Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Claire the Witch

2 (4.7%)

Penelope gets intimidated

1 (2.3%)

Cosette gets the once-over

0 (0%)

Doggy Shampoo and Doggy Butt Cream!

6 (14%)

Cosette re-dyes her hair!

2 (4.7%)

"Crypto-flaxen conspiracy"

4 (9.3%)

Tomahawks and Judo holds

10 (23.3%)

Adorable Hannelore!

9 (20.9%)

Morning bowel movements

2 (4.7%)

Dora's speech

1 (2.3%)

"How would I still be employed if she was that much of a hardass?"

6 (14%)

Total Members Voted: 33

[jwhouk]

Comic-Con has come and gone (and thankfully Jeph didn't lose an eye in the process).

Let us now discuss the newest member of our ensemble cast: RIPPY THE RAZOR!  

[jwhouk]

Early comic is EARLY. 

Anyone else notice how similar this Claire is to Cosette, at least dressing-wise?

[zagraf]

Oh my. Jeph is going to get so many butthurt emails from the Fluffy Bunny crowd over this strip. "How dare you portray a member of the Craft as a cantankerous old bitch rather than gentle and saintly, blah blah, we are not Satanists, blah blah, never again the Burning Times, blah blah, Threefold Law, blah blah..."

(Note: the above is with reference to humourless pseudo-Wiccans, not the ones who are well-rounded, can laugh at themselves, and aren't constantly on the defensive about their faith because they know it well enough they don't have to be.)

[Is it cold in here?]

Back to "the timid, easily-manipulated Penelope I thought I knew", I see.

[jwhouk]

...I'd find it funny if it was Cosette's Aunt.

[HiFranc]

Am I the only one who thinks that Penelope may even start exploring Wicca?  Either that or she'll become a born again Christian.

If she's never found anyone "spooky" then she's going to start questioning everything.

[westrim]

Am I the only one who thinks that Penelope may even start exploring Wicca?  Either that or she'll become a born again Christian.

If she's never found anyone "spooky" then she's going to start questioning everything.

No. Let me clarify that: No, she's not going to go spiritual on us in any way, shape, or form, or; no.

[jwhouk]

I always thought Pen had an agnostic/atheist bent. I vaguely recall that she mentioned her parents were strict church-goers, or some sort.

[Nightson]

"There's no such thing as curses, she just has bad luck."

Oh Penelope, why must you be the vocal atheist when you don't bother to think things through.

[akronnick]

Am I the only one who thinks that Penelope may even start exploring Wicca?  Either that or she'll become a born again Christian.

If she's never found anyone "spooky" then she's going to start questioning everything.

I think we should be more worried that Faye will take a turn to the unconventional after today's strip.

She was practically down on one knee begging to be taken to Alderaan to learn the ways of The Force so she could become a Jedi, like her father before her.

Or maybe I've just been spending too much time vicariously cos-playing through all the Comic-Con related tweets I've been reading all weekend.

[Delirium]

Back to "the timid, easily-manipulated Penelope I thought I knew", I see.

Well, the two are not mutually exclusive. Claire's just the alpha female in this situation. Kind of helps in her profession.

[Kugai]

It's Gandalfs aunt!!!     

[Is it cold in here?]

Pennelope's religious views set forth without ambiguity.

[westrim]

"There's no such thing as curses, she just has bad luck."

Oh Penelope, why must you be the vocal atheist when you don't bother to think things through.

Because there's a mountain of scientific evidence for curses, right?

I'm not Penelope. I'm fine when people take things on faith, so long as they recognize that it is faith.

[Karilyn]

Oh my. Jeph is going to get so many butthurt emails from the Fluffy Bunny crowd over this strip. "How dare you portray a member of the Craft as a cantankerous old bitch rather than gentle and saintly, blah blah, we are not Satanists, blah blah, never again the Burning Times, blah blah, Threefold Law, blah blah..."

Really?  Maybe I should send him an email from the Semi-Morbid Bunny crowd over how much I liked the character.

Actually I didn't realize Dora or Claire were Wiccans.  I thought the implication was closer to Claire being a generic traditional witch, as opposed to a neopegan Wiccan.  After all, Wiccan's don't hold copywrite to the word witch, and any occultist could call themselves a witch if they want.  I've never associated Wiccans with anything other than a fuzzy bunny mentality.  All the Wiccans I've ever meet could best be described as marshmallows at best, and at worst fluffy bubbly bimbos.  Think like Legally Blonde sorta thing.

"White magic!  We only use white magic!  Healing!  Good stuff!  You know?  Helping people!  We most definitely do not use black magic to curse people with migraine headaches and unusual rashes"

White magic?  Where's your robe?

[Akima]

"Young lady, you may not share my belief system, but I'll kindly ask you to respect it in my presence".

What? Like you're respecting Penelope's skeptical viewpoint in her presence, eh? At least Penny didn't threaten/poke/strike you with a stick! *

* Claire's behaviour would probably (IANAL) constitute assault in Australia, even if she did not actually touch Penelope with her cane, because her act clearly caused Penelope to feel apprehension. If she did touch her, it would be battery too.

[snubnose]

... isnt that the old lady from the Sexshop ?

SCNR 

[Binary]

"There's no such thing as curses, she just has bad luck."

Oh Penelope, why must you be the vocal atheist when you don't bother to think things through.

Because there's a mountain of scientific evidence for curses, right?

I'm not sure that's what Nightson meant. I think he was referring to the self-contradiction of Penelope believing in luck, but not in curses. They're BOTH superstitions.



Also, now Hannelore is going to be working at Coffee of Doom she will need a new T-shirt.

I'm O-CoD-elicious!

[Border Reiver]

There's limits to respecting other's belief systems Akima - when someone starts off with being very rude about yours you don't have to go - "I respect your disbelief in mine, but I would appreciate you not being so rude about it."  Where I come from that's called being a sap - if you don't believe in something strongly enough to stand up for it, you really don't believe in it that strongly.  

And that is simply a gesture with the cane to emphasize her point.  The assault comes later.  If the tea doesn't.

[lisavilisa]

"Young lady, you may not share my belief system, but I'll kindly ask you to respect it in my presence".

What? Like you're respecting Penelope's skeptical viewpoint in her presence, eh? At least Penny didn't threaten/poke/strike you with a stick! *

* Claire's behaviour would probably (IANAL) constitute assault in Australia, even if she did not actually touch Penelope with her cane, because her act clearly caused Penelope to feel apprehension. If she did touch her, it would be battery too.

Claire didn't disrespect Penolpe's viewpoint, she just asked her to be respectful of it.

Australia has a really thin definition of assault, Claire didn't even threaten Penolpe.

[jwhouk]

Pennelope's religious views set forth without ambiguity.

Yep, that is definitely unambiguous. And I hit it spot on with her "religious upbringing".

[matachin]

I must have the opposite experiences of most everyone here regarding people like Claire.

However, knowing that one of his two fanboy moments was for Brandon Sanderson and that I have both the first book of the Mistborn & the twelfth of the "They nailed my coffin shut but you're still reading" on the stand isn't that comfortable.   Being stuck on a specific book for near six months due to work has got me a bit testy - if Claire starts acting like those women I'm going to giggle for a day or two before tracking Jeph down for a sound beating with the entire unending series.

I'll give him Mieville though.  I haven't read anything past The Scar, and am pissed this summer hasn't given me the chance to catch up.

[Akima]

And that is simply a gesture with the cane to emphasize her point.  The assault comes later.  If the tea doesn't.

Shoving a stick into someone's chest (looking at it again, it really does look as if it makes contact), or even brandishing it at someone sufficiently vigorously to cause them to rear back as Penelope does, goes well beyond a gesture IMHO.

Claire didn't disrespect Penolpe's viewpoint, she just asked her to be respectful of it. Australia has a really thin definition of assault, Claire didn't even threaten Penolpe.

Tastes vary of course, but I would call poking a stick at or into someone's chest more threatening than respectful. Certainly if someone deliberately poked their cane into my chest, I would regard it as threatening. Australia's legal definition of assault is essentially the same as the British one. Assault is behaviour that causes a person to apprehend violence. An actual act of violence is not assault, but battery, a different and separate offense. Generally speaking, laying hands (or sticks) on another person without their consent or lawful reason is risky behaviour.

Penelope was rude, and I hope I would not have made the same remark, so I have no problem with Claire's verbal response. But taking it to a physical level, especially with someone in no position to respond in kind to an elderly woman? Not a nice lady.

[Mr_Rose]

And that is simply a gesture with the cane to emphasize her point.  The assault comes later.  If the tea doesn't.

Shoving a stick into someone's chest (looking at it again, it really does look as if it makes contact), or even brandishing it at someone sufficiently vigorously to cause them to rear back as Penelope does, goes well beyond a gesture IMHO.

I think the problem comes from people getting Assault (the legal term) mixed up with Battery (again, legal term) in their minds, mostly because they have never really had to deal with either in a legal context and are generally working off what's said on cop shows. Which generally contain hilarious amounts of bullshit, such as the mythological right to "one phone-call" that started in the USA and has migrated across the world as shows like TJ Hooker get re-run.

"There's no such thing as curses, she just has bad luck."

Oh Penelope, why must you be the vocal atheist when you don't bother to think things through.

Well said. Substituting one slightly milder superstition for another does not free you of superstitious thought.

... isnt that the old lady from the Sexshop ?

No. Entirely the wrong body type and facial structure. Also this one either has a stoop or is very short.

Actually I didn't realize Dora or Claire were Wiccans.  I thought the implication was closer to Claire being a generic traditional witch, as opposed to a neopegan Wiccan.  After all, Wiccan's don't hold copywrite to the word witch, and any occultist could call themselves a witch if they want.  I've never associated Wiccans with anything other than a fuzzy bunny mentality.  All the Wiccans I've ever meet could best be described as marshmallows at best, and at worst fluffy bubbly bimbos.  Think like Legally Blonde sorta thing.

...have you ever actually watched Legally Blonde?

[ecstaticjoy]

Faye looks so cute today!!

[pwhodges]

Shoving a stick into someone's chest (looking at it again, it really does look as if it makes contact), or even brandishing it at someone sufficiently vigorously to cause them to rear back as Penelope does, goes well beyond a gesture IMHO.

I find it sad that people think that such a gesture (even if it makes contact) amounts to anything more than emphasis; something to do with the modern world, I suppose.

[Is it cold in here?]

Pennelope thought it was more than emphasis. Look at her physical and verbal reaction. If Claire did not intend that reaction, she would have apologized for alarming Pennelope.

She didn't shrink away like that in 751.

If Claire wants respect, she can damn well get it the old-fashioned way.

[Mr_Rose]

Faye looks so cute today!!

Wait, today Monday or Today comic-time? I mean, both are true, but I was wondering about the specifics.

[Karilyn]

Actually I didn't realize Dora or Claire were Wiccans.  I thought the implication was closer to Claire being a generic traditional witch, as opposed to a neopegan Wiccan.  After all, Wiccan's don't hold copywrite to the word witch, and any occultist could call themselves a witch if they want.  I've never associated Wiccans with anything other than a fuzzy bunny mentality.  All the Wiccans I've ever meet could best be described as marshmallows at best, and at worst fluffy bubbly bimbos.  Think like Legally Blonde sorta thing.

...have you ever actually watched Legally Blonde?

Unfortunately yes.  I was referring to her pink bimbo behavior.  Even though she validated herself as a lawyer (through a hilarious stupid, and almost dues-ex plot twist that ended up not using any lawyering skills at all), that still didn't make her any less of a pink obsessed stereotypical blonde bimbo with all the personality of a rock.

Which is more or less how all the wiccans I've yet met seemed to act.  Creepy perky if you ask me.  It seems to be some sorta fad that is running amuck cause it's "Like I'm like totally a wiccan, cause it's like totally cool to be a white witch!  Like Totally!"  I don't know if they think they are trying to be like Glinda the Good Witch of the North or what, but it's annoying really.

EDIT:  On second thought, maybe comparing them to like that cartoon Totally Spies would've been more accurate than Legally Blonde.  Oh well.

[HiFranc]

[...]

I think he was referring to the self-contradiction of Penelope believing in luck, but not in curses. They're BOTH superstitions.

This reminds me of an interview I heard on the radio a few years ago.  The interviewee had studied "lucky" and "unlucky" people.  He found that those that were unlucky saw the costs of a situation whereas those that were lucky saw the opportunities.  He used some hypothetical examples to see how his subjects would react.  The one that was mentioned in the interview I listed to was something to the effect of:

"You go to the bank but the bank gets robbed and you get shot in the arm.  How do you feel about that."

Unlucky people said things to the effect of: "Just my luck to go in the bank on the day bank robbers were going to turn up."

Lucky people said things to the effect of: "At least it wasn't my head."   One of them even stated, "Great!  I can sell my story to the papers and make lots of money!"

I'm pretty sure the programme was BBC Radio 4's Start the Week.  A check with a search engine makes me think that the interviewee was Richard Wiseman promoting his, then, new book "The Luck Factor".

[Ghanima Atreides]

I guess "speak softly and carry a big stick" embodies Claire perfectly 

[raoullefere]

I don't know which is worse—Penelope playing IHOP special, or Faye being moron enough to want what looks to be a worse bitch than herself on the team. And is Dora daft enough to still want to hire Cosette after Steve's performance? I mean, my god, she had an out that even he can't doubt, judging by how he was hovering over Cosette during the shopping trip.

Now, if Dora were Hannermom, what she'd be doing right now is working out exactly how to get Cosette hired at, say, Starbuck, not trying to 'cure' her.

[Abattur]

"There's no such thing as curses, she just has bad luck."
Oh Penelope, why must you be the vocal atheist when you don't bother to think things through.

Oh yes, because saying "There's no such thing as curses, she just got bad end of the many variables that happen through life" is so much better.
Or just, you know, call it luck.

Anyhow, great comic!

[Arancaytar]

"There's no such thing as curses, she just has bad luck."

Oh Penelope, why must you be the vocal atheist when you don't bother to think things through.

So... curses are superstition, but there is such a thing as bad luck. Huh.

[Akima]

I find it sad that people think that such a gesture (even if it makes contact) amounts to anything more than emphasis; something to do with the modern world, I suppose.

The cultural acceptability of touching people (especially strangers) for "emphasis" or any other purpose varies a great deal. My Australian and my Chinese selves both say: "Keep your hands to yourself!"

[Border Reiver]

Most British style legal systems (UK, Canada, Australia, US, etc) define assault as the application of force to someone, or the threat of application to someone without their consent.  So yes, holding up a cane and holding it close to someone's chest while making a statement could lead to an arrest for assault.  Battery, at least in Canada and the Commonwealth nations is a term used in civil law when you're suing someone and refers to the physical injury suffered as a result of the assault, and has no bearing in any criminal aspect of the matter.

The question is would a reasonable person feel that the little old lady was threatening you with the stick, or if it was her very assertive/commanding presence that made you feel as if you needed to obey. 

[Shadic]

Poking a stick towards somebody and we're on a discussion about assault on the first page.

Way to take everything far too seriously, QC Board. No wonder Jeph avoids this place like the plague. 

[Delirium]

even if this WAS assault, Pen would never press the issue, so it's completely irrelevant.

[zagraf]

even if this WAS assault, Pen would never press the issue, so it's completely irrelevant.

Plus, given that Faye has yet to suffer any consequence for her rather more unambiguous cases of assault...yeah. (I'm not saying "lock Faye up"; I'm just pointing out that in light of the comic letting her get away with that means that a mere cane-poking isn't going to be an OMG Major Plot Point either.)

[jwhouk]

Poking a stick towards somebody and we're on a discussion about assault on the first page.

Way to take everything far too seriously, QC Board. No wonder Jeph avoids this place like the plague. 

This.

No, seriously: all she did was waggle the cane in front of Pen. If that's anything, it's intimidation. And I suspect that intimidation worked well on Penelope.

[jwhouk]

When we last left our heroes, they were:

Wondering about Dora's "new hire".    - 2 (6.9%)
Wondering if Cosette is going to be "in trouble".    - 11 (37.9%)
Trying to figure out who Tai's going to "hit on" next.    - 2 (6.9%)
Musing over Marigold's "WOW antagonists".    - 1 (3.4%)
Going "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"    - 7 (24.1%)
Eating porridge pancakes and asps - "very dangerous".    - 6 (20.7%)

Total Voters: 29

[westrim]

Maybe Cosette can rub that doggie cream on her asp. 

[Kugai]

I was always of the opinion that Cosette was a Poodle name anyway   

[bicostp]

And let the speculation about Cosette's natural hair color begin... now.

[Akima]

Plus, given that Faye has yet to suffer any consequence for her rather more unambiguous cases of assault...yeah.

A fair point. I should remember to close the molly-guards on my hot-buttons. Sorry.

Dog-bottom cream? Meh... Women put odder things on their faces, including faeces.

[pwhodges]

That's not a prognosis, but a diagnosis - tut, tut.

[jwhouk]

And let the speculation about Cosette's natural hair color begin... now.

Brunette. She's the opposite of Dora.

[raoullefere]

I must tip my hat to Claire for not 'finding' a curse no matter what. But on to more important things. It saddens me that Cosette isn't a natural sky-top*. But I agree it raises the question of her natural color. Would Steve know? Or does she have hardwood floors?



*Sorry, been spending way too much time at Superdickery lately.

[Kugai]

Black hair with a white streak

[Watched Pot]

"There's no such thing as curses, she just has bad luck."
Oh Penelope, why must you be the vocal atheist when you don't bother to think things through.

Oh yes, because saying "There's no such thing as curses, she just got bad end of the many variables that happen through life" is so much better.
Or just, you know, call it luck.

I agree. Anyone who has a problem with Penelope using the word "luck", what suitably atheistic/non-superstitious/scientastic word or term would you have her use instead? I thought it was pretty clear that she's using luck in the "random, uncontrollable occurrences" sense of the word, not the "rabbit's foot/broken mirror" sense.

* Claire's behaviour would probably (IANAL) constitute assault in Australia, even if she did not actually touch Penelope with her cane, because her act clearly caused Penelope to feel apprehension. If she did touch her, it would be battery too.

Well according to Australian law, if you're a woman with small breasts only pedophiles will ever be attracted to you*. Just goes to show how much Australian law is worth.

*That's 100% true, it is not in any way an internet rumor.