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Chill And Understanding

0 (0%)

Faye Cliff Notes (and loading docks)

3 (5.9%)

The Angst Solstice

5 (9.8%)

"Are you gonna break up with me?"

2 (3.9%)

Something we gotta fix.

0 (0%)

Full Disclosure, Crazy Bitch and Sense of Timing

2 (3.9%)

"The first genuinely Nice Guy" she's been with

0 (0%)

"I love you." "I love you too."

10 (19.6%)

"LESS TALKING MORE HOT MAKE-UP SEX"

16 (31.4%)

Whole Social Circle imploding over no PANTS!

13 (25.5%)

Total Members Voted: 41

[jwhouk]

Will Sven actually HELP Marten deal with Dora?

Yes.    - 41 (47.7%)
No.    - 5 (5.8%)
Porridge.    - 3 (3.5%)
Pancakes.    - 11 (12.8%)
Asps.    - 9 (10.5%)
UBMEOD.    - 17 (19.8%)

Total Voters: 86

[jwhouk]

Angst Solstice?

Once in a blue Moon?   

PHWEET!

"KUGAI! Two Minutes, Bad Punning!"

[Border Reiver]

Hopefully, this won't lead to a Twilight of the team.

[Karilyn]

Or at least it implies that there are no male non-douchebags.

Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.
(Get it? The frog is a joke in this metaphor, and by explaining it you're killing it!)

[Tunahead]

You know, Sven kind of reminds me of Scott Pilgrim. He's a self-absorbed jackass who goes through life facing no personal challenges and experiencing no emotional growth, until one relationship finally makes him see that those "uncomplicated" relationships he had before weren't as uncomplicated as he thought and he was actually hurting people. Also he kind of physically resembles Scott Pilgrim, too.

I wonder if he's entering Finest Hour mode or if he's about to relapse into Precious Little Life.

[Sapnish]

I must still be tired, as I thought the last two panels of today's comic was one big one and there were two Martens standing around Sven. I wondered for a whole minute who that Marten clone was and why the other Marten and Sven were not talking about him.

[Heliphyneau]

Is it bad that I'm disappointed that 1. we don't get to see the Hello Kitty belt and 2. Faye's jeans don't look baggy on Marten?  I mean, get that that would be a pain in the ass (ha!) to draw, but I was kind of looking forward to that sartorial silliness.  Ah well.

As to the Angst Solstice, I think there was more inherent angst in Sven's caginess in panel 3 than there was in his departing line in panel 6.  I can understand why he wouldn't want to "share" about his self-imposed celibacy with Marten, though.

I refuse to say the "name" of that creature on page 2 of this thread, but I will say that he has split the difference between hat and hair by wearing a hat apparently made of his own pubes.

[Gill Kaiser]

I must still be tired, as I thought the last two panels of today's comic was one big one and there were two Martens standing around Sven. I wondered for a whole minute who that Marten clone was and why the other Marten and Sven were not talking about him.

I think it's probably because the tree has disappeared in the last panel.

[Carl-E]

I refuse to say the "name" of that creature on page 2 of this thread, but I will say that he has split the difference between hat and hair by wearing a hat apparently made of his own pubes.

Ya know, some of us actually try to sleep at night...

Thanks for that lovely image.  I need to retch now. 

[Switchblade]

But Switchblade.  His name is Mystery.
He chose that name for himself.

HE VOLUNTARILY CALLS HIMSELF MYSTERY.  AND HE MAKES HIS FRIENDS CALL HIM THAT.

Yep, he's a pretentious ass.  No argument there.

still, it's better than "A Pimp Called Slickback"

[Mad Cat]

That's "A Pimp NAMED Slickback".

[Border Reiver]

I refuse to say the "name" of that creature on page 2 of this thread, but I will say that he has split the difference between hat and hair by wearing a hat apparently made of his own pubes.

Ya know, some of us actually try to sleep at night...

Thanks for that lovely image.  I need to retch now. 

Carl, this is why God or otherwise inspired unnamed hero invented beer.

Just go for the Barley wines to make sure its strong enough to wipe the bad image away with the least amount of fluid.

[tomart]

He's also very wrong about that hat.  

So in a lot of respects, douchey is as douchey does.  If  there's anything else under there, it's being hidden by choice!  

I agree with you 100% about that hat.  But then I realize some women will be 'Intrigued' by a guy ballsy enough to look like that.  
The human peacock promises self-confidence, entertainment, or something...

And I remembered being out and about at an unGodly early hour on a recent Sunday, and witnessing several women festooned with similar, but even more bizarre extravagances perched atop their crania...  evidently their church was having a competition for most wacko chapeau, or they thought their God wanted to see them done up to the nines, or some shit...

Maybe these women are his intended audience/dating pool.    

Oh, and say it out loud: "Mr. E."   it loses a lot of the complete douchery that way...  (Or am I giving him unwarranted credit?)

[Switchblade]

That's "A Pimp NAMED Slickback".

so it is. my bad.

[Akima]

Oh, and say it out loud: "Mr. E."   it loses a lot of the complete douchery that way...  (Or am I giving him unwarranted credit?)

I was thinking "Miss Tree" myself. If I saw that hat, I suspect I'd just point and giggle. My tastes run in other directions.

[Carl-E]

Wait - I've never heard of this guy.  So, is it Mystery, or Mr. E?  I'd give him props for the pun if it were the latter. 

But we're no relation...

I guess I'm Dr. E? 

Just doesn't have the same ring to it...

[akronnick]

So, is it Mystery, or Mr. E? 

No one knows it's a *puts on sunglasses* mystery...

[iconoclast]

No one knows it's a *puts on sunglasses* mystery...

YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[ChibiSoma]

Oh look, Marten is still a pansy. No surprise there.

Welp. Nothing ever changes. Good to know.

[Is it cold in here?]

He's not attacking a frightened person. I distinguish that from being a pansy.

[westrim]

Aaaaand they make up without actually resolving or bringing up the issues. Again.    We already knew she had severe relationship stuff, but bullshit is still bullshit. Faye doesn't get a pass because her dad shot himself in front of her and she had a mental breakdown; why does Dora get one because her friends used her to fuck her brother and previous boyfriends fucked her over? Is it because that was other people, not internal, and that somehow makes it just fucking fine for her to be paranoid about the nicest, most faithful guy on the planet? Yes, the use of vulgarity means I'm annoyed that she gets a pass again.  


By the way, finally read some of the previous conversation. I'd add that as one of those guys who can't get past "talking to friend" mode to "talking to romantic interest" mode also have a hard time seeing why anyone would cheat on someone nice enough to be understanding of that and go out with them.

[TheHappyBerry]

I'm glad things didn't go all horribly with yelling and screaming and crying.  But all this "oh no, I'm not mad, we'll work this out, blah, blah, blah" won't work.  The only reason Dora is feeling all remorseful is because Faye called her out on her shit.  Marten doesn't have to go storming in and yelling at her, but if he isn't willing to at least admit when something makes him mad or upsets him, it doesn't matter how much work Dora is willing to put into getting better, it just won't work.

[Graphite]

He did say, "It's something we've gotta fix", though. That implies that they're going to work on the issue in the future, but for this very instant he just wants to reassure her that he's not about to walk away from the relationship.

I find it pretty puzzling that Marten *isn't* mad, but hey, that's how he functions - he was mad, he thought about it, now he's calmly made a decision about it. It might help the situation if Dora had actually been allowed to see firsthand that Marten was mad, but she seems to be finally understanding, thanks to Faye's smackdown, that anger is reasonable in this situation and she was in the wrong, so I think that's what'll make the real difference here.

[Moxie]

Yup, I'll join in on the crowd that's disappointed with this resolution that isn't really one at all. I'm mean, sure, tomorrow's comic might actually have them discuss stuff, but this... sigh.

Dora is just talking all about herself again.
And even when Marten's all "we have something to fix and you needed to listen" she's just all "not mad at me right?"/sad puppy face.
And Marten just lets her get away with it, while "confessing" his "transgressions" or whatever. Le sigh, le sigh.

[Cartilage Head]

I have to say, the art in the most recent strip is very good.

[themacnut]

I'm not sure you guys were reading the dialog in the comic. Me, I'm sure I read Marten say her tendency to blow up is "something we've gotta fix". He nicely, and gently (as is his way) let her know that behavior could NOT continue, while also letting her know he held no grudge. As I believe it was Carl-E who said, a woman with jealously issues should be handled with patience and understanding, NOT by going off on her or summarily dumping her. And Carl's been married over 20 years to a woman not too different from Dora, so I think his advice on this matter should be heeded.

After all, none of us are perfect, we ALL have our issues that could, and probably do, drive our SOs crazy. Should we ALL be dumped because of them? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, we all have our deal-breakers, behavior by an SO that would have us hitting the road, especially after the 3rd or 4th time. Obviously Dora's "crazy bitch moments" aren't a deal-breaker for Marten (yet) and hopefully she'll take this latest blowup as incentive to fix the issues that bring out the crazy BEFORE Marten decides he's finally had enough. We shall see.

Remember, Marten is NOT a wimp. It took me awhile to see it, but he's simply more easygoing and patient than most of the QC cast. It takes a LOT more to push him to the edge. Dora hasn't pushed him there yet, and let's hope she's smart enough to NEVER do so.

[Near Lurker]

I'm surprised her pants fit him that well.  Yes, a chubby waistline on a woman can look thin on a man, but not to that degree.

[Akima]

He's not attacking a frightened person. I distinguish that from being a pansy.

Yeah, a frightened and remorseful person. But then you probably don't regard wallowing in anger and grudge-bearing as necessary for being a real man.

I don't quite understand this torrent of "nothing is resolved" and "Marten should show he's angry". What? He didn't make her grovel enough? Make her feel bad enough? Make it clear enough what a horrible person she is, and how hard she'll have to work to be worthy once more of his affection? If Marten had expressed anger at the original confrontation, that would have been fair enough (though anger is generally bad), but to go away, calm down, and then come back and cold-bloodedly put the boot in would be pretty nasty. Just how much resolution do people expect in one evening? I don't think there's a dog-house in the apartment, so... Marten could make Dora sleep on the couch for a few days or something I suppose?

On a lighter note... I'm sorry Jeph, but there's no way those pants, which look tight-fitting even on Marten's bony bottom, could possibly be Faye's. Even stretch denim can only go so far. On looking at the strip again, I withdraw this.

[pwhodges]

Jeph's made the trousers clearly a bit baggy today (even if still not enough), and there were hints before.

And, children, we know you all like a bit of drama in a comic; but actually Marten's doing this right (even down to the humour of the apparently mistimed disclosure).  Continued conflict is not the right atmosphere for real resolution.

[no one special]

so it's a TL/DR kinda night in the forum (for me anyway)

anyways:

good lord Marten is just as weird and paranoid as Dora is.  I guess they deserve each other.

[pwhodges]

Are you reading the same comic as me?

[Kugai]

I wonder if this is where Dora gets Faye to introduce her to Dr. Corinne?

Nice to know Martens timeing is impeccable as ever.   

[Blackjoker]

I believe Martens timing is only fair. Dora wants full disclosure and probably would have been more irked had he waited or she find out later.

[LeeC]

Ive had panels 1-3 happen a number of times (almost verbatim) with my current girl.

[westrim]

He did say, "It's something we've gotta fix", though. That implies that they're going to work on the issue in the future, but for this very instant he just wants to reassure her that he's not about to walk away from the relationship.

But when is the future? Is it later that day? Next week? The next time she spazzes out because OMG HE HUGGED HANNELORE (hypothetical scenario, do not analyze)? That future strip may be satisfying, but this one is very much not.

I have to say, the art in the most recent strip is very good.

Lol, true.

After all, none of us are perfect, we ALL have our issues that could, and probably do, drive our SOs crazy. Should we ALL be dumped because of them? I don't think so.

Who said that they should break up? It's just that her behavior is bad, and she should be called on it, not coddled (and NO that does not mean yelling).

He's not attacking a frightened person. I distinguish that from being a pansy.

Yeah, a frightened and remorseful person. But then you probably don't regard wallowing in anger and grudge-bearing as necessary for being a real man.

I don't quite understand this torrent of "nothing is resolved" and "Marten should show he's angry". What? He didn't make her grovel enough? Make her feel bad enough? Make it clear enough what a horrible person she is, and how hard she'll have to work to be worthy once more of his affection?

Who asked him to attack her or make her grovel or- wait, are we talking about the comic still? We who are disappointed would have just preferred something along the lines of "I guess I screwed up,""you certainly did, now lets sleep" (do not analyze, I'm a reader, not a writer, Jim!)


If they actually do start discussing, some time in the next few strips/ within a day of comic time, then it'll be fine. But if it is what it looks like right now, a punt to a later incident at a later date, then I'm disappointed.

[TheHappyBerry]

I don't quite understand this torrent of "nothing is resolved" and "Marten should show he's angry". What? He didn't make her grovel enough? Make her feel bad enough? Make it clear enough what a horrible person she is, and how hard she'll have to work to be worthy once more of his affection? If Marten had expressed anger at the original confrontation, that would have been fair enough (though anger is generally bad), but to go away, calm down, and then come back and cold-bloodedly put the boot in would be pretty nasty. Just how much resolution do people expect in one evening? I don't think there's a dog-house in the apartment, so... Marten could make Dora sleep on the couch for a few days or something I suppose?

No, I just wish he would have acknowledged that he was mad.  My imaginary ideal conversation would have gone more like following

Dora: So, you're not mad at me?
Marten: I was, but walked around, thought about it, and am not anymore.

Just an acknowledgement that even if things are back on an even keel now, she did upset him.  Her crazy bitch mode doesn't just affect her, it has consequences on Marten too, and I think both of them acknowledging that will help Dora in trying to fix it.

As it is, I interpreted it more as Marten being all like, you did something wrong, but it didn't really affect me that much, and now let me list all the things I did wrong (even if they really weren't wrong at all).  

I'm glad he is patient and understanding.  Dora, Faye and Hannelore all need that in their own ways and even benefit from it.  And, he isn't a pansy, he's stood up to Steve (and I think others, but I'm not sure of specific events to cite).  He just seems to stand up for others and not himself.

[TheoGB]

I still can't get used to people calling trousers pants. It took me a few seconds to realise that disclosure wasn't as bizarre as it sounded. (Probably mainly because over here we'd also refer to jeans as jeans and so forth, so you'd rarely use trousers that much.)

[Is it cold in here?]

That discussion may have to take place off-screen. Jeph doesn't seem to be fond of that kind of dialog, doing it realistically would be a long wall of text, and it would run the risk of being boring.

Though there are some concrete loose ends to tie up, like whether Faye is allowed to come back to work in the morning.

Marten sure does cool down fast ...

[pwhodges]

I still can't get used to people calling trousers pants.

My grandson lives in Germany with an English and an American parent.  He speaks different forms of English to each of them, like when he went to ask his dad if he had a torch, and then asked his mum for a flashlight.  But yesterday he told them he wanted them only to speak German to him! (he's 4)

[Carl-E]

There are a lot of holes here, and I don't mean in Marten's boxers.  They may not need to be filled, but I find this evening's conversation troubling without them. 

1) Marten doesn't know Faye blew up on Dora.  Without that, would Dora have any remorse?  I think she might still have been (wrongfully) righteously indignant when he returned. 

2) Dora doesn't know Marten saw Sven, nor that Sven told him she's had nothing but crap in relationships in the past.  This is something she's clearly tried to hide, and she may not be cool with the revelation, nor with its source.  But it's the entire reason Marten's treating her with kid gloves! 

3) Dora may not be aware that Marten was mad.  On second thought, the fact that he left for a walk and that Faye told her she may have fucked everything up was probably a clue.  So scratch that one.  But she doesn't know why he's not mad anymore. 

4) Those fucking doe eyes in panel 2.  Just pitiful.   Sorry, that one slipped out. 

Marten's taken the right first step.  People in this condition may well blow up again, or worse, meltdown entirely if not handled carefully.  The ridiculosity helped. 

The night is young.  Nobody's getting any sleep for a while, yet...

[Heranje]

1) Marten doesn't know Faye blew up on Dora.  Without that, would Dora have any remorse?  I think she might still have been (wrongfully) righteously indignant when he returned. 

Does it really matter? Dora's posture and expression in panels 1 and 2 clearly show that she's moved from anger to remorse, and Marten would be able to tell - will it matter to him where that remorse came from?

I agree with the second point, though.

[fifthfiend]

Or at least it implies that there are no male non-douchebags.

Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.
(Get it? The frog is a joke in this metaphor, and by explaining it you're killing it!)

It was a bad, dumb frog.

Joke.

It was a bad, dumb joke.

[raoullefere]

The comic I read:

Marten knows Dora is remorseful because he can see her sitting on the couch, curled up into almost a fetal position and looking doleful when he walks in, as opposed to how she looked when Fay burst in on her (I say this for you to contrast—Marten doesn't need to see the other, having experienced the times when Dora was sure she wasn't wrong). Also, he might have a clue by her asking "Are you gonna break up with me?" That's an admission of guilt and more—it puts Marten in the driver's seat, because he gets to decide what happens. That's submission, folks.

Then Dora apologizes, and Marten accepts—more submission. I think Akima's right, some of you just won't be satisfied without a good grovel. But it's very clear to me who has 'won' (I'll also remind you anyone who has to utterly win an argument with his or her SO better really enjoy winning, because that will, sooner or later, be all they have). Marten accepts—that's what 'it's okay' means—and immediately attaches a condition for continuing the relationship. Then Dora further acknowledges she was wrong by asking if Marten is 'mad' at her. This is an admission that Dora thinks Marten has a right to be angry, and perhaps that why he's not mad is nowhere near as important as the fact that he's not. That's enough for now.

Then the joke, because, again, Marten loves Dora and wants to keep her more than he wants to win. But I don't think the words "full disclosure" are chosen by accident.

Ladies and gentleman, entities and beings, Marten has clearly 'won' and is in control. At the same time, he's showing Dora how unlike those other assholes he truly is. An Alpha-Goth Grade-A asshole, I'm guessing, would need a grovel, and I don't want to think about what else because I'll start foaming at the mouth, and I already replaced one keyboard this month. And if you need to know how to win an argument with the person you love, this is it. You don't crow, you don't require utter submission, and you make sure it's understood where you want things to go from here without being a tool about it. I don't know if it's well known, but a person in a position of strength shows it by being magnanimous. It's the precarious weakling who requires the genuflect.

[Akima]

1) Marten doesn't know Faye blew up on Dora.  Without that, would Dora have any remorse?  I think she might still have been (wrongfully) righteously indignant when he returned.

Does it matter why Dora is remorseful?

2) Dora doesn't know Marten saw Sven, nor that Sven told him she's had nothing but crap in relationships in the past.  This is something she's clearly tried to hide, and she may not be cool with the revelation, nor with its source.  But it's the entire reason Marten's treating her with kid gloves!

I hope Marten isn't so oblivious that he would ignore finding Dora sitting up, obviously frightened, penitent, and apologetic in the middle of the night waiting for him.

3) Dora may not be aware that Marten was mad.  On second thought, the fact that he left for a walk and that Faye told her she may have fucked everything up was probably a clue.

Yes. All this clamouring for Marten to say something like: "I need you to know that you hurt me and made me angry" sounds like something off Dr. Phil.

Edit: Ninja'd! And Raoullefere put it so much better.

[Tergon]

I think we're all making a helluva big assumption here - that this was how Marten was going to deal with things no matter what Dora's reaction was.  Maybe if he was a robot, or a character in a George Lucas film, he'd only have one emotional response, but we know that's not the case.  He can be angry when the situation calls for it.  If he returned home and Dora was still in bitch-mode, I have absolutely no doubt he'd have faced her down because he knew the situation called for it.  He understands damn well that they have to deal with things.  But he walked in the door, saw his girlfriend curled up in a scared sad little ball on the couch, and reacted the way pretty much any sane person would - by comforting her.

Why, exactly, Dora is feeling sad right now isn't important at this moment in time.  Neither is why Marten's not angry.  It does not matter in the slightest.  What matters is that they are talking, they know that they have a problem to take care of, and that they're not screaming at each other.  How on earth could it have helped matters if they were?  And if it wouldn't have helped, why is it important that it's NOT a problem?

Obviously this issue isn't finished between them.  He outright said as much.  But I cannot possibly see how things would be improved right now if Marten told Dora that he was mad at her because she was a bitch.  He's responded perfectly in-character by dealing with this in a nice way.  And now that we know how much it really does affect him, he'll definitely make sure things are resolved.  There's going to be a lot of talking in the future between them, possibly therapy, possibly drive-by water-balloonings of Dora's ex-boyfriends (great stress reliever).  But we absolutely could not have expected any more to have happened in this comic without it being ridiculously over-the-top.

And, as I end my rant and put down the Useless Broom Made Entirely Out Of Dicks, one final note:
I did chuckle to see how baggy the ass of Faye/Marten's pants were in panel 1.  A nice, subtle touch.  


Edit:
And I've been top-trumped by Akima and Raoullefere.  Darn your speedy-typing fingers!   But I think between the three of us we got our point across.

[themacnut]

Yep, Raoullefere did put it best-Marten won, and he didn't feel the need to rub Dora's face in it. It's enough that she realizes she was dead wrong, admits as much, and that things have to change for their relationship to continue. I think Marten handled it right.

[pwhodges]

I disagree that Marten "won" - because there wasn't a competition.  Using the term "win" at all is a major problem in this discussion.

[J]

i'd just like to say that it amuses me that dora's panties match her hair. can we all at least agree on that?

[no one special]

Are you reading the same comic as me as I am?

Yes.

[pwhodges]

Grammar vs  idiom - no winners there, either!

Language is what is used; grammar is a post hoc  attempt to rationalise it, which can be useful while learning.