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[themacnut]

Personally I like some drama. It keeps a comic from becoming Peanuts or Family Circus. Couples fight, usually over inconsequential shit. Some people, like Dora, are prone to spates of irrational anger.

That's the bottom line here. Jeph has created real human characters (or as close to real as possible), and real humans, even the more level headed ones, have been known to say and do really dumb irrational stuff on occasion. Relationships turn on how you deal with friends and SOs when they're being dumb and irrational too, not just when they're being nice. Yes, today's comic was hard to read, but I say let's wait and see how it turns out before leveling judgment.

Tergon, I stand with you, but I still can't bring myself to touch the dick broom, sorry.

[Moxie]

Think about this: Faye knocked on a door which belongs to both Marten and Dora, but she only asked for Marten. Marten, or Faye, or both, could easily have given Dora a shake when Faye is panicking hard and talked it all out together--Dora -does- do comforting well when given the opportunity. Marten was in his room--he had pants handy, he could easily have pulled a pair on before walking out, though I understand why he didn't. Instead, Dora wakes up in the middle of the night to find her boyfriend gone, she walks out into the living room and sees him hugging a girl she knows he used to like.

To give an alternate perspective: Faye is freaking out and knows she needs to talk to someone. Faye knocks on the door belonging to both Marten and Dora knowing one, the other, or both will help her. Marten awakens by the knock, sleepily opens it, and sees Faye in full panic mode. Faye asks him to talk to her, he immediately says yes, and goes out to talk (in the living room, not Faye's room).
If Dora can sleepily wake up, go out of her room and immediately draw conclusions that may be influenced by her sleepy state, I see no reason why Marten couldn't also have done the same. Sure, his pants may have been handy, but he was sleepy and worried about a very panicked Faye. Sure, they both could have asked for Dora, but Faye just needed someone to talk to (if it had been Dora who answered, I'm not sure they would have thought to wake up Marten either), and again, Marten was just focused on getting his obviously panicked friend calmed down.

I feel like the overall point is that, sure, lots of things could have been done, but no one was in a state to really do them. And really, it shouldn't have mattered. I agree with someone else who posted in here, that Dora makes every issue about herself, whether or not it is. Until she can recognize that, and work on that, she still will, and eventually it is going to alienate herself from everyone (I think).

Everything about her reaction in today's comic left me wondering if I'd really read everything correctly. Someone else posted that Dora hates herself so much/thinks herself unlovable that she'd rather push people away than be hurt by them (when her warped view sees them possibly hurting her). I think there's probably a lot of truth to that. I really hope that she realizes her extreme reaction to the situation is unwarranted, but I'm not sure that's something she can figure out by herself.

[foolsguinea]

OK, now I've had time to think about this more, I think we're reading this wrong. Dora isn't so much scared of what it looks like as what it is. "Emotional cheating," anyone? Dora wanted Marten to move in with her; but instead he convinced her to move in with him & his not-quite-gf Faye. He keeps strong emotional ties to Faye. Faye is in a sense like the older wife in his harem. What Dora sees now isn't silly sexy time, it's heavy emotional stuff, & that gets Dora in the heart.

Also, Dora doesn't know how things went with Angus. It's not inconceivable that a date with Angus could somehow lead Faye into Marten's arms in the same day, in a, "this is who I really need to be with," sense. Dora is being completely rational given the information available to her, & has no reason to trust what from her perspective are Marten & Faye's excuses.

We see it differently, because this scene has so far been from Marten's point of view, & to some degree Faye's, so we're identifying with them. But Dora is operating on limited information, & is behaving rationally, if not nicely.

[bicostp]

But Dora is operating on limited information, & is behaving rationally, if not nicely.

What comic are you reading?

Yes, Dora is running on limited information. However she is actively shutting out all additional information and is instead overreacting to her own conclusions (as always). She's clearly not thinking anything through, and doesn't particularly want to. She's essentially taken the two people she's afraid of getting together and giving them several opportunities to do just that. Locking Marten out of their room for the night, putting Faye on administrative leave (or outright firing her, the dialogue is unclear at this point) so she essentially has more time to spend at home alone with Marten...

This is going to wind up with Dora getting a good yelling-at from a third (fourth?) party. Most likely it's going to be Hannelore, the comic's resident expert on freaking out. (Of all people she'd know that in a panic attack you usually run to the nearest available confidant.)

[Lost Coastlines]

It doesn't bother me that she kicked Marten out of bed.  She's been living there for awhile and paying her share of rent.  If she's mad, she has the right to make him sleep on the couch.

I think telling Faye not to come into work the next day is far worse.  She gave Faye at least a one-day suspension, maybe more.  That's essentially financially penalizing her for a transgression in their personal lives.  If Dora can't stand the sight of Faye for the time being, she's in the position to give herself a paid vacation.  Hopefully when/if she comes to her senses, she'll let Faye make up those hours.

[haikupoet]

But Dora is operating on limited information, & is behaving rationally, if not nicely.

What comic are you reading?

Yes, Dora is running on limited information. However she is actively shutting out all additional information and is instead overreacting to her own conclusions (as always). She's clearly not thinking anything through, and doesn't particularly want to. She's essentially taken the two people she's afraid of getting together and giving them several opportunities to do just that. Locking Marten out of their room for the night, putting Faye on administrative leave (or outright firing her, the dialogue is unclear at this point) so she essentially has more time to spend at home alone with Marten...

This is going to wind up with Dora getting a good yelling-at from a third (fourth?) party. Most likely it's going to be Hannelore, the comic's resident expert on freaking out. (Of all people she'd know that in a panic attack you usually run to the nearest available confidant.)

Agreed. I'd love to see Hannelore light this one up, actually. Dora is half-asleep and being horribly unreasonable; it's in-character for her, but still completely wrong. She really should know better; she knows the Faye-Marten dynamic well enough that she should know she's being a paranoid idiot.

[Merrick]

I thought of something else.

SOMETHING woke Dora up.

The sound of talking. So if it woke her up, and she had time to get dressed (as she appeared to be sleeping nude or at least topless), then surely she would have heard the conversation of 'I really like Angus' and 'I'm glad you're my friend'.

SHE MUST HAVE OVERHEARD THEM TO HAVE GONE IN DAMMIT

SO what the fuck is she playing at? Looking for an excuse to dump Marten? To fire Faye? To TAKE OVER THE APARTMENT FOR HERSELF.


We may never know.



...or just find out tomorrow.

[Kugai]

Is Dora about to go to The Dark Side?


Probably not, but speculation is fun.





Darth Bianchi

[Schmorgluck]

This is going to wind up with Dora getting a good yelling-at from a third (fourth?) party. Most likely it's going to be Hannelore, the comic's resident expert on freaking out. (Of all people she'd know that in a panic attack you usually run to the nearest available confidant.)

Plus, Hannelore can possibly learn from Marigold that the date went well, and contradict Dora if she comes to ramble about it, which could very well interrupt her paranoid fantasy.

[no one special]

(Where the fuck would you GET a broom made of dicks?)

San Francisco, but you can get them shipped to anywhere except Texas, Mississippi and Alabama.

Hey!!  We have better things to do than make useless items such as these!!  We're a major metropolitan area!  They're probably made in Iowa or North Dakota, where there is literally nothing better to do 

[PHDrillSergeant]

If I were in marten's shoes I would most likely end the relationship here. In fact, I HAVE ended a relationship for similar circumstances. A relationship without trust is a relationship waiting to fall apart.

[someone1074]

A part of me wishes this would cause such a rift in their relationship that they would temporarily separate. Just to add a very different dimension to the comic. I mean...so much could be written from that conflict alone.

But yeah, not gonna happen. Dora will probably take a day to relax, then apologize. Everyone talks about their feelings. Everything's resolved. Comic goes back to general humor and the new development of Angus and Faye's blossoming relationship (which is great, imo. I've always championed Angus's growing involvement in the comic).

If nothing else, you have to agree that Jeph is doing a great job. Looking forward to tomorrow's strip.

[Tergon]

San Francisco, but you can get them shipped to anywhere except Texas, Mississippi and Alabama.

Hey!!  We have better things to do than make useless items such as these!!  We're a major metropolitan area!  They're probably made in Iowa or North Dakota, where there is literally nothing better to do 

Oh come on now.  There's no such thing as Iowa.

[Is it cold in here?]

This could get worse.

Imagine attempted helpful intervention from Pintsize.

[Schmorgluck]

This could get worse.

Imagine attempted helpful intervention from Pintsize.

Holy shit! 

[Polonius]

I thought of something else.

SOMETHING woke Dora up.

The sound of talking. So if it woke her up, and she had time to get dressed (as she appeared to be sleeping nude or at least topless), then surely she would have heard the conversation of 'I really like Angus' and 'I'm glad you're my friend'.

SHE MUST HAVE OVERHEARD THEM TO HAVE GONE IN DAMMIT

SO what the fuck is she playing at? Looking for an excuse to dump Marten? To fire Faye? To TAKE OVER THE APARTMENT FOR HERSELF.


We may never know.



...or just find out tomorrow.

I think you're on to something.  When you read Dora's dialogue, she never actually says that she's upset or what she's upset about.  Instead, she focuses instead on how it looks, and how they should have known how it looked.  She's basically saying "You know that I'm a jealous girl with trust issues, so you should have known that if I saw this I'd be upset."  Note that she's not accusing them of anything.

I think it's likely tomorrow's strip is her returning to the room to apologize, but in the meantime, I think that she's angry because she feels she can be, not because something really bothered her.

[westrim]

I thought of something else.

SOMETHING woke Dora up.

The sound of talking. So if it woke her up, and she had time to get dressed (as she appeared to be sleeping nude or at least topless), then surely she would have heard the conversation of 'I really like Angus' and 'I'm glad you're my friend'.

SHE MUST HAVE OVERHEARD THEM TO HAVE GONE IN DAMMIT

SO what the fuck is she playing at? Looking for an excuse to dump Marten? To fire Faye? To TAKE OVER THE APARTMENT FOR HERSELF.


We may never know.



...or just find out tomorrow.

I think you're on to something.  When you read Dora's dialogue, she never actually says that she's upset or what she's upset about.  Instead, she focuses instead on how it looks, and how they should have known how it looked.  She's basically saying "You know that I'm a jealous girl with trust issues, so you should have known that if I saw this I'd be upset."  Note that she's not accusing them of anything.

I think it's likely tomorrow's strip is her returning to the room to apologize, but in the meantime, I think that she's angry because she feels she can be, not because something really bothered her.

So in other words she's not insecure (at least, not unless it related directly to her brother), just a sneakier hell-bitch than Faye? That actually slots in with her manipulative behavior during Cosettegate.

[akronnick]

Hey!!  We have better things to do than make useless items such as these!!  We're a major metropolitan area!  They're probably made in Iowa or North Dakota, where there is literally nothing better to do 

I didn't say they were made in San Francisco, just that you could get one there.

Like all retail products in America today, dick-brooms are made in China.

[Carl-E]

San Francisco, but you can get them shipped to anywhere except Texas, Mississippi and Alabama.

Hey!!  We have better things to do than make useless items such as these!!  We're a major metropolitan area!  They're probably made in Iowa or North Dakota, where there is literally nothing better to do 

Oh come on now.  There's no such thing as Iowa.

Yes there is.  I spent a lovely week driving through it one afternoon...

[jwhouk]

If this was a TV show, I'd swear it was sweeps week.

[Technetium]

Martin should just get himself a fatty next time, they are much friendlier. Skinny girls rage and throw tantrums all the time because they know that they can just get rid of a guy whenever they want and get a new one within a couple hours. Fatties are nice to their boyfriends because they have nowhere else to go.

[Kazukagii]

Oh hey look, it's the bitchy/paranoid/jealous side of Dora, haven't seen that in quite a few strips.

Yeah I pretty much knew this arc was leading up to problems in the Martin/Dora relationship, but I honestly thought it would come from Martin's side, not Dora's.

I say she's just tired. This whole thing will blow over in a few chapter THEY'RE GOING TO BREAK UP AND DORA WILL MURDER FAYE AND THE COMIC NOW SUCKS WHAT THE FUCK JEPH OMG XD RUINED FOREVER!111!!11!

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out!

[BigSol81]

It's a good thing for Dora that Marten is so forgiving.

I mean, as far as I'm concerned, you can only go into a paranoid jealous rage so many times before "I'm sorry, I have poor self-esteem and trust issues!" won't work anymore. Personally, I think Marten should start putting his foot down. Dora has said before that she's trying to be better about this, yet each blow up seems worse than the one before it.

[reicreature]

Technetium-
Wow, that's one of the more horrible comments I've read on the internet today.
Ick.


Anyway, I'm sort of looking forward to how this might pan out. I'm in the sympathetic to Dora camp mostly because I think most of the time she's always trying to be the most awesome girlfriend ever and maybe that's just hiding the fact that she's really insecure. I can see where she must have thought the worst and it was just enough that even if there was nothing to it, she felt that both Martin and Faye were being inconsiderate on some level. Yes, she's being totally unreasonable, but who is reasonable all of the time? Yes, she's out of line, but I think her anger is indicative that something else is wrong.  I'm hoping that it all gets straightened out and we get a happier, less jealous Dora in the future.

[Nightson]

Amid all this, I really do think that people should adopt a more wait and see attitude, there are ways this could go down that ameliorate Dora's actions, she could come out an hour later having realized the mistakes she made and apologized for them.  Or should could stay in her unreasonable, jealous snit for days and Marten would be totally justified in dumping her.

[vettechinohio]

Martin should just get himself a fatty next time, they are much friendlier. Skinny girls rage and throw tantrums all the time because they know that they can just get rid of a guy whenever they want and get a new one within a couple hours. Fatties are nice to their boyfriends because they have nowhere else to go.

Douchebag  

[westrim]

Detail just noticed: Dora is wearing only underwear while yelling at her friends... for only wearing underwear. Still gonna wait and see, but I hope I'm waiting to see her apologize profusely without any of that "we're both wrong" stuff from Cosettegate.

[raoullefere]

I feel like the overall point is that, sure, lots of things could have been done, but no one was in a state to really do them. And really, it shouldn't have mattered. I agree with someone else who posted in here, that Dora makes every issue about herself, whether or not it is.

I agree with the first sentence, but the second isn't true. Dora certainly makes every issue that might be some indicator that Marten is about to leave her about herself, even, admittedly, when it's not. That was at the core, I think, of her blow-up at Marten for supporting Faye when the Sven-Faye thing came to her attention.

But Dora can also be both supportive and self-effacing. Really, she has a Jekyll and Hyde thing going. When her insecurity's not being triggered (such as Bossing at CoD before she got in a relationship with Marten) Dora's a very nice person. I suspect the real problem has been that as her relationship with Marten and its imminent demise have occupied her thoughts more and more, her relationship insecurity is triggered by more and more by less obviously related events, and that what happened 'tonight' is the result of a great pile of fear that Dora now has heaped up. Reminds me a bit of what Hyde says about 'sin' in comic The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen II. The more there is, the bigger he grows, and the more he dominates everything while Jekyll wastes away.

There's no doubt Dora has to get her fears under control. But there's also no doubt the 'other' Dora is very much in evidence. That, if he does, will be why Marten sticks with her.  I hope he does, since it seems to me Dora badly needs him as a demonstration that her assumptions are a fallacy—which doesn't mean he shouldn't stand up for himself. Marten can do both, and may be the most uniquely equipped person to do so in the cast.

The more I think about it, the more I think Dora may be Jeph's finest, most subtle, most nuanced creation, character-wise. Can't wait to see what happens next.

Which, of course, means Marigold tonight, no doubt.

[sophle]

Dora has insecurities. People are allowed to behave irrationally towards their friends/significant others once in a while--otherwise no one would have any friends. Dora is being ridiculous, but that doesn't mean she's a bitch.

My biggest problem is the "don't come into work" tomorrow thing. I get the heat-of-the-moment anger thing, but Dora'd better take that back; it is one thing to behave irrationally towards friends, another to do so towards an employee. As someone who runs her own business, Dora ought to be able to separate the two. If she actually tried to fire Faye over this, I'm pretty sure Faye would be allowed to sue, unless there was no contract whatsoever, which would be pretty unprofessional.

Also, how could anyone ever compare Peanuts to the Family Circus?

[Kugai]

[speculativethought]  Dora's pregnant [/speculativethought]

[themacnut]

Most employees in the states don't work under any kind of contract-they work under "employment at will". "Employment at will" means that not only can an employee leave a job for any reason or no reason, but also that an employer can fire an employee for any reason or no reason. Faye could still sue if she liked, but it would be on her to PROVE the termination was wrongful.

What would most likely save Faye's job is the fact that firing her, especially under these circumstances, would most certainly cost Dora Faye's friendship, and probably her relationship with Marten as well. Not to mention the loss of respect she'd get from her other employees...

[Ravenswing]

If I were in marten's shoes I would most likely end the relationship here. In fact, I HAVE ended a relationship for similar circumstances. A relationship without trust is a relationship waiting to fall apart.

Especially ... this is MARTEN.  Does Marten flirt with other women?  No, he does not.  Does he ogle other women?  No, he does not.  Has he, in fact, given the slightest inkling since he started dating Dora that he was still pining for Faye?  No, he has not.  Has he done the slightest thing inappropriate with the number of young women he hangs around with?  No, he has not.  Is he the type to cheat?  No, emphatically, he is not.

Marten could, easily, be forgiven for saying "You'd never have any faith in my fidelity no matter who I was or what I did."

[westrim]

If I were in marten's shoes I would most likely end the relationship here. In fact, I HAVE ended a relationship for similar circumstances. A relationship without trust is a relationship waiting to fall apart.

Especially ... this is MARTEN.  Does Marten flirt with other women?  No, he does not.  Does he ogle other women?  No, he does not.  Has he, in fact, given the slightest inkling since he started dating Dora that he was still pining for Faye?  No, he has not.  Has he done the slightest thing inappropriate with the number of young women he hangs around with?  No, he has not.  Is he the type to cheat?  No, emphatically, he is not.

Marten could, easily, be forgiven for saying "You'd never have any faith in my fidelity no matter who I was or what I did."

Why the hell do you keep writing in yellow?

[sophle]

@macnut--I'll take your word...I mostly just think that there is a big difference between being irrational with your friends, and being so grossly unprofessional. I think potentially firing Faye, or even taking away a day of paid work, is crossing a much bigger line than telling her boyfriend to sleep on the couch.

[Fenriswolf]

Well. I'm glad he's not mad at Faye (which IMO would have been a pretty understandable reaction but cruel), but in general this comic made me sad. The angry-Dora one made me angry, and just having the window open to F5 was stressing me out, but this one is sad.

Which really means Jeph's writing = good. Just, sad, today.

[tinkerbell]

Mad Marten is mad.

I guess this will please all those who claimed Marten was too laid-back. The fact that he has a name for the way she is acting is not a good sign I think.

[Sapnish]

I want to see that Hello Kitty belt buckle in every panel in the next strip.  

[ChibiSoma]

Marten gets angry? Hm. Might have to look into that. We can't have our milquetoast hero growing a spine this far in, can we?

Now I just hope he retains this anger until he can CONFRONT her about it.

He'll go for his walk, come back, pass by Faye, who's still on the couch and still sorta freaked out, now for more than one reason, and says "Hang on."

He goes into HIS bedroom, over to HIS bed, and yanks HIS god damn pillows out from under the werebitch's head. He opens his mouth, but Dora immediately starts shrieking like the inept banshee she is apparently becoming over Marten suddenly wearing Faye's clothes now CLEARLY SHE IS RIDING HIM BEHIND DORA'S BACK OHHHH SHIIIIIIIIT.

Then Marten tells the crazy bitch to get the unholy fuck out of Dodge before he calls the cops and sends her to the asshole tank for the rest of the night. It's like the drunk tank, just for assholes. It's the asshole tank.

Seriously though, while I'm glad Marty's getting some hair on his balls, we all know god damn well that it's going to be the most temporary anger in the history of dudes getting mad at their ladies. He's gonna go out, run into Jimbo, who's gonna ask if he came out of the closet. Marten gives him the Cliff's notes version of events, and Jimbo imparts sage wisdom on our boy. Which will most likely consist of "Hoo-er, boy, you need to call the cops and send that crazy bitch to the asshole tank."

[helloandgoodbye]

  Yeah, Marty will stop being angry soon.  If not the next strip, the one after.

[jordinyc]

Marten can't win.

[bicostp]

Could this be the beginnings of a Marten-spine developing?

Why the hell do you keep writing in yellow?

Because it makes his post stand out.

[raoullefere]

Does it seem ominous to anyone else Marten has the 'Teh' shirt on? Are we coming full circle? And if so, to what?

[Heliphyneau]

[speculativethought]  Dora's pregnant [/speculativethought]

And in a few months, comic-time, she'll miscarry, right?

*shudders; tries not to vomit*

I guess Marten's trying the cool-off-before-I-choke-a-bitch(TM) method before confronting Dora.  It'll be interesting to see where his walk lands him.  I'm still wondering if Faye's panic attack will restart itself or if being yelled at shorted it out -- panel 1 indicates the possibility of the former, but the rest of the strip seems to have her on a more even keel.  It's even possible that Hanners has heard some of the yelling, since she lives right above them and rarely sleeps . . .

Hello Kitty belt = win, btw.  ^_^  Almost as awesome as Hello Fiddy: http://boingboing.net/2010/08/27/kitty-cent.html

[Sapnish]

Does it seem ominous to anyone else Marten has the 'Teh' shirt on? Are we coming full circle? And if so, to what?

He'll meet up with Steve, they'll go to a bar and meet a new Indy Girl with twice as many "Issues" as Faye. She'll be Alternate Universe Faye, in which Sara will be her best friend, Hannelore is a free loving hippie and Dora runs a bar that Wasn't There Yesterday.

[jordinyc]

Does it seem ominous to anyone else Marten has the 'Teh' shirt on? Are we coming full circle? And if so, to what?

That's a great way of looking at it. To me it's more like a warning of importantly relevant shit coming our way.

Another way of looking at it is a metaphor for their relationship. The TEH shirt takes you back to QC's roots, taking you "back to Mecca" as it were. The roots, the foundation of any relationship have to be solid, and if there's a lack of trust, you're screwed, and not in the nice way. Maybe that's a stretch but that's how i see it.

[Heliphyneau]

Does it seem ominous to anyone else Marten has the 'Teh' shirt on? Are we coming full circle? And if so, to what?

That's a great way of looking at it. To me it's more like a warning of importantly relevant shit coming our way.

Another way of looking at it is a metaphor for their relationship. The TEH shirt takes you back to QC's roots, taking you "back to Mecca" as it were. The roots, the foundation of any relationship have to be solid, and if there's a lack of trust, you're screwed, and not in the nice way. Maybe that's a stretch but that's how i see it.

Or maybe the "TEH" shirt is just so definitively Marten, like Charlie Brown's black zigzag on yellow shirt, that it's there to show he hasn't changed -- and I don't mean that in a bad way.  He's the eye of the storm.  Maybe when the shirt changes it'll signify a change in him.

Or, maybe it's just the shirt that was clean on top of the pile.     "Sometimes a banana is just a banana, Anna."

[jordinyc]

Or maybe the "TEH" shirt is just so definitively Marten, like Charlie Brown's black zigzag on yellow shirt, that it's there to show he hasn't changed -- and I don't mean that in a bad way.  He's the eye of the storm.  Maybe when the shirt changes it'll signify a change in him.

Or, maybe it's just the shirt that was clean on top of the pile.     "Sometimes a banana is just a banana, Anna."

Or as Bill Clinton said: sometimes a cigar is just a cigar XD.

[Akima]

Marten gets angry? Hm. Might have to look into that. We can't have our milquetoast hero growing a spine this far in, can we?

Curious how often people mistake anger for a backbone... I guess Marten's got those "Wandering The Streets In Girl's Pants With a Hello Kitty Belt-Buckle blues". Notoriously difficult to rhyme...

[ChibiSoma]

Wait, no, I know what'll happen.

Marten goes on his walk. Faye goes to talk to Dora. And, maybe involving Faye out-bitching Dora, explains what was going on. I think if anyone tells Dora to stop being an ass, it'll be Faye.

Then they hug and make up.

Which is when Marten walks in, pointing and yelling, "Oh, so it's fine when YOU do it?!"

[Kaziel]

Personally, I'm expecting something (not sure what) but something to happen when he goes on his walk. I mean, maybe it's just a case of a walk being a walk, but why go through all of the effort of writing him having to wear Faye's clothes to go out on a walk for no real reason? Hmmmm...