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The Humping Turtle

1 (2.6%)

Tai spills the Beans

0 (0%)

Marten's Sense of Humor Getting the Best of Him

4 (10.3%)

The Ice Pack

0 (0%)

Dora consoling Marigold (D'awwww)

5 (12.8%)

Internet Drama and Goatse

1 (2.6%)

Marigold's Amazing Rack

12 (30.8%)

Faye and Angus in "Time Out"

7 (17.9%)

I... I am OK!

9 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 34

[tinkerbell]

People should start punching Faye back, methinks...

Methinks that if any of the guys did that then the forum would explode with debate about violence against women. I do not think Jeph really wants the cast to be beating on each other that much.

[smilesvssmirks]

Leaving a bruise and requiring an ice pack IS injuring. It's not about the person being "a little sensitive" to pain. That makes it sound like it's the punchee's fault for being hurt and they should "just be tougher". Coming from someone who bruises all. the. damn. time. from even the littlest stuff: bruises suck. They are tender and sore and can take forever to go away. Just because Faye's group of friends seem to not have that much of a problem with her violence doesn't mean that her behavior is okay. These people aren't doing anything that truly justifies the non-playful violence she's inflicting upon them. If a guy takes sexual advantage of a falling down drunk barely cognitive girl, and all his friends don't have a problem with it, does that make what he's done okay? No, it does not. Faye is a bitch 98% of the time to 99% of all people but any time someone throws it back at her she gets intensely defensive, acts wounded, and lashes out violently. If I was Faye's friend, it would certainly piss me off. She'd hit me too hard just once for sassing her back and she'd get a fist in her jaw. And I'm not even a violent person, really.

[Nightson]

Just because Faye's group of friends seem to not have that much of a problem with her violence doesn't mean that her behavior is okay.

Yes it does. 

If a guy takes sexual advantage of a falling down drunk barely cognitive girl, and all his friends don't have a problem with it, does that make what he's done okay? No, it does not.

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.

[Kugai]

Well, at least Hanners is there - she knows from personal experience the methods of Hard Rebooting a person.   


So, does this mean Malaysian Battle Spatulas at 10 paces?

[Prince of Space]

People should start punching Faye back, methinks...

Methinks that if any of the guys did that then the forum would explode with debate about violence against women. I do not think Jeph really wants the cast to be beating on each other that much.

Unfortunately, that's the double standard we live with today.  Girls can give a hard hit and not receive one back without serious accusations that should've been thrown at HER first.  I'd like to see Jeph challenge that though (I am a lady by the way).

On a less serious note, I have friends who rough house (to the point of bruises) constantly.  They enjoy it.  If Faye is really doing this out of play, Angus should start 'playing' back. 

[JackFaerie]

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.

Um. So if the drunk girl has low self-esteem or other issues, and when she wakes up decides that "she probably deserved it"or it wasn't such a big deal (and maybe it's happened before), that makes it ok? NO, because the act is despicable regardless of the victim's tolerance for it.

In many parts of the world, groups of guys DO consider it "ok" to take advantage of women, and women are encouraged to just buck up and accept it too. Still doesn't make it ok.

In other parts of the world, it isn't considered out of the ordinary for a man to beat his wife, and if she gets hit, the wife doesn't consider leaving her husband because "it's not really a big deal," "he only hits me, it's not like he breaks bones or does real damage" and "it's just something all women have to deal with." Still doesn't make it ok.

For a less emotionally abrasive example, take drinking--something else Faye has a problem with, and which she's been called on (although not without prompting from someone outside her Dora-Marten inner circle).  Imagine a group of friends where one of them drinks to the point of blacking out on a regular basis, acts dangerously when drunk, etc. Even if no one calls the drinker on the problem, and greet each blackout as "Oh well, haha, there goes Tom again!" "Oh, we keep that puke bucket specifically for Tommergencies"--that doesn't make Tom's behavior not a problem somehow. Outside observers are still entitled to look at the situation and go "uh, that's not good, and not ok."

I don't care that Dora, Marten and Angus for some reason have decided that "it's just Faye!" and they're willing to accept that behavior--it is unacceptable and they're enablers. She hits people to blow off steam or for fun or when she's irritated, and she leaves painful bruises. Not just "accidentally" or sometimes, but pretty much every time. She's punched Hannelore and bruised her! She thinks it is ok to hurt people for her entertainment or as a way of expressing displeasure. That is NOT an acceptable mindset, and I don't care what her friends think of it.

[Sorflakne]

Panel 4:  Aaaaand Mari's heart is torn apart by a bladestorming warrior (WoW joke...you won't get it if you don't play).

People should start punching Faye back, methinks...

Methinks that if any of the guys did that then the forum would explode with debate about violence against women. I do not think Jeph really wants the cast to be beating on each other that much.

I would never hit a woman, but if she came at me swinging for real and not playing around, I'll do what's necessary for self-defense, even if it means clocking her in the jaw.

[Prince of Space]

I would never hit a woman, but if she came at me swinging for real and not playing around, I'll do what's necessary for self-defense, even if it means clocking her in the jaw.

As you should.  Women who hit and know they won't get hit back are cowards anyway.  Faye needs someone to clean her clock.  Please Jeph?  Pretty please?

[TAG]

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.

Um. So if the drunk girl has low self-esteem or other issues, and when she wakes up decides that "she probably deserved it"or it wasn't such a big deal (and maybe it's happened before), that makes it ok? NO, because the act is despicable regardless of the victim's tolerance for it.

Its a flawed comparison because alcohol impairs one's judgment.  She can't be ok or not ok with it, which defaults to no consent.  Acceptance after the fact is not the same as consent either.

The guys are ok with it as and right after they are being hit, sober or no.  Why judge for them in that case?

[Tuitsuro]

It's more socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, than for a man to hit a woman.  Neither should be acceptable, but I was punched by plenty of girls in school; you couldn't really complain about it, and god help you if you hit back.  But, I think if either Marten or Angus were to say to Faye, 'Don't hit me anymore', she'd probably get the message and back off.  Or she might've gotten the message once Angus comes back with an ice-pak covering a huge welt on his arm...

[Prince of Space]

But, I think if either Marten or Angus were to say to Faye, 'Don't hit me anymore', she'd probably get the message and back off.

THIS.  Marten should've done that a long time ago.  Hopefully Angus will call her out on it. 

[Nightson]

The friends don't matter in this situation because they aren't the ones being acted on, the drunk girl is and how she feels about it is what matters.

Um. So if the drunk girl has low self-esteem or other issues, and when she wakes up decides that "she probably deserved it"or it wasn't such a big deal (and maybe it's happened before), that makes it ok? NO, because the act is despicable regardless of the victim's tolerance for it.

In many parts of the world, groups of guys DO consider it "ok" to take advantage of women, and women are encouraged to just buck up and accept it too. Still doesn't make it ok.

In other parts of the world, it isn't considered out of the ordinary for a man to beat his wife, and if she gets hit, the wife doesn't consider leaving her husband because "it's not really a big deal," "he only hits me, it's not like he breaks bones or does real damage" and "it's just something all women have to deal with." Still doesn't make it ok.

For a less emotionally abrasive example, take drinking--something else Faye has a problem with, and which she's been called on (although not without prompting from someone outside her Dora-Marten inner circle).  Imagine a group of friends where one of them drinks to the point of blacking out on a regular basis, acts dangerously when drunk, etc. Even if no one calls the drinker on the problem, and greet each blackout as "Oh well, haha, there goes Tom again!" "Oh, we keep that puke bucket specifically for Tommergencies"--that doesn't make Tom's behavior not a problem somehow. Outside observers are still entitled to look at the situation and go "uh, that's not good, and not ok."

I don't care that Dora, Marten and Angus for some reason have decided that "it's just Faye!" and they're willing to accept that behavior--it is unacceptable and they're enablers. She hits people to blow off steam or for fun or when she's irritated, and she leaves painful bruises. Not just "accidentally" or sometimes, but pretty much every time. She's punched Hannelore and bruised her! She thinks it is ok to hurt people for her entertainment or as a way of expressing displeasure. That is NOT an acceptable mindset, and I don't care what her friends think of it.

In any act performed on someone, the opinion of the person being acted on is what matters.  If someone gets hit, and is fine with it then there's nothing wrong with that.  If someone gets hit, is not fine with it but says they're fine with it, well then that's not okay.  

Lack of protest cannot be taken for consent in many, many cases, but it hitting someone in the arm it's a good indicator.

[jwhouk]

There is only one way to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.

[LeeC]

There is only one way to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.

im for this, not because of faye, but because of how bad Tai would feel about blurting that out (granted she probably never knew the situation with merigold) and it would make for an interesting turn of events.

[Tuitsuro]

There is only one way to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.

Here's to hoping Marigold never played the School Days visual novel.  

[ross_teneyck]

Re: Marigold... QC characters tend to be self-reflective enough that she will probably acknowledge (perhaps after an initial outburst) that she cannot legitimately consider this a betrayal on Angus' part.

But it's going to feel like a betrayal, and that's going to hurt.  And she'll probably conclude (wrongly) that all his talk about "You're great!" was just a lie, and she sucks and is awful because if she really was great he'd be going out with her instead of Faye.  Which isn't really logical, but feelings often aren't.  This has the potential to do a real number on her self-esteem, which is sad because she was only just starting to get some.

Dale, I think, is likely to be a good person for her to relate to -- whether or not that ever progresses to "relationship" -- simply because what they have in common -- WoW -- is something she cares about enough that it takes her out of herself.  When she's interacting with Dale, even if it's just calling him "Alliance Scum," she's not self-conscious -- she's not thinking about herself at all, she's thinking about WoW.  And that is a good start to relating to someone as an actual other person and not just in terms of how they affect you.

[TAG]

There is only one dway to stop all this.

Marigold snaps, goes into the kitchen and hauls off and knocks Faye into the middle of next week.

If Marigold strikes Faye, she would (at least realistically) get excommunicated from the group for the exact reasons people are criticizing Faye.
Not that there would be anything wrong with that ;P

Despite the earlier comments, there is a distinction between playfully smacking someone for being a smartass and attacking someone with real anger / jealousy.

Not that I expect it either way, you would think the Twitter feed wouldn't have ended quite so lightheartedly if that happened.

[Moxie]

Except that Faye's punches do bruise the person she's punching, even if the person was only being a smartass. Sure, perhaps she doesn't punch out of real anger/jealousy, but she does leave a mark identical to the punches that are punched with that intent.

[TAG]

Except that Faye's punches do bruise the person she's punching, even if the person was only being a smartass. Sure, perhaps she doesn't punch out of real anger/jealousy, but she does leave a mark identical to the punches that are punched with that intent.

So.  What.

You're focusing on the bruise and not the consent.  None of her "victims" seem to to see it as more than playful.  They aren't drugged or drunk or being taken advantage of.  So who are you to condemn consensual adults?

I can understand if play punches aren't part of your clique how it would seem weird, but there are plenty of social circles where it's just as acceptable as being a smart ass or play insulting friends.  Those would probably seem weird to outsiders too.

Edit: I mean, I wouldn't like it, but then I probably wouldn't be friends with Faye   But I wouldn't condemn those that choose to hang out with her either, warts and all.

[St.Clair]

Ohhhhh, crap.

[Moxie]

Except that Faye's punches do bruise the person she's punching, even if the person was only being a smartass. Sure, perhaps she doesn't punch out of real anger/jealousy, but she does leave a mark identical to the punches that are punched with that intent.

So.  What.

You're focusing on the bruise and not the consent.  None of her "victims" seem to to see it as more than playful.  They aren't drugged or drunk or being taken advantage of.  So who are you to condemn consensual adults?

I can understand if play punches aren't part of your clique how it would seem weird, but there are plenty of social circles where it's just as acceptable as being a smart ass or play insulting friends.  Those would probably seem weird to outsiders too.

I wasn't trying to condemn then, and I certainly don't think I mentioned anything about being drugged/drunk/taken advantage of. I agree that no one seems to take too much offense at Faye's actions. But I disagree that the bruising/harm from Faye's punching doesn't deserve as much consideration as the consent to playful punchings. To phrase a bit differently: does the consent for play punching still count when the person actually becomes injured from the playing punching? I was just trying to point out that Faye's punches don't seem very playful, at least in my view. I understand that people play punch all the time, and sure the intensity behind the punch varies, but Faye punches (even if playing) with the intent to harm (which is why it doesn't seem playful, at least to me).

Also, given that Marten was Faye's target for a lot of the early punchings, at least, and not only did he have low self-esteem at that point in time, he also really liked Faye a lot, and seemed willing to put up with a lot of whatever from her because of that. So was he really consenting because he didn't care, or was he consenting because he didn't feel comfortable speaking against it/was afraid he'd lose Faye if he did?

Faye is really a physically violent person, whether or not her reaction seems fitting for the situation (though she will apologize if she reacts instinctually). Sure, her circle of friends doesn't seem to mind, and even tease her about it, and of course every group has its own dynamics. I think Faye just takes it too far, and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually she really did seriously injure someone because she feels the person "deserves" her physical anger wrath.

Incidentally, I think Angus maybe got too physically close to Faye, since she reacts most often with violence when that happens.

[TAG]

*clipped*

I wasn't trying to condemn then, and I certainly don't think I mentioned anything about being drugged/drunk/taken advantage of.

Sorry, that was sort of responding to Jack.

To phrase a bit differently: does the consent for play punching still count when the person actually becomes injured from the playing punching?

Why wouldn't it?  It's not an isolated incident, they not only shrug it off but continue to freely associate with Faye without telling her off for it.

but Faye punches (even if playing) with the intent to harm (which is why it doesn't seem playful, at least to me).

Fair enough, but she never punches anyone who objects to that.  You may as well condemn all roughhousing and sports.  Faye is nothing but consistent with this and yet its not considered serious by Martin, Angus, or even Pintsize.  As far as I can remember, Faye has never intentionally hurt, even with an accidentally strong play punch, someone who did not already expect this sort of behavior; Dora has never been punched hard despite multiple cases of tickling and molesting Faye, for instance.

Also, given that Marten was Faye's target for a lot of the early punchings, at least, and not only did he have low self-esteem at that point in time, he also really liked Faye a lot, and seemed willing to put up with a lot of whatever from her because of that. So was he really consenting because he didn't care, or was he consenting because he didn't feel comfortable speaking against it/was afraid he'd lose Faye if he did?

Fair point, for the beginning of the relationship.  However, he's still ok with it now (when he has Dora), and he had two easy outs; once when they moved, and once when Dora asked him to move in with her (post Fayefixation).  He clearly doesn't consider the occasional smartass tax as a signifigant enough factor to want to escape, and in fact was very upset at the prospect of moving physically away from her despite no longer pursuing her romantically.

And Angus has received worse injury long before they really knew each-other.  In fact, he went out of his way to provoke Faye into it.  There was a time where that was the majority of what he knew of Faye and he still pursued her despite it, clearly not negative factor.

Faye is really a physically violent person,

I strongly disagree.  Has she ever lashed out in anger with the intent to seriously harm?  The closest might be Pintsize, but he's super durable, potentially doesn't feel it much, and clearly doesn't consider it a serious threat worth of avoiding Faye for.  The worst injuries she's inflicted have been play punches that the recipients seem not to care about or outright accept.

Basically, if that's what they like, who cares.  None of those characters needs a knight to save them from the Fayedragon.  If they don't want to put up with it, they'll speak up.  Until then there is no point to jump to their preemptive defense and condemn their decision to accept/embrace that aspect of Faye.  For her own part, Faye seems relatively restrained and exact as to the level of contact she'll make with any specific one of her friends.  You may not relish in the idea of being hit that hard, but if you were Faye's friend, odds are she would not hit you that hard.  Different comfort levels, different behavior.

[JackFaerie]

To be honest, it doesn't seem to ME like everyone is actually "ok" with the punchings, in the sense of "really does not mind them." Instead, what I see is people not actually enjoying them, but feeling like they're something they have to tolerate, or something that's "not worth making a fuss about," and I am saying it IS worth making a fuss about. Most people, for instance, aren't really allowed to punch Faye back--if Marten or Angus punched her back and left a bruise, there'd be hell to pay. I'm not comfortable with that dynamic, personally. When friends roughhouse and playfully punch each other, usually the point is that it is "each other." Instead, here I'm getting the feeling that the guys just basically feel like they have to put up with it because it would make them look like wusses if they don't.  Or that because she's a girl they're somehow obligated to put up with it.

If it weren't a one-way street, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.  Take Dora--Dora really does seem to be on an equal level with Faye, she's a girl (and not a shy one) so she can hit back, and she's playfully (but obviously playfully) tickled and molested Faye before. Note that Faye has NEVER hit Dora with the same force as Marten or Angus. Or even possibly at all, I can't recall.  (I know that Dora punched Faye on the shoulder once, but that was very exaggeratedly drawn to be a strictly playful, and seemingly light, friendly mock-punching.)  This tells me that: with a person who might hit her back, Faye does not punch, and definitely not forcefully enough to bruise. So... she only punches the guys, because they can't hit back? Not cool.

[Moxie]

but Faye punches (even if playing) with the intent to harm (which is why it doesn't seem playful, at least to me).

Fair enough, but she never punches anyone who objects to that.  You may as well condemn all roughhousing and sports.  Faye is nothing but consistent with this and yet its not considered serious by Martin, Angus, or even Pintsize.  As far as I can remember, Faye has never intentionally hurt, even with an accidentally strong play punch, someone who did not already expect this sort of behavior; Dora has never been punched hard despite multiple cases of tickling and molesting Faye, for instance.

I thought it was interesting that Faye does only seem to punch males, so I actually have been archive crawling to see if she did punch any females. You're right that Dora gets away with a lot concerning Faye, and it sort of seems to start here. Marten tells Faye she's loosening up, but it was Dora who grabbed at her, and apparently it didn't even seem to occur to Faye to punch Dora over that (despite the fact had it been a male, all other signs point to Faye automatically reacting with a punch). I'm not sure if it stems from her issues with her dad and trusting men, or what. Anyway, I also found this where Faye uses her issues to distract her sister before boob-punching her (which really hurts!) So, Faye has indeed punched a female, and her mother witnesses it and admits she would fake cry to (her brother?) to distract him for punches. So maybe this is just a learned behavior for Faye anyway.

(EDIT: Now, I know that dynamics between siblings and friends are very different, and making fun of oneself versus friends making fun of one's flaws is a different situation, but seeing Faye react to her sister there - haha, used my issues and pulled on over on you! - and seeing her reaction here - when an irritated Marten has to deal with a mess and Faye makes a remark that ticks him off more, so he sort of calls her an alcoholic and she gets all "waah, how could you be so mean and inconsiderate of my issues!" with him - is annoying to me. Faye seems to have some inconsistent standards regarding what people can do/say to her, especially concerning what she can do to males and how that can be retaliated. I don't wanna invalidate her issues, but I do think that Faye sits on an awful high horse.)

Also, given that Marten was Faye's target for a lot of the early punchings, at least, and not only did he have low self-esteem at that point in time, he also really liked Faye a lot, and seemed willing to put up with a lot of whatever from her because of that. So was he really consenting because he didn't care, or was he consenting because he didn't feel comfortable speaking against it/was afraid he'd lose Faye if he did?

Fair point, for the beginning of the relationship.  However, he's still ok with it now (when he has Dora), and he had two easy outs; once when they moved, and once when Dora asked him to move in with her (post Fayefixation).  He clearly doesn't consider the occasional smartass tax as a signifigant enough factor to want to escape, and in fact was very upset at the prospect of moving physically away from her despite no longer pursuing her romantically.

And Angus has received worse injury long before they really knew each-other.  In fact, he went out of his way to provoke Faye into it.  There was a time where that was the majority of what he knew of Faye and he still pursued her despite it, clearly not negative factor.

Haha, honestly Marten and Faye's dynamics baffle me - her behavior towards him was really cruel, I always thought. I think she's a much better person now (yay character growth!) and I'd bet Marten does too, which then makes sense why he doesn't want to lose her as a friend. At any rate, more power to him for that. I don't necessarily agree with his choices in not speaking up to Faye, but whatever.

I agree with you about Angus ('cause you're talking about her throwing him across the room, right?), but I can't agree that he knowingly provoked Faye into that sort of violence. I mean, Faye tells him she's gonna throw him through a plate-glass window, but this is the first time he's talked with her outside of CoD, isn't it? As far as he knows, Faye's all sass - she just says stuff, it's all a joke. I would definitely say he goaded her, but I don't think he really believed she would do such a thing. Though yeah, he continues his pursuit of her, so I guess she just is all about the intrigue for him. (And to his credit, in the current comic he doesn't try to make excuses or anything - he takes it as par for the course...which I suppose he'd after to, after being impressed with her ability to throw him across a room earlier).

Faye is really a physically violent person,

I strongly disagree.  Has she ever lashed out in anger with the intent to harm?  The closest might be Pintsize, but he's super durable, potentially doesn't feel it much, and clearly doesn't consider it a serious threat worth of avoiding Faye for.  The worst injuries she's inflicted have been play punches that the recipients seem not to care about or outright accept.

I just meant it in the sense that physical violence seems to always be her fallback - Faye almost always seems to hit first, ask questions second. Or something to that effect. (Haha, and yes, I believe she did lash out in anger when she threw Angus across the room!) EDIT: She has also admitted to using violence as a method to getting a male's attention.

[TAG]

Sorry one last response before bed.

@Jack

You have good points, but as I've said before, both Martin and Angus had ways to surreptitiously extract themselves from a relationship with Faye if they cared.  In Angus' case he was still drawn to her despite little else other than a sharp wit and tongue.

As to the point about Dora, I guess we see that differently.  I think she doesn't hit Dora because she knows Dora would not be ok with it, the same way she doesn't hit Raven or even Penny.  Heck, she doesn't even hit Steve to the best of my recall abilities and he's probably physically most capable of handling it.  Nor do I recall her hitting Sven till they were sleeping together.  She does, however, hit her sister (right in the teat), and I somehow don't see her sister as a retaliation safe target.  In other words, she really only hits people who she is / wants to be comfortable with and who are willing to tolerate it.  Honestly I've seen it in real life as an endearment / social thing so often that this just doesn't seem weird to me at all.

Edit:
Gah clearly I am too slow.

@Moxie
Re:Angus, it's alluded that she's thrown coffee of varying degrees at him several times, as well as tossing him out of the bar.  And I would say he goes out of his way.  Meeting at the bar may originally have been a coincidence but she told him to leave her alone and he persisted.  On a similar note he bought the silly purple shirt to provoke her into snark, and, since he never actually drinks his coffee, he was only there to provoke her into snark ever.  He was kinda creepy / stalkerish in that behavior, to be fair.

Re: Faye
I mostly covered things in the Jack response you hit on several of the issues too in your own post.

Note, I never said Faye was a particularly good person of even a particularly good friend (better than Marigold though, or at least less grating ;P); I just thought people's accusation that she was truly abusive are overstated.  She has grown, she still has issues (that she's at least occasionally trying to work through), but I don't think she or Martin or Angus see "Fayemergancies" as anything more than terms of endearment.  And I think the point that she never strikes out in real anger is important.

[JackFaerie]

Siblings are different, though.

I think she doesn't hit Penny because not only would Penny hit back, but I agree, she would be really upset by it. I will agree that Faye tries not to hit people who would be really upset, but I still don't feel like the other people she hits are in fact totally happy with it.

I think she doesn't hit Steve because he's not actually her friend and she doesn't quite know how he would react. Including the possibility that he might in fact hit her back, hard.


Marten said that Faye loosening up, so that he didn't have to "fear for his life" whenever they horsed around, made her "more fun to be around." He said this sincerely, not jokingly.  This, to me, sounds like him admitting that although he may tolerate the punchings, he does not enjoy them, and would take it as a positive if Faye were to cut them out.  Once again, it feels like Faye's male friends just enable her because they value her company enough to put up with the violence, but it's not that they "don't mind it at all" so much as they don't want to lose her, and feel like they have to deal with it to retain her company.

[pwhodges]

The original reason Faye doesn't hit Dora is that she's her boss, and she's scared of losing her job.

[Heranje]

Oh no quick everyone start yelling about how Dora is also abusive omgomg.

[Moxie]

Um. I'm not really impressed with Dora today.

Not only does she apparently blame everything on Marten (which I don't agree about at all - accidents happen, and quite frankly, I disagree that this was anything close to Marten's fault), but she also totally dismisses Hanners. Because, apparently, Dora has more experience. Never mind that it was Hanners who was there for Marigold after Marigold kissed Angus.

(And if the whole idea was to keep the whole thing a secret from Marigold to begin with, none of them are being good friends to her.)

[LeeC]

im confused, how is marten and idiot and at fault?

[TheHappyBerry]

Wait....why did Marten get in trouble?  Until  Marigold started questioning him, I thought his statement of "Meh, you know how it is with Faye" was appropriately vague.  If anything, it was Tai that was the IDIOT and even she had the excuse of not knowing any better.  Just when I was starting to like Dora again, she has to go back into crazy over reactionary bitch mode...

The last two panels did manage to make me laugh though.

[pwhodges]

Because he made the first somewhat thoughtless remark about Angus and Faye that Tai explained to Marigold. And it's a thing my wife calls me out on as well...

[AngryCallCenterAgent]

Marten, what have I told you about inserting your foot into your mouth? First, wash your feet. Second, add ketchup.

[JackFaerie]

Oh no quick everyone start yelling about how Dora is also abusive omgomg.

Ok, you know what? I give up. I think this strip proves that rather than the punching being Faye's problem, the real issue behind it is that Jeph just thinks that women hitting men is funny somehow.  And although "over the top violence" is an old gag frequently used in many comics, Jeph exacerbates it by putting it into a comic that is mostly realistic, and having the violence result in actual bruising that isn't a one-panel throwaway gag.  As such, I can't hold Faye-the-character responsible for it, and just have to strongly disagree with Jeph on this particular idea.

Seriously. I do not find it funny. At all. I find it very unpleasant and uncomfortable, and it makes me dislike the characters.  Maybe others don't feel the same way, but I do.

[brew]

a comic that is mostly realistic

wut

[Fenriswolf]

Well yeah, I agree Jack, and find the deliberate obtuseness of most of the people on here irritating enough to not bother debating seriously most of the time.

I always have been kinda on the fence about Faye's behaviour but I've come down on the side of "inappropriate" with these recent strips. Like you say, it is not at all reciprocal, and basically her utter sexism has always got up my nose. Frankly I've never quite seen how she was supposed to be cruel to Marten, but hitting people hard when you would not take the same treatment is bullshit.

And yeah, Dora's being a dick today.

[J]

i find it interesting, that as much implied punchery as there is in this comic, i can remember very few instances of anyone getting punched 'on camera'. people talk about getting punched, and rub there arms after getting punched, but how often do we actually see them getting punched?

[Heranje]

Oh no quick everyone start yelling about how Dora is also abusive omgomg.

Ok, you know what? I give up. I think this strip proves that rather than the punching being Faye's problem, the real issue behind it is that Jeph just thinks that women hitting men is funny somehow.  And although "over the top violence" is an old gag frequently used in many comics, Jeph exacerbates it by putting it into a comic that is mostly realistic, and having the violence result in actual bruising that isn't a one-panel throwaway gag.  As such, I can't hold Faye-the-character responsible for it, and just have to strongly disagree with Jeph on this particular idea.

Seriously. I do not find it funny. At all. I find it very unpleasant and uncomfortable, and it makes me dislike the characters.  Maybe others don't feel the same way, but I do.

I agree with you on some points - I just found it very entertaining that after there had been this long discussion about Faye's violence, Dora went on to bruise Marten in the next strip. I think the problem is that with the exception of this whole violent and abusive thing that mainly the women have going - with coffee being poured on CoD customers and those customers generally being treated like dirt, Faye punching people, others punching people, etc - the interaction and relations in the strip are realistically portrayed. Yes, I know, little talking robots, but there's a difference between a story in a fantastical setting were the portrayal of people and their interaction is still realistic, and a story with cartoonish relationships and over-the-top comic actions such as random punchings. When the rest of the way the characters relate to each other is portrayed realistically, violence that belongs in a more simple, cartoonish dynamic seems out-of-place. But I think we simply have to accept that discrepancy, and that "friendly" bruising punches dealt by the QC cast is not meant to be seen as actual abuse. Whether or not it's funny is another question entirely, and I pretty much agree that "women punching men is funny, men punching women is TERRIBLE" is a sexist attitude, but it's not one Jeph is alone in.

Look up collegehumor's "Robot girlfriend" skit on YouTube. That one pretty much illustrates the absurdity of seeing women's violence towards men as 'okay'. But though it's not a good attitude, it's not something that bothers me excessively - I like QC, so I'd rather overlook that issue than allow it to ruin my enjoyment of the comic.

[Schmorgluck]

(And if the whole idea was to keep the whole thing a secret from Marigold to begin with, none of them are being good friends o her.)

I think the whole idea was to wait for the right moment, and to find the right way to inform her. It's easy, from our point of view, to overlook how touchy and complicated such a situation can be, especially now that their course of action backfired spectacularly, but let's try and figure out what else they could have done: tough stuff.

I'm not sure Dora is right to dismiss Hannelore's help. She may be more experienced, but Hanners is really Marigold's closest friend. If anything, I think they should go together.

Although, on second thought, I'm wondering: how much did Hanners know about where Angus and Faye were at? I can't figure it out by the comics. But if she knew the whole of it, then Marigold could feel even more betrayed precisely because she's a close friend. "Why didn't you tell me?" In this case, Hannelore'd better be left out for now. But I'm not sure.

[JackFaerie]

a comic that is mostly realistic

wut

You know. As opposed to this:


 

As in, the people portrayed generally follow most laws of physics, have realistic pain thresholds and recovery periods (rather than being comically beat up in one panel and fine in the next), and are not particularly exaggerated in their emotions, reactions, and capabilities. Characters not caricatures.

[Akima]

...ketamine?!

I vaguely knew it was a veterinary anaesthetic, but I had to look up its other uses.

As for Faye's violence, people really need to get a life. This is a cartoon. One in which inoffensive Marten beat a kung-fu monk senseless with a frying-pan, and Steve blew up a volcano. I mean, seriously, if you can't get through the week without a dose of personal outrage, there are plenty of real issues out there to give you your fix...

Seriously. I do not find it funny. At all. I find it very unpleasant and uncomfortable, and it makes me dislike the characters.  Maybe others don't feel the same way, but I do.

How fortunate we are to have you to keep us on the straight and narrow.

[Border Reiver]

What guy wouldn't expect a hit to the arm (at least) after a comment like that?

[snubnose]

What guy wouldn't expect a hit to the arm (at least) after a comment like that?

Agreed.

[sudamerican]

im confused, how is marten and idiot and at fault?

yeah, i'm wondering the same thing

[vonschiller]

The week of 1,000 punches!

Wednesday: Cosette punches Steve
Thursday: Tai punches Hanners
Friday: Marigold gets a switchblade and cuts Faye or Angus

[Schmorgluck]

Wednesday: Cosette punches Steve, misses him, hits a wall, and breaks her wrist and six phalanxes

Fix'd it for you.

[Carl-E]

OK, I've been wondering this for two days now...

When Faye punched Angus, everyone fixated on the punching. 

But Faye had said, "He deserved it..."

We don't know what stupid/snarky/thoughtless thing Angus said to Faye, and quite frankly, Marten's attempt at being funny would earn any of us males-in-a-relationship a punch. 

Maybe Angus did deserve it...? 

[Jander]

Well honestly I would hope that my significant other could actually see the humor in telling me not to say something stupid and then saying something stupid that OBVIOUSLY was intended solely as a joke and not a statement of fact.

But again, if he doesn't have a problem with it, then whatever works for him.

[Odin]

Well honestly I would hope that my significant other could actually see the humor in telling me not to say something stupid and then saying something stupid that OBVIOUSLY was intended solely as a joke and not a statement of fact.

But again, if he doesn't have a problem with it, then whatever works for him.

Everyone should probably keep in mind what Marten's mother does for a living and how that probably affected his perception of healthy relationships.

[Heliphyneau]

OK, I've been wondering this for two days now...

When Faye punched Angus, everyone fixated on the punching. 

But Faye had said, "He deserved it..."

We don't know what stupid/snarky/thoughtless thing Angus said to Faye, and quite frankly, Marten's attempt at being funny would earn any of us males-in-a-relationship a punch. 

Maybe Angus did deserve it...? 

Yeah, what Angus said to Faye wasn't described, but in my head, he made a terribly obvious and pervy pie joke -- it'd be in context and fits his general foot-in-mouth approach.

I was actually expecting today's strip to show Marigold crying up in Hanners room, but it seems she's left the apartment?  Unless the apartment is so huge that it can somehow be unclear where someone has run off to within it.

Dora's overreacting and heading off to find Marigold so she can (s)mother her.  So how 'bout we ship those two instead?  Marigold is feeling vulnerable and needy, Dora is entranced by her large boobage . . .  What?  It's more frickin' plausible than Hanners/Marigold.