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[someone1074]

How does that even make sense? Why would him trying to "stand up for himself" by refusing to break up be a good thing? Their relationship was far worse for him than it was for her. He should have broken up with her earlier in fact--but it seems he was totally unable to do it even when faced with absolute deal-breakers for any other person. It's not "rolling over" to accept that it's over when it wasn't good for you anyway. Complaining that Marten's "weak-willed" in that he just silently accepted the breakup is a bit like complaining that an abuse victim "just accepted it" when her abuser said "oh crap I realized I've been abusing you all this time and I don't want to be that person but I can't help myself, so I'm leaving you now." How would it have shown strength of character (or in fact, anything other than spinelessness and stupidity) for Marten to have been all "No Dora, I love youuu let's stay in this totally unworkable relationship that hasn't been satisfying me for months on the off chance that with enough therapy and over lots and lots of time, your problems will disappear and we'll be able to ignore our other incompatibilities"?

You're blind if you can't see that Marten didn't want the relationship to end. Look at his face these last two comics. He's COMPLETELY unhappy right now. Why? Because he did love her. And he wanted to make it work. Dora decided she knew better than the two of them and made the decision for him. One he clearly did not approve of. He wanted to help her through it and she said no.

Your abuser example is the one that makes no sense. Marten isn't remotely relieved that she broke up with him. An abuse victim would be.

[benji]

So how's that supposed to look?

"It's over"
"No, it's not over until I say it's over."

Yeah, that's a healthy pattern.

Your abuser example is the one that makes no sense. Marten isn't remotely relieved that she broke up with him. An abuse victim would be.

Clearly you haven't had much experience with the victims of domestic abuse. They are often heartbroken by the failure of the relationship and have a lot of trouble getting to the point where they accept that being out is better for them.

[Wiregeek]

So how's that supposed to look?

"It's over"
"No, it's not over until I say it's over."

Yeah, that's a healthy pattern.

Bingo.

Noone has the right to force someone to remain in a relationship. Period. Full Stop.

[someone1074]

There's a difference between trying to help her through it (since Dora acknowledged that she didn't want the relationship to end either, but that she feels she would ruin it) and saying "No, I'm not letting you."

Huge difference. Nice job ignoring that.

Also

Clearly you haven't had much experience with the victims of domestic abuse. They are often heartbroken by the failure of the relationship and have a lot of trouble getting to the point where they accept that being out is better for them.

I actually have a lot of experience working directly with abuse victims during college. The reason they don't leave is because they fear they can't, not because they're happy with it. You're confusing it with the comparatively rare occurrence where the abuse victim identifies the abuse with love or happiness. That's not the norm, but it does happen.

[benji]

Oh, so not so much stalking her as becoming completely codependent.

"If I just stay a little longer, I know I can fix her. That's what someone needs in a partner, someone to fix them, right?"

I got ya.

[PenguinNinja1408]

A relationship requires 2 people. Dora doesn't want to remain aboard the Dora-Marten ship, so THE SHIP WILL SINK BLARGH

For anyone to make any sort of prediction about the two of them getting back together, then Dora would have to have a change of heart, something that I doubt Marten would (or should) have any influence, at least not for a while.

I think Jeph generally has a LONG timeline for his story ideas, so if there's another relationship-y development, I think it'd be a while. I think there might be a slight bit more emo-y-ness for a little bit, but eventually everyone will return to equilibrium.

[someone1074]

Oh, so not so much stalking her as becoming completely codependent.

"If I just stay a little longer, I know I can fix her. That's what someone needs in a partner, someone to fix them, right?"

I got ya.

I'm assuming you're trolling since this post makes no sense. How about just...talking it over? Going to a therapist? It worked for Faye.

I'm not sure why you're focusing on extremes.

[Odin]

I wouldn't say any of it, except maybe the Toto bit, was foreshadowing.  Marten and Dora had a turbulent relationship all along; if they hadn't, Dora walking out wouldn't have been the shock it was.

Anyone that was actually shocked by the breakup is/was a complete moron.

Despite all of this foreshadowing we're now identifying, I think we should remember that hindsight is 20/20.
Not seeing this breakup coming isn't moronic; it just involves not seeing subtle signs. Or being wilfully blind to them. At least, I know that's what I was doing.

This comic is about as subtle as a monster truck running over 100 cars full of fireworks.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

Apropos of nothing, Odin, where did you get your av of the Predator fucking with the Alien? That is pretty rad.

[someone1074]

Commercial for a PS2 and Xbox Aliens vs Predator game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4t7S64c9Wk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBpKCQQ3YrA&feature=related

[benji]

I'm assuming you're trolling since this post makes no sense. How about just...talking it over? Going to a therapist? It worked for Faye.

I'm not sure why you're focusing on extremes.

Nah. I actually find something vaguely disturbing in the idea that the strong, manly thing to do would be to refuse to let the relationship end. There's such a thing as commitment, sure, but then there's also such a thing as realizing that you aren't growing in a relationship and that maybe you need to give it a rest.

[Near Lurker]

I wouldn't say any of it, except maybe the Toto bit, was foreshadowing.  Marten and Dora had a turbulent relationship all along; if they hadn't, Dora walking out wouldn't have been the shock it was.

Anyone that was actually shocked by the breakup is/was a complete moron.

By the fact that them breaking up in general?  Sure.  Over this?  Come on.

[someone1074]

Nah. I actually find something vaguely desterbing in the idea that the strong, manly thing to do would be to refuse to let the relationship end. There's such a thing as comitment, sure, but then there's also such a thing as realizing that you aren't growing in a relationship and that maybe you need to give it a rest.

It's less a matter of it being the 'strong or manly' thing to do than just acknowledging that there is real love and potential there and not abandoning it. If the roles were completely reversed, I would have been surprised that Dora didn't try to make it work a little harder. It's curious because the earlier conflicts they experienced were much more serious. Adding to that, Marten was more willing to help Faye work through it, yet this hurt him incalculably worse...and he didn't try harder to help Dora through it.

Mind you, I'm not saying they had to stay in the relationship, but I'm surprised that Marten finally learned about all these issues she has and instead of helping her with them, he just leaves her to suffer. That's what surprised me.

EDIT: Adding to that last line, I'd have no issue with this if Marten felt better about his decision to let it go...but it's pretty clear he has misgivings about it. He wants to help. So is it so bad that I'd expect him to try?

[Carl-E]

I've been saying this in other threads, and I think he may well have, after the deer in the headlights of 1799.  We don't know what was said by either after that, but we do know that in the end, Dora convinced got him to go along with her and break it off. 

It takes two to make  a relationship.  It only tales one to end it. 

[emikoala]

Nah. I actually find something vaguely desterbing in the idea that the strong, manly thing to do would be to refuse to let the relationship end. There's such a thing as comitment, sure, but then there's also such a thing as realizing that you aren't growing in a relationship and that maybe you need to give it a rest.

Adding to that, Marten was more willing to help Faye work through it, yet this hurt him incalculably worse...and he didn't try harder to help Dora through it.

Mind you, I'm not saying they had to stay in the relationship, but I'm surprised that Marten finally learned about all these issues she has and instead of helping her with them, he just leaves her to suffer. That's what surprised me.

EDIT: Adding to that last line, I'd have no issue with this if Marten felt better about his decision to let it go...but it's pretty clear he has misgivings about it. He wants to help. So is it so bad that I'd expect him to try?

But Marten's way of helping Faye was by letting her off the hook in terms of her guilt that she couldn't return Marten's feelings. He told her, "You've got stuff to work through, I'm going to stop pursuing you and give you space while you do that." Now he's accepted that he has to give Dora her space while she works through *her* stuff.

I don't think Marten is "leaving her to suffer", either. He accepted the breakup, yes. But he doesn't seem angry or spiteful about it - he even told Faye not to go start a fight with Dora over it. There's no reason to assume at this point that he's decided to completely abandon her.

Breakups are always sad, even when you know they are the right choice to make. Especially coming from a long-term relationship where you've gotten used to the person's presence and function in your life. Marten's level of sadness is about what I'd expect for the end of a year-long relationship, even if he knows it's the right choice in the long run.

[someone1074]

But Marten's way of helping Faye was by letting her off the hook in terms of her guilt that she couldn't return Marten's feelings. He told her, "You've got stuff to work through, I'm going to stop pursuing you and give you space while you do that." Now he's accepted that he has to give Dora her space while she works through *her* stuff.

In that very comic you linked, he also said, "If you take steps to get yourself fixed up-I mean more than therapy, medication, whatever it takes, I'll do my best to treat you as a friend and not a girlfriend-in-waiting." That's not as much of a hands off approach as he's taking with Dora now. He's proposing to actively check up on Faye and agreed to respect her wishes on the condition that she work to get better.

Here he just said, "Okay, I'm out but I'm totally not okay with this. *sadface*". That's different.

Unless the next few comics elaborate on how Marten feels about it, so far, it seems to strongly suggest that he has no intention of helping her like he did Faye. And I wouldn't have expected that.

[graymouser]

I don't think Marten is "leaving her to suffer", either. He accepted the breakup, yes. But he doesn't seem angry or spiteful about it - he even told Faye not to go start a fight with Dora over it. There's no reason to assume at this point that he's decided to completely abandon her.

I dunno.  "We're both sick of her crap" sounded pretty, ah, spiteful about the way everything went.  He stopped Faye from killing Dora for the mutual benefit of himself and Faye - that is, literally, stopping Faye from running off and getting herself fired, which would make their housing situation even more difficult.

From how things have gone I don't think there is any chance of Marten / Dora rekindling.  It's not just giving her time, it's facing rejection after putting up with pretty serious issues for something like a year.

[Coco]

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1572

Additional foreshadowing strip, and a really adorable relationship moment. Made me laugh and feel very sad at the same time, but no one can put up with their SO acting "stupid and insecure" forever.

Also, Marten is understandably hurt, bitter, and probably more than a little angry at the moment. I don't think this is any reason to believe he plans on abandoning Dora or their friendship entirely. It's also been only a day or two since the big underwear fight when Dora promised to get help. Maybe, as Carl has been saying, Marten and Dora continued talking after sad-face Marten. Maybe Marten reinforced his desire that she get real help. Maybe after he's had time to recover he'll ask that she get help and make the same promise that he made to Faye, that if she gets real help he'll be there for her but try not to treat her as if he's waiting to get back together with her. The possibilities are endless, but I doubt that Dora will in any way become a pariah (at least not for very long) or that Marten will abandon their friendship or make their other friends choose. They wouldn't be the first couple to remain friends after a break up.

[melly21]

Marten is not a freaking saint. He got dumped by the chick he really did love and people just expect him to hang around and help out with her issues? Maybe Marten needs some time to work through his stuff too. Did people ever think of that? Maybe he needs to sit down and wonder why he keeps attracting chicks that have "issues". (I do love both Faye and Dora so don't think I am bashing them)

You can't just expect him to go "OK you dumped me, now let's work on those issues!"

I know people will bring up "But he did that for Faye!!!" and yes I realise he did that for Faye but maybe now Marten is just thinking "Ya know what screw this, I am going to work on myself and worry about myself for once" and I think that is extremely OK and long over due for him to do this, I think Marten needs to be a little bit selfish, everyone needs to be selfish at some point in their lives and work on themselves, and I think this is the time for Marten to do this.

Dora has Sven, and hopefully the others won't take sides, I have a feeling after yesterday's comic Faye will be in Marty's corner, but I am hoping the others will help both of them and comfort both of them.

They both have issues, and them helping each other out after they have just broken up just seems like a bad road to go down IMHO.

[someone1074]

snip

Except it's pretty clear he hates the situation he's in. Like I said, I wouldn't have a problem with this if he took it a little better, but he clearly wanted to do more about it. He tried to argue his position, but he got cut off. Selfish would have been fighting harder for what he believed was something they could have worked on. You think he'd look as bad as he does now if even some aspect of him wanted this break up?

Your entire argument rests on an unlikely presumption.

Like I said, until we find out more, the only thing we've been presented with is his extreme sadness at this turn about and his reluctant acceptance of Dora's request.

But...different interpretations and all that... >_>

[melly21]

snip

Except it's pretty clear he hates the situation he's in. Like I said, I wouldn't have a problem with this if he took it a little better, but he clearly wanted to do more about it. He tried to argue his position, but he got cut off. Selfish would have been fighting harder for what he believed was something they could have worked on. You think he'd look as bad as he does now if even some aspect of him wanted this break up?

Your entire argument rests on an unlikely presumption and is unrealistic.

Like I said, until we find out more, the only thing we've been presented with his extreme sadness at this turn about and his reluctant acceptance of Dora's request.

But...different interpretations and all that... >_>

Where in my post did I say he was happy about the break up? Of course he is upset, I acknowledge he was and still is in love with her. I wanted them stay together and work through it. I am just saying that you can't expect the guy to be OK with it and just magically help her out with her issues. He got dumped, of course he is bitter and upset (most people usually are a little upset when they are dumped) and no-one knows what was said off screen, he could have fought for the relationship, we don't know this.

You can't expect someone who has just been dumped to just hang around and help out with their issues. If Dora didn't want to be in the relationship then she didn't want to be in the relationship, I don't think anything he said (or did say) could change this. If someone wants out, they want out.

[someone1074]

but maybe now Marten is just thinking "Ya know what screw this, I am going to work on myself and worry about myself for once"

...suggests that he can satisfactorily take advantage of the situation.

And to be frank, Marten was crazy about Faye at first and he took that rejection remarkably well. You say he's not a saint, but he's been portrayed as such throughout most if not all of this comic. He is 'The Good Guy'.

Also:

You can't expect someone who has just been dumped to just hang around and help out with their issues. If Dora didn't want to be in the relationship then she didn't want to be in the relationship, I don't think anything he said (or did say) could change this. If someone wants out, they want out.

She's afraid her issues will consume her and that they'll never get better so she stopped trying. There's a difference. If it were up to her, she would stay in the relationship, but she feels her issues are insurmountable. So were Faye's, in her own eyes, but she took Marten's advice and worked through them.
 

[Is it cold in here?]

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1572

Also known as aural sex.

[melly21]

but maybe now Marten is just thinking "Ya know what screw this, I am going to work on myself and worry about myself for once"

...suggests that he can satisfactorily take advantage of the situation.

And to be frank, Marten was crazy about Faye at first and he took that rejection remarkably well. You say he's not a saint, but he's been portrayed as such throughout most if not all of this comic. He is 'The Good Guy'.

By that I mean so he can take some sort of positive from this situation, some sort of silver lining. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a silver lining in a shitastic time like this. I guess I just worded it wrong. Besides a lot of people after breaking up work on themselves, why is it so wrong for me to hope that Marten will work on his issues? We have seen Faye and Hanners work on theirs, so yes I would love to see Marten take advantage of this and work on himself.

So because he has been "The good guy" all along this means he has to continue being "The good guy". Yes he took the rejection from Faye remarkably well, but maybe this time he is just sick of it, like it has been said in other threads this may have been the straw that broke the camel's back and he doesn't want to be the "The good guy" anymore.

[someone1074]

Hm...we definitely have different interpretations of his reaction here. I feel that he is continuing to be "The Good Guy" by not helping her. Why? Because he's allowing her to do what she pleases at the expense of his happiness. Remember, he's unhappy and he thinks her arguments for ending it are ridiculous. But he didn't voice those concerns. He accepted it.

If he were finally able to drop that characteristic and fight for his own interest, selfishly, he would have stayed and and tried to help. Why? Because he wants to stay with her. Helping her through those issues would have granted him that.

Again, this is just from what we've seen. It would definitely help if he spoke more about it in the next few strips.

[PaxCeciliaPwns]

but maybe now Marten is just thinking "Ya know what screw this, I am going to work on myself and worry about myself for once"

...suggests that he can satisfactorily take advantage of the situation.

And to be frank, Marten was crazy about Faye at first and he took that rejection remarkably well. You say he's not a saint, but he's been portrayed as such throughout most if not all of this comic. He is 'The Good Guy'.

Also:

You can't expect someone who has just been dumped to just hang around and help out with their issues. If Dora didn't want to be in the relationship then she didn't want to be in the relationship, I don't think anything he said (or did say) could change this. If someone wants out, they want out.

She's afraid her issues will consume her and that they'll never get better so she stopped trying. There's a difference. If it were up to her, she would stay in the relationship, but she feels her issues are insurmountable. So were Faye's, in her own eyes, but she took Marten's advice and worked through them.
 

I don't see how saying "screw this" translates to being alright with the break up. If I can't finish my homework and have to say "screw this", I'm not happy that I am going to get a zero. But I will, as you put it, reluctantly accept the zero and try to move on.
Also, Dora was in a relationship with Marten, Faye wasn't. It's like staying on a sinking ship and trying to bail it out. Sure, if you bail out enough you might patch the hole, but this ship was taking on a lot of water.

[someone1074]

It's the end of the statement, not the beginning. The 'for once' suggests that this opportunity is something he was looking forward to.

Also not sure about the Dora/Faye comparison at the end of your post there. They both thought similarly of their issues. Faye to the point where she wanted no men in her life and refused a relationship with Marten and Dora where she feels she cannot be in a relationship and refused a continued relationship with Marten. The difference however is that Marten had more of a vested interest in assisting Dora since he had experienced a relationship with her and wanted to continue it (as evidenced by his bitterness, sadness and frustration at Dora's rationale for the break up).

[Torlek]

but maybe now Marten is just thinking "Ya know what screw this, I am going to work on myself and worry about myself for once"

...suggests that he can satisfactorily take advantage of the situation.

And to be frank, Marten was crazy about Faye at first and he took that rejection remarkably well. You say he's not a saint, but he's been portrayed as such throughout most if not all of this comic. He is 'The Good Guy'.

And you know what? Even good guys have their limits. Additionally, the situations with Faye and Dora are very different.

1.) Faye moving in to The Talk was three, maybe five months at most. Dora and Marten have been going out for at least a year.
2.) Faye was a friend/roommate/hopeful girlfriend that transitioned into a friend/roommate. Dora was a long-term girlfriend who looks to transition into an at-best friend/awkward-to-be-around ex.
3.) Faye's rejection came in a calm collected manner with a valid explanation of deeper issues after months of mixed signals. Dora's rejection comes in the sound and fury of a fight with no explanation of deeper issues after a year of what seemed to be a mostly good relationship.
4,) Faye said, "I want to fix my issues". Dora, from what we've seen pending further recounting of any post-1799 conversation, said, "I can't fix my issues. I give up."

These are markedly different scenarios here.

True, Marten may not be acting exactly in character here. But getting dumped hard is the kind of stressing situation that makes people act not in character. That said, he's having a very human reaction. Anger's been building up for months even though he told himself he could fix it. That's just the noble creature that he is. But he's finally burst. He's bitter. He resents having to put up with Dora's crazy when she doesn't seem to be doing a thing to fix it. Maybe for once he's being actually selfish and saying that he doesn't need her insecurities if she's not going to work through them with him.
Good guys like to fight the good fight. But sometimes even they realize that something isn't worth fighting for. They won't like it. They'll still want to fight for happiness and good. But some battles are just un-winnable.

[melly21]

It's the end of the statement, not the beginning. The 'for once' suggests that this opportunity is something he was looking forward to.

I was not saying that this was an opportunity he was looking forward to, I didn't mean he was just sitting there thinking "Oh god when is this relationship going to end so I can focus on myself" or that he held resentment towards Faye and Dora and their issues. I just mean he could see this freaking shitty situation as an opportunity for him to worry about himself, because he is hurting too. I understand Dora is hurting but she just hurt Marten and he needs to work through that hurt before he can worry about anyone else.

[someone1074]

I'm aware. You clarified your point earlier. I was responding to the person directly above my post...

And Torlek, I would argue that your first 3 points provide more of a reason for Marten to try harder. As for your last paragraph, I explained that I actually see his current action in character. I was hoping that this situation would bring about an out-of-character reaction. I actually don't think he's being selfish at all here (again, opting to allow Dora her wishes despite disagreeing with them)...but I was hoping for a selfish response. I thought this situation would have been enough to bring one about.

[Carl-E]

I think I mentioned this on another thread (it's getting hard to keep track), and if it was this one, please forgive an old man. 

Marten's not going to be able to help Dora through this.  Faye probably isn't goin to be able to, either.  They are  the issue.  No amount of reassurance (as we've seen in here) will make that go away.  Dora needs to sort this out on her own (well, with help, but it can't be from Marten or Faye), and she may never be able to work it out enough that she'll be able to go back to him. 

I started off being blindsided, actually panicking as i realized wha was happening.  Then I thought it could be saved.  I'm pretty sure now that it's dead, Jim.  The more I think about it, the more I realize that the fundamental problem is in the very foundation of the relationship.  You can't plaster over that and expect it to stand. 

^T_T^

[someone1074]

Then again, today's strip is pretty promising. At least with regard to her acknowledging the problem.

[Superkid11]

Now that I think about it... the purple hair.

It was the perfect foreshadowing. The most blatant one. But we all missed it. Think about it.

[TheEvilDog]

Now that I think about it... the purple hair.

It was the perfect foreshadowing. The most blatant one. But we all missed it. Think about it.

Yes, because purple is evil.... Its all so obvious now!

[GeoffTheLlama]

You're blind if you can't see that Marten didn't want the relationship to end. Look at his face these last two comics. He's COMPLETELY unhappy right now. Why? Because he did love her. And he wanted to make it work. Dora decided she knew better than the two of them and made the decision for him. One he clearly did not approve of. He wanted to help her through it and she said no.

Your abuser example is the one that makes no sense. Marten isn't remotely relieved that she broke up with him. An abuse victim would be.

I agree with everything except the last bit.  I was very close friends my ex years after we were together, and she was in a severely emotionally abusive relationship.  When it ended, he initiated the break-up and she was devastated. She didn't recover for a year and a half, and from what I understand her reaction's not all that uncommon among victims of emotional abuse.

That being said, I'm with you in that I hardly see Marten as being a victim of abuse.  Was Dora sometimes careless about his feelings? Yes. Could she turn into a raving bitch when that happened? God, yes. But the vast majority of the relationship? Whatever insecurities she held, she still made it pretty clear she loved him in a fairly affectionate way, generally meeting him as an equal.  Dora's character is flawed, but so are people.  That doesn't make her occasional trips down Bitch Lane the equivalent of an abusive relationship At. All.

[jwhouk]

Huh.

That would make sense; there's emotional abuse (as in "I HATE YOU") and there's emotional abuse (as in "I don't care about you").

Two parents who were emotionally absent, whether due to drugs or location, or whatever.

Ooh, this could get deep.

EDIT: Oops, I was talking about Dora, not Marten.

[Superkid11]

Now that I think about it... the purple hair.

It was the perfect foreshadowing. The most blatant one. But we all missed it. Think about it.

Yes, because purple is evil.... Its all so obvious now!

It ruins everything forever.

[Olymander]

Anyone that was actually shocked by the breakup is/was a complete moron.

Getting in on this a bit late, but this is a bit like saying that anyone who didn't see North Korea's attack coming Tuesday morning (Nov 23, 2010) is/was a complete moron.  Don't forget that timing is also a big part of being shocked and surprised.  While we've known for almost the entire relationship that Dora has had "issues", I think what really shocked and surprised most of us was the timing.  Don't forget that this whole thing started out with shared jokes about female anatomy and masturbation.  And then during the course of maybe half a day (and 2-3 strips) we go to a fight and breakup.  I honestly think most of the shock is simply how quickly it turned.  If there'd been some kind of build-up, some sort of underlying hostility or something between them that led up to this, I think there would have been much less shock.  And probably a lot fewer posts in the WCDT.

So, to sum up, was there long-term foreshadowing of the breakup?  Certainly, this thread is proof of that.  Was there any hint that things were going to bust open and fall apart in (essentially) the blink of an eye?  Not at all.  I wonder how much of that Marten is suffering, actually.  I wonder if part of the reason he's so bitter is that he was so totally blind-sided by this.

[Odin]

Anyone that was actually shocked by the breakup is/was a complete moron.

Getting in on this a bit late, but this is a bit like saying that anyone who didn't see North Korea's attack coming Tuesday morning (Nov 23, 2010) is/was a complete moron.  

Making that sort of apples and oranges comparison also makes you a complete moron. We're talking about a work of fiction that is as subtle as a monster truck rally when it comes to relationship dynamics, not acts of war between countries that have been hostile to each other for over four decades (though now that I put it that way, yes, you would still be a moron if you were surprised by the attack yesterday morning).

The operative word there is "over", you cannot salvage your stupidity by being pedantic, people.

[akronnick]

...six decades?






It's been four decades since they made the movie about that war that inspired the TV show that is all most people know about that war.

Yes, it has been that long

[jwhouk]

The TV show lasted about five times longer than the actual war police action.

[TheEvilDog]

The sword of time will pierce our skins/ It doesn't hurt when it begins/ But as it works its way on in/ The pain grows stronger...watch it grin

[jwhouk]

ISWYDT 

Of course, "Suicide Is Painless" was going to be the motto of my Fantasy Football team this year, as half my starting lineup got hurt in the second week...

[GeoffTheLlama]

ISWYDT 

Of course, "Suicide Is Painless" was going to be the motto of my Fantasy Football team this year, as half my starting lineup got hurt in the second week...

Aaaaaand now I'm singing that all day today.  This should prove interesting, since I know at least one person is feeling the holiday blues.   

[Wiregeek]

ISWYDT 

Of course, "Suicide Is Painless" was going to be the motto of my Fantasy Football team this year, as half my starting lineup got hurt in the second week...

Aaaaaand now I'm singing that all day today.  This should prove interesting, since I know at least one person is feeling the holiday blues.   

Well, it does bring so many changes.

But, you know, I can take or leave it if I please.

[TheEvilDog]

And you can do the same thing if you please.

[Olymander]

Anyone that was actually shocked by the breakup is/was a complete moron.

Getting in on this a bit late, but this is a bit like saying that anyone who didn't see North Korea's attack coming Tuesday morning (Nov 23, 2010) is/was a complete moron.  Don't forget that timing is also a big part of being shocked and surprised.

Making that sort of apples and oranges comparison also makes you a complete moron. We're talking about a work of fiction that is as subtle as a monster truck rally when it comes to relationship dynamics, not acts of war between countries that have been hostile to each other for over four decades (though now that I put it that way, yes, you would still be a moron if you were surprised by the attack yesterday morning).

The operative word there is "over", you cannot salvage your stupidity by being pedantic, people.

And my operative phrase, which you conveniently cut, was timing (re-added and bolded above).  And was I surprised by the attack?  Yes, I was.  I was surprised that the North would do something so obviously stupid as firing into the middle of a war game that would guarantee immediate and heavy reprisal.  Again, it's not the fact of the act, it's what's surrounding it.  Context is important.

And, if you'd like something more apples to apples, then, who would have guessed that Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman were going to divorce when they did?

[Carl-E]

Odin knew. 

Because we're all morons. 

[Dliessmgg]

Because we're complete morons.

[Boomslang]

Because we're complete morons.

Not all of us, some of us are only partially complete.

It's like Edward Scissorhands, except with dickrbooms instead of scissors.

Or something.