Topic: Rubicon (Read 6450 times)

yellowfoliage · « **on:** 12 Sep 2010, 17:43 »

Anybody else watching Rubicon on AMC? It works really well as a conspiracy thriller (which is what it's marketed as), but is far more textured and character based than most conspiracy thriller-type shows. Apparently the ratings are not great, so it may not survive for a season two, but I'm going to stay optimistic seeing as how AMC has already renewed Walking Dead and that hasn't even premiered yet.

KvP · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Sep 2010, 19:16 »

I sure hope it doesn't get canceled!

David_Dovey · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Sep 2010, 19:35 »

Was sad when I found out this show wasn't about Julius Caesar

Inlander · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Sep 2010, 20:13 »

We already had one of those. He was played by Ciarán Hinds!

SPOILER:

He got stabbed by a whole bunch of guys in the senate at the end.

David_Dovey · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Sep 2010, 20:50 »

And then there were some boobies

Inlander · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Sep 2010, 21:28 »

And how!

yellowfoliage · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Sep 2010, 10:49 »

Way to talk about Rubicon, guys.

(Although Rome was pretty good)

For those of us who have been watching: Team Kale or Team Truxton?

Vuk · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Sep 2010, 10:34 »

It's a little slow so far, but Breaking Bad and Mad Men were both kind of like that when the started out, and now they're both incredible. I think any good show takes a bit to get up to speed, so it'll be cool following this if it continues (which it should, since it's on AMC).

Tom · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Sep 2010, 15:22 »

I'm reaaly digging this show, I'm at the point now where I want the next episode now. It took me longer to get into Mad Men than Rubicon.

I think we'll get a second season of this but I'm not sure it'll be as good as this one. If they avoid the conspiracy angle and focus on how the job effects the people who do it then I see this show having legs like Mad Men

KvP · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Sep 2010, 16:27 »

Yeah I'm not sure how to feel about where the critical plot is heading (although interviews with the showrunner seem to suggest that there are some big twists ahead), especially considering how the nature of the conspiracy has changed. The guy who created the show was kicked off after the pilot was filmed over "creative differences", and you can basically tell why - in the pilot they apparently engineer a train crash to kill one guy, and in later episodes the conspiracy seems, at least on the surface, to be a relatively small-potatoes affair, it's white collar crime crossed with espionage, basically. They don't seem to have the grand Deus Ex-style plan or frightening power they apparently had in the pilot. There are apparently other minor details that have changed from the pilot to subsequent episodes.

As a matter of fact, if you're curious at all about Rubicon I would advise starting with the second episode and go from there. It takes until the third or fourth episode to gain steam, but The Shield this ain't. It's a meticulous show.

Tom · « **Reply #10 on:** 04 Oct 2010, 13:46 »

Holy shit! This week's episode was so good, the last 10 minutes alone were kinda intense.

KvP · « **Reply #11 on:** 04 Oct 2010, 19:37 »

There's already a twitter / email campaign underway to "Save Rubicon". http://twitter.com/SaveRubicon / email [email protected]

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #12 on:** 04 Oct 2010, 20:33 »

I'm getting pretty into this I must say. I was skeptical at first. A little indifferent/bored even. But I ended up watching a bunch of dvd-r'd episodes in a row and kinda got sucked in. It's slow but compelling and somehow I want to keep watching. It's by far the least good of the three big ticket AMC shows but definitely enjoyable. Is it in danger of being canceled or something?

KvP · « **Reply #13 on:** 05 Oct 2010, 00:18 »

Ratings have been weak since the second episode, and that's understandable - until last night's episode there really wasn't much you could say against the charge that the show was boring, because it often was if you were not invested in the characters and lacking patience for the plot. It's a lot like The Wire actually - that shows pace was stolid when you watched it week-to-week, the ratings for were never good and like Rubicon it never really provided any opportunities for newbies to invest themselves in the show mid-plot (even if you dropped in on, say, the third episode there would be a lot of confusing elements). But Rubicon is really starting to tighten up in the home stretch.

AMC has not canceled a show yet, but this is their third original series and given that The Walking Dead premieres in a few weeks Rubicon's status as the runt of the litter is probably going to get worse. All of AMC's shows are cult shows but Rubicon's is pretty small. If critics rallied behind it the chances of renewal would be better but most everyone is frustrated by the slack pace up until this point and their minds are not likely to be changed. It's really going to come down on how generous AMC is feeling. I give it a 50/50 chance.

In all honesty, I do wonder how the show would've turned out had the original vision for it prevailed. Something tells me that the reason the creator got the boot was that his conspiracy had something to do with 9/11 and the network wasn't willing to cross that line.

Tom · « **Reply #14 on:** 05 Oct 2010, 01:29 »

That's what I thought. Bromell's replacement theory still easily allows for 9/11 to have been a situation much like the 1989 Ufa train disaster, a disaster possibly engineered by Truxton & Co. inorder to maximise their own wealth etc. I don't think that the show would have benefitted from being a 9/11 conspiracy theory and it definitely wouldn't have been as intimate as it is now.

Also, this is Zach Whedon's second episode (after 'Look to the Ant'). I'd really like to see more from him on this show.

KvP · « **Reply #15 on:** 05 Oct 2010, 02:12 »

Yeah, I mean in the first episode one of the first things you learn about Will is that his family died on 9/11, but after Bromell took over that detail has only been revisited once in passing, as Truxton outlines his vision for Will's future.

KvP · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 Oct 2010, 23:05 »

Pretty damn tense penultimate episode. Spoilers ahead...

So yeah, slather some of this on your mind-grapes... We would normally suspect that the trepidation Spangler showed (and the sentimental speechifying he made towards Kale) when he received the photo of Kale / Maggie / Katherine was due to the idea that he must now figure out a way to deal with all four of these anti-conspirators.

But wait. We now know, more or less, why Tom Rhumor shot himself. He was given the kiss of death, the four-leaf clover, because as Truxton put it he "compromised operational integrity". Could it be that the photo sent from Atlas is a portent of a clover in Truxton's future? API under Truxton is likely to be seen by his co-conspirators as an irreparable mess and a clear liability. Spangler falling on his sword and taking with him the evidence Will needs to blow the whole thing open would be a nice left-field ending for the season. Very X-Files-esque, I think.

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Oct 2010, 14:48 »

It's possible but the only problem with that theory is that the cabal needs someone high up in API to continue exploiting situations for financial gain. With Spangler dead, who would feed them the information so valuable to their machinations? Which isn't to say Spangler won't kill himself, it's just that, if I'm understanding their setup correctly, the evil business dudes need him alive.

KvP · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Oct 2010, 20:01 »

That's something to consider, but I'd think that the risk is just too great for them. They obviously fear Will, and if he can link them to acts of terror / treason and he's progressed to a point where he's practically untouchable (and I'd say he has, now that there are two other API employees that would need to be bumped off as well, and there's no way that a company full of people who discern patterns for a living wouldn't pick up on that), their only option is to pull the plug and get out of Dodge. That means Spangler has to go. He's probably the only person directly connected to the evidence Will has.

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Oct 2010, 16:54 »

spoilers

Finale thoughts? I'm thinking the show will only be 1 season and frankly that's ok. It was fine but really nothing special. To be honest I had really high hopes for this show and was fairly disappointed. Looking back, I don't care much about any of the characters and the central plot arc feels fairly contrived and uninspired. Some decent acting here and there and a handful of tense moments but in general it was fairly meh. Andy (and Andie or however its spelled) as a agent: wow what a twist! Only it didn't matter, it could have been absolutely anyone who led Katherine Rumor and then ran off a few minutes later. Rumor dying: not that big a deal. We already knew the Atlas dudes were willing to kill to keep a secret so it wasn't particularly shocking, especially considering what a largely useless character she was. Even the fallout from a massive fucking suicide bombing on American soil felt completely understated. I feel like there were lots of dropped balls and missed opportunities with the show as a whole and, while pleasant enough, I'm done with it. Here's hoping The Walking Dead makes AMC a 3 for 4 network!

Inlander · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 Oct 2010, 18:04 »

They kind of crapped the bed a little bit with the finale, but in a way that's unavoidable in a show in which one of the chief pleasures has been seeing the pieces of the puzzle fall into place so slowly and intricately: when the puzzle's finally been put together it's bound to be a bit of a come-down (though the show didn't help itself with that ridiculous reveal of Andy as a secret agent/worst bodyguard ever). I have to say that I watched the entire first season in about the space of a week, finishing with three episodes back-to-back last night, so my experience of it would naturally differ from people who watched it week to week, but I came to really enjoy spending time inside API and I'd even go so far as to say that in the space of only one season Rubicon built itself the best ensemble of characters on any current show that isn't Mad Men. In fact the character-based/workplace material in the show was clearly the strongest part of the show (although with the final couple of episodes the workplace stuff folded into the main plot in a pretty neat way, I thought). If they only make one season I won't particularly miss the conspiracy stuff, though I did appreciate how refreshingly low-stakes the conspiracy was (basically just a bunch of guys trying to make lots and lots of money) - but I will miss spending time with the characters.

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 Oct 2010, 21:28 »

Thing is, there wasn't really a big reveal to the slow burning puzzle. It was pretty obvious long before the end exactly what was going on and while we didn't know what the next orchestrated event was basically until it happened, we knew that there was a business cabal profiting off disaster and Spangler was involved and they were eliminating people dangerous to their project so none of that was particularly exciting once people started saying it. It didn't make sense that they would suddenly give up after one failed attempt at killing Will. Too much money was at stake for them to drop it all over one dude. They would have just hired another hitman. Their retreat b/c of that setback seemed really implausible to me. Also, the scene where the other evil business guys decide to oust Spangler was HILARIOUS. Where the hell were they supposed to be where there was a table in a pool of light inside a giant and otherwise pitch black room?? I literally laughed out loud when I saw that. I'm being a little harsh, I liked the show but I was never totally thrilled by it.

KvP · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 Oct 2010, 21:38 »

Quote from: TheFuriousWombat on 18 Oct 2010, 21:28

It didn't make sense that they would suddenly give up after one failed attempt at killing Will. They would have just hired another hitman. Their retreat b/c of that setback seemed really implausible to me.

It makes perfect sense. The reason they deigned to kill Rhumor was because her death would not arouse general suspicion. As for Will,

Quote from: KvP on 13 Oct 2010, 20:01

They obviously fear Will, and if he can link them to acts of terror / treason and he's progressed to a point where he's practically untouchable (and I'd say he has, now that there are two other API employees that would need to be bumped off as well, and there's no way that a company full of people who discern patterns for a living wouldn't pick up on that)

Past the third episode or so, Rubicon existed in a world that was more or less realistic. The conspirators are not omniscient and they are actively financing and directing terrorist attacks on US soil. I don't know about you, but if I were involved in such a business I would cut my losses at the first sign of trouble. Better to live with my gains than get greedy and end up getting a firing squad for high fucking treason.

As for the Conspiracy Room, looked like a Star Chamber of sorts.

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 Oct 2010, 21:45 »

Guess that makes sense.

As for the Star Chamber comparison, that makes it even goofier if anything. Nobody actually plots evil schemes in places like that. I felt like I was watching an Austin Powers outtake.

Tom · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 Oct 2010, 01:28 »

Episodes 3-12 had some the best moments of TV I've seen this year. This show deserves another chance more than Weeds doesn't need another episode. I'm sure the more goofy stuff was the result of tying up the messy leftover threads from the shows previous path. It has more room now to be Bromell's Rubicon.

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 Oct 2010, 07:42 »

I'm just wondering what the next season could be about. I can't see this particular story line continuing over an entire new season, can you? Truxton dies, the cabal takes a break from being nefarious, life goes on. It would be pretty weird if that happened and then all of a sudden a brand new conspiracy popped up and Will got mixed up in it. Point is, this felt more like a very long movie than a TV show in that there could maybe be another hour or two with this story but that's it. They backed themselves into a corner if you ask me. Maybe the producers found out the show wasn't going to continue (I'm guessing it won't, all personal feelings aside) and decided to resolve things in the way they did for that reason. After all, TV shows are constantly changing throughout the filming process and I doubt the final episodes were even written until a couple episodes in.

Inlander · « **Reply #26 on:** 19 Oct 2010, 15:05 »

Do you think Truxton will kill himself, though? He seems like the kind of guy who'd say "Fuck 'em all" and cling on tenaciously. That could make for a pretty interesting season - he's already strangely likeable and it would be a cool way of playing with audience sympathies.

KvP · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 Oct 2010, 15:54 »

Bromell's said that the next season is planned out and if it happens it will be much more episodic than S1 was. I assume they'll stick with the workplace drama elements that worked so well. I'm not complaining.

Tom · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 Nov 2010, 11:15 »

AMC canceled Rubicon. After they renewed the Walking Dead it kinda felt inevitable.

KvP · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 Nov 2010, 16:39 »

boooooooo

Tom · « **Reply #30 on:** 11 Nov 2010, 16:55 »

Hopefully AMC's next two shows, The Killing (13 episode oder following the aftermath of the homicide of a little girl in Seattle) and Hell on Wheels (which surprisingly is not about bikers but the Trans-continental railway) will more than make up for it.

EDIT: Hell on Wheels is a stupid name for a show.

Vuk · « **Reply #31 on:** 11 Nov 2010, 21:29 »

I'm actually so fucking bummed that this was canceled. I just finished season 1, and the show DID move slowly, but it got so much better in the last few episodes. I guess that's what they get for ending on a cliffhanger, and the oil spill part of the storyline seemed like kind of a risky move (though I love that they did that).

Inlander · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Nov 2010, 22:11 »

Surprisingly, I'm not too cut up about this news. On the one hand, I absolutely loved the first season and I think the characters were genuinely some of the best and most well-rounded characters on any current T.V. show, right the way through the cast. On the other hand, it seemed like it was always a show at odds about what it wanted to be, which is not surprising given all that went on behind the scenes at the start of it, and it's difficult to imagine how it could have continued after the first season without becoming either clunky ("now there's another conspiracy! Or suddenly a whole lot extra layer of complexity to the existing conspiracy that was never previously hinted at!") or rote ("ho-hum, what's our national security crisis going to be this week?"). Though I'd love to watch season after season of Kale Ingram being basically the coolest guy on T.V., and I'll be forever curious about whether Truxton Spangler went off and killed himself or whether he decided "Screw you guys", I also would've hated to see any of the characters become boring and familiar.

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Nov 2010, 23:47 »

A show about the transcontinental railroad sounds way WAY cooler than some lame modern conspiracy theory nonsense. The Rubicon guys had their chance and didn't pull off a wholly compelling show so something better deserves to take its place. It's a dog eat dog world, dudes.

KvP · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 00:20 »

Quote from: TheFuriousWombat on 11 Nov 2010, 23:47

A show about the transcontinental railroad sounds way WAY cooler than some lame modern conspiracy theory nonsense.

It's called Hell on Wheels.

Vuk · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 09:17 »

Haha, I just remembered that scene when Kale Ingram's boyfriend was playing Hot Chip, and then he came in all "turn this off, it's awful".

Tom · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 11:23 »

I think it was that moment that sold me Kale Ingram's character.

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #37 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 14:07 »

Quote from: KvP on 12 Nov 2010, 00:20

Quote from: TheFuriousWombat on 11 Nov 2010, 23:47
A show about the transcontinental railroad sounds way WAY cooler than some lame modern conspiracy theory nonsense.
It's called Hell on Wheels.

Yeah but the mid-19th century was a badass time in American history. Maybe it's just that my thesis is centered around the period of the first transcontinental railroads and they play a role in it so I've been reading ungodly amounts about the era but trust me, it's cool.

KvP · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 Nov 2010, 17:57 »

Hell on Wheels.

Anyway, best thing that could come of this is another show from Henry Bromell and his bros. Include Arliss Howard in some capacity.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: Rubicon (Read 6450 times)