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Author Topic: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons  (Read 165692 times)

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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #450 on: 10 Mar 2011, 13:55 »

For the PC, you can zoom out a bit with the mousewheel, but the camera is always locked on your selected character. You can change the camera angle by holding the right mouse button, but I think it reverts if you move your character or issue orders.

Yeah it's kind of a pain.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #451 on: 10 Mar 2011, 19:34 »

This influence system is really the least intuitive one I've ever worked with. It's really weird - Merrill protests selling people into slavery, but her influence only goes down if the people you're selling are mages. It feels haphazard, but then, so does everything.

On the other hand, the more kinetic talents (bull rushes, etc.) do make the combat seem more fun.

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« Last Edit: 10 Mar 2011, 19:40 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #452 on: 10 Mar 2011, 19:42 »

« Last Edit: 10 Mar 2011, 19:48 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #453 on: 10 Mar 2011, 21:30 »

man there's a list of problems i have with the game but the framing device actually isn't among them. mostly i miss changing my companions' gear and i miss stats and tactics really mattering.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #454 on: 10 Mar 2011, 22:09 »

I'll give you stats and gear, I guess - for all the lack of stuff in ME2 I think they struck a fairly good balance re:inventory in that game. But that was a refinement of ME1. DA2 is... I don't know how it relates to DA:O. DA2 definitely suffers the most in relation to its predecessor. It's so odd, because aside from the lead designer position, the DA:O team is apparently fully intact into DA2.

Speaking of, a few months ago the DA:O lead wrote a post on his blog all but admitting he was fired for not being particularly enthused with the Mass Effect-y direction the series was being taken.
Quote
We were nearing the end of active work on design content for Dragon Age… there was still a lot more bug fixing/polishing/ and fill-content generation ahead but the core plot/writing and level design was finished. My work was rapidly shifting into that of reviewing what the team had put together.

Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. Through a series of circumstances it was decided that with my not wanting to participate on Dragon Age 2 it was time to transition in a new lead to finish the Dragon Age console versions and ramp up for Dragon Age 2. I moved out of an active lead role though I stayed on for several months performing quality assurance and helping with the transition. I completed the game several times during this period and racked up the second or third highest bug totals… so, still busy but doing something quite different.

After this was over and the content locked down I took a sabbatical. I wrote a lot during my several weeks of sabbatical time. One of the stories I wrote — “Digital Rights” — went on to win the Writers of the Future contest (though I wouldn’t learn that until late in 2009). While I enjoyed devoting my time to writing and spending more time with my kids I still had the ‘game design’ itch. When I returned to work I was hoping that there would be a new project lined up for me.

There wasn’t, not really. I did some high level design for a potential new project but a few months later I realized that, given cutbacks and other things that it really seemed unlikely that the project I had been ‘assigned’ to was ever going to materialize. I can’t/won’t go into any other details other than to point to an old entry I made about this and reiterate: “I’m not the same person I was when I started, and BioWare isn’t the same company.” So I quit, giving a couple months notice to finish up my obligations on the new/hypothetical project and then in early September 2009 I left BioWare. I had a great last lunch with many of the designers I had helped train over the years. I definitely miss all the interaction at the office; there’s nothing like a couple hundred uber creative folk running around to stir the imagination but I am very much enjoying my stress reduced life.

But yeah, biggest disappointment is the combat, which really does not deviate from the "three wave" template through the vast majority of the game. At first you can be really into the tactics, but after awhile it just becomes a slog. You just weather the blasts of cannon fodder. It feels a lot like an even more streamlined Jade Empire, in a bad way.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #455 on: 10 Mar 2011, 22:19 »

there's the thing – it made sense to pare down that stuff in mass effect because mass effect is about blasting dudes, making choices and boning space babes. dragon age was like a game that had a bunch of politics that your character didn't really know shit all about and repeatedly found him/herself in the thick of. it was also a game about like that old-school top-down party rpg stuff – working your tanks and your buffs and all those words i hate and don't care about. but the actual meat of it was really fun. making the game more mass effecty has made it lose a lot of its soul, i think.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #456 on: 11 Mar 2011, 01:00 »

The thing about ME1 was that it was a classic example of how a lot of RPG conventions turn vestigial REAL fast when taken out of context. For example, equipment upgrades and levels served a real purpose in games like Dragon Quest or Dungeon Crawl, since the primary skill required in those games is plain old threat assessment. As such items ans experience points operated in large part as a way to gate content until you figure out how to acquire more of them while exposing yourself to a minimum of risk-- a dilemma that frankly, many games aren't particularly interested in presenting anymore. Getting your shit ruined by a werewolf because you tried going to Rimuldar early is way too 1986 for most people. However, that does mean that consequently any level/ability/item gained in a modern RPG that does not directly give players a new option to toy with or fails to reshape a character's primary role is largely meaningless as anything other than a way to give the OCD set a post-game. ME2 figured that out, which is why each class had roughly the same number of active abilities as they ever did in the first game-- if not more-- despite having had far less skill points to play with. I would argue with conviction that it was streamlined rather than dumbed down like a lot of reactionaries whined.
« Last Edit: 11 Mar 2011, 01:02 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #457 on: 11 Mar 2011, 02:20 »

I got in about 4 hours of the actual game last night before sleep beckoned. So just a few initial impressions:

  • The combat is faster and more fun on standard fights lacking origins slog and grind. The bosses from what little I've seen are a mixed bunch. Some are an interesting challenge, others are mobs with higher health and 2 points more damage that simply need to be CC'd out the way until you're ready to deal with them.
  • Dialogue so far is fine. Nothing immensely stand out but I seem to but drawn unwittingly to a blunt, sarcastic Hawke. Yet unsure if this is good or bad.
  • The art style is excellent when it comes to Kirkwall and the Companions, not so much beyond that. Still the broader colour palette is nice.
  • It's hard to say a great deal about the story so far but it does feel rather ME2-ish with its primary interactions being around companion quests. Also either a slow burner or slow starter but I'm liking the illusion of freedom. Do whatever quest you want by whatever means you feel best.

Enjoying it greatly so far. Further updates forthcoming.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #458 on: 11 Mar 2011, 06:56 »

http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2011/03/dragon-age-ii-in-5-seconds/

Man.  I still haven't played this game yet and look at the amount of crap I have accumulated for it!

« Last Edit: 11 Mar 2011, 07:32 by Caleb »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #459 on: 11 Mar 2011, 07:30 »

http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2011/03/dragon-age-ii-in-5-seconds/

See, now that makes me nostalgic for the old game.  I miss Golden Axe.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #460 on: 11 Mar 2011, 07:55 »

Yeah.  Now I want to go play some Golden axe on my Mastersystem.

Or the remake on the PS2.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #461 on: 11 Mar 2011, 09:05 »



Man.  I still haven't played this game yet and look at the amount of crap I have accumulated for it!

[IMG]
Doesn't look like you've got the bonus party member. That'll be $10. You got it free if you pre-ordered before the game had any in-depth previews or gameplay vids (expired the day before the game made it to Steam, but that's EA for you.

Did you play the online game? I think that gave you one or two trinkets.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #462 on: 11 Mar 2011, 12:57 »

No the free party member thing is console specific and only shows up on XBox Live.  Maybe once I actually have the game running it will show up.  I entered the code and stuff.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #463 on: 11 Mar 2011, 14:00 »

So wait, you got the game for more than one platform and you've only got the Exiled Prince on the 360? I'm confused.

But yeah, they went absolutely bugfuck with DLC with this game. EA had DLC set aside to be conditionally released upon the completion of a number of crowd-sourced PR initiatives (twitter and facebook stuff) and even things like items that you could only get if you had something shipped to you from some company somewhere. Superfans were paying $15 to have letter openers shipped to them so that they could get some random item.

'Tis the future of gaming, today.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #464 on: 11 Mar 2011, 15:34 »

When games like Valve are selling their games for 50% off, and selling their Portal 2 bundled for PS3 and Steam together...  And making a ton of profit, no, I'm not convinced that it's the future of gaming.

Still, EA is annoying as heck in that way.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #465 on: 11 Mar 2011, 15:46 »

As such items ans experience points operated in large part as a way to gate content until you figure out how to acquire more of them while exposing yourself to a minimum of risk-- a dilemma that frankly, many games aren't particularly interested in presenting anymore. Getting your shit ruined by a werewolf because you tried going to Rimuldar early is way too 1986 for most people. However, that does mean that consequently any level/ability/item gained in a modern RPG that does not directly give players a new option to toy with or fails to reshape a character's primary role is largely meaningless as anything other than a way to give the OCD set a post-game. ME2 figured that out, which is why each class had roughly the same number of active abilities as they ever did in the first game-- if not more-- despite having had far less skill points to play with.

i thought the first dragon age had this down as well. the character development was fairly balanced without being a content gate.

  I would argue with conviction that it was streamlined rather than dumbed down like a lot of reactionaries whined.

i don't think you'll get much argument on this forum. but me2 needed streamlining, since a lot of the rpg stuff like loot collecting and having a ton of skill points felt really clunky in the context of a third person shooter. dragon age didn't really get streamlined so much as all the stats stuf now feels irrelevant.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #466 on: 11 Mar 2011, 16:09 »

Yeah, I meant that ME2 was streamlined, not DA2. I got to rambling quite a bit last night because it was late and I was tired. I guess my point is that a lot of attributes and such are actually pretty clunky in many RPGs as well, but due to context people don't really question it.
« Last Edit: 11 Mar 2011, 16:13 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #467 on: 11 Mar 2011, 16:32 »

Stats serve an important purpose - to differentiate character builds beyond simple skill choice. Sadly DA2 has rendered them essentially meaningless via equipment requirements. You are actively punished for deviating from standard builds.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #468 on: 11 Mar 2011, 16:39 »

In theory they can if you do it right, but in a lot of cases I've found that many games do more or less "punish" you from deviating from an ideal and typically what that "ideal" is boils down to what you can infer the devs think you're supposed to do given that most games keep a fair amount of mechanical information hidden from the players.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #469 on: 11 Mar 2011, 17:10 »

So wait, you got the game for more than one platform and you've only got the Exiled Prince on the 360? I'm confused.

No I got the game for the 360.  I already installed the prince thing but haven't actually played the game yet.  I don't know if the DLC will actually show up on that list until I have actually played the game once.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #470 on: 11 Mar 2011, 18:43 »

Guys Steve has this game.  I watch him play, on account fo he plays all the time now.  I just want to say : I would totally bone that dwarf bard guy in the party.  That is all.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #471 on: 12 Mar 2011, 01:50 »


Eyyyyy


Anyway, weird to think that this might be the first Bio game since NWN1 that I don't finish with my first character. There are just so many niggling things. The impression that I'm getting is that this game really, really needed another year of development time. Someone did an interview with Inon Zur recently where he just came out and said "Dragon Age 2 seemed like a rush job, let me know where I fucked up". The gameplay would be imminently forgivable had the narrative and characters been good, but aside from Varric and Aveline (to an extent) I'm not warming to any of the characters so far, and all I'm missing at this point are Isabela and the Scottish DLC Prince.

The biggest thing is that DA2 seems to always tell and never show, especially in the first two acts. DA:O and ME benefited from a choice of character backgrounds that centered the Warden / PC and gave context to the way they acted. Hawke, on the other hand, is a total cypher. We only catch glimpses of his / her story - The in media res opening is exceedingly problematic from a characterization standpoint even with the "it's a story being told" handwave. When you transition from Act 1 to Act 2, there is literally no sense of time having any real meaning, even though it's a central aspect of the storytelling mechanism. The grief of your family over the events of the prologue is as hollow (more, even) than Fallout 3's father-child dynamic, because you spend literally less than 5 minutes with them before you're asked to become emotionally invested in their bland, trite lives. It keeps coming back up and you think "oh yeah, that thing that happened".

Then you get to Kirkwall, you spend a year working for some ill-defined group, the game resumes at the end of the year, and Hawke has "made a name for himself" despite the fact that you never see and are never really told exactly what you did. There is no sense of progression or accomplishment. You run into people who Hawke apparently knows but all they really say is "Oh hey Hawke I haven't seen you since that last time I saw you you sure are making a name for yourself heh heh have a look at my wares". Add to that a severe lack of direction despite the linearity of the game (you want to get to the Deep Roads apparently but it's never explained exactly why you want to, besides the fact that the plot wouldn't work without it) and everything else that seems half-finished and you have a seriously disorienting game experience. I'm really hoping it'll tighten up in the next acts, but from what I've read (even from pro reviewers operating on the 8-10 scale) the ending is pretty terrible.

There are times where the combat is good, at least! Specifically in Act ! there's a quest in a mine where the cheap respawning doesn't occur (and it's actually challenging!) and there's a beach area fight that's well-laid out and manages to be fun even with the standard "wave" combat template. There have been a few instances of potentially interesting choice & consequence, though I won't know how well they'll follow through until I manage to drag myself to the next act.

And I have to reiterate how aggravating the influence system is. Everything about it. They characterize everything as point gain ("Varric rivalry +5", "Aveline friendship +10") despite the fact that friendship / rivalry is one axis and thus, point gain in one is point loss in the other. It seems actively deceptive to me. Like, just call it what it is - DA:O's influence bar with benefits for low scores. And it's still a shitty system!
« Last Edit: 12 Mar 2011, 02:01 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #472 on: 12 Mar 2011, 02:18 »

Also hey hey hey guess what

EA included Securom on DA2 while specifically denying doing so despite being under court orders not to do that! lol :D :D :D
« Last Edit: 12 Mar 2011, 02:21 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #473 on: 12 Mar 2011, 03:04 »

Also one thing that fucking sucks about combat in this game: There is no line of sight for archers. Try to hide behind a wall? They will shoot straight through it. Try to dodge projectiles? Fuck that, dudes use homing arrows.

ALSO protip: If you're still in Act 1 (after the first year in Kirkwall) periodically drop in to the Lowtown bar that Varric is based out of. I've read that a number of people have completely missed Isabela because they didn't go there at the precise right time in Act 1.
« Last Edit: 12 Mar 2011, 03:31 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #474 on: 12 Mar 2011, 13:19 »

This game seems to actively illustrate how messed up review scores are nowadays.  I really do not see how this game has gotten 9's and even a perfect score.  The game has problems and from everything I've read it seems to have quite a lot of problems.  How much do you think Bioware's reputation is influencing review scores?

And wow, reading the user reviews on metacritic is making me cringe, I will never make that mistake again.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #475 on: 12 Mar 2011, 17:18 »

So glad I hated the demo.  If the demo was good and I'd bought it expecting more of the same then I'd be exploding with rage.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #476 on: 12 Mar 2011, 17:41 »

And I have to reiterate how aggravating the influence system is. Everything about it. They characterize everything as point gain ("Varric rivalry +5", "Aveline friendship +10") despite the fact that friendship / rivalry is one axis and thus, point gain in one is point loss in the other. It seems actively deceptive to me. Like, just call it what it is - DA:O's influence bar with benefits for low scores. And it's still a shitty system!

none of the actions in it are intuitive. which you've mentioned before, but i still feel i ought to reiterate. like, okay: merrill in conversation tells me she wants to go with me into the fade, so i take her – and her rivalry goes up? then says we shouldn't parley with demons, so i tell a demon to shove it – and her, uh, her rivalry goes up again? what the fuck even is that. don't tell me one thing and then fucking have another thing entirely happen. i'm so annoyed
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #477 on: 12 Mar 2011, 17:42 »

this is the first bioware game where i'm not going to pursue a romance on my first run-through, because my current hawke isn't a gay dude and the women make me want to stab myself in the brain
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #478 on: 12 Mar 2011, 17:46 »

hahaha ok act 2 update don't bring merrill into the fade with you even if she asks you to because she's a huge dumb asshole of a character and fuck her forever
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #479 on: 12 Mar 2011, 18:37 »

BUT SHE'S SOOOOOO KEWT  :psyduck:
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #480 on: 12 Mar 2011, 19:36 »

GIGGLESQUEE I WANT TO NOM HER HEAD

Anyway, Gibbed (the save generator hacker dude) found and unlocked a bunch of stuff for character creation - right click and save this and put it... somewhere (ed: Documents\Bioware\Dragon Age 2\packages\core\override, create if it doesn't exist). Includes two editable "iconic" (read: Default) Hawke faces and new hairstyles and the Qunari skin tone.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #481 on: 12 Mar 2011, 19:51 »


Hawwwke... Open your mind to me... Open your miiiind... Open your miiiiiiiiiiiind
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #482 on: 14 Mar 2011, 12:09 »

So all the reviews I've read make this sound like a game I want to play rather than the endless tedium I find DA:O to be but the internet nerds keep saying it is the worst game ever made and BioWare is done and should be executed and put in a mass grave I don't know what to believe.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #483 on: 14 Mar 2011, 13:31 »

I think it's mostly that the internet nerds really liked the style and the way old game played, but Bioware changed quite a bit of it. At least that's what I take it to be.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #484 on: 14 Mar 2011, 14:14 »

So all the reviews I've read make this sound like a game I want to play rather than the endless tedium I find DA:O to be but the internet nerds keep saying it is the worst game ever made and BioWare is done and should be executed and put in a mass grave I don't know what to believe.
Get the demo and then play it, and then you might as well buy it, because the demo is essentially the entirety of the game experience..
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #485 on: 14 Mar 2011, 14:47 »

Also, I would personally prefer it if you would play the game before you white knight it. I came to my opinions honestly.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #486 on: 14 Mar 2011, 16:02 »

Also, I would personally prefer it if you would play the game before you white knight it. I came to my opinions honestly.

Bullllllllllllllllshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

I didn't actually like the demo too much, though. The AV Club and Kotaku reviews just made me interested in the plot more than I thought I'd be.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #487 on: 14 Mar 2011, 16:06 »

I didn't actually like the demo too much, though.
Better get your head checked, there is definitely something wrong with you.

In other news, Bioware got caught astroturfing metacritic, but there's a good chance 4chan is doing the same to some extent on the opposite end of the score spectrum, so whatever.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #488 on: 14 Mar 2011, 17:06 »

Man, I just looked at Metacritic for the first time re: DA2.

A 3.7 user rating. On the first page, out of 100 reviews, 23 are 0s.

I detest the gaming community.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #489 on: 14 Mar 2011, 18:00 »

The gaming community is.....horrible.  Incredibly bigoted, sexist, idiotic, entitled, homophobic...I don't think I can say many nice things about the gaming community.  And the more "hardcore" it gets the worse the people seem to become.  I used to identify myself as a gamer and followed parts of the community and it was like dipping into one of the most poisonous environments I've ever been in. 

I think the best way of looking at the gaming community in large is that they're whiny children throwing a tantrum.  I mean, read some of those reviews, they're tantrums.  I would read more of them but they're seriously depressing and are making me embarrassed.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #490 on: 14 Mar 2011, 20:04 »

Somebody pointed me towards a quote of Gaider's defending the bi romances that make so many homophobic kids uncomfortable:
Quote from: David Gaider
So long as romances of any kind are optional and need to be actively pursued by the player in order to be experienced, they simply don't have a leg to stand on. Advocating that nobody should be able to have content you don't intend to personally use is largely pointless-- outside of a vague notion that such efforts should go towards other things, instead. Personally, it's not a lot of effort to include them. The resources we can devote to a minority of players isn't great, but I imagine to those players it's quite worth it... and I would hope that some folks could be sensitive enough to be happy for those players, at the very least out of the selfish notion that they may one day end up in the minority of some content issue and receive the same consideration if nothing else.

Quaint that he would take up the cause of minorities, considering they're not really worth making overtures to:
Quote from: David Gaider
We didn't (and won't) do strictly gay romances because a romance is very expensive content-- both from a writing, cinematic and testing perspective. It's one thing to add the extra costs to piggy-back on top of an existing romance plotline (and by this I don't necessarily mean "add gay option to straight romance"... it could just as easily be the reverse) and quite something else to have a romance created from whole cloth.

Meanwhile, back at the Bioboards, the mods seem to have the week off or something (?) and the forums have become even more entertaining as a result (spoilers past first post).

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Maybe its the games way of saying it bites you in the ass, much like backing the Communists did for alot of your more smart and rich Russians.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #491 on: 14 Mar 2011, 20:28 »

everybody is a fucking blood mage, that's a good point
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #492 on: 14 Mar 2011, 21:07 »

Seriously I can't think of a single mage aside from Bethany who isn't a blood mage.

Another retcon - in DA:O, demonic possession was something that happened to practitioners of blood magic, which you could only learn via pact with a fade spirit. In DA2, demonic possession apparently happens when someone with latent magical ability, however untrained, enters into a situation of extreme stress or minor physical harm (that or the demonic pact trade in Kirkwall is a buyer's market). There's no ambiguity ala DA:O - mages are literally bombs just waiting to go off and the Templars, who seemed draconian before, are now completely justified in the most draconian anti-magic efforts.

If anything, I'd attribute it to the need to have melee fighters in mage-centric battles - abominations fight hand-to-hand. It also is just kind of indicative of the serious lack of non-combat solutions to a lot of quests.
« Last Edit: 14 Mar 2011, 21:09 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #493 on: 14 Mar 2011, 21:20 »

like do you realize that after this term ends i'm going to buy and replay da:o probably just to see if i'm being too fond in how i remember it? and to see how the story holds up?

not sure how i feel about the qunari in this game either
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #494 on: 14 Mar 2011, 21:31 »

I would advise looking up a few mods first - The Fade portion of the Circle Tower mission is fun once, but a slog on replay. There are mods to remove things like that. You'll probably have fun, until you get to the Deep Roads. Errybody hates the Deep Roads.

If you're hoping to maybe shake DA2 up with a different save import from DA:O, you probably shouldn't bother - People have compared notes and apparently many of the major DA:O decisions (character deaths, who gets crowned ruler of Ferelden, etc.) are entirely ignored, not even in a "they don't mention it" way, either. There are apparently aspects of the storyline that are canon no matter what you actually did.

Speaking of major decisions, will there be any reason to revisit this game, should one finish it? I'm mopping up all the missions in Act 1 and I feel like there's probably nothing I haven't seen that will be revealed in a second playthrough. I feel like Bio may have taken a look at replay statistics and decided it wasn't worth the bother.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #495 on: 14 Mar 2011, 21:38 »

I liked the Deep Roads.  Just sayin'.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #496 on: 14 Mar 2011, 22:29 »

I would advise looking up a few mods first - The Fade portion of the Circle Tower mission is fun once, but a slog on replay. There are mods to remove things like that. You'll probably have fun, until you get to the Deep Roads. Errybody hates the Deep Roads.

~console gaming~

If you're hoping to maybe shake DA2 up with a different save import from DA:O, you probably shouldn't bother - People have compared notes and apparently many of the major DA:O decisions (character deaths, who gets crowned ruler of Ferelden, etc.) are entirely ignored, not even in a "they don't mention it" way, either. There are apparently aspects of the storyline that are canon no matter what you actually did.

dude, dish. most of what i've heard of ferelden is like what happened to me in the game (crowned alastair, lived, was a mage). what gets ignored

Quote
Speaking of major decisions, will there be any reason to revisit this game, should one finish it? I'm mopping up all the missions in Act 1 and I feel like there's probably nothing I haven't seen that will be revealed in a second playthrough. I feel like Bio may have taken a look at replay statistics and decided it wasn't worth the bother.

act 2 is where like decision making comes to bear – you face down a bunch of decisions you made in the first act. and act 2's decisions are much harder to make, too. the structure of the game really strongly resembles mass effect 2, in that the second act presents you with all your companion quests basically in a big chunk. and it's actually where the best parts of the game's storytelling come through.

but i dunno. revisiting the game means having to maneuver the fucking stupid influence system again and i'm not sure if i'll have the patience for that.

where's bryan been in this thread. paging bryan, this thread
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #497 on: 14 Mar 2011, 23:21 »

Yeah, where the fuck is bryan?

~console gaming~
Bummer! If you don't want to go out, I'm pretty sure DA:O is available on-demand via XBL.

dude, dish. most of what i've heard of ferelden is like what happened to me in the game (crowned alastair, lived, was a mage). what gets ignored
In that case you should be okay, but yeah, if you choose to sac yourself like I did it's retconned out (the Warden is never dead, and I don't think it's ever mentioned but I would not be surprised if you always end up impregnating Morrigan), various CNPCs from both DA:O and Awakenings (Anders, natch, but also Leilana, Alistair, Zevran) who could have been killed but weren't. I'll have to dig up the rest, but it's unclear at this point whether it's bugged flags/states (happened quite a bit with New Vegas) or things they never accounted for.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #498 on: 15 Mar 2011, 01:23 »

they're selling DA:O and :A as a package deal now so i might try & snag that
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #499 on: 15 Mar 2011, 02:05 »

Okay so wow quite a bit of hate goin on here (or at least some undertones of animosity)

I find it odd to have disliked some of the changes made to Mass Effect 2 and then completely do a face-heel turn on the same sort of drastic changes made to Dragon Age II in comparison to Origins. It does seem a bit silly, but hey lemme try and work this out onto this thread.

I’m just going to put it out there; I love this game to bits, and was eventually bored shitless by the combat in Origins to the point where I never managed to get to play Awakening. I’m not sure what brought this about, because I was pretty into both Neverwinter Nights games, etc. But I found myself really enjoying the changes they made to Dragon Age II, and while I do understand some of the cons that other fans of Origins are pointing out, I’m confused by some others.

Some of the points I’ve noticed from some of my friends include giving Hawke a voice, over-simplifying the inventory system, and so on leading up to the argument that the ‘role-playing’ idea is diminished in comparison to the first game. For example, I can certainly get what people are saying when Hawke isn’t their own character in comparison to Origins, it’s Bioware’s character – but that doesn’t necessarily mean playing as Hawke ‘isn’t role-playing’.

The combat, I think, is what is keeping me playing this game. Despite yes, there is tedium to the ho-hum send-shit-in-waves until they run out of peons routine, the underlying system is just so much… faster than the combat in Origins, especially the Rogue class. Dual-wield combat is just so dynamic from the get-go, in comparison to what it was in the first game. And hey, look, bows and arrows actually mean something.
I suppose in hindsight a lot of the mechanics in Origins are still inherent in Dragon Age II, particularly in the combat. In my opinion, it’s just that there’s a certain element of “hands-free” approach, where Backstab is a skill that automatically puts you behind the enemy rather than a latent thing that just happened when you forcibly moved your character behind them, and other sorts of things. But I don’t see anything wrong with that in particular. There’s such an ease to the spatial element in Rogue combat that makes everything faster, and I think that’s what I like over how it played in Origins.

It also comes down to the fact that I didn’t have the patience for the management of my characters in Origins aside from my own. Despite really loving the characters in my party and everything they had to say to each other, when it came down to leveling up and assigning the right points to the right skills, I eventually stopped giving a shit and auto-levelled everyone save for my own character I created. It felt like I had to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the library of options available for each class. The reason why I’m probably manually assigning points to stats in Dragon Age II as opposed to automatically doing everything  (or more accurately, actually relishing the task rather than dreading it) is because there are some easy commonalities in the skill trees, understandings I can apply to all the characters of the same class, and specializations become only a fraction of what I have to know.

For lack of a better word, I thought the gameplay in Origins was fucking slow and plodding. Visually, it didn’t feel like there was a connection between what was being animated and the numbers in the actual attacks. There’s just more action in it, and while I do appreciate the purpose of Origins stylistically was to be a throwback to older RPG systems, I think I got over that sort of thing by the time I played RPGs like Mass Effect. Same goes for the voice-acting: I think once I got into the idea of the character having a voice via dialogue wheel, I never went back. Even if I loved the Neverwinter Nights series and everything about KotOR, it felt odd playing as Shepard, and then going back to my protagonist in Dragon Age who was the only mute in the whole world and communicated via a menu on the screen. I argue that it’s a different kind of role-playing, where you’re still immersing yourself into a role that might not be your own, but it’s still a role.

Dragon Age II is a huge departure from Origins. That’s basically the gist I get of the negativity from the fanbase. There were big changes, big ones that cater for a different kind of RPG gamer. But hey, that’s cool. People got different tastes. But personally I don’t appreciate the part of the community that cries out for blood when it knows about all these changes and still refuse to let it go after a year or two.

And I remember reading this article and that just got me annoyed. Bioware changed the format of a ‘classic RPG’. God forbid they try to make changes to one of their IPs to cater for a different group after 12 years since Baldur’s Gate.

And button mashing and lack of decent pause-play combat? What a load of bullshit. On the PC version anyway. Which is, so I’m told, the only platform to play a cRPG on.

I digress. I don’t think the game is perfect: it’s not hard to see that environments are copy-pasted and recolored in different spots in an excuse for visual splendor. The characters are a far cry from the dynamics in Origins and Awakening. There have been changes to a few returning supporting characters that I think were put in hastily and without reason. And the Kirkwall period of “get 50 sovereigns to go to expedition” is quite obviously nothing more than a huge wad of padding and one big goddamn fetch quest. While I think the dialogue wheel and voice acting for Hawke is something I much prefer to the silent words spoken by the Grey Warden, the writing doesn’t have the same sort of zing to it. And almost everything picked up in barrels, chests, and boxes is useless crap to be sold, even the rarest of weapons and items unusable by Hawke. So yes, this game is chock-a-block full of issues.

But I think it’s far from the shitstain that the butthurt part of the fanbase are making it out to be.
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 02:11 by satsugaikaze »
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