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Author Topic: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons  (Read 165668 times)

KvP

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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #500 on: 15 Mar 2011, 02:47 »

I think the fact that you could pause the game and use "tactics", if you wanted to, does nothing to ameliorate the stink of 99% of the combat in a 30-something hour game almost entirely devoted to combat being mechanically indistinguishable from any other fight. After 10 or so hours of that one fight, you just want to get through the "trash mobs", or at least not have to see so, so many waves of cannon fodder beamed down in inexplicable places (some areas allow for dozens of rope-rappelling animations, some enemies pop out of the ground, but a good majority seem to materialize ala people going through doors in Oblivion).

I don't know how exactly you would seriously use tactics in DA2. The system they created is much slower than the combat and what's more, tactics are ostensibly about smart management of limited resources and skill expenditures, where there isn't much of either in DA2 combat. Okay, so I'm a rogue character and I've got Death Mark, which has a cooldown time that puts it roughly at one use per combat incident. For a fight in that 99% of standard mob wave fights, what is the "smart" usage of that skill? What do I lose from using it on the tough grunt in the first wave of tough grunt + 3 glass fighters + 3 glass archers? Do I put myself at a disadvantage when the second and third waves of tough grunt + 3 glass fighters + 3 glass archers comes around? Should I hold off and wait for a situation where I "need" it, which barely ever comes? No, nearly every fight can be won with a basic set of tactics that you hash out pretty early, so variations are more just for giggles than anything else.

I don't really have a great love for Origins' design and I don't really judge the sequel as a "step down" at this point. I just think Dragon Age 2 is a piss-poor game in nearly every respect, on its own terms. It is more tedious than DA:O ever was. Everything about it is either repetitive or unintuitive.

Speaking of which, I started getting into Merrill's convos / quest in earnest and man Johnny, you weren't kidding. Being nice only gets you rivalry points with this character. I have no idea how to make her my friend.
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 02:53 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #501 on: 15 Mar 2011, 02:55 »

it's fucking insane! you do what she wants and she gets mad at you. you say "fuck it" and please the rest of your party and she gets mad at you. there's no pleasing her!
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #502 on: 15 Mar 2011, 03:39 »

On that note, anyone who went through the Dalish Elf Origins will know what they did to Merril as a character. The writers turned a stalwart, even if somewhat bland, peripheral character into a ditzy petulant supporting one for the sake of the character dynamics.

I wasn't happy about that at all.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #503 on: 15 Mar 2011, 06:14 »

I don't think it's ever mentioned but I would not be surprised if you always end up impregnating Morrigan

So they don't take into account that you could play through DA:O as a woman?

What happens to that plot element if you are a chick? I'm not going to bother to play through the entire game again to get to know, so did anyone play that far as a woman?
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #504 on: 15 Mar 2011, 08:51 »

Man I started playing this a bit.

Like What the HELL is up with random ass side quests?  Like I clicked through all my quests and I found mention of a bottle of wine.  So I give it to an elf for 50 silver.  But I don't remember how I got the wine and there was no conversation with anyone before I just randomly give it to someone who I never met before.  There is just so little meat to the gameplay there.  I don't think the elf who I gave the wine bottle to even had a proper name.  Like it's fine to have fetch quests and find NPCs that will buy things from you that you randomly find in your adventure.  But they seem to skipped the entire step of the player finding this quest for themselves!

I mean consider the Nuka-cola Quantum quest in Fallout 3.  Like that was basically the same kind of quest but the player actually has to find and talk to the NPC before they can start the quest.  And the conversation with the insane lady was half the fun of the quest!  You know RPG STUFF!

I was kinda excited that they ripped off the Baldur's Gate Storyline of having to get a certain amount of gold together for a quest but I am kinda weirded out how everyone seems to know you already.  Like you don't get to meet people and have your first interactions with them.  The woman who sells potions already knows you.  The guy who sells poisons already knows you.  Their opinions of you are already formed.

Also the game never explains how to use your dog.  It's a sustained spell that you use to summon it.  But the game never tells you that.  A small complaint but it's another annoyance.

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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #505 on: 15 Mar 2011, 10:02 »

also i should say that unlike john i'm actually enjoying a lot of the game, but i think it pales greatly in comparison to its predecessor.

look at the deep roads in this game. the first game they were a bit of a grind but the sense of scale and differentiation between thaigs made the sequence somewhat worthwhile, as did the fairly spectacular final dungeon. but in this game the deep roads are by comparison pretty unimpressive – it lacks the sense of enormous scale that made crossing the bridge to the dead trenches so awesome.

or look at how, as john points out, the tactics have become seriously neutered. the first game basically put you right in the thick of any given battle and told you "deal with this, right now." and you had to pause and get your bearings and strategize. that meant carefully choosing your party and coming up with a set of tactics that worked for you and worrying yourself about positioning and assessing threat priorities and, basically, actually thinking about stuff. in DAII you mostly just pretend you're in streets of rage for five minutes and occasionally mash the "magics!" button (or the backstab button or whatever). i find myself marking baddies for death a lot, personally, but that doesn't mean the combat's deliberate, it means mostly that i want it to be over faster since i know i'm just going to be hammering the A button for four minutes otherwise. i like that they made the combat look a lot more dynamic and natural, but i don't think they had to completely neuter everything that made the first game's combat interesting to do so.

i guess if you find the first game's combat boring, okay, whatever. but it was a thing you had to learn and get used to, and that in itself was rewarding. how do you master combat in this game? become an expert at timing your "magics!" button presses?

i mean – i guess the whole thing about this game is that it doesn't ask you to think nearly as much. it doesn't ask you to consider routes through any area since all the areas are literally just the same thing over and over again and run you down a totally linear pathway anyhow. it doesn't ask you to consider anything about your characters' stats, strengths, and weaknesses, just whether or not you can equip certain gear (and doesn't ask you to consider party gear, either, since the few things you can equip them with outside of weaponry make such a piddling difference). it doesn't ask you to consider how you approach battles since all battles are pretty much the same in terms of strategy.

and the result is that it plays closer to jade empire, which is mystifying because that game had a lukewarm reception at best and the ideas that they've ported to DAII (specifically the way combat works) are like the ideas that generally panned out the worst in that game. i can't figure out why they've made a european-setting jade empire rather than a sequel to dragon age, mostly. i don't think it's a bad game, necessarily (since i'm playing it, and having fun, and looking forward to playing it more), and i don't think i dislike it, but i am disappointed, and i think it's ridiculous to suggest that finding aspects of a game disappointing is instantly equatable to calling it a shitstain.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #506 on: 15 Mar 2011, 10:28 »

Except that's what the gaming community is literally doing?
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #507 on: 15 Mar 2011, 10:40 »

was rewarding. how do you master combat in this game? become an expert at timing your "magics!" button presses?

The only thing you can master is switching between characters to get max damage via status effects of different attacks.  That is the only strategy involved really.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #508 on: 15 Mar 2011, 11:31 »

Except that's what the gaming community is literally doing?

not in this thread??? in fact mostly what i've read is backlash against people who have problems with the game. that's like way more widespread.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #509 on: 15 Mar 2011, 14:27 »

I don't know dude is it even really possible to honestly dislike things about Bioware games?

I don't think it's ever mentioned but I would not be surprised if you always end up impregnating Morrigan

So they don't take into account that you could play through DA:O as a woman?

What happens to that plot element if you are a chick? I'm not going to bother to play through the entire game again to get to know, so did anyone play that far as a woman?
You can also peer pressure Alistair into fucking Morrigan.
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 14:32 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #510 on: 15 Mar 2011, 15:10 »

John, can you stop pretending we're the bioware social forums and stop being as much of a dick for a bit?
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 15:12 by ackblom12 »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #511 on: 15 Mar 2011, 15:18 »

John, can you stop pretending we're the bioware social forums and stop being as much of a dick for a bit?
If someone's feelings are hurt by my patent dislike of this game, prepped by dreadful previews and then validated by extensive gameplay / design experience, that's not really my problem? And I'm going to respond to challenges toward my criticism from people who haven't even played the game with dismissal, because that's what you do when you're presented with uninformed opinions. If you want to tell me I'm wrong, go ahead. I'd even welcome a reason why I'm wrong beyond "The internet doesn't like this game". But there's no good reason why I should censor myself.

This thread is tilting, as all threads of its kind do, towards a "entertainment is about fun and opinions are arbitrary" handwave, so perhaps someone should just pull the trigger on that. It's either that or "if you didn't like the game why did you buy it", which, if those are your two options, there's really no way to critically appraise anything a geek enjoys.
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 15:23 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #512 on: 15 Mar 2011, 15:24 »

John, there has been one or two comments concerning the quality of the game other than you and JC and you accused BK, who just said what he felt like the complaints surrounding it sounded like "change is bad" (which to be fair, in the gaming community is not an uncommon problem), of "White Knighting."
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 15:28 by ackblom12 »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #513 on: 15 Mar 2011, 15:56 »

I wasn't referring to BK with that post, I was referring to Ozy, because that's what he's been doing in this thread. It's sort of annoying when a litany of flaws in DA2 is met with "there's a conspiracy against Bioware!", because it is, in the real sense of the word, an ad hominem attack - It's a way of invalidating criticism without really addressing it. It's not really borne out of any particular fondness for the game itself or belief in its quality, it's based from a love of Bioware (and a fondness for forum sport). It's eternally irritating to me that geek culture is stuck in this fucking all-or-nothing quagmire, where the only true and sincere way to look at a piece of art or media is as either entirely perfect or entirely execrable. So when I criticise the characterization or the romance system in Mass Effect 2 it must be because I hate Mass Effect 2 and Bioware, despite the fact that I have consistently praised the game's efficient character and inventory design (which, humorously enough, vast swaths of the internet disliked such that we'll probably see attempts to fix what isn't broken in ME3).

I was not looking forward to this game, that much is true. Sometimes what you expect to happen, happens. DA2 confirmed all the fears I had about it. It isn't a vendetta or a conspiracy between me and the internet. I think David Gaider is a hack but I was willing to let DA2 be great because I've been wrong before! Sadly DA2 is not great. It isn't even all that good. Sometimes what you dread turns out to be great. This was not one of those times.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #514 on: 15 Mar 2011, 18:19 »

john do you actually hate DAII? so far i think like the worst thing i can say about it is that it is a stumbling series of mishaps that still turns out to be fairly interesting story-wise, relatively fun to play, and compelling enough to keep going. it's like a pot roast that you left in the oven at 250˚ for two extra hours without even realizing it and so when you pull it out it's kind of overly tender and its juices have made it go from moist to straight-up damp but it's tasty enough and the leftovers you can just chop up into hash so you eat it anyways and just resolve to do better next time
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #515 on: 15 Mar 2011, 18:42 »

I find it almost entirely devoid of anything I'd call "great". It even lacks Bioware's greatest strength (IMO), which is an effective sense of pace. I'd compare it more to a green curry I tried to make recently - I slapped all the ingredients together haphazardly and only had coconut cream, not coconut milk. Everything (except the chicken) came out stiff and undercooked and the lack of coconut oil to hold the sauce together led to its evaporation into a slightly spicy, greasy oil.

So DA2 was a poorly planned concoction of undercooked elements that failed to come together in a coherent or satisfying way. All that was left was sadness.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #516 on: 15 Mar 2011, 19:12 »

I guess I was going to post something about how people wanted one game but got a completely different one, and so their expectations of what the Dragon Age standard was, weren't met, etc.

But I think we've probably been over that a few times in this thread already >:
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #517 on: 15 Mar 2011, 19:39 »

For giggles, here is semi-infamous AV Club commenter ZODIAC MOTHERFUCKER's review of the game:
Quote from: ZMF
HORSESHIT. THIS GAME IS A STRAIGHTUP DISAPPOINTMENT ESPECIALLY AFTER THE ALLENCOMPASSING OWNAGE OF MASS EFFECT 2 AND IM GONNA BREAK DOWN WHY BUT FIRST LET ME JUST SAY THAT I AM A HUGE FUCKING FAN OF DRAGON AGE ORIGINS I PLAYED THROUGH THAT SHIT FOUR TIMES. ALSO I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE GAMEPLAY IN THIS GAME BECAUSE IM AN XBOX MAN SO ALL THAT PC WHINING DONT MEAN A FUCK TO ME. SO HERE ARE MY BIGGEST ISSUES

1. REUSED ENVIRONMENTS. ITS 20FUCKING11 AND THERE IS NO FUCKING EXCUSE FOR USING THE SAME FUCKING LAYOUT FOR SEVEN DIFFERENT MANSIONS. BUT JUST AS BAD IS SENDING ME BACK TO THE WOUNDED COAST FOR THE SIXTEENTH FUCKING TIME TO KILL SOME BANDITS. LIKE WHY NOT THE MOUNTAINS OR THE DEEPROADS OR AN ISLAND OFF THE COAST OR STARKHAVEN OR THE FADE OR MAYBE A JOG BACK TO FERELDEN? NOPE BACK TO THE FUCKING WOUNDED COAST. AGAIN. SERIOUSLY AFTER A WEEK OF PLAYING I KNOW THE FUCKING WOUNDED COAST BETTER THAN I KNOW MY APARTMENT BUILDING. ID SAY THERE ARE LITERALLY EIGHTY PERCENT FEWER LOCATIONS THAN IN ORIGINS AND THATS EVEN BEFORE THE DLC. TOTAL RUSHJOB BULLSHIT WHICH BRINGS ME TO NUMBER TWO

2. YOU BASICALLY NEVER LEAVE THE FUCKING CITY. AND DONT GIVE ME THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT STORYTELLING WHATEVER BECAUSE WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT ITD BE LIKE IF DRAGON AGE ORIGINS NEVER LEFT DENERIM. NO REASON THEY COULDNT HAVE MADE KIRKWALL A MORE VARIED AND EXPANSIVE PLACE WITH NUMEROUS LOCALES INSTEAD OF SENDING ME TO THE SAME FUCKING FOUR SECTIONS OF TOWN EVERY SINGLE QUEST. HEY HAWKE GO TO LOWTOWN. HEY HAWKE THEYRE IN DARKTOWN. HEY HAWKE THEY WENT TO THE GALLOWS. HEY HAWKE YOU JUST MISSED THEM THEY RAN OFF TO THE WOUNDED COAST. BIG FUCKING SURPRISE. AND WHAT THE FUCK DOESNT THE CHAMPION OF KIRKWALL EVER HAVE BUSINESS ELSEWHERE? ME I AINT THE CHAMPION OF SHIT BUT I STILL MANAGE TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF DETROIT ONCE IN AWHILE BUT APPARENTLY OUR BIG HARD FUCKING HERO HAWKE DESPITE HIS FABULOUS FUCKING WEALTH IS HAPPY STARING AT THE SAME FUCKING BRICKS FOR SEVEN YEARS STRAIGHT

3. THE CHARACTERS BLOW. ASIDE FROM VARRIC AND BETHANY I DIDNT GIVE A GOOD FUCK ABOUT ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. COMPARED TO ALISTAIR DUNCAN STEN LOGHAIN LELIANA AND MORRIGAN THIS IS ONE WEAK FUCKING CREW. AND MUCH LIKE AWAKENINGS THEY DECIDE TO BRING BACK ONE OF THE WACKEST MEMBERS OF YOUR POSSE FROM THE PREVIOUS GAME. SERIOUSLY FUCK YOU AND YOUR FUCKING CAT ANDERS. AND STOP FUCKING HITTING ON ME YOU SKEEVY MOTHERFUCKER

4. STORY IS HALFASSED. SPOILERS AHEAD: ALL THIS AWESOME SETUP WITH THE QUNARI THAT FEELS LIKE A DIPLOMATIC TIMEBOMB AND ITS ALL FOR SHIT. FLEMETH SENDING YOU ON A QUEST THAT COMES TO NOTHING. AND YEAH A CLIFFHANGER ENDING? THIS IS HALF A FUCKING GAME AT BEST

5. FIRST DAY DLC. NO FUCKING EXCUSE FOR THIS EVER AND EVEN THE FANBOYS CANT DENY THAT. GREAT BIG CASHGRAB FUCK YOU TO THE FANS

6. BULLSHIT SIDEQUESTS. WHAT THE FUCK I FIND SOMEBODYS MISSING URN AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO FIND WHO IT BELONGS TO AND THEY GIVE MY A PALTRY FIFTY FUCKING DOLLARS AND THATS A QUEST? WHAT THE FUCK? AND WHATS WITH ALL THE JUNK IM COLLECTING ANYWAY? WHY THE FUCK IS THE WEALTHY CHAMPION OF A CITY SORTING THROUGH PEOPLES FUCKING GARBAGE PICKING OUT MOTH EATEN SCARVES THAT ARE WORTH ALL OF SEVEN CENTS? FUCK I MEAN IT AINT LIKE ELDER SCROLLS WHERE THAT KIND OF BULLSHIT IS JUST LAYING AROUND EVERYWHERE THERE ARE ACTUAL TREASURE CHESTS FILLED WITH BROKEN SWORDS AND TORN TROUSERS THAT CLOG UP MY INVENTORY AND ARE COMPLETELY USELESS. JUST A REALLY FUCKING WEIRD MECHANIC

BOTTOM LINE THEY SHOULDVE JUST CALLED THIS SHIT DRAGON AGE KIRKWALL AND RELEASED IT FOR $39.99 AS A KIND OF PRECURSOR TO AN EPIC ALLTIME AWESOME FULLBLOWN INSTALLMENT IN THE DRAGON AGE SERIES. INSTEAD THIS SHIT FEELS LIKE THAT DIRECT TO VIDEO ROADHOUSE SEQUEL THAT HAD WILL PATTON INSTEAD OF SWAYZE. LOST A LOT OF FAITH IN BIOWARE WITH THIS
"No homo"s aside, he probably captures most of the solid arguments against DA2's design.

I think the single biggest thing they could've done with DA2 to make it better would have been to create a number of substantial sidequests ala ME2. As it is the entire first 12-15 hours of the game (even companion quests!) consists entirely of the tiny little quests that you find within the city hubs of ME2 - Lots of investigating whether or not the presidium lakes have fish.
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 19:46 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #518 on: 15 Mar 2011, 20:14 »

I guess I was going to post something about how people wanted one game but got a completely different one, and so their expectations of what the Dragon Age standard was, weren't met, etc.

But I think we've probably been over that a few times in this thread already >:

My problem with this summary is that it neatly sidesteps the question of whether this other game is any good. Personally, I don't really think it is so far, even if some bits are fairly charming-- as has been pointed out repeatedly now, there's simply too much Jade Empire in here. Johnny's Streets of Rage comparison seems apt, and as a former WoW player I'd say the PC controls at least give things a definite MMO feel. As a former hardcore raider, you'd think I'd be OK with that, but so far I am not. The problem is really quite simple: At its best, WoW is a game that is ultimately about teamwork, communication, repetition, failure and eventually success. You encounter a scripted series of events mingled with semi-random effects and you learn what things do and put your heads together to compensate for what your group can and cannot do in the encounter. There are consequences for fuck ups, dying is considered routine, and eventually you learn. Unfortunately, Dragon Age 2 copped the mechanics but not the context, which is basically the exact opposite of what any game designer should have learned from Blizzard's money making machine. So in DA2 you certainly can put some thought into how you use your cooldowns and such, but ultimately there is precious little reward or reason why you should do so. The game doesn't even really go out of its way to acknowledge how awesome you're doing Tony Hawk or Bulletstorm style, so why not just mash like crazy? I don't mean to come across as the sort of guy who thinks every game needs to be ball bustingly hard or anything, but at the same time I'd like to feel like my decisions count for something.
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2011, 20:35 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #519 on: 15 Mar 2011, 22:48 »

Ok, that ZMF review was super-difficult to read. 

Is the game seriously almost entirely urban?  I've heard that a lot of the game is set inside a city, how much of that is true? 

And honestly, I thought the characters in Origins were unbelievably bland, how are the sequel's managing to live up to that?
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #520 on: 15 Mar 2011, 23:18 »

It isn't entirely urban. There are three hub areas within the city - hightown, lowtown, darktown, plus the Chantry stronghold called the Gallows.

There are two areas outside the city - Sundermount, and the Wounded Coast. I think there are also two stock "mountain" and "coast" area layouts that are used for various other things. There is also a portion of the game that takes place within the Deep Roads.

As you've probably read innumerable times, the majority of interior areas are recycled.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #521 on: 15 Mar 2011, 23:33 »

It isn't entirely urban. There are three hub areas within the city - hightown, lowtown, darktown,

Deliberately?
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #522 on: 15 Mar 2011, 23:43 »

Did they deliberately use those names? Yes, yes they did.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #523 on: 15 Mar 2011, 23:56 »

Also I gotta say that Aveline is really growing on me. At first I thought she was neglected, writing-wise, but it's starting to look a lot like understatement. It's nice to have a strong female character who's both un-romanceable and not a blowhard hiding deep insecurities.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #524 on: 16 Mar 2011, 00:01 »

cosigned – best characters are probably varric, aveline, bethany, in that order. isabela is actually not entirely terrible but i honestly can't stand to look at her totally silly design so like i can't have her near me at any time. makes miranda look tasteful
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #525 on: 16 Mar 2011, 00:40 »


My problem with this summary is that it neatly sidesteps the question of whether this other game is any good.

It's fair game to point out flaws in comparison to similar mechanics, but I find it difficult to weight all its flaws and strengths to summate everything into an evaluation of whether the game is "any good" or "pretty bad" and so on. I suppose that's why half of the people I know really love Dragon Age II and the other half loath it (in comparison to Origins, at the very least), to put it in simplified terms.

I have to admit my personal preference for II's changes came out of the fact that I was disappointed by what I was playing in Origins, which might just be an indicator of the sort of gamer I am, but perhaps I've weighted the flaws and strengths differently to determine how good or bad the game was as a whole. It's one of the only reasons I can think of that people could be so divided about this game.

Also, out of curiosity, are you playing a console version or something (or a PC version with auto-attack off, idk I haven't foraged very much into my Options menu)? Because not once in this game have I approached anything resembling button-mashing.

Also I gotta say that Aveline is really growing on me. At first I thought she was neglected, writing-wise, but it's starting to look a lot like understatement. It's nice to have a strong female character who's both un-romanceable and not a blowhard hiding deep insecurities.

I actually really love Aveline as a character, despite the complete ho-hum nature of the introductory 10 minutes of the game (ie. I couldn't give a two-shits about Wesley). At the very least, she's probably the most inoffensive character of the whole lot.

Especially when half the tits in this game are uncomfortably huge. No, seriously, designers. Corsets are not an excuse for endangering the women's centre of gravities.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #526 on: 16 Mar 2011, 00:56 »

You can't turn off auto-attack in the PC version. For consoles, EA apparently mastered a non-final build of the game or fudged the option while mastering (somehow) and the auto-attack button is disabled. As far as I'm aware that's still the case. So yeah, you have to continually press A to attack on the console version of the game. At least for now.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #527 on: 16 Mar 2011, 01:40 »

Okay that is pretty straight out stupid in that aspect. I do appreciate them trying to put a connection between an attack and the actual press of a button, but I can see how that can be pretty grating for someone used to an auto-attack.

EDIT: While I think the color palette and the overarching design of everything is probably a step up from what I saw in Origins, I'm really starting to get miffed with the amount of copypasta in this game, especially when it comes to environments. I'm not usually a stickler for detail in the broad sense of the term, but some of these dungeons I've gone through are direct facsimiles of ones I've gone through before, and that's nigh-unforgivable.

It's like having a racing game call a mirror track an entirely new one.
« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2011, 01:45 by satsugaikaze »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #528 on: 16 Mar 2011, 02:06 »

I want to say it would've been better to have copy-pasted environs be actually the same space, but even factoring the span of years the game has, that would severely limit their scope. It's baffling. Was 2 years really not enough time to produce more environments, factoring in their non-interactive nature?

Then again, the city's #1 employers seem to be highwaymen gangs and apostate cabals, and you must kill something like a thousand people within city limits, so breaking realism's not really an issue.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #529 on: 16 Mar 2011, 02:38 »

Sorta related - Bio is open to a Jade Empire sequel. IIRC, JE2 was in production at some point and is the only game that Bioware ever canceled in such a state (I'm sure there have been many aborted pre-production games).

Meanwhile, back at the Bioboards... They've split up the DA2 forums into registered and unregistered portions, and in order to post in the registered forum you need to have a copy of DA2 linked to your account. The problem with this is that any sort of criticism of the game results in an EA account ban which, quite controversially, locks you out of playing DA2 until you go through an appeals process of some sort.
« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2011, 03:07 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #530 on: 16 Mar 2011, 03:04 »

Are we talking any and all criticism, or metafilter-level illiterate hatetrolling?
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #531 on: 16 Mar 2011, 03:14 »

There were a lot of complaints about lockings and bans in otherwise reasonable threads back in the old conglomerated forum. The problem seems to be that threads expressing honest criticism or disappointment quickly devolve into arguments, some involving the OP, some not, but the OP would get banned for trolling. Some of the mods (Stanley Woo, mostly) are widely regarded to be dickheads, but looking over the (very young) registered forum, the only person locking looks to be Chris Priestly and he's left a number of negative threads up. At this juncture, it looks like people are safe. I imagine they'll be employing a light touch until EA fixes the lockout issue, because there's no better way to stir up a biblical PR shitstorm than unilaterally removing the ability of paying customers to play your game. *ed - Rock Paper Shotgun has a story on it. EA reserves the right to lock games out in its fine print, but they're going into damage control anyway, as they should.

Anyway, here's a video someone made of a DA2 street fight.
« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2011, 03:26 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #534 on: 16 Mar 2011, 12:10 »

Also, out of curiosity, are you playing a console version or something (or a PC version with auto-attack off, idk I haven't foraged very much into my Options menu)? Because not once in this game have I approached anything resembling button-mashing.

Console; I swiped my brother's xbox since he's so busy with college anyway. Honestly though, what I played of the demo on PC didn't make me feel like it'd be much better for the reasons KvP outlined. Having autoattack would be great and all, but for me the primary problem seems to be that for rogues and warriors, at least, it doesn't particularly matter when you use the vast majority of abilities. To go WoW nerd here again for a moment, warriors and especially rogues work like PvE Ret Paladins did right before Blizzard realized the design was a joke in WotLK and went back to the drawing board. Basically, everything is on a cooldown, so often times you'll only have one or two abilities to choose from at a time and typically the safest and fastest way to win a fight is to simply activate every ability you have as they become available. It is virtually always better to be doing something than nothing, and oftentimes there's only one applicable something for you to do. Bleh.
« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2011, 12:16 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #535 on: 16 Mar 2011, 16:06 »

Really? I actually find choosing the timing of when to do certain rogue skills like Evade, Backstab and other skills to obscure the character do a fine job of literally dodging and cancelling enemy attacks that otherwise would have hit me. I feel there's more strategy than you give it credit for. I wouldn't know about the Warrior class, as it seems to have always been a class that you could just sic on the enemy to do their own thing to soak up damage, but at the very least there's still a big importance in the timing for the rogue class, especially when the spatial aspect of battles actually has an effect on how attacks land.

I think the battles that stand out the most are the ones involving mages and minibosses, basically enemies that hit hard and throw a helluva lot of spells. It's a lot more economical if you save a Rush or Miasmic Flask for a mage when they're charging a spell, or avoid using Backstab or Evade until an ogre charges you or does a Slam. You have a point, though, as most standard enemies fold like paper at some point in the game, but on the harder difficulties (which imo everyone should be playing on because Normal DAII is like Casual Origins), you get a lot more out of skills if you're selective about how and when to use them.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #536 on: 16 Mar 2011, 18:25 »

I dunno, the Warrior skills in DA:O were pretty good.  I seem to remember using Alistair as a decent tank but also using his shield bash and assault skills to good use, especially against frozen enemies.  There were tactical decisions there to be made if you could be bothered.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #537 on: 16 Mar 2011, 18:36 »

Yeah but like, in Origins it was possible to actually die and stuff. Cranking up the difficultly would probably help, I guess, but man, DAII normal is piss easy.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #538 on: 16 Mar 2011, 21:44 »

I got so much pimped out gear because of all the preorder stuff and free stuff I set it to hard to start with.  It's just a shame that I got two sets of special plate mail that apparently nobody in my party will use.  I feel lame just selling the blood dragon armor for extra scratch but I don't know what else to do with it.

« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2011, 21:51 by Caleb »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #539 on: 17 Mar 2011, 00:28 »

I think like what a lot of reviews were saying, anyone who didn't have a problem with Origins difficulty should be playing DAII on the harder ones. I had a ball dying all the time in Origins (on hard difficulty), but in Dragon Age II I think I've definitively died 2 times out of 37 hours of my game on Hard difficulty.

And honestly I don't mind. It's a refreshing change.  :psyduck:
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #540 on: 17 Mar 2011, 23:05 »

hahaha the end of act II is unbelievably fucking infuriating
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #541 on: 17 Mar 2011, 23:20 »

Infuriating enough that gritting my teeth through the meat of Act II will be worth it? I've hit the beginning of it and stalled. I'm bored by the fighting, and I know it won't change.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #542 on: 17 Mar 2011, 23:44 »

here's what i will say: i guess if you haven't pumped your friendship with isabela (read: if you're a dual-wielding rogue who like why would you ever even put isabela in your party then) or if you aren't romancing her apparently then either a) make the fuck sure the arishok likes you b) bring fenris with you on the last mission just in case. this is what i've found out is the thing. im seriously dissatisfied with this bullshit
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #543 on: 17 Mar 2011, 23:48 »

Oh yeah, I heard about that. Did you have that thing happen at the end of Act 1?

*e - For the discerning PC gamer, it looks like somebody made a Isabela white-ification mod.
« Last Edit: 17 Mar 2011, 23:51 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #544 on: 17 Mar 2011, 23:56 »

Also man, from what I hear, you are going to love Anders come Act 3.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #545 on: 18 Mar 2011, 03:45 »

What the fuck is even going on in that screenshot.  This is a game that came out a month ago from one of the biggest developers in gaming?
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #546 on: 18 Mar 2011, 03:59 »

What the fuck is even going on in that screenshot.  This is a game that came out a month ago from one of the biggest developers in gaming?
In terms of visuals? There was a separate, manual-install high-res texture pack for the PC that helped a little bit, but yeah, I remember DA:O being really gorgeous texture-wise (check it) whereas this... well, peek at that crate on the right. I chalk it up to the engine change.

As for the UI, it looks cheap but it succeeds at being unobtrusive. I haven't figured out how to use it when you've got 10+ abilities and items, though.

As for the half-naked elf, that's a mod, since you're not allowed a different body model in the vanilla game.
« Last Edit: 18 Mar 2011, 04:03 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #547 on: 19 Mar 2011, 13:48 »

In a stunning reversal of modding etiquette, someone has made a mod that adds pants to Isabela's model.
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #548 on: 19 Mar 2011, 14:00 »

Also FYI:
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There is a bug with regards to attack speed and damage reduction in DA2. Players will often times find themselves attacking much, much slower, or end up having Damage Reduction in the negatives.

This is related to Isabela's and Sebastian's 'friendship' talents, which give Hawke +5% attack speed and +5% damage reduction, respectively.

It seems that every time these talents are removed, they end up stripping attack speed and damage reduction off of Hawke.

In short, once you reach Friendship with Isabela and Sebastian, each time you remove them from your party, use a Maker's Sigh, or are revived after falling, you take a penalty to the respective stat. Because there is no value shown, players will not notice these effects until Hawke is attacking in slow motion or notices the negative damage reduction in the character profile.

As of now, there is no way to fix this. The only work-around is to simply not build up the friendship bar to the point where the talents activate.
Simply! (also FYI once you reach the limit of friendship / rivalry on the bar, it locks in place)

This is a particularly fucked bug because of the vaguely drawn events that Johnny alludes to at the end of Act 2. As far as I know, it plays out to the player's benefit if you have certain friendship bars maxed. Now there's some choice and consequence!

*e - for PC players, you can use a DA:O savegame editor to negate the bug effects. How? No one knows!
« Last Edit: 19 Mar 2011, 14:08 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons
« Reply #549 on: 19 Mar 2011, 14:28 »

Holy shit.

The Dragon Age team isn't going to touch Mass Effect, right?
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