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Author Topic: [Piano] What's this called?  (Read 13538 times)

Eddie 88

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[Piano] What's this called?
« on: 18 Feb 2010, 03:56 »

I'm a novice pianist; I can construct and play all the major scales forward and backward, I've mastered the first five Hanon exercises, I can play a few pieces (mostly blues, jazz, and...heh, Final Fantasy themes) and I can transcribe music pretty well from an MP3.

Anyway, I was just messing around on the piano and noticed something. If you construct a triad consisting of any key, then the next note four semitones above it, then the next note three semitones above that, the chord will sound good. Try it! Just start at C and play a triad where the next note is four semitone above, and the top note is three semitones above that. This obviously gives you the C major chord, but keep going; C# F G#, D F# A, D# G A#, E G# B, etc.

You hit a lot of major chords and inversions as you keep going on like this. Anyway, I'm sure this is a recognized phenomenon, but is there a name for it or something? And if anyone knows much about music theory -- WHY does a note, the next four semitones above and the next three semitones above that sound good together?
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #1 on: 18 Feb 2010, 04:11 »

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You're just playing a major triad in any key. If you take any note and add a major third and a fifth, you're going to get a major chord.
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #2 on: 18 Feb 2010, 06:30 »

yeah dude you are just playing major triads. considering you know how say you know major scales you should know what a goddamn chord is.

try turning yr brain on before you make a thread?
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Eddie 88

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #3 on: 18 Feb 2010, 07:26 »

Wait, a key plus another key four semitones higher and a third three semitones higher than that is the definition of a chord? My teacher never taught me that. I was taught how to do chords visually.

But the major chords and inversions don't cover all the possible chords you can make with the root + 4 + 3 method. So, any time you play a root + 4 + 3 it's just called a chord? And when your root so happens to be the first note in a key signiture, that's what makes it a major chord (or minor chord, but I haven't gotten to minor chords yet)?
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #4 on: 18 Feb 2010, 08:21 »

I was taught how to do chords visually.

uh, what does that even mean?

Quote
But the major chords and inversions don't cover all the possible chords you can make with the root + 4 + 3 method. So, any time you play a root + 4 + 3 it's just called a chord? And when your root so happens to be the first note in a key signiture, that's what makes it a major chord (or minor chord, but I haven't gotten to minor chords yet)?


oh dear lord yr mind is a complete fucking mess. okay im gonna give you a quick music theory crash course.

and fuck i just deleted the big long response i wrote. gimmie a few minutes to recollect my thoughts and then ill type it out again.

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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #5 on: 18 Feb 2010, 08:39 »

okay thinking about it you are trying to apply the silly things yr piano teaches is telling you to actual music theory and it's completely fucking with what is actual music theory.

i will tell you a few basic things. first off, all a chord is a grouping of 3 notes. you are allowed to have more notes in a chord (note: 7th chords for example!) anyway, "root + 4 + 3", as you describe it, is the fucking definition of a major triad. a major chord is based off a major third (which is 4 semitones) and a minor third (which is 3 semitones). to make a minor triad, you use the opposite, a minor third and then a major third. you have two other types of triads, augmented triads (two major triads) and diminished triads (two minor thirds). diminished triads are the only other type you should worry about, since augmented triads don't really appear in standard tonal music (they don't naturally occur in major or minor scales) whereas diminished triads do (the triad on the leading tone (7th scale degree) in both major and minor is diminished and the super-tonic (2nd) triad in harmonic minor is also diminished, but it's minor in melodic minor (because of the raised 6th scale degree in harmonic minor).

you should probably take a theory course.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #6 on: 19 Feb 2010, 02:28 »

C# F G#, D F# A, D# G A#, E G# B, etc.


Hah, yeah, dude, you literally wrote out C# maj, D maj, D# maj, and E maj chords right there. 
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #7 on: 19 Feb 2010, 07:31 »

hey, I learned something new from this thread, so it wasn't wasted!
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #8 on: 19 Feb 2010, 09:20 »

no but i think reading eddie 88's post damaged my brain to the point where i've lost about a year off my lifespan.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #9 on: 19 Feb 2010, 10:32 »

Sean go sit in the corner and don't come out until you're done being a prick. So the guy doesn't know what he's talking about! He asked a question about it and he got an answer and he was enlightened.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #10 on: 19 Feb 2010, 11:35 »

ah now yr calling me out in public!

isn't it fun?
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #11 on: 19 Feb 2010, 11:37 »

to be fair though that comment was a bit harsh and his teacher is probably a bonehead too so thats why this theory knowledge is completely backwards.

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #12 on: 20 Feb 2010, 07:45 »

ah now yr calling me out in public!

isn't it fun?

'Yr'? What the fuck? How old are you? Or is this some ironic trait I don't get?

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #13 on: 20 Feb 2010, 08:27 »

I always assumed people here did it as a homage to Sonic Youth's Expressway to Yr. Skull.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #14 on: 20 Feb 2010, 08:43 »

It's also been around in common usage since the 18th century so potentially very old indeed.

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #15 on: 20 Feb 2010, 10:38 »

its a punx thing dude dont worry about it.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #16 on: 20 Feb 2010, 20:33 »

'Yr'? What the fuck? How old are you? Or is this some ironic trait I don't get?

Are you really this anal?
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #17 on: 20 Feb 2010, 22:31 »

this is really the best thread we've had in the music forum for a while.

somebody asks a question, somebody responds like an asshole, patrick gets pissed, and dk gets pissed for even stupider reasons, and iisac graced us with his presence.
seriously you just dont see these kind of quality thread often enough.
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Patrick

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #18 on: 20 Feb 2010, 23:47 »

And Sean continues to post over and over again, contributing nothing after having made one single substantial post, until the thread gets derailed into "MAN ISN'T THIS THREAD GREAT" horsefuckery.

I could learn some valuable stuff if this progresses into a Tell Us What You Know About Theory thread. It'd be great to actually learn that shit from somebody's explanation instead of some site that I can't really understand. I have exceptional knowledge of theory in a practical sense, but I don't know anything about it in a scholarly sense.
« Last Edit: 20 Feb 2010, 23:49 by Patrick »
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #19 on: 21 Feb 2010, 00:13 »

You should know better than that by now. This is the goddamn music forum.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #20 on: 21 Feb 2010, 00:22 »

Awesome boarding bros
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #21 on: 21 Feb 2010, 00:25 »

Awesome boarding John
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #22 on: 21 Feb 2010, 03:42 »

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #23 on: 21 Feb 2010, 04:04 »

Man, that bat again. Look dude, I know we all want to be as well-proportioned as that little critter. Just... just let that dream go, man. I have.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #24 on: 21 Feb 2010, 04:10 »

I'm just a little embarrassed about my wing/cock ratio.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #25 on: 21 Feb 2010, 04:24 »

'Yr'? What the fuck? How old are you? Or is this some ironic trait I don't get?

Are you really this anal?

I'm sorry, I forgot the question, I was distracted by the word 'anal.'

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #26 on: 21 Feb 2010, 04:55 »

You should know better than that by now. This is the goddamn music forum.

we've already had the pointless argument out of nowhere, now someone talk about pavement for 5 pages and it's a wrap

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #27 on: 21 Feb 2010, 06:11 »

I live in the inner city so not a day goes by when I don't see some kind of residual puke stain on the footpath.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #28 on: 21 Feb 2010, 06:20 »

Yeah I usually see two or three on my way anywhere becuase I live in a town where 1/3 of the population is students.

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #29 on: 21 Feb 2010, 06:23 »

I live in the inner city so not a day goes by when I don't see some kind of residual puke stain on the footpath.

Sorry.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #30 on: 21 Feb 2010, 06:31 »

Sometimes I walk through my neighbourhood and I think to myself:

"Every surface here has been urinated on at some point in the past."
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #31 on: 21 Feb 2010, 11:56 »

Hey, at least it's not as bad as the QC Discussion forum!

(Can we please end on this note?)
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #32 on: 21 Feb 2010, 12:35 »

this thread is fuckin' art!
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #33 on: 21 Feb 2010, 15:46 »

(Can we please end on this note?)

What is this note?
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Patrick

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #34 on: 21 Feb 2010, 20:36 »

The concrete surfaces here in town are far too rough for my tastes. My right knee and elbow are totally testifying with me on that.

The roads however are partially made with recycled rubber. Makes for some smooth motherfuckin' rides and some quick motherfuckin' speeds. Again, right knee and elbow.
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #35 on: 21 Feb 2010, 21:56 »

hey guys though if you have any other theory questions i will answer them for you if i know the answer.

cause thats what you do in normal threads right?
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #36 on: 21 Feb 2010, 22:09 »

It depends what you mean by "normal threads". If you mean normal threads in normal forums then yeah, if you mean normal threads in this forum then what's happened in this thread already is pretty much the standard template.

Hey sean what do they mean when they talk about "inversions" of a chord. That's a thing, right. Inversions?
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #37 on: 21 Feb 2010, 22:25 »

hey dovey when somebody talks about the inversion of the chord they are talking about how the chord is voiced! basically, it has to do with what note is acting as the bass of the chord. for example, ill use a c major chord. you have a c, an e, and a g. that is a basic c major chord in "root position (because the root of the chord is in the bass). we use the number 5/3 (usually they are written vertically with no line) to describe that. that is known as figured bass. now, there are two other voicing this chord can have. the first option is first inversion, which is called a 6/3 chord. in this chord the 3rd is in the bass, therefore spelling the chord e, g, c. its called 6/3 because of the intervals between the chord members from the bass. you start counting from the top. an e is a sixth from the bass, and a g is a 3rd from the bass. (with root position, g is a 5th from c, e is a third from c). then the 2nd type of inversion you can have is 2nd inversion, or a 6/4 chord. now yr g is in the bass and it is voiced g c e. e is a sixth from g, and c is a fourth from g.
7th chords can be inverted too! yr root position works exactly the same. in first inversion, e would once again be in the bass and it would be voiced e g b c. the figured bass for this chord is 6 5 3, which is usually just shortened to 6 5. now the interesting thing with 7th chords is that you have a 3rd inversion, which puts b in the bass, voicing yr chord b c e g. the figured bass for this is 6 4 2, which becomes 4 2.
now there are a few more things to note, which just apply to tonal music (bach and kids, up to the 19th century.) you will never find a 6 4 chord in bach, just cause they didn't do that stuff back then. the only place you will find it is in a cadence, and its always controlled by a dominant (V) harmony and the chord goes to root position before ending on I. Also, you will never find a diminished chord in anything but first inversion. That's just how it evolved. Of course, in the 19th century all these rules start to get bent as composers stated doing wackier and wackier stuff until you get till today, where you can basically use this knowledge any fuckin way you want.

(note: on the topic of inversions, those are all of the things i know. i can expand upon anything here though if yr still confused.)
« Last Edit: 21 Feb 2010, 22:27 by sean »
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #38 on: 21 Feb 2010, 23:36 »

Hey Sean, is there a name for a grouping of two notes if they're not considered chords?
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #39 on: 21 Feb 2010, 23:56 »

An interval? (I am not sean and this is pretty much a guess, grain of salt recommended)
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #40 on: 22 Feb 2010, 01:35 »

An interval is just the distance between two notes. If you're playing two notes in harmony on a stringed instrument it's called a double stop.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #41 on: 22 Feb 2010, 05:24 »

Dickey Betts sucks at them though so he just overdubs those shits

Edit: I should also point out that the reason it's not a chord is 'cause it can't go major, minor, or otherwise if it's just two notes. However, if you play a sequence of double stops, it's relatively easy to discern what the intended root note is. I do this all the time on guitar and it sounds really badass. See: "Satan Is My Motor" - Cake
« Last Edit: 22 Feb 2010, 05:28 by Patrick »
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #42 on: 22 Feb 2010, 06:13 »

An interval is just the distance between two notes. If you're playing two notes in harmony on a stringed instrument it's called a double stop.
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Patrick

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #43 on: 22 Feb 2010, 15:04 »

Hey cool you found the 'quote' button
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #44 on: 22 Feb 2010, 15:21 »

i was giving my approval for iisac's answer.

stop being a whiny bitch patrick you are being quite a whiny bitch right now.
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sean

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #45 on: 22 Feb 2010, 15:27 »

dude don't worry im just making up all this shit as i go along.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #46 on: 22 Feb 2010, 16:15 »

I was improvising on the piano the other day and I accidentally played a depleted U chord with a recessive third quarter. I was playing in the key of Q Maximum.
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #47 on: 22 Feb 2010, 16:18 »

You maniac!
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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #48 on: 23 Feb 2010, 02:48 »

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Re: [Piano] What's this called?
« Reply #49 on: 23 Feb 2010, 06:51 »

dude don't worry im just making up all this shit as i go along.

As in, a chord of two notes is not a double stop; a double stop is a technique for playing a chord of two notes.
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"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )
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