albums, even those that are typically deified by the hipster press.  I would've at least expected mention of Wolves in the Throne Room at some point, maybe Arcturus or something, but yeah, this was a lot more stoner-oriented than anything else.

[Be My Head]

Any list of good metal from this decade that doesn't include "La Sanie des siècles - Panégyrique de la dégénérescence" is a failure in my opinion.

[Damnable Fiend]

I'm always hesitant to put the label "greatest of so-and-so" on anything, but if it were me I'd have out these albums on there.

[JD]

The problem I have with lists of metal albums compiled by erm, hipsters, is that the people who are making the lists just don't seem to listen to very much metal.  It seems like every time, you're going to end up with a list of trendy stoner doom bands (not that there's anything wrong with stoner doom but it seems to be the only metal subgenre these people like), and a few random super obscure albums out of left field to make it seem like "no we really did do some research on this".

Man I can't even imagine high hipsters.

[Dimmukane]

dude, this new Girl Talk cd rips

where is the pbr dammit, i'm thirsty

moustache rides

etc

[KharBevNor]

The post above me is pretty on track.

Also:

*shuidder* Baroness aren't bad either, but I put them in the same category as indie rock to be quite honest, not what I look for in great metal.

Boris don't play metal.

Neither do Converge.

Neither do Deftones.

The Dillinger Escape Plan is metalcore.

The Mars Volta? Seriously?

Queens of The Stone Age?

True on all counts. That's not a value judgement, even though I only like two of these bands. There are many others I disagree with as well. For example, if you're going to put Opeth on a list like this, why the fuck Watershed? And Satan almighty, a Slayer album? This is the 21st century, and Slayer haven't put out anything that was more than mediocre since 1988 on the outside.

Let's try and be positive...at the start of the list I thought it was going to be ok. Dopethrone and The Work Which Transforms God would both make it on to my list. Codex Necro, Phantom Limb and Frozen Corpse Stuffed with Dope are all good albums but probably not my choices.

I feel a little wary making a list personally, because it's all about personal taste in these things, but if I did it would certainly back up some of Damnable Fiend's, as well as considering such tasty treats as:

Aborym - With No Human Intervention
Agalloch - The Mantle
Ancient Rites - And the Hordes Stood as One (if we're allowed live albums) or Dim Carcosa (if we're not)
The Axis of Perdition - Deleted Scenes From the Transition Hospital
Ayreon - The Human Equation
Carpathian Forest - Morbid Fascination of Death
Dan Swano - Moontower
Darkthrone - The Cult is Alive (controversial, I would imagine)
Diabolical Masquerade - Death's Design
Drudkh - The Swan Road
Edge of Sanity - Crimson II
Ewigkeit - Radio Ixtlan
Forefather - Ours is the Kingdom
Horna - Sotahuuto
Lumsk - Åsmund Frægdegjevar
Sigh - Imaginary Sonicscape
Wyrd - Huldrafolk

I'm noting fairly definite tendencies genre wise. For a list like this to be good it really needs to be compiled from the lists of a few seperate people who have some idea what they're talking about.

Also, final note, I personally think Gallhammer are alright! Not sure why everyone calls them a black metal band though. The makeup maybe?

[Damnable Fiend]

Man I can't even imagine high hipsters.

I can't either, really, now I think of it.  A hipster is basically an obsessively self-conscious person, right.  They like music that makes them look good.  That's why there's that joke about hipsters not actually liking music at all.  ie. pretty much the opposite of the stoner who stereotypically just likes whatever feels good.

where was I. oh yeah, maybe they're not actually listening to any of these albums on drugs, I don't know.  Maybe someday I'll visit the pitchfork offices or some other hipster group (do Pitchfork even count as hipster anymore, or are they too well known for that) that likes stoner music, and find out what's behind this trend.

edit: oh speaking of Dan Swano, I'd put a Nightingale album on there as well, probably Alive Again.

[Be My Head]

Eh, Gallhammer aren't that awful I guess. I do like that play some simple beats; whereas you usually hear too much blasting in generic black metal. I just don't think they should be as well known as they are. They sound kind of mediocre, and I think it's because they can't really play their instruments, and not in a good way either.

Also, Diabolical Masquerade is pretty cool. I don't know if I like Death's Design more or less than Nightwork though, but DD is definitely more creative.

[KharBevNor]

I would have put Nightwork on there if it had only been written a year or two later :p

Gallhammer are a crossover crust band essentially. Crust is generally a genre (with a few noble exceptions) where I find overall presentation and general attitude to be more important than technical competency, although Gallhammer do drop some real clangers. There also not a band I would mention for a while even if I was specifically talking about black metal from Japan (Hint: Sigh! Abigail!)

[Be My Head]

Crust you say? Well if I think of them that way they don't seem as bad. Still, their music isn't really that interesting. Maybe I need to spend more time with http://7inchcrust.blogspot.com/

[KharBevNor]

Shit this is a tasty blog

[KvP]

Hey what's that you say the Best Electronica list didn't include Geogaddi oh well blah blah blah black metal blah Boris for hoodie blah not kvlt blah blah. The metal list was made by AV Club's sole metal dude and I think Leonard Pierce would be the first to say that it's mostly just a weak stopgap measure to ensure that metal of any kind would have a presence in the best-of-decade rollout. Save your unequal representation arguments for a more dedicated site.

I'll give them this - They didn't include any bloghaus records on their full best-of. That's admirable. Truth be told I would've preferred a method of selection akin to previous years. This decade stuff is all rather slapdahs.

[Inlander]

What the hell is a bloghaus?!

[KharBevNor]

Bloghaus is when you cover bauhaus songs but change all the lyrics to facebook status quotes.

Or, this.

[scarred]

God, hipster runoff is annoying.

[KharBevNor]

Don't let Emilio hear you say that. He loves that shit so much he probably writes it.

I don't really get it, but I guess I don't have a very deep knowledge of what it's satirising.

[Johnny C]

I am Carles.

[a pack of wolves]

The Dillinger Escape Plan is metalcore.

I feel a little petty bringing this up, but I feel it's relevant since we're talking genre classification here: DEP do not play metalcore. Not even close. You would have something of an argument if the album they'd picked had been Calculating Infinity (not sure I'd buy it then either though), but it's Ire Works. Not that it's necessarily metal either, the best genre for it would probably be that much-maligned term alt rock. The reason I mention this is because it's often hard to say what genre something falls into, and because of this people often only get irritated by it when it's either incredibly off the mark (The Mars Volta and Queens Of The Stone Age being the truly 'er, no' examples on this list) or something they dislike and therefore want to see excised. For example:

Codex Necro, Phantom Limb and Frozen Corpse Stuffed with Dope are all good albums but probably not my choices.

Significantly, the thing he doesn't mention is that of the three only Codex Necro is a metal album. I understand why, it isn't galling to have some include Frozen Corpse... in a metal list because it's totally banging and similarly I wouldn't bitch about someone slipping Codex Necro into a punk list, but there's a lot more reason to leave AN and PD out than there is to exclude Boris.

And there's a good reason to leave in bands that aren't strictly metal. Because it's become acceptable to talk about metal and something like the AV Club will allow a best of metal list it allows a writer who cares about the harsher side of rock music to promote albums that would definitely be left off the main list but can be slid into a metal one. They'll know there's no chance of a punk or general heavy guitar music list, so it's hard to blame them for wanting to promote this stuff, and these days calling it metal actually makes it more respectable.

[Inlander]

Or, this.

I don't know what the fuck that was but I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

[Daft pun]

God, hipster runoff is awesome.

\o/

Seriously though, what "bloghaus" album could've been on the electronic list? It's all about the singles and the remixes. Lots and lots of remixes.

[David_Dovey]

Damn right. I think M. Dovey'd (and myself of course) be quite pleased to see The Argument is on it.

Yer bet yer sweet bippy I am

Obviously some of what I personally would call "odd choices" on the list, and overall I'm surprised at the amount of "mainstream" -however you care to define that- stuff on there. Overall the only things that really disappointed me where that I felt a lot of bands were represented by the wrong albums in the list.

Also, Sound of Silver! hooray!

EDIT:

My $0.02 on the Metal list is that it's not as bad as some folks made it out to be but seriously how are The Mars Volta even remotely metal, that's dumb. I'm pretty liberal with what I consider metal and I'm more than willing to include stuff like sludge and grindcore in that, but TMV have literally nothing to do with metal at all.

It's not like they couldn't have just called the list something else and done away with the contentious aspect of it anyway. "Best Heavy Music of the Decade", perhaps. Of course, even then I don't think you could include TMV. They're not heavy, they're just weird. A lot of people who also like metal listen to them, because there is shredding guitar and insane drumming and whacky cod-mysticism.

Anyway, I feel that both this list and the big Best Music list suffer from being weighted too strongly towards the latter half of the decade.

Ayreon - The Human Equation

I would never in a million years have guessed that you like this album, Khar.

EDIT EDIT: Actually do you know what I think the thing that is really making me indignant about this list is- coming back to a relatively minor point I made up there- almost purely based in their nomenclature.

Essentially I think the A.V. Club have gone and made a big, ballsy mistake by labelling these lists "The Best _______ of the Decade". It's slightly less heinous in the big list, which at least has the benefit of multiple points of view and some claim to a committee process in the list's planning, but having one dude who happens to write a column about metal name his favourite records from the last ten years (some of which are definitively not metal, even by my lax standards) and then tagging it "Best Metal" strikes me as asking for trouble.

[Thrillho]

Am I the only one who's never heard of like half these fucking albums? Or am I asking on the wrong forum?

[Kyros]

I can dig this list.  Finally some Top 50 love for The Body, The Blood, The Machine!

[E. Spaceman]

Am I the only one who's never heard of like half these fucking albums? Or am I asking on the wrong forum?

You are asking the wrong forums. None of the albums on the list are remotely obscure.


As khar has mentioned, complaining about these sorts of lists is a bit absurd since this all comes down to personal opinion. There are some great records on that list but also a lot of stuff i don't care for. From the list, the albums i'd consider keeping for my own top 50 would be


Broken Social Scene, You Forgot It In People
Mclusky, Do Dallas
Fugazi, The Argument
Ghostface Killah, Supreme Clientele
New Pornographers, Mass Romantic
 LCD Soundsystem, Sound Of Silver
Arcade Fire, Funeral
 Wilco, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
 OutKast, Stankonia
 Radiohead, Kid A
Dirty Projectors, Bitte Orca

[KharBevNor]

Significantly, the thing he doesn't mention is that of the three only Codex Necro is a metal album. I understand why, it isn't galling to have some include Frozen Corpse... in a metal list because it's totally banging and similarly I wouldn't bitch about someone slipping Codex Necro into a punk list, but there's a lot more reason to leave AN and PD out than there is to exclude Boris.

Yeah I was kind of leaving it unspoken that I wouildn't really put grindcore on a metal list. Though in my opinion, grind (and to a lesser extent crust) are very crossovery. There are albums from both genres that I would certainly call metal; aesthetics and attitudes come into the equation for me. I wouldn't put them on such a list though, because they're a bit of a sideshow, if you see what I mean. Similiarly the other way round, there are certain black metal albums especially that are punk as fuck, but I wouldn't put them on any punk lists.

@Dovey: Why wouldn't you have thought I would like that album? I guess I don't bang on about my love of prog much, because it's kind of embarrasing, but hey.

[evilbobthebob]

I think the metal list is really just a 'heavy guitar playing bands' list...admittedly some of the bands aren't even that heavy, but then compare them to the main list...

Not that I profess to know anything at all about metal.

[Thrillho]

Okay, having read all the way through instead of the first couple of pages, putting aside fact that a number of the people on this list I've only heard of on this forum and barely anywhere else, are you seriously telling me that Devin The Dude, Dirty Projectors, The Coup, Grizzly Bear, Clinic, Clipse and Madvillain are all well-known artists?

[E. Spaceman]

Uh, pretty much all of them yeah.

I mean, i think Devin The Dude, The Coup and Dirty Projectors and Clinic have not had much chart success compared to the others listed who I am pretty sure all have had top 40 albums but they are all pretty well known.

[Thrillho]

Top 40 albums where?

Is the AV Club an American publication? Because a lot of American groups tend to totally drop off the radar elsewhere and vice versa.

[E. Spaceman]

The AV Club is part of The Onion (linked at the top of the page)

[KickThatBathProf]

Top 40 albums where?

#8 in the US
#24 in the UK

[De_El]

Not only are those artists somewhat well known, Grizzly Bear and Dirty Projectors have kind of blown the fuck up this past year, year and a half.  There's been a bunch of a hype about their respective latest albums. 

[Thrillho]

Hmmmm. I need to have a bit of a root around, I feel.

[David_Dovey]

@Dovey: Why wouldn't you have thought I would like that album? I guess I don't bang on about my love of prog much, because it's kind of embarrasing, but hey.

Well yeah this I guess. I had no idea you dug on prog.

Hell, even for a prog fan The Human Equation is pretty cheesy. Excellent, and definitely featuring some of the best vocal performances some of the respective vocalists have given, but definitely no shortage on the cheese.