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Faye catches Marigold reading Slash

2 (2.4%)

Tai WROTE "Quidditch Field Idyll"

3 (3.7%)

WILL YOU SIGN MY NETBOOK

4 (4.9%)

"It's really good though!"

0 (0%)

Wanna come to dinner?

1 (1.2%)

Marigold has no idea, does she?

24 (29.3%)

Novel Euphemism

10 (12.2%)

It's got lots of potential!

0 (0%)

B-but yea, TONS of potential!

4 (4.9%)

You have to show people WHY it's sexy.

4 (4.9%)

Ron... and SNAPE...

16 (19.5%)

I give up.

14 (17.1%)

Total Members Voted: 70

[Coco]

Wow, a lot happened since I last looked at the board. Let me see if I can clear some of the rhetoric to find the discussion points.

1. Hanners and Sven were both well aware of what their "date" would entail and went in with eyes open making Dora's freak out ridiculous.
2. Mari did not enter with her eyes open, she may or may not know that Tai was a lesbian but she certainly doesn't recognize flirting when it happens, therefore IN THIS SITUATION it MAY have been appropriate for Dora or Faye (lets not forget she was there too) to let Mari know that Tai may think of this as a date.
3. Some people find Tai's flirting with Dora not only off putting but cruel to Marten and predatory
4. Many have problems with her recounting of her SMIF relationships
5. Some (including myself) think that she is just teasing Marten and that Dora enjoys the flirting
6. Some (including myself) think her SMIF relationships are the result of inexperience and immaturity that is being corrected with time.
7. I may have first introduced the "sexual predator" aspect to the conversation. I was just trying to point out the hyperbole that was going on, not implying that she was or that anyone actually thought of her that way. I turned out to be wrong. Oops.
8. Some believe the negative reaction to the situation may involve homophobia.
9. Some (including myself) think that it stems from Tai coming across as less than exemplary in the retelling of her relationship exploits.
10. I argued that when Tai is told to back off, she respects that request such as with Hanners. Marten had to use his serious face, but she took it well and without defensiveness. I would prefer this situation with someone like that who is a known quantity than with Dale, who no one in the cast really knows. We (the audience) don't know him either. Remember, we just assume he is a good guy and Mari's OTP.
11. Netbooks, what's up with that?

I don't have the energy to look up a whole bunch of comics where Dora, Marten and Tai all kid around in a friendly way (i.e. smiling, laughing) about Tai hitting on Dora. But that is how I remember it. Also, Tai doesn't exactly come to Dora in the night, whispering sweet nothings (now I'm writing fanfic) so I think suggesting that she tries to break them up is, again, extreme hyperbole. I also remember that Tai really just wants out of the SMIF polyamory high jinks and just doesn't know how to do it. She's slept with them, and lives in close quarters with them making the situation more troublesome and she is attempting to expand her social circle out from that environment which has become toxic for her. This is based on inference from the comic such as her spending more time with the core cast and that she has not referenced the SMIF ladies in some time. I may be giving her too much credit.
I suppose I have come around to thinking that it may have been appropriate for Dora (or Faye) to let Mari know that this is likely a date. However, re-reading yesterday's comic it seems the whole thing happened rather fast and I don't know when such a warning would have been made without it being an awkward interruption right in front of everyone that really would have humiliated all involved. Therefore, I prefer to think that Dora just decided to stand back and enjoy the cute/awkwardness of the whole thing. Like I did.
I concur that we will learn a lot about both Tai and Mari in the next comic.

[Mr_Rose]

Wow. Just, wow.  

You gotta understand; from my perspective this is like when you make that first cast of the morning over the mirror-flat lake waters, just as the Sun is peeking over the mountains in the distance and this goddamn huge trout leaps clear out of the water to take your line in mid-air.
I'm sort of perversely proud it only took one post...

[fixed11]

haha This comic will be funny stuff  since  one of the girls thinks shes into girls but shes not and  shes all like 'whoa", and then the one girl will blush and think she'll be raped but it will all be a hilarious misunderstanding.

I love anime.

[Olymander]

Okay, you're being even more clueless than Marigold. I though you had figured that Tai was hitting on Marigold after after your last post, but I guess not. YES Tai is hitting on her- how is that even debatable? What it means is what's debatable- to me it doesn't mean she's a predator, just promiscuous, which we already knew about her.

You know, I "get" what you guys are all arguing about in general, but I've been re-reading these last 3 comics, and... from my little island all the way over here... I disagree.  I don't think Tai's making overtures at all.  At least, not sexual ones.  If anything, _Marigold_ is making all the overtures, albeit unknowingly.  As I see things, in #1786, Tai shows up, gets essentially mobbed by rabid fan after noting that she wrote said fanfic.  Advance - Marigold.

#1787 - Tai the author expounds a little on said fan-fiction, is mildly embarassed by over-gushing Marigold.  Her statement of "You wanna come have dinner with me" _may_ be some sort of come-on, but more in my opinion is more likely simply a "I've never met someone that liked this story that much before, I want to know more about how you really feel about it".  Marigold, of course, continues babbling in effusive fan-mode, stroking Tai's ego.  Enh.  I'd call this maybe even in terms of advances from Marigold or Tai.

Faye and Dora, outside, can obviously see that if Tai wants to, she can view all of the attention from Marigold _as a pass by Marigold after Tai_.  Their responses then become  - "Marigold has no idea (she's acting in a way that makes it seem as if she's coming on to Tai), does she?" "Nope." "Should we warn her (that the way she's acting is very suggestive)?"  "Nope."  This could, admittedly, be Dora being a "dick" as previously stated.  Or maybe it's just that Faye and Dora are so bemused by the fact that the mouse (Marigold), is roaring like a lion (albeit unconsciously), that they want to see where it goes.  Also note that so far, as far as I can tell, Tai has made no overt passes, so all Faye and Dora would/could do at this point is seriously embarass Marigold by pointing out the essential double entendres she's making.

#1788 - Tai continues to make no advances, until possibly the last panel.  Marigold again does all the suggesting.  Tai points out the double entendre Marigold is making.  It goes right over her head.

Now, you can cast aspersions on Tai's past actions (with other people) all you like.  I'm just noting that in these last three comics, everything she's done has been totally above-board.  Maybe too much is being read into her actions?

Edit - made clarification that Tai's past actions have pretty much been with other people.  She may or may not make the same pattern here, it's hard to say.

[haikupoet]

Poor Marigold... you're so money and you don't even want it...

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

I do not in the least buy this line about "Oh, Tai was only kidding when she made those creepy passes at Dora in front of Marten." I have seen people do that. They're marking territory--they're telling you, in the least subtle way possible, that they are gunning for your significant other the minute you fuck up. It's exactly what it sounds like, where I come from.

Even if it's some weird jokey ha-ha way of defusing sexual tension? It still sounds really creepy and skeezy. It's all like:

"Ha ha, I'd like to fuck your girlfriend! Ha ha!"

"...Ha ha! Are you serious? And why are you saying that?"

"Kinda! Don't worry! I won't! (yet!)"

And then there's a fine slice of awkward silence! So yeah! I don't care what spirit it was meant in, that was Bad on Tai.

...Perversely, that may be why I kind of like the idea of Tai x Marigold, that she will leave Dora and Marten alone. As well as my desire to see Mar-bear hook up with someone successfully, the girl deserves better than an endless string of Life Lessons. She should get to have some fun. And, frankly, if Tai can pull it off, more power to her, because Mar really is unattached and inexperienced. Hell, she could really help Tai get out of the polyamorous lifestyle Tai seems to have fallen out of love with.

[westrim]

You know, I "get" what you guys are all arguing about in general, but I've been re-reading these last 3 comics, and... from my little island all the way over here... I disagree.  I don't think Tai's making overtures at all.  At least, not sexual ones.  If anything, _Marigold_ is making all the overtures, albeit unknowingly.  As I see things, in #1786, Tai shows up, gets essentially mobbed by rabid fan after noting that she wrote said fanfic.  Advance - Marigold.

#1787 - Tai the author expounds a little on said fan-fiction, is mildly embarassed by over-gushing Marigold.  Her statement of "You wanna come have dinner with me" _may_ be some sort of come-on, but more in my opinion is more likely simply a "I've never met someone that liked this story that much before, I want to know more about how you really feel about it".  Marigold, of course, continues babbling in effusive fan-mode, stroking Tai's ego.  Enh.  I'd call this maybe even in terms of advances from Marigold or Tai.

Faye and Dora, outside, can obviously see that if Tai wants to, she can view all of the attention from Marigold _as a pass by Marigold after Tai_.  Their responses then become  - "Marigold has no idea (she's acting in a way that makes it seem as if she's coming on to Tai), does she?" "Nope." "Should we warn her (that the way she's acting is very suggestive)?"  "Nope."  This could, admittedly, be Dora being a "dick" as previously stated.  Or maybe it's just that Faye and Dora are so bemused by the fact that the mouse (Marigold), is roaring like a lion (albeit unconsciously), that they want to see where it goes.  Also note that so far, as far as I can tell, Tai has made no overt passes, so all Faye and Dora would/could do at this point is seriously embarass Marigold by pointing out the essential double entendres she's making.

#1788 - Tai continues to make no advances, until possibly the last panel.  Marigold again does all the suggesting.  Tai points out the double entendre Marigold is making.  It goes right over her head.

Now, you can cast aspersions on Tai's past actions (with other people) all you like.  I'm just noting that in these last three comics, everything she's done has been totally above-board.  Maybe too much is being read into her actions?

There's a lot I can say, but I'll just say "brutal criticisms". Oh, and if praising someone's work= please, please, lets go fuck!, that is one damn interesting island you're on.

I do not in the least buy this line about "Oh, Tai was only kidding when she made those creepy passes at Dora in front of Marten." I have seen people do that. They're marking territory--they're telling you, in the least subtle way possible, that they are gunning for your significant other the minute you fuck up. It's exactly what it sounds like, where I come from.

...Perversely, that may be why I kind of like the idea of Tai x Marigold, that she will leave Dora and Marten alone. As well as my desire to see Mar-bear hook up with someone successfully, the girl deserves better than an endless string of Life Lessons. She should get to have some fun. And, frankly, if Tai can pull it off, more power to her, because Mar really is unattached and inexperienced. Hell, she could really help Tai get out of the polyamorous lifestyle Tai seems to have fallen out of love with.

Where do you come from? All I know is that it's not space.

And if all the flowers at the college can't keep Tai occupied, I don't think Marigold can.

[tbones]

And if all the flowers at the college can't keep Tai occupied, I don't think Marigold can.

Maybe all the flowers at the college didn't have marigold's boobs?

EDIT
I mean, tai has given a thought about be in a 1 to 1 relationship, and maybe she finds marigold really attractive
(Although mar doesn't have a clue about tai's sexual orientations, apparently)

.... Or maybe jeph is fucking with us.

[innermoppet]

Wow, even for the usual QC comments there is a lot of overthinking going on.

The last comic pretty explicitly shows that Tai believes this is a hookup and that Marigold has no clue.

I like Tai. She's young, she likes sex and she has a lot of it. Nothing wrong with that.

Dora continued hitting on Faye after she and Marten hooked up (to the best of my recollection) and no one shouted about her being a sexual predator. Some people are just flirty.

[Border Reiver]

.... Or maybe jeph is fucking with us.

Ya think?

[Olymander]

There's a lot I can say, but I'll just say "brutal criticisms". Oh, and if praising someone's work= please, please, lets go fuck!, that is one damn interesting island you're on.

Have we established that Tai is into "rough play"?  I freely admit that she's not one of the characters I follow substantially, so I don't know if it's already been established.  If not, I don't really view it as anything more than what she actually says.  Is it impossible that she wants actual criticism of her work?  In that sense, her context could be taken as "how brutal are your criticisms, really?"  I don't recall how much Tai knows about Marigold.  If she knows that Marigold is a bit of a recluse stuck in her room all the time with little outside social interaction, this could just be a matter of "and from your _vast_ experience, how brutal can you really get?"  Somewhat condescending, admittedly, but hardly sexual in nature.

I did say it was a little island, but I'm not sure that Tai herself realized that what Marigold was saying could pass for advances until _Marigold invited her up to her room_.  All Tai was asking for beforehand was dinner together (which may or may not have been a pass), which Marigold then escalated into a "want to come up to my room?"  Note the somewhat surprised/bemused look that Tai has on her face in panel 3 of #1788.  I really don't think she realized where this was going until right then.  Up until that point, she was maybe in what could be called "English Lit mode", going on about what she knows about writing.  After that, of course, she makes the double entendre, which goes right over Marigold's head (my mistake for misattributing the double entendre earlier).

Also, of course, now that it's out in the open (for her), she'll be thinking about it, so we're headed right into everything you were complaining about before.  I'm just not as sure it was inevitably headed that way up until now.

[Coco]

I did say it was a little island

Well, not too small because I think I live there. It has more than crossed my mind that we may be wrong to assume that Tai has any lascivious intentions at all. In fact, if Tai can be said to have a "type" based on her attraction to Dora and Bailey it would have to be tall, extremely slender, with smallish....tracts of land. Practically the anti-Mari looks wise. Tai may just enjoy having a fan slobber on her. Who doesn't enjoy getting a little attention and respect. Being a short lady and knowing the tendency of peers to treat you as a child based on height, I would be lapping up that kind of attention also. And come on, that set up was too good to pass up. In the same situation I would have thrown in a "so that's what they're calling it these days." And I have no interest in the ladies.

[tbones]

.... Or maybe jeph is fucking with us.

Ya think?

Yes. I really do think that.

And i like your avatar picture! It's really nice!

[MarkCorrigan]

Ok, people this is getting seriously weird now.

I'm not even remotely upset at Tai, nor do I think Tai is a bad person. She can be selfish, but about the only character I can recall NOT being selfish at least some of the time is Marten and that's because he's some sort of alien. I don't think Tai is to blame for this situation, she doesn't know how clueless Mari is and it's obvious that she genuinely thinks Mari is inviting her back for sex. I don't think she's a predator, and I don't think she considers other people to be objects. Anyone else remember her jealous reaction when Marten said he thought Bailey was hot? Not the reaction of someone who sees girls as sex objects.

Secondly, this has equally nothing to do with Sven OR Tai, except in so much as Dora reacted differently with both. I understand that Dora has history with Sven, but that's no excuse for talking to Hanners like she was a stupid child and trying to stop something because SHE had a personal issue with it, even after Hanners explained she knew what Sven was like and what she was doing. Faye told her it was stupid but in the end she backed off and didn't harass Hanners as much as Dora did when she got back. On the other hand, Dora is clearly happy that something so "cute" as a total sitcom misunderstanding between two people, of which one of whom isn't even the right sexual orientation for it to work and she knows it that will likely end in disaster in some way. Not because Tai is evil, and certainly not as some moral crusaders have claimed because I'm afraid Tai will "catch teh gay!"  ( ) but because Dora has intentionally set up an awkward situation because she personally thinks it's cute, not thinking about how Mari will react or how Tai will take the inevitable rejection.

Further, I'm not homophobic or sexophobic. That's a ludicrous assessment of my annoyance at DORA. D-O-R-A. Not Tai. I would be just as pissed at her if Dora had let Mari go off equally oblivious with Steve or Dale. I doubt it would have happened that way because A. Mari seems to know where she is more with Dale for some reason and B I doubt Dora would be all doe eyed dreamer if it were a guy.

Finally, seriously people, this is about Dora manipulating people by trying to force their hands in decisions. I'm not saying that Dora should have warned Mari about Tai, but that she should have told her that Tai is obviously under the assumption that Mari is flirting with her. She's trying to withhold the relevant information from her because she thinks the situation is cute. In the Hanners situation, it took Hanners practically yelling at her to get her to realise she was being a bitch about the situation despite the fact that Hanners clearly knew what she was getting into.

[jordinyc]

I have just one thing to say, and it isn't "yes, lesbian sex!" ....

tl;dr

[Heliphyneau]

*sigh*

More like TL/SHR at this point.  (Too long; shouldn't have read.)

There were folks I was going to quote as examples of sensible responses, but I don't have the energy to slog through everything again.  I'll simply say that someone who is fragile remains so only due to other people overprotecting them, and that a misunderstood sexual advance does not necessarily result in trauma.  I think Marigold and Tai will be fine -- embarrassed, but fine -- with the possibility of personal growth for both of them.  Don't know how it will go; satisfied to wait and see.

*sets dickbroom down; goes to see if any popcorn is left*

[peterh]

I think Marigold and Tai will be fine -- embarrassed, but fine -- with the possibility of personal growth for both of them. 

Seconded.

[eyosgkxb]

Well, I tried to stay out of here as long as I could but you have forced my hand Jeph.

I'm very prepared to see if you can bring a mature topic into this arc, just be sure that Tai insists on stopping at a liqour store on the way back to Mari's place for some plot device rape fuel.

[jordinyc]

..... someone who is fragile remains so only due to other people overprotecting them, and that a misunderstood sexual advance does not necessarily result in trauma.  I think Marigold and Tai will be fine...

Well yeah. I don't think it'll end badly like each one will be crying in a corner. It'll just be "ok so this is where I keep my slashy stuff but it's as bad as the lemooooowhy are you taking off your ... what are you .. WAH! AAAAH OMG OMG OMG OMG OGM OMG OMG OMG" running in the bathroom, and Tai's like "oh .. um .. oh .. sorry" and thru the door you hear "it's ok" and Tai's all "um, igg" and ... well, I don't want to speculate, just a lot of talks, hugs, and handshakes, and we're back to normal after a week. Two at the latest.

[raoullefere]

Well, I tried to stay out of here as long as I could but you have forced my hand Jeph.

I'm very prepared to see if you can bring a mature topic into this arc, just be sure that Tai insists on stopping at a liqour store on the way back to Mari's place for some plot device rape fuel.

Oh. god, I was so sure that was a link to TV Tropes that I moused over it.

[eyosgkxb]

Well, I tried to stay out of here as long as I could but you have forced my hand Jeph.

I'm very prepared to see if you can bring a mature topic into this arc, just be sure that Tai insists on stopping at a liqour store on the way back to Mari's place for some plot device rape fuel.

Oh. god, I was so sure that was a link to TV Tropes that I moused over it.

Depending on how the next couple panels go, it just might turn into one.

[iduguphergrave]

Holy god I've been lurking for a looong time before being able to post and I've hardly seen the forum blow up like this. I skimmed but I don't have the attention span to wade through it all so bear with me:

Knowing Tai's nature, the possibility of romantic things happening might have entered her mind when she asked Marigold to dinner, but I don't think it was her main goal; as far as I know fanfic writers meeting in real life is kinda rare so Tai might have just been happy to meet someone with a passion about it that equaled hers. What I'm saying is Tai didn't set out on this date thinking 'HAHAHA ANOTHER INNOCENT SOUL TO RAPE,' I think it was more like 'sweet we can get our nerd on, and later if everything goes right we can get something else on.' Tai's a little too sex-driven, it's true, but she's not a predator, and once Marigold rebuffs her, she'll accept it and awkwardness will ensue.

Which brings me to my next point: I agree with akronnick whole-heartedly, Dora and Faye were totally in the right by not interfering. Marigold is an adult and still has a lot of growing up to do, and at her age the best way for her to do it is by making her own mistakes. After the awkwardness happens, Marigold will be embarrassed but she'll learn a valuable lesson. And who knows, maybe she won't rebuff Tai and learn something else entirely. The point is, you never know until you try, and Marigold's got a lot of trying to catch up on.

For the people comparing Tai to Sven: Interesting, I think you could draw some interesting parallels there, but it still doesn't mean that Dora and/or Faye should have interfered like they did for Hannelore, because Marigold is not like Hannelore, at least not completely. Dora felt it necessary to intervene on Hanners' behalf because (in Dora's eyes, anyway) Hanners is extremely sheltered, extremely naive, and has absolutely no romantic experience. She also has a mental instability that would cause her to freak out in a big bad way if something went wrong on the date. Marigold, though a bit naive herself, isn't as sheltered - even though she didn't today, she can pick up on innuendo (when Angus was commenting on how she and Hanners were "enjoying themselves" the night she stayed over: Marigold caught it; it went right over Hannelore's head), she reads very sexual fanfic, and when drunk, she aggressively came on to her roommate. As closed-off as she is, she's quite a few steps above Hanners. Bottom-line: Marigold going with Tai is quite a bit different than Hannelore going with Sven.

People, this isn't that big a deal. Like I said I feel a little bad Marigold and Tai since chances are they're both going to experience some disappointment tonight (tonight comic-time), but hey, shit happens, you learn from it and grow up that much more.

Man somebody else posted while I was typing this. Ah screw it I don't feel like another wall of text. If I've repeated someone else here, friggin sue me!

[Mr_Rose]

..... someone who is fragile remains so only due to other people overprotecting them, and that a misunderstood sexual advance does not necessarily result in trauma.  I think Marigold and Tai will be fine...

Well yeah. I don't think it'll end badly like each one will be crying in a corner. It'll just be "ok so this is where I keep my slashy stuff but it's as bad as the lemooooowhy are you taking off your ... what are you .. WAH! AAAAH OMG OMG OMG OMG OGM OMG OMG OMG" running in the bathroom, and Tai's like "oh .. um .. oh .. sorry" and thru the door you hear "it's ok" and Tai's all "um, igg" and ... well, I don't want to speculate, just a lot of talks, hugs, and handshakes, and we're back to normal after a week. Two at the latest.

Or it happens when Mari's webcam is on (because Dale hacked it) and her whole guild sees (but not hears) everything and many, many tall conclusions are jumped from a standing start.

[AsinineAxioms]

Well, I tried to stay out of here as long as I could but you have forced my hand Jeph.

I'm very prepared to see if you can bring a mature topic into this arc, just be sure that Tai insists on stopping at a liqour store on the way back to Mari's place for some plot device rape fuel.

Oh. god, I was so sure that was a link to TV Tropes that I moused over it.

You are not alone.

To these recent developments in Dora's character, I will say this: 'Never question another man's motive. His wisdom, yes, but not his motives.' -Dwight D. Eisenhower. I don't believe that Dora is fundamentally a bad person. She wants what's best for her friends, and sometimes, being the somewhat controlling/demanding person that she is, she expresses that in ways that aren't quite acceptable. Not telling Marigold about Tai's intents is a clear example of this. But is she a bad person? I don't think so. Misguided? Certainly. Lacking in character? Somewhat. But not bad.

As for Tai- meh, still making up my mind about her.

[eyosgkxb]

lots of words

You were right about one thing, I've endured a lot of situations following this web comic from the beginning but I never ever even entertained joining into this fray of fanboy/girl discussion retardation. The amount of people coming out of the woodwork for this is amazing.

Other than that, Tai is basically a female version of Sven, and if she indeed goes after/gets with Marigold, she's proving it by being selfish and self absorbed. Look a fan, let's see what she tastes like. If she uses alcohol or something then shes a common rapist.

[Dliessmgg]

Well, I tried to stay out of here as long as I could but you have forced my hand Jeph.

I'm very prepared to see if you can bring a mature topic into this arc, just be sure that Tai insists on stopping at a liqour store on the way back to Mari's place for some plot device rape fuel.

Oh. god, I was so sure that was a link to TV Tropes that I moused over it.

I feel your pain, bro. 

[MarkCorrigan]

lots of words

You were right about one thing, I've endured a lot of situations following this web comic from the beginning but I never ever even entertained joining into this fray of fanboy/girl discussion retardation. The amount of people coming out of the woodwork for this is amazing.

The thing that's amazed me is the vitriolic hatred some people hold for some of the characters. I'm annoyed that Dora is acting like this because it seems (to me) to be a recent and unpleasant development, and it isn't that enjoyable to follow a webcomic with an unpleasant main character (like Ctl-Alt-Del, which is horrible). I don't HATE Dora, I just think that she has some unpleasant traits that make me like her less as a character.

I REALLY don't get the weird hate for people like Sven Tai and Angus. Some of it is driven by obsessive shippers, which is sad enough, but some of it just seems to spring from nowhere. I want someone to explain to me why Tai is some kind of sexual predator who treats women like objects.

[mickcheese]

lots of words

You were right about one thing, I've endured a lot of situations following this web comic from the beginning but I never ever even entertained joining into this fray of fanboy/girl discussion retardation. The amount of people coming out of the woodwork for this is amazing.

Other than that, Tai is basically a female version of Sven, and if she indeed goes after/gets with Marigold, she's proving it by being selfish and self absorbed. Look a fan, let's see what she tastes like. If she uses alcohol or something then shes a common rapist.

Rapist? Really? We're going to start throwing that word around? First she's a creepy user, then she's a sexual predator, now she's a rapist?

So far she hasn't progressed beyond innuendo. Can we hit the breaks before someone labels her as history's greatest monster?

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

Jeph has some massive HILARIOUS punchline planned for Friday.     

Or a cliffhanger followed by 10 days of Yelling Bird.

[eyosgkxb]

Rapist? Really? We're going to start throwing that word around? First she's a creepy user, then she's a sexual predator, now she's a rapist?

So far she hasn't progressed beyond innuendo. Can we hit the breaks before someone labels her as history's greatest monster?

What do you call someone who follows someone home expecting something way different than the other person, I'm just reflecting that if she stops for some alcohol on the way, and then goes way too far with Marigold intoxicated.

I don't forsee a mature topic like a date rape arc like that happening though, so its anyones ballgame.

[Akima]

No one is saying she's a bad person (really, where are you pulling that from?)

Well, since you asked, I'm "pulling" it from here:

I dislike Dora and I want to dislike her conduct here (miss defensive-on-everyone's-behalf is now a-ok just because the scenario appeals to her? Dick move. )

I'm with Westrim on this one. Total dick move by Dora. Letting someone awkward in social situations who has expressed zero romantic or sexual interest in women and has explicitly come on to one guy and flirted with another (Dale, let's be honest, that's what it was) go off oblivious with a Lesbian who obviously thinks she has a chance is being shitty to both of them simply to satisfy her bizarre fantasy that the two of them will end up together? Way to totally fuck with two people you're supposed to be friends with. Best case scenario Marigold lets Tai down gently and Tai is ok with it. More likely scenario, Marigold freaks out and hides away again and Tai is emotionally hurt, and why? Because Dora is an insensitive selfish bitch who can't think further than the end of her nose. I mean christ, even FAYE is concerned about the situation and she admits to being a bitch.

I'm really starting to go off Dora. I'm not bothered by the insane jealousy because I understand it's likely there for a reason and she most probably can't help it to a high degree, but the weird selfish matchmaker thing coupled with her ludicrous rages against Marten for absolutely no reason when he's vaguely nearby something she considers to be bad really suggests that she wants to control her friends, not help them. The double standards and controlling, manipulative behaviour when it comes to Marigold and Hanners, the two most vulnerable people in the strip in social situations is not a pleasant thing from someone who is, let's face it, the third main character in the strip.

I'm reacting negatively because this is the latest in a long string of controlling and potentially manipulative things Dora has done to her less socially aware "friends". She tries to take over their lives, directing them in certain ways instead of letting them make up their own minds or without alerting them to potential problems just because she thinks the situation is cute.

Remember how ballistic she went at Sven because Hanners asked him out on a pretend date? Remember how she acted when Hanners, the person who is least likely to go for Sven with the possible exception of Tai, came home? She demanded to know if she had fallen for him. She wanted to steer her in the direction Dora wanted her to go. That to me is not a healthy person to have as a friend.

Dora is a great character and she used to be the character I considered the second most likeable, behind Marten, but recently she's been well...selfish. Acting selfishly like she has with regards to your less socially adapted friends IS a dick move.

And that's not getting into any of the Dora-slagging from back around the Sven-Hanners date. In just the quotes above from the last few days, Dora is accused of being a dick, totally fucking with two people who were supposed to be her friends, being an insensitive bitch who couldn't think further than the end of her nose, applying double-standards, weird selfish behaviour, being controlling and manipulative, and not being a healthy person to be around. If someone applied all those extremely negative judgements to me, I would certainly think they were saying that I was a bad person. I know tastes differ, but for me, not all the post-facto explanations or disclaimers in the world could suck the poison out of that lot. I mean, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but let's not pretend that the opinion is something other than what it is. Bottom line? I don't think I "pulled" anything out of thin air.

[Loki]

What do you call someone who follows someone home expecting something way different than the other person, I'm just reflecting that if she stops for some alcohol on the way, and then goes way too far with Marigold intoxicated.

Uhm, I don't know.... how about "clueless"? o.O Gosh, as far as I understand, she genuinely thinks Marigold is making sexual advances at her.

[MarkCorrigan]

No one is saying she's a bad person (really, where are you pulling that from?)

Well, since you asked, I'm "pulling" it from here:

I dislike Dora and I want to dislike her conduct here (miss defensive-on-everyone's-behalf is now a-ok just because the scenario appeals to her? Dick move. )

I'm with Westrim on this one. Total dick move by Dora. Letting someone awkward in social situations who has expressed zero romantic or sexual interest in women and has explicitly come on to one guy and flirted with another (Dale, let's be honest, that's what it was) go off oblivious with a Lesbian who obviously thinks she has a chance is being shitty to both of them simply to satisfy her bizarre fantasy that the two of them will end up together? Way to totally fuck with two people you're supposed to be friends with. Best case scenario Marigold lets Tai down gently and Tai is ok with it. More likely scenario, Marigold freaks out and hides away again and Tai is emotionally hurt, and why? Because Dora is an insensitive selfish bitch who can't think further than the end of her nose. I mean christ, even FAYE is concerned about the situation and she admits to being a bitch.

I'm really starting to go off Dora. I'm not bothered by the insane jealousy because I understand it's likely there for a reason and she most probably can't help it to a high degree, but the weird selfish matchmaker thing coupled with her ludicrous rages against Marten for absolutely no reason when he's vaguely nearby something she considers to be bad really suggests that she wants to control her friends, not help them. The double standards and controlling, manipulative behaviour when it comes to Marigold and Hanners, the two most vulnerable people in the strip in social situations is not a pleasant thing from someone who is, let's face it, the third main character in the strip.

I'm reacting negatively because this is the latest in a long string of controlling and potentially manipulative things Dora has done to her less socially aware "friends". She tries to take over their lives, directing them in certain ways instead of letting them make up their own minds or without alerting them to potential problems just because she thinks the situation is cute.

Remember how ballistic she went at Sven because Hanners asked him out on a pretend date? Remember how she acted when Hanners, the person who is least likely to go for Sven with the possible exception of Tai, came home? She demanded to know if she had fallen for him. She wanted to steer her in the direction Dora wanted her to go. That to me is not a healthy person to have as a friend.

Dora is a great character and she used to be the character I considered the second most likeable, behind Marten, but recently she's been well...selfish. Acting selfishly like she has with regards to your less socially adapted friends IS a dick move.

And that's not getting into any of the Dora-slagging from back around the Sven-Hanners date. In just the quotes above from the last few days, Dora is accused of being a dick, totally fucking with two people who were supposed to be her friends, being an insensitive bitch who couldn't think further than the end of her nose, applying double-standards, weird selfish behaviour, being controlling and manipulative, and not being a healthy person to be around. If someone applied all those extremely negative judgements to me, I would certainly think they were saying that I was a bad person. I know tastes differ, but for me, not all the post-facto explanations or disclaimers in the world could suck the poison out of that lot. I mean, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but let's not pretend that the opinion is something other than what it is.

So, saying that someone is doing nasty things recently means that they're obviously a horrible person overall?

Wow. Guess it sucks to be your friend if they start doing things you don't like.  


I think that Dora used to be a good, if sometimes selfish person. A while back she started to see herself as a kind of mentor to Hanners, helping her with the "Party Favours" thing and helping get her a job. She seems to have decided to take Mari under her wing too, but I think that she's being too controlling of them. I think she sometimes does things that are in HER best interests without thinking of others, and I think this is a dick move. I think she WANTS to help Mari and Hanners, I just think she doesn't know how, but assumes she knows best. For example, when Mari found out about Faye and Angus, Hanners wanted to go and comfort her. Hanners is Mari's best friend, but instead of letting the obvious choice go, Dora stopped her and went herself because she had more experience. I think that the fact she does have more experience (and let us not forget, very unhealthy experience) with relationships makes her think that she knows best and therefore can tell them how best to handle things. In some situations this is probably true, but in others, I think she does what SHE deems best, not what is necessarily best.

[AnAverageWriter]

So far she hasn't progressed beyond innuendo. Can we hit the breaks before someone labels her as history's greatest monster?

I won't go that far. I will say that all experience shows that she is a user of people who objectifies women as "things" and has never even had a second thought about hurting or being dishonest as long as she gets her way.

The problem as I see it is the societal "double standard" being applied here. People are bending over backward to label her as a fundamentally "good person", despite the fact that we've never actually seen her do anything remotely altruistic, or even show any genuine concern for the feelings of another character in the strip- and in fact, a good number of strips she's in feature her behaving rather poorly.

And why do they do it? She's a pretty young female, so it's "just being cute", the creepy past overtures are just her "being flirty" or "acting young", and so on and so forth. She's not "history's greatest monster", but she's also not "a fundamentally good person" from anything we've seen in the past.

[MarkCorrigan]

So far she hasn't progressed beyond innuendo. Can we hit the breaks before someone labels her as history's greatest monster?

I won't go that far. I will say that all experience shows that she is a user of people who objectifies women as "things" and has never even had a second thought about hurting or being dishonest as long as she gets her way.

The problem as I see it is the societal "double standard" being applied here. People are bending over backward to label her as a fundamentally "good person", despite the fact that we've never actually seen her do anything remotely altruistic, or even show any genuine concern for the feelings of another character in the strip- and in fact, a good number of strips she's in feature her behaving rather poorly.

And why do they do it? She's a pretty young female, so it's "just being cute", the creepy past overtures are just her "being flirty" or "acting young", and so on and so forth. She's not "history's greatest monster", but she's also not "a fundamentally good person" from anything we've seen in the past.

Ok, I'm going to want to see some evidence for that lot.

[AnAverageWriter]

What lot?

If you're going to respond to an entire post with nothing but a "sez who", the least you could do is bother doing some research, or at least making yourself familiar with the prior comics, especially since Tai's behavioral traits have been pointed out repeatedly in comics shown in THIS VERY THREAD.

[iduguphergrave]

lots of words

You were right about one thing, I've endured a lot of situations following this web comic from the beginning but I never ever even entertained joining into this fray of fanboy/girl discussion retardation. The amount of people coming out of the woodwork for this is amazing.

Other than that, Tai is basically a female version of Sven, and if she indeed goes after/gets with Marigold, she's proving it by being selfish and self absorbed. Look a fan, let's see what she tastes like. If she uses alcohol or something then shes a common rapist.

Actually I only lurked because I wasn't getting the activation e-mail until recently.

Please actually read my posts before "quoting" me. I don't want people associating my thoughts on the comic with yours.

[MarkCorrigan]

What lot?

If you're going to respond to an entire post with nothing but a "sez who", the least you could do is bother doing some research, or at least making yourself familiar with the prior comics, especially since Tai's behavioral traits have been pointed out repeatedly in comics shown in THIS VERY THREAD.

Ok, I've looked at some of the comics posted in this thread and didn't see her as a predator or someone who treats people as objects. I don't think she always thinks of other people but I think her sense of humour and sexual openness is such that she doesn't have a problem sharing information, and this may not be the nicest thing, but I don't think it makes her a predator or someone who views people as sexual objects.

[mickcheese]

Actually I only lurked because I wasn't getting the activation e-mail until recently.

Same here. I think that accounts for the sudden influx of us newbies.

[AnAverageWriter]

Ok, I've looked at some of the comics posted in this thread and didn't see her as a predator or someone who treats people as objects.

Again, and this a repeat (for like the sixteenth time)- she is not a predator.

Secondly- it's already been politely pointed out where her behavior has shown her to objectify women, treat them as objects (such as actually referring to a certain woman as "a thing", as if she was a sex toy) and feels no qualms about using people for her own ends.

Again, I'm asking you to simply read this thread again, since everything you're claiming to be clueless about has been repeated... uh... REPEATEDLY. Jumping back in time to yesterday to repeat the same repetition just because someone doesn't want to review what's already been said would be... repetitive.

[Mad Cat]

There is nothing wrong with American that cannot be cured by what is right with America.

Like Hanners, there is nothing wrong with Mar-bear that cannot be cured by a little sapphic make-out session.

[mickcheese]

Ok, I've looked at some of the comics posted in this thread and didn't see her as a predator or someone who treats people as objects.

Again, and this a repeat (for like the sixteenth time)- she is not a predator.

Secondly- it's already been politely pointed out where her behavior has shown her to objectify women, treat them as objects (such as actually referring to a certain woman as "a thing", as if she was a sex toy) and feels no qualms about using people for her own ends.

Again, I'm asking you to simply read this thread again, since everything you're claiming to be clueless about has been repeated... uh... REPEATEDLY. Jumping back in time to yesterday to repeat the same repetition just because someone doesn't want to review what's already been said would be... repetitive.

It's been politely (and not so politely) pointed out where you believe she has objectified women. Just because Mark disagrees with you (he's certainly not alone in that) doesn't mean he's not reading the thread. He read the same comics you did and came away with a different interpretation. He's allowed.

[AnAverageWriter]

It's been politely (and not so politely) pointed out where you believe she has objectified women.

Whatever. It's not worth arguing about anymore.

[jwhouk]

Joel's Law, people.

"If you wonder how he eats and breathes
And other science facts (tra-la-la)
You should tell yourself 'It's just a show,
I should probably relax'..."

[AnAverageWriter]

Joel's Law, people.

Point taken.

[hannahsaurusrex]

That certainly is a "Tai-rade"!

Had to.

Also, Rich Old Lady is an awesome boutique name. (it's through the window)

[mickcheese]

It's been politely (and not so politely) pointed out where you believe she has objectified women.

Now we're falling back on the "oh, it's an opinion, so it can't be wrong"  thing.

You've posted nothing that supports your hypothesis that Tai is a "good person". You've shown no evidence that Tai has ever acted selflessly. You've done nothing but dither for over a day without producing anything to back up your statements that Tai is a "good person".

Whereas many others have directly shown you evidence of Tai using people gleefully, evidence of her referring to people as "things", and making unwanted sexual advances to the cast despite them being in strong committed relationships.

You can call whatever you want "a belief" or an opinion, but all opinions are not equal.

Fine. Here's where Tai lets Martin get out of work for some alone time with Dora. Here's where she shows legitimate concern for Dora's wellbeing and excusing the fact that they went home and did it rather than come immediately back to work. Now I've posted more examples of her being nice than you have of her being mean during my two days of "dithering".

And opinions and differentiating interpretations can't be inherently wrong. The only person who has the infallible view of these characters and their behavior is their creator. And if you subscribe to The Death of the Author than even his opinion holds no more weight than anyone else's.

[AnAverageWriter]

Golly, look at that guy quoting nonexistent posts!

Almost makes you feel like arguing for a day and a half.

[mickcheese]

Is there an Ignore function on this board? Just out of curiosity.

[MarkCorrigan]

Ok, I've looked at some of the comics posted in this thread and didn't see her as a predator or someone who treats people as objects.

Again, and this a repeat (for like the sixteenth time)- she is not a predator.

Secondly- it's already been politely pointed out where her behavior has shown her to objectify women, treat them as objects (such as actually referring to a certain woman as "a thing", as if she was a sex toy) and feels no qualms about using people for her own ends.

Again, I'm asking you to simply read this thread again, since everything you're claiming to be clueless about has been repeated... uh... REPEATEDLY. Jumping back in time to yesterday to repeat the same repetition just because someone doesn't want to review what's already been said would be... repetitive.

It's been politely (and not so politely) pointed out where you believe she has objectified women. Just because Mark disagrees with you (he's certainly not alone in that) doesn't mean he's not reading the thread. He read the same comics you did and came away with a different interpretation. He's allowed.

Uh huh. Further, one of the main objections you have to her AnAverageWriter, from what I can tell, and I could be wrong, is that she hits on Dora when Marten is around? Well in comic #773 she explicitly states that's something she wouldn't do. It really might be that she just jokes about it.

Furthermore, the comic you refered to as Tai gleefully discussing cheating and two timing is...not that at all. She's talking about how she has to go behind Serena's back to see Ashley EXCLUSIVELY rather than as part of a threesome. She doesn't seem to happy about the situation in panel 1 either. In fact, to me it looks like she's really unhappy that she has to do that. She does look happy when Marten, who you will note sees little wrong here, asks her if she sees it going anywhere, to which she says no, but the sex is good. I don't see that as bragging about her destructive actions or revelling in hurting people.