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[MC]

if I were Marten this is the point where I would tell Dora to hit the road. For real, a relationship can't work if there is quite literally no trust what so ever. Yes I know I'm taking the comic WAY to seriously but shut up! Thats my human right!!

[akronnick]

I think you're right, but I think Marten should give it a day or so.

Marten and Faye staying away from Dora for a little while (like hours, not weeks) for everybody to cool off is probably the best thing right now, but it can't be drawn out.

If Dora hasn't cooled off and realized she's being an unreasonable Hell-bitch by the time Coffe of Doom closes the next day, Marten needs to assert his right as an independant person to not be terrorized by Dora's problems.

He needs to call her on her bullshit, and they need to talk about things she can do to address that aspect of her personality.

If she can't handle that, Marten needs to let her know that her behavior is unacceptable and can't continue.

And if it does continue, or if Dora doesn't recognize her culpability in this matter, Marten needs to DTMFA.

[ershnuff]

I agree. It was her friggin' idea for them to move in with them anyway, wasn't it? Then she decides she can start throwing her weight around, telling Fay she can't work the next day and Marten he can't stay in his own room? Unacceptable. I hate seeing any person being terrorized by the person they're dating, so this pisses me off even though it's fiction... mainly because this kind of thing does happen. I wouldn't put up with that garbage. She needs to check herself before she wrecks herself.

[Thorbard]

Yeah, Dora crossed the line here. If she doesn't apologise first thing then this is a pretty big deal.

As has been said previously, Dora just kicked Marten out of his own bed for helping out his best friend. If it had been me (in either position) putting pants on would've been the last thing on my mind.

Interested to see how this plays out.

[LeeC]

actually, since she moved in isn't it her bed room too?

I agree she is over-reacting way too much but people do that when it's their emotionally invested significant other.  I think her brain thought "marten in undies, Faye in undies, faye liked marten, marten liked faye, they like liking each other?! Dora smash!"

I can't tell if she told faye not to come into work the next day as a way of lashing out, discipline (like a parent), or because she is so angry that she just cannot see Faye all day.

As for marten, I totally saw this coming when he sat down with her in his boxers. Sorry old buddy but sleep on the couch tonight an hope she realizes she was overreacting tomorrow.

[akronnick]

I agree.

One day. If she doesn't get over her anger and figure out she's about to ruin the two best relationships she has, Dora needs to get hit with the Brick Wall of Rejection.

One day...then DTMFA!

[DoubleJ]

On the Faye side, we also have Dora, who not twelve hours ago gave the new baristas the speech about separating work and not-work, effectively cutting Faye's hours over something not-work related. Which is, y'know, a bad thing. I'm belligerent enough to say that Faye needs to show up for work as scheduled and lay a verbal smackdown if required.

[Josefbugman]

I get the feeling someone at CoD will point something out about how self centered Dora is being. Because if she actually thinks about this and STILL decides she's in the right without letting either of them explain then I would be seriously talking about problems here.

[jwhouk]

I get the feeling someone at CoD will point something out about how self centered Dora is being. Because if she actually thinks about this and STILL decides she's in the right without letting either of them explain then I would be seriously talking about problems here.

You are allowed to say "Hannelore" around here.

My money's on her pulling her "Going Critical" routine on Dora.

[Polonius]

Every relationship is going to have dumb late night fights.  It's part of the scenery.  Dora really crossed two lines though:

1) She's taking money out of Faye's pocket.  You don't work at a coffee shop because you like coffee, you generally need the money.

2) The way she said "Can you not see how I might find this a little inappropriate."  It's such a detached way of expressing herself.  She's not saying she's mad, or upset about what she saw, but because she feels entitled to the anger.  In the earlier comic, she even says "I don't know what this looks like, but it isn't good." 

Now, people don't always pick the best words (in RL or in text), but she never actually can come up with a reason for her anger.  All she does is state that Marten should know that she would be upset by this.  Because after six months of cohabitation for all three, there's apparently some sort of underwear taboo.

IIRC we've seen some fights between Marten and Dora before, usually with at least some fault on either side.  I'm sure there will be a tidy resolution, (despite that look on Marten's face when Dora says Toto sucks), she made the mistake of messing with Faye.  Marten's spineless, but Faye isn't going to go down for this. 

[onefish]

Eh. They need to have a talk, but I can't see Marten dumping her. 1) They'll be able to work it out. 2) Marten is dating up. Hot, take-charge small business owner with an aimless skinny-indie library worker? He should be counting lucky stars.

[Malek]

Why do women never seem to give the man time to explain, they either yell and leave or just leave outright?

[Thorbard]

I want to see it go something like this:

Faye quits her job, citing constructive dismissal (Dora has treated her unreasonably here, and personal issues are no reason to cut someone's shifts).
Dora refuses to pay her severance package and Faye takes Dora to court, bankrupting Coffee of Doom.

Back at the house, Faye asks Marten who he'd rather live with, her or Dora. Since Faye and Marten are good friends, he picks her and they kick Dora out. Dora disappears from the QC cast for undisclosed reasons (think Steve on a bender).

[Zipperstuck]

I'm kinda thinking this might be when we finally get to hear about Dora's backstory.

[jordinyc]

I'm kinda thinking this might be when we finally get to hear about Dora's backstory.

Between this, the whole you-got-your-hair-cut-without-checking-with-me-first bullshit, and a few other choice moments that I can say with confidence were building up to this, I myself am gonna be seriously pissed if we don't get at least one of the following:

(1) Dora has some real serious shit going on and has been hiding it really really well, or burried it and isn't even aware of it, and we're all in for a big tearjerker.
(2) Deep down inside, Dora's just an insatiable cunt who wears a veil of civility so thick and often, even she forgets it's there.
(3) Marten was IN FACT CURSED BY VOODOO ZOMBIES and that's why every girl he dates, no matter how intelligent or emotionally stable they are, are destined to be fucking psychos.

[tuxedobob]

I'm mostly disappointed that today's strip was entirely predictable after seeing the last panel in yesterday's strip.

I'm also disappointed because Dora doesn't strike me as this strong, and neither Marten nor Faye strike me as this weak. Faye especially I would expect to snap and just yell SHUT UP! at Dora.

[IanClark]

I honestly think you guys are blowing this out of proportion. Almost every single person in existence has at least one issue like this, and it is usually every bit this severe. Mine is that I can't take being lied to.

The measure of any relationship isn't whether or not things like this happen, it's how they're dealt with when they do (and it is when, not if). If they can navigate through this smoothly within maybe 48 hours and if Marten makes it clear that this can't be a regular occurrence (and Dora complies), then the relationship is still a healthy one by any reasonable standards. Bear in mind that for all the times Dora's jealousy has been a problem for her relationship with Marten, not once has he ever said anything to the effect of "Your jealousy is starting to become a problem and I can't keep dealing with it forever." I get the feeling that by the time this is all said and done, that will have been said, and it's what comes after that that defines the relationship, not whether or not Dora has a single major issue.

Jealousy is a serious personality flaw, but so is having high standards for the people around you. If you completely reject someone over a single issue that you haven't even brought up with them, then you are doing the very same thing you are bemoaning the jealous person for: hurting those around you to further your own unrealistic expectations of what is acceptable. Just as Dora is causing undue grief to Marten and Faye, so would Marten be inflicting upon Dora if he made the decision to break up with her before confronting her. If she refuses to change, or is unable to change, then Marten would be in the right to end things with her, but until that is made apparent, the best thing to do is ride the situation out and be assertive.

Love is a bond you share with someone, not an assessment of their worth. If you can't forgive someone a flaw and help them to work through it, then you are not in love, and the chance of that ever changing with someone different diminishes significantly.

Edit: I want to clarify that by "you guys" I don't mean all of you collectively. I just mean those who are being unduly judgmental.

[ThisMortalSoil]

I was a little shocked by Dora's reaction at first, but then came to the forum and remembered her insecurity in the past. While I ultimately hope that Marten and Faye will be together someday, I hope that this is just a rough patch and that Dora and Marten will get through it

[lunchmeat]

Damn, you guys are taking this really seriously.

Too seriously.

Faye and Dora should get into a fight - like, some John Woo-style shit. It'll be like the fight between Uma Thurman and Lucy Liu in Kill Bill, only more epic because instead of swords they will have LASER SWORDS

Marten will, initially, be altruistic and try to reconcile everyone's problems by interceding in the fight, but Steve will make him realize that girl fights with LASER SWORDS are awesome

Pintsize will record the entire thing and upload it to Youtube

Of course at the end of all this there will be an obligatory orgy between all of the QC characters. Crisis averted.

[Josefbugman]

Tbh I like the pairings that are going on now (but then I specifically didn't read the first 500 comics) and I hope this is a minor blip that will be sorted, I'll be very sad if it doesn't.

That and the fact that yeah, this has to be sorted quickly otherwise it just makes no sense, and as daft as Dora can sometimes be about stuff like this? Well I do hope she realises she's being daft.

[Switchblade]

got to be honest here... the people clamouring for a breakup are just demonstrating that they don't know what it takes to make a real relationship work.

[jordinyc]

Pardon me if any or all of this sounds like it's right out of a Glenn Beck show, I hope I'm not invalidating my IQ score by stating this:

Part of the reason Dora's reaction pisses me off (a lot) is because of a perception that many MANY people have, both men and women. The perception is that the woman in a relationship is entitled to be as unreasonable as possible because (a) "that's just how women are" and (b) she "holds all the cards" and it's up to the guy to beg, plead, obey, kiss up, etc. You don't see TV ads with women staring at hot guys and then their husband or boyfriend looking at them with contempt as their woman tries to explain. There are A LOT of men who in Marten's situation would probably spend whole days begging and pleading for the wife/gf to forgive him, as well as women who feel like it's their duty to act like Dora is. Switch genders and you have a Lifetime movie.

I guess it shouldn't bug me but it does. So if you're wondering why I'm being so trollbait butthurt over a comic, trust me it's not that, it's the society of humanity that it's reflecting.

[Penquin47]

I think it's time for Marten and Dora to sit down and for Marten to spell out to Dora that her behavior is ridiculous and not acceptable.  You have to remember: this isn't the first time Dora's freaked out over what wasn't a big deal.

First time was when Faye and Sven hooked up.  Dora has unresolved self-worth issues and sibling rivalry issues, and this let Marten know about them.  Free pass for Dora as long as she calmed down and talked about it, which she did.

Second time was when Marten mentioned still having feelings for all of his exes.  Because of Dora's self-worth issues, she also has jealousy issues.  Marten calmed her down and they discussed it.

Those two might be backwards or even conflated as part of the same fight, I don't really remember.

Third time was when she found out about Cosette asking Marten out.  Dora had already acknowledged her jealousy issues, and eventually realized that she needed to deal with those.

This is the fourth time.  Obviously, that "intent to change" didn't stick.  However, this *was* a slightly bigger deal than Cosette, as Faye is one of the girls Marten still has feelings for and there really isn't any way that finding them hugging in their underwear is going to look good right off.  From what we've seen, though, they didn't get the chance to explain without Dora cutting them off and yelling some more.  If she doesn't calm down and take the initiative to apologize, then yes, Marten probably *should* look into an ultimatum - get help or get out.  Marten and Faye did nothing wrong aside from maybe make a poor decision about whether to get dressed before/while discussing things.

[jordinyc]

...when Faye and Sven hooked up .... feelings for all of his exes .... Cosette asking Marten out ....This is the fourth time. 

hm .. yeah ok that kinda trumps the haircut thing XD

[ChibiSoma]

got to be honest here... the people clamouring for a breakup are just demonstrating that they don't know what it takes to make a real relationship work.

That or we've been in relationships with crazy bitches.

Also, stop being a twat.

[Carl-E]

Tomorrow.  Someone says, "Now, just wait one god-damned minute!"  and calls her on how unreasonable she's being.  They may let her cool down some first, but I'm not sure that's in Faye's character.  

Of course, the last time that happened there was a fight.  Dora may blow up more, she may not.  We'll see.  There will be punch lines, tears, attempts at reconciliation, comfort, recriminations (self- and otherwise), probably a few more misunderstandings,

and then life (and the comic) will go on.  

got to be honest here... the people clamouring for a breakup are just demonstrating that they don't know what it takes to make a real relationship work.

That or we've been in relationships with crazy bitches.

Also, stop being a twat.

Dora's not a crazy bitch.  Bitch-ette, at best.  Issues, yes,  but crazy?  No. 

Sorry if you've really been involved with a truly crazy person before, but that's unfortunate, and not their fault.

[helloandgoodbye]

Pardon me if any or all of this sounds like it's right out of a Glenn Beck show, I hope I'm not invalidating my IQ score by stating this:

Part of the reason Dora's reaction pisses me off (a lot) is because of a perception that many MANY people have, both men and women. The perception is that the woman in a relationship is entitled to be as unreasonable as possible because (a) "that's just how women are" and (b) she "holds all the cards" and it's up to the guy to beg, plead, obey, kiss up, etc. You don't see TV ads with women staring at hot guys and then their husband or boyfriend looking at them with contempt as their woman tries to explain. There are A LOT of men who in Marten's situation would probably spend whole days begging and pleading for the wife/gf to forgive him, as well as women who feel like it's their duty to act like Dora is. Switch genders and you have a Lifetime movie.

I guess it shouldn't bug me but it does. So if you're wondering why I'm being so trollbait butthurt over a comic, trust me it's not that, it's the society of humanity that it's reflecting.

  Um, Jeph did show the gender roles reversed.  Remember Cosette and Steve?  Marten just told Cosette that her shirt looked nice, and Steve totally overreacted.  Yeah, they aren't major characters in the webcomic, but it does show that unreasonableness and jealousy go both ways.

  Steve realized he was being unreasonable and apologized. Dora will most likely do the same.  I think people are being unreasonable by saying that Marten and Dora need to break up now.  She just need to let off a little steam and realize that she was being stupid.

[WoweeZowee]

I disagree.   Recall that Dora obviously knows that Marten once really wanted to be with Faye. What is she supposed to think immediately upon seeing this?  If ANYONE walked in on their love interest snuggling someone they once had feelings for IN the middle of the night WHILE in their undergarments, the first reaction would not be complete trust and an assumption of platonic happenings.  Sorry, but if you claim otherwise you're just being silly. It doesn't mean Dora's right.  It's just probably how any person would react.  I don't think her reaction even shows undue jealousy.  She should have allowed for more explanation, but no one is perfect.   Also, we've only seen Dora's reaction after like 1 minute. 

[jordinyc]

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ....

blah blah blah blah blah perception blah blah blah unreasonable blah blah blah blah cards blah blah blah blah begging blah blah blah genders blah blah blah blah Lifetime blah.

  Um, Jeph did show the gender roles reversed.  Remember Cosette and Steve?  Marten just told Cosette that her shirt looked nice, and Steve totally overreacted.  Yeah, they aren't major characters in the webcomic, but it does show that unreasonableness and jealousy go both ways.

  Steve realized he was being unreasonable and apologized. Dora will most likely do the same.  I think people are being unreasonable by saying that Marten and Dora need to break up now.  She just need to let off a little steam and realize that she was being stupid.

.... I fucking LOVE THIS COMIC!!! >_<

(Don't get me wrong, I'm complaining about people in general and why Dora pissed me off, not about the series or the plot.)

[tomart]

... right out of a Glenn Beck show ...
Part of the reason Dora's reaction pisses me off (a lot) is because of a perception that many MANY people have, both men and women. The perception is that the woman in a relationship is entitled to be as unreasonable as possible because (a) "that's just how women are" and (b) she "holds all the cards" and it's up to the guy to beg, plead, obey, kiss up, etc.
... A LOT of men who in Marten's situation would probably spend whole days begging and pleading for the wife/gf to forgive him, as well as women who feel like it's their duty to act like Dora is.

? I thought Glenn Beck was just a right-wing Republican rabble-rouser.  Tell me, please, which side of the above delusion is he on?  (Rubs hands in gleeful anticipation of potential delicious red-meat debatatribes [Not really; they get ugly, not to mention off-topic.] )

Yeah, that particular TOTALLY UNFAIR female manipulation pathology seriously bugs me too.  But I'm not raging at Dora yet because:
1. her behavior & words are from a guy
2. like he says, her previously-defined issues pretty much pre-wrote her parts in the last two strips
3. we've only seen a minute or so after the awkward discovery

But it's a bad sign that she's stomping on her two closest friends without even fucking LISTENING TO THEM...  and she's crossing the line, as someone points out, mixing business with personal issues, ...UNLESS it's for the reasonable reason that she'll be able to calm down better without having to face Faye at work before working any of this out. (She can always pay Faye for the day later, in effect giving her an extra paid vac day.)  I'm hoping Dorian reasonableness ensues fairly soon, with that generous gesture topping the relieved smiles all around.

[tomart]

(3)  every girl he dates, no matter how intelligent or emotionally stable they are, are destined to be fucking psychos.

a curiously similar trope Don't go there! recurs in another good long-running webcomic, Something Positive, where Davan even has a cynical phrase, "sticking it in the crazy"...  

[Carl-E]

Did Randy make that up?  I could've swore I'd heard that expression before.  Of maybe I've just incorporated too much S*P into my life...

 

[sterlingdragon]

Hmmmm
How about this:
Marten, completely reasonably, breaks up with Dora and kicks her out, and then comes to the sinking realization that with Penelope with Wil, Faye with Angus, Tai with Multiple People, all female, Sara with an Allosaurus, Cosette with Steve, the only single girls currently in his life are Hanners, Marigold and Raven. Raven is not there, and if she were there, couldn't keep a relationship and would be a lesbian every other day. Marigold is too much of a shut-in recluse and too addicted to WoW(and probs gonna end up with Dale) to have a relationship outside of her own apartment. Hanners is afraid of sex, kisses, germs and physical contact, end of story.
Due to this, He walks to Steve's place, drags him by the arm to the bar, and there they find Jimbo making out with a very drunk Tai, and Sven passed out in the bathroom. Jimbo, Tai, Steve, Marten and Sven then drink all their troubles away, while exchanging classy small-talk. As Marten is walking home, he and Steve encounter a familiar foe in an alley...the Vespavenger. Pizza Girl arrives to save the day, but is knocked out, and then unmasked(spoiler: It's Penelope) by another supervillain, arriving on the scene...some chick. She, the Vespavenger and Vespabot then murder Steve, and tie up Marten and force him to watch. They're about to kill Marten, when both Vespavenger and unnamed supervillain are shot in the face, and cinderblocks are dropped on the Vespabot's head(Again, by Pintsize). The assailant? None other than a now-conscious Penelope, who utters the catchphrase 'Did you order a pizza, EXTRA DEATH?'
We then find out that the unnamed supervillain and the Vespavenger are secretly Dora and Raven. With both of them gone, Faye begins a tyrannical rule over Coffee of Doom until she is shot by a now-crazed Hannelore, who proceeds to kill Penelope, Wil, Angus, a couple slaves, Cosette, Marten(Who was at the time dating Cosette), Sven, Tai, Jimbo, and anyone else in the vicinity before being killed by an unknown female heroine, masked in shadows.
We then get an introductory comic to the character, because now, she is the focal point of the strip(Every other character being dead(Except for Sara, Ellen, and anyone else who completely disappeared), with her newly adopted Robo-sidekicks, Pintsize, Winslow and Momo, as well as her pets, a loudly-chirping English-speaking Bird, with the amazing power to insert a reference to sex into every sentence, and a Dog with the amazing power to punch things long distances. with these as her sidekicks, she is...
Sweet-Tits. Well, her real name is Rosemary Moore, but ever since her secret identity went public, she went from 'Hey, who's that weird chick' to 'Hey, isn't that Sweet-Tits?'
Anyway, Sweet-Tits is a cool gal, seh fights crime and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Is it cold in here?]

Sshhh! No spoilers!

[raoullefere]

[Snip]

The way she said "Can you not see how I might find this a little inappropriate."  It's such a detached way of expressing herself.  She's not saying she's mad, or upset about what she saw, but because she feels entitled to the anger.  In the earlier comic, she even says "I don't know what this looks like, but it isn't good." 

Now, people don't always pick the best words (in RL or in text), but she never actually can come up with a reason for her anger.  All she does is state that Marten should know that she would be upset by this.  Because after six months of cohabitation for all three, there's apparently some sort of underwear taboo.

IIRC we've seen some fights between Marten and Dora before, usually with at least some fault on either side.  I'm sure there will be a tidy resolution, (despite that look on Marten's face when Dora says Toto sucks), she made the mistake of messing with Faye.  Marten's spineless, but Faye isn't going to go down for this. 

That's fear. Because if Dora says what she really thinks, it might be true. The more I think about it, the more she's actually trying (badly, but trying) not to do something irrevocable here. After all, she could simply leave.

I wouldn't count too much on Faye. As memory serves, Faye only stands up for herself when the other side isn't really fighting back—or what's at stake has nothing to do with her personally, which, of course, is in keeping with her own issues.

[KOODustin]

I have to agree with the OP.  You can say we take this "too seriously", but what's the point of posting if you're not going to discuss it?  Are we all supposed to blow sunshine up eachother's asses and have a big circle jerk about how awesome these really well crafted characters are as people?  No, fuck that.  We're passionate about the comic, so shut your dismissive ass.

ANYwhoooo....  Yeah, there's just NO way I could stand being in a relationship with someone who's shown repeatedly that they don't trust me, despite my absolute faithfulness, complete devotion, and in Marten's case, practical submissiveness with her.  Especially when that person gets pissed over little things like a haircut.  Dora IS a really well made and believable character.  But for the life of me, I cannot see what Marten see's in her AT ALL.  Yeah.  She's hot in her own way when she's not being a first class, grade-A bitch, but if I had my integrity as man and someone you supposedly love called into question repeatedly with clearly NO attempt to see any other side to the situation or no attempt to even change that aspect about yourself then what is the point?  What's the point of going through a relationship terrified of every little thing because the girl you're with could just go off like a banshee at any moment?  A relationship is not a fucking minefield.  I've known women like Dora.  Women who get pissed and filled with their self righteous indignation that they won't even bother to hear your side, because how could they be wrong?  The "I'm yelling the loudest, so I win" mentality.  Yeah, Dora may come around later, but not before terrorizing and putting the people she claims to care about through hell.  To say that people calling for a break up don't know what it's like in a committed relationship is downright ignorant.  I mean, seriously, if you act that way in your relationships, you deserve to be alone.  

[ershnuff]

For me, this would be the straw that breaks the camels back. Even if for some idiotic reason I were to stay in the relationship for as long as Marten has and put up with all her crap, this would do it for me. Whether or not this is how anybody would react is inconsequential... what matters is the fact that this stupidity with Dora happen too frequently, and I have NEVER actually seen this be Marten's fault.

Honestly, this kind of brings out why Dora is my least favorite character. In fact, I rather dislike her. She becomes this heinous witch when things don't go her way or she thinks she sees something that isn't really there and she goes crazy, then realizes she's made a mistake and gets all apologetic. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It's been more than three strikes and she's been given more than enough chances. If I were in his shoes and wasn't super submissive like he is, I'd let her go to work in the morning to open up her coffee shop. Throw all her personal belongings in the parking lot outside, change the locks on the door. Indignant and simultaneously ignorant behavior drives me up a wall.

[helloandgoodbye]

  Damn.  You guys are harsh.

  I find that Dora is usually a likable character.  She's generally pretty friendly, and it seems that Marten and her get along the majority of the time.  Yes, she can be unreasonable, but she realizes this.  In fact, every time she has apologized, and I recall her telling Faye that she's trying to work on her jealousy issues.

   Dora does not act like a bitch 24/7, and I don't think Marten and her should break up.  If she apologizes and opens up to Marten about her jealousy issues, then I think everything will work out okay.

[pwhodges]

I mean, seriously, if you act that way in your relationships, you deserve to be alone.

Remind me why divorce is so common now as to be considered normal.

Everyone has their quirks; a degree of tolerance, understanding, and eventually help, is necessary to stable marriage - and in the end, society.

[ershnuff]

I mean, seriously, if you act that way in your relationships, you deserve to be alone.

Remind me why divorce is so common now as to be considered normal.

Everyone has their quirks; a degree of tolerance, understanding, and eventually help, is necessary to stable marriage - and in the end, society.

Agreed, but where is the line drawn? There is quirkiness... and then there is major baggage and just plain intolerable INSANITY. If she said she was gonna work on her issues, she should work on them. THIS is not working on them. This is falling back into the same slump again and again.

[TheReaper]

Why do women never seem to give the man time to explain, they either yell and leave or just leave outright?

Rule of Drama.

Or maybe I've just incorporated too much S*P into my life...

If such a thing were possible, you mean.

It's just probably how any person would react.  I don't think her reaction even shows undue jealousy. 

Really? I mean, do you really, honestly believe that?

Not even being snarky.
You know what I think is a reasonable reaction?

"Hey guys what the fuck are you doing it's like 3 in the morning I was ASLEEP."
"Oh [NAME] was just having a crisis about her date thing and wanted me to talk her down."
"Oh okay well is she fine now?"
"Yes."
"I'm glad. Now everyone shut the fuck up and go back to sleep because we all have work in the morning."

At the very worst, mild annoyance at being woken up god-knows-when to find your boyfriend holding his best friend.
Anything else is overemotional.

But then again Dora is not really known for being calm and rational when it comes to Marten. Which I guess is why I'm not on either side of the "Dora is such a fucking bitch you guys" debate. Her actions are intolerable, but in-character. Therefore, there's no real reason to be upset about it.

To me, anyway.

[Akima]

Part of the reason Dora's reaction pisses me off (a lot) is because of a perception that many MANY people have, both men and women. The perception is that the woman in a relationship is entitled to be as unreasonable as possible because (a) "that's just how women are" and (b) she "holds all the cards" and it's up to the guy to beg, plead, obey, kiss up, etc. You don't see TV ads with women staring at hot guys and then their husband or boyfriend looking at them with contempt as their woman tries to explain. There are A LOT of men who in Marten's situation would probably spend whole days begging and pleading for the wife/gf to forgive him, as well as women who feel like it's their duty to act like Dora is. Switch genders and you have a Lifetime movie.

Yeah, because contemporary pop-cultural depictions of women are completely accurate, and don't buy at all into stereotypes that have remained pretty much unchanged since Aristophanes wrote Lysistrata. You know, that we're inherently irrational, because we've got wombs (just for fun, look up the origin of the word "hysteria").

[Heliphyneau]

Part of the reason Dora's reaction pisses me off (a lot) is because of a perception that many MANY people have, both men and women. The perception is that the woman in a relationship is entitled to be as unreasonable as possible because (a) "that's just how women are" and (b) she "holds all the cards" and it's up to the guy to beg, plead, obey, kiss up, etc. You don't see TV ads with women staring at hot guys and then their husband or boyfriend looking at them with contempt as their woman tries to explain. There are A LOT of men who in Marten's situation would probably spend whole days begging and pleading for the wife/gf to forgive him, as well as women who feel like it's their duty to act like Dora is. Switch genders and you have a Lifetime movie.

Yeah, because contemporary pop-cultural depictions of women are completely accurate, and don't buy at all into stereotypes that have remained pretty much unchanged since Aristophanes wrote Lysistrata. You know, that we're inherently irrational, because we've got wombs (just for fun, look up the origin of the word "hysteria").

Indeed.  Even more fun: What is the origin/root of evil?  The word itself, I mean.

That's right.  Eve.

Here, have an apple.

[Wiregeek]

I mean, seriously, if you act that way in your relationships, you deserve to be alone.

Remind me why divorce is so common now as to be considered normal.

Everyone has their quirks; a degree of tolerance, understanding, and eventually help, is necessary to stable marriage - and in the end, society.

Remind me again why divorce is a bad thing?

Wait, hold on, I've got to go help gramma up the stairs - she don't walk too good since grampa broke her fucking leg.

Wait, hold on, I've got to go help my bro Ben move a couch - oops, he's in jail for the rest of his life because his wife convinced him to take the fall for her killing their baby.

Wait, hold on, I've got to go over to my father's house and help him fix the roof - he can't afford a contractor since his ex-wife squandered the savings.


I could go on for hours.

[SuperSUGA]

I have to agree with the OP.  You can say we take this "too seriously", but what's the point of posting if you're not going to discuss it?  Are we all supposed to blow sunshine up eachother's asses and have a big circle jerk about how awesome these really well crafted characters are as people?  No, fuck that.  We're passionate about the comic, so shut your dismissive ass.

Truth. Right here. Even though the swearing hides the very good point somewhat.

I see this attitude on a few webcomic forums and it really confuses me. People like to talk about things that interest them. Some people really like to dive into them and look at them in real detail, this usually means the work has really grabbed them one way or an other.

If you're someone who's tried to squash one of these discussions or passive-aggressively snipe at those taking part, just close the thread down. Forums probably aren't for you.

[pwhodges]

Remind me why divorce is so common now as to be considered normal.

There are good and bad reasons for divorce.  And note that, yes, I have been divorced - but I was married for 22 years first (17 in my second marriage, so far), which is well over average these days.

[jwhouk]

I'm trying to remember the statistics I heard about people who live together before marriage and divorce rates, but the numbers are escaping me.

Only thing I do remember, though, was that the numbers weren't good. Couples who lived together before marriage more than likely didn't get married, and those who did get married were like about three times more likely to get divorced.

Somehow that makes me sadder than seeing Marten with a pair of Faye's jeans on.

[DoubleJ]

If I'm remembering right, the results fall under the heading of "Doesn't Help; Makes It Worse" -- basically people see moving in together as a safety valve, but then feel too wrapped up into it and decide that after living together for a while they're supposed to get married, with the net result being that people who would have broken up if they weren't living together end up getting married when they shouldn't and contribute to the divorce rate when they can't take it any more.

[jwhouk]

It also comes out as a good argument for not living together in the first place.

Before you come at me with that weird broom, some self-disclosure: my wife and I lived together for several months before we got married. I admit it.

[Nightson]

Honestly I think the biggest problem with moving in together is that it's done way, way too soon.  Moving in together is a huge relationship step that a lot of times seems to get treated like it's not a big deal.