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Author Topic: Elder Scrolls V  (Read 89416 times)

Vuk

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Elder Scrolls V
« on: 25 Nov 2010, 10:43 »

http://kotaku.com/5697047/report-elder-scrolls-v-is-a-direct-sequel-to-oblivion

Haven't posted in this sub-forum at all before, but is anyone else stoked for this? I'm kind of disappointed that it's a direct sequel to Oblivion, since I was hoping for something like Morrowind's world, but perhaps that's still possible. Apparently, they're improving the engine, though, and they still haven't revealed much in terms of location, gameplay, etc. so I guess we can hope it will be awesome.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #1 on: 25 Nov 2010, 11:17 »

I am moderately excited.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #2 on: 25 Nov 2010, 11:43 »

When I see the engine in action, I'll be very excited.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #3 on: 25 Nov 2010, 12:26 »

Kotaku thinks that Oblivion looked better than Fallout 3?

I'm not quite sure I agree. I never got bored with the wasteland. I got bored with the Tamriel forests, elf shrines and generally empty-feeling world rather early on. Also, Oblivion was too shiny.


The Blades were never particularly interesting as a story element, so if they're going to stick with them, they'll have to do something big. And they better but it in a new province, dammit. I can get excited with any part of the Elder Scrolls world except that damn central, bleak European place.

It'll probably be good, but I'm not expecting to get as immersed as I did in Morrowind.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #4 on: 25 Nov 2010, 12:38 »

Apparently it is set 200yrs after Oblivion, so not sure what to make of that.  Will we see guns and steam-engines other than old Dwemer tech?

I agree (as prob everyone knows) that Oblivion's shit was too shiny.  I am actually impressed with what they've done between Oblivion and Fallout 3, so I also can't understand how Kotaku say otherwise.  I believe that I read somewhere that this game/the new engine has been in production for a while now and they're still using a tweaked version of the old engine & not an id tech one, which is pretty disappointing, but whatever.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #5 on: 25 Nov 2010, 13:38 »

Maybe they felt that they got burned when they put Oblivion so soon after Morrowind (I'm not sure how long, but the emperor that dies in the beginning of Oblivion is the same as the one that's alive and kicking in Morrowind), and got quite a few continuity problems. I seem to remember that there was some stuff going on with the emperor in Morrowind that was just skipped in the next game, and it just felt like nobody could care less that Gods had been killed just yonder. And the stuff that was supposedly happening with the Nerevarine, him going to the lost homeland of the elves, seemed far more interesting than Oblivion itself. Hint to gamedevs: don't talk about stuff happening in the world that sounds more fun than the game itself.

Setting the game 200 years after Oblivion gives them much more free reins with what's going on. As I said, I hope, hope, hope that they've placed it somewhere interesting. If it's in the marshes, I'll forgive everything ever.

This reminds me that it's been too long since I checked out Tamriel rebuilt. It's pretty awesome, I hope they can finish it one day.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #6 on: 25 Nov 2010, 13:54 »

I probably shouldn't be, but I am moderately excited. With Fallout 3 Bethesda showed that they're capable of improving their design to some degree, but Tamriel as shown in Oblivion is just such a dull setting.

If they're doing VA it's probably pretty far along.
« Last Edit: 25 Nov 2010, 13:56 by KvP »
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #7 on: 25 Nov 2010, 14:15 »

Well considering it's been over 2 years since the last Bethsoft game they should be pretty far along with whatever their next game is. But I agree with John in general. Fallout 3 was a massive improvement over Oblivion in just about every aspect, but I have serious doubts as to whether they can make the extremely derivative setting of Oblivion into something interesting, let alone whether they can sufficiently address all of the gameplay and engine flaws. I can understand why someone would prefer the visual palette of Oblivion to Fallout 3 though, although Fallout 3 would look less oppressive if they took the green filter off of everything.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #8 on: 25 Nov 2010, 15:32 »

Pity that they're still trying to use the same engine.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this - if they can display the same level of improvement as between Oblivion and Fallout 3, then this could be a pretty dang good game.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #9 on: 26 Nov 2010, 12:25 »

Heh, I was wondering how long this would take to make it's way here...the rumor wasn't exactly from a credible source, yet nearly every major game-centric media outlet reported on it.  I'm sure they're working on it, but I'm gonna hold off on believing any of the rumors about locale/story until Gamasutra covers it.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #10 on: 26 Nov 2010, 14:12 »

...although Fallout 3 would look less oppressive if they took the green filter off of everything.

There was a mod that did.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #11 on: 28 Nov 2010, 16:15 »

Death to Gamebryo.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #12 on: 28 Nov 2010, 23:47 »

It's not really Gamebryo's fault so much as Bethesda's use of Gamebryo. If Warhammer Online can do the seemless transitions and huge world and so on with it then I don't see why Oblivion 2 or TES V or whatever can't.

I guess you could argue that WAR has less detail polycount and shader wise but honestly I think it looks better overall. Art direction is far more important than technology.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #13 on: 29 Nov 2010, 09:26 »

Given that I played upwards of 200 hours of Oblivion, it's not really a question that I'm going to get this one. I can't not.

I did enjoy Oblivion a lot more than Fallout 3, though, and I don't think it was just the graphics (although I do enjoy wandering around prettyscapes over green-tinted desert).
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #14 on: 29 Nov 2010, 10:24 »

Man I just played the demo for Divinity 2 which also uses the Gamebryo engine and it felt totally correct there. Gamebryo is not the problem at all.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #15 on: 29 Nov 2010, 10:54 »

Which is weird, since (according to wikipedia) they've been using different versions of it since Morrowind. Assuming that took 2 years to develop, they have 10 years of experience with it.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #16 on: 29 Nov 2010, 11:51 »

Apparently it is set 200yrs after Oblivion, so not sure what to make of that.  Will we see guns and steam-engines other than old Dwemer tech?
That would be awesome.  Although they could handwave the guns part because the inventors in the world are just like "Why make an expensive, smelly and dangerous device when I could just use magic to do the same thing with lightning bolts?"
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #17 on: 29 Nov 2010, 22:07 »

L.E. Modesitt in his Chaos and Order fantasy series "solved" the problem of gunpowder weapons becoming dominant by having one kind of magic able to detonate it from afar.

There's a lot about this game that I'm going to be curious about. Part of that is that I like seeing how the boundaries of the genre evolve, so I'm hoping they try at least one cool thing in that regard.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #18 on: 29 Nov 2010, 22:23 »

I don't expect them to include steampunk elements or whatever in the new game. I can't remember what the exact term is but Tamriel strikes me as a world that exists roughly in the same era in perpetuity, which can be explained away in that the omnipresence and versatility of magic takes all the incentive out of technological advancement.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #19 on: 30 Nov 2010, 00:43 »

Magic can have an industrial age.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #20 on: 30 Nov 2010, 03:11 »

The thing about the Tamriel world is that it's had a steampunk age, and you see the remains of it in Morrowind - the ruins of the Dwemer race and their centurions killer robots. It's got a rusty feel, and it's not got guns, but it's still steam. It's creator race also died all at once, but who knows.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #21 on: 30 Nov 2010, 03:46 »

And there is always the guys who only have very limited magical ability.  Up until now they've made do with crossbows and such, but I'd see those guys using guns.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #22 on: 30 Nov 2010, 08:48 »

I liked how wizardry 8 handled the "guns" in a fantasy game thing.  Only certain character types could get custom guns, they got better as the character leveled and tinkered with them and you could use more things as ammo.  Otherwise characters had to train up to use modern weapons.
 
(But that game had spaceships and aliens and stuff too so maybe that isn't the best approach for this game)
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #23 on: 30 Nov 2010, 14:14 »

Magic can have an industrial age.

See: Thief 1 and Thief 2. (Not so much Thief 3.)
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #24 on: 30 Nov 2010, 14:33 »

Remember that Tamriel had a industrial age - the dwemer. And I guess people see technology as bad luck since that entire race got wiped out.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #25 on: 01 Dec 2010, 02:17 »

I went from completely obsessed with Morrowind to playing maybe five hours at most of Oblivion.  Maybe I'm just bored of the play style, but I really think the location of Oblivion just didn't do it for me.  Give Oblivion's technical improvements to Morrowind and I would probably buy it again.

Guess it all depends on the setting, if I'll buy ES V.
« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2010, 02:23 by Odal »
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #26 on: 02 Dec 2010, 03:42 »

I spent ages in Morrowind just walking about, squatting in swamps, picking herbs and experimenting with them.  I liked that blunt, sword and axe were all different, that short and longswords were different.  I liked that you could fuck around with enchanting and if you were good enough at it you could create shit that let you fly, or make a Hulk ring, something that'd increase your jumping and give you a bit of levitate, so you could bound across the world.  I also loved the fast-travel system that was in the game, ie: the strider things.

Like, even if they didn't want that sort of thing to be able to be done in Oblivion there were plenty better ways to do it than totally gimping the skill system.  From the very beginning I was looking for mods to fix things.  Arrows and magic flew way too slowly, both at and away from me.  Magic was gimped to hell.  You had to hit everyone/get hit a million times in combat, and your shit broke too often.  Torches were completely useless, because you could see well enough in the dark.  Traps weren't scary because they'd just hit you and bounce off with a little damage.  

I appreciated the weapon mods that made everything hit harder and last longer, the arrow speed mods that made archery more dangerous, magic rebalancing mods that made facing off against mages more than constantly advancing while sidestepping their pathetic attempts at harming you, and both the darker nights/dungeons and more dangerous traps mods for doing exactly what their names would lead you to think.  I remember testing out a trap after applying the dangerous traps mod and seeing my dude get killed with one hit from a big fuckoff log with spikes on and thinking "ok yeah, now that's fucking great"

I hope that they have some way of looking at the sort of mods people used and taking them onboard as suggestions for what people want the new game to be like, but I seriously doubt it.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #27 on: 02 Dec 2010, 23:40 »

Quote
I spent ages in Morrowind just walking about, squatting in swamps, picking herbs and experimenting with them.
True story: I had about 70% of Morrowind explored before I figured out what the silt striders were.  That character was also the only character I've ever had in a TES game that achieved a natural 100 in Athletics.  Starting from skill level 5.  And no, I didn't use any skill trainers.

I'm also hoping they place the game in a region other than Cyrodil.  Pretty much anywhere would be good.  Argonia would be interesting.  Maybe even High Rock.

Hopefully they make racials and birthsigns fun again; Oblivion Breton with The Atronach was practically gamebreaking.  And FFS bring back artifact items.

Oh, and bring back the Morrowind difficulty, not this stupid level-as-you-level crap that was in Oblivion.  Make the game challenging again.
« Last Edit: 02 Dec 2010, 23:52 by Sorflakne »
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #28 on: 03 Dec 2010, 09:02 »

Man I don't know, Morrowind was a great game but there were parts of it that just made me want to tear my eyes out in frustration. For one thing if I walked around in the world for more than an hour I would just start getting depressed since the entire place looked so drab and ruined and sad, and then what the hell was up with the weapons? You swing your sword, it physically touches your opponent, it should hit them. Not have a 5% chance to hit them since you haven't spent an hour swinging at things to level up your sword skill.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #29 on: 03 Dec 2010, 10:09 »

You swing you sword to attack something. Then it rolls to see whether you hit and if you hit then damage is applied. Think of it more like a pen and paper rpg.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #30 on: 03 Dec 2010, 10:17 »

Too low fatigue, man. If it's lower than half, you'll start missing a lot, and misscast spells. You could hit stuff pretty reliably with weapon skills in the thirties if you didn't go into combat with fatigue a 0 because you had been running. A lot of people just put on always run, and forgot pretty much all about the fatigue stat, which made hitting stuff seem much harder than it actually was.

One big flaw with the was quests and storyline is laid up, is that unless you go temple (which is kinda boring and not easy to find) or Televani, you won't start exploring the grasslands and other cool places before late, late into the questline of your factions. Temple is recommended since a lot of the quests are pilgrimages, and lets you see new, fancy places.

And seriously, it's main quest is meant for level 60ish characters, but Solstheim is awesome.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #31 on: 03 Dec 2010, 10:42 »

You swing you sword to attack something. Then it rolls to see whether you hit and if you hit then damage is applied. Think of it more like a pen and paper rpg.

That is such an outdated way to deal with combat in an interactive video game though.

Also i was exaggerating as far as the actual percentage of chance to hit and whatnot for just example purposes, it still doesn't mean its a good system, but then again I'm just not a fan of anything that turns a video game into a spreadsheet as far as stats go, which will always without fail cause people to min/max, whether it be D&D, gearscore in WoW, or the entirety of EvE online. I just don't think its a way to look at a video game.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #32 on: 03 Dec 2010, 12:14 »

It's certainly a way to look at video games, just a way that mostly only appeals to a very specific part of people who play them
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #33 on: 03 Dec 2010, 12:55 »

The thing about Morrowind wasn't that combat was dice-based, but rather that if you used a weapon your character wasn't proficient in, you sucked ass with it (surprise!) That is not acceptable for the modern gamer, and it presents a problem for RPG developers... Without some dice element, you can't differentiate skill between character builds. The easiest solution is to restrict the weapons you can use with certain classes, the way ME2 did, but you can also let every character be awesome with everything (see: Bethsoft games since Oblivion, where non-combat skills are the ones that differentiate builds more than anything else), thus negating the need for combat skill entirely, or you can let every character be awesome with every weapon and introduce magic powers for those who bothered to distribute skill points, or you make skill dependent entirely on builds and introduce magic powers dependent on skill, like Alpha Protocol did. Or you can have all weapons have "attribute floors" and make them unusable for builds that don't pump a specific primary attribute (Diablo 2 and Dragon Age did this).

Bethsoft has fared the best with their system - John Q. Public likes to be able to use whatever he uses whenever he gets it, and he dislikes having drawbacks to the choices he makes with his character, such as not being able to use mauls when he developed a character best designed for daggers.

That latter element is probably the single biggest factor in the changes in RPG design in the last 10 years or so. It's been fun watching Bioware, for example, incrementally tweak their design such that players can't fuck up in any way and different approaches being only slight variations on one another.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #34 on: 03 Dec 2010, 15:53 »

I'm glad that F:NV at least tried to restore S.P.E.C.I.A.L. and skill checks for weapon use but they should've gone so far as to make those weapons unusable/ineffective if the PC didn't meet the criteria. It doesn't make any sense that my thief/sniper build should be able to rush into a highly irradiated battlefield with a minigun.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #35 on: 03 Dec 2010, 17:17 »

There's no way to do that in a real-time game without angering people - Alpha Protocol and (to a much greater extent) Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines made you suck in real-time FPS/TPS combat with things you weren't proficient in (or sometimes in the latter case, what you were proficient in) and they got pegged as the very definition of bad combat.

weapon prereqs in NV affected accuracy / spread (in the case of guns and explosives) and attack speed (in the case of melee / unarmed / explosives), but going beyond that would have pissed off too many people.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #36 on: 03 Dec 2010, 18:20 »

They need to have a different playstyle option, then.

1. John Q Public [default]
2. Person who is expecting an RPG

or release it as an official, optional day-1 mod for all I care.  I don't mind them going after more casual players, because that'll get them more money and mean that they'll be able to make more games.  I just wish there were more sliders for gameplay than just difficulty level (and sometimes gore).
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #37 on: 03 Dec 2010, 19:15 »

Gore is a stupid thing to toggle, devs should just be able decide what they want and then stick with it. The toggle animus blood on/off option in Assassin's Creed is mindbogglingly unnecessary. It has no impact on censorship and people who don't want to/shouldn't be seeing that low level of gore need to think about why they're playing a game where the goal is to kill people. I can't think why they'd include it. 
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #38 on: 03 Dec 2010, 19:24 »

But Tom what about the children
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #39 on: 03 Dec 2010, 19:32 »

I think having configurable options, no matter how lowly you may think of them for whatever reason, is never a bad thing to have.

I am pretty torn on the way to deal with RPGs and how they've changed. While I miss the days of picking a class and being limited in certain areas by that choice, but I can't really argue with being able to at least mess with whatever I want in game in as few playthroughs as possible. Personally I'd like a bit more of a balance than what has become the norm, but I think that for the most part I'm ok with the fact that the definition of what an video game RPG is has changed considerably over the last 30 years.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #40 on: 04 Dec 2010, 00:52 »

Don't get me wrong, I do love the way that TES' world is.  I love being able to be a sword-wielding mage or a mostly-fighter that augments his abilities with a little magic, or perhaps a sneaky bow-wielding assassin that uses magic for misdirection and healing.  I love all that, but I just want to have to work at it if I want to be able to do it effectively.  I don't really want it just served up to be on a plate.  I think that Morrowind was pretty balanced in that way, Oblivion less so without mods.  I hope that the next one goes back toward Morrowind just a little, but I am skeptical for the reasons John mentions.
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Dimmukane

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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #41 on: 04 Dec 2010, 11:52 »

I'm going to put this here for later. 

8-)

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ackblom12

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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #42 on: 04 Dec 2010, 11:54 »

Oh yeah, definitely. I'd like to have to put a bit more work in myself but I'm not sure how they could do it anymore without turning RPGs back into the super niche market and not being able to survive on that kind of market without making major visual sacrifices that would make them even more niche and then jut having a fanbase made up entirely of RPG Codex.

I wouldn't wish the RPG Codex on anyone.
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Ozymandias

Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #43 on: 04 Dec 2010, 14:12 »

I don't know. I think it just requires some creativity. I mean I wouldn't have thought an old school puzzle platformer like Out of this World/Another World would be any successful but hey Limbo, awesome.
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snalin

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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #44 on: 04 Dec 2010, 15:09 »

When even a hack and slash oriented game like Dungeon Siege 2 can get away with saying "if you choose more than one field of combat you will SUCK", and still be praised for fun combat, an Elder Scrolls game should have no trouble doing the same. You don't have to make characters unable to hit with weapons they are not proficient with, just make them slower and do less damage per hit, and that should fix things up good.

I've always had a problem with how TES has managed swords, btw. In Morrowind, you had short blades and long blades, which didn't make a lot of sense since short blades covered everything from kitchen knives to short swords, while long blades covered normal swords to claymores. Oblivion just had "blades". Morrowind's division seemed weird and overly constrictive, while in Oblivion it just felt too open. I think that a two-handled/one-handled division is much better, both logically and gameplay-wise.

I also want spears back. A fantasy world without spears just feels weird.
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ackblom12

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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #45 on: 04 Dec 2010, 20:16 »

True, though Limbo is also a $15 game. Unless they wanted to start making budget priced RPGs, which I guess would be an option and I certainly wouldn't look down upon it, I'm not sure how else they could do it.

Also yeah, Oblivion seriously needed a massively overhauled weapon class system. It felt incredibly stupid that between Morrowind and Oblivion crossbows, spears and various other things just ceased to exist. Wouldn't be so odd if it was odd weapons and such but it was fucking weapons that made sense.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #46 on: 05 Dec 2010, 03:45 »

Torchlight is a budget price RPG and by all accounts it's gone gangbusters.  When Torchlight 2 is released I'm gonna pre-order it, because the original was a bucketload of fun while still being at its core a very competently executed action RPG.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #47 on: 05 Dec 2010, 07:25 »

Whatever they do the system will still be inherently flawed.
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ackblom12

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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #48 on: 05 Dec 2010, 07:28 »

Yeah, Torchlight is pretty great, but it's also missing some of the deeper aspects and balance of some of the better games in the history of the genre. It also kind of made it's money off of being a picture perfect Diablo II clone, one of the more popular games of the last 20 years. I mean, tons of fun and quite happy to have purchased it, but I don't know if I'd say creative is the word to use for it.

I'm actually interested to see how well they pull off Torchlight 2 since they're adding multi-player to it and balance will actually be a real issue. Probably still pre-ordering it the moment I'm able though.
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Re: Elder Scrolls V
« Reply #49 on: 06 Dec 2010, 03:56 »

Molyneux you fucking hack, I will cut you.
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