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Author Topic: Bickering about bicycles, now with occasional tips about motorised vehicles  (Read 242369 times)

Something Witty

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SWitty, you are the person I hated for the 11 years I lived facing onto a main road. Screaming car engines make me want to stab people, particularly if it's after 10pm. No offence but ARGH.

Oh no, mine isn't super loud or anything, It's only a loud enough so you hear it inside the car. It just makes the best sound ever when you wind it up to a million.
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ibrahimdelil

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Screaming car engines make me want to stab people, particularly if it's after 10pm

i live pretty close to a highway and i totally love those f**kers. especially late at night, when i'm lying in the bed half awake and some bikers are racing or a ferrari/lambo is passing by.

y'know I just thought of something. I've never been to Turkey but I hear the roads there are a lot like Egypt was,

actually, it's nothing like egypt. also i found this,

Quote
Country - Year - Population - Fatalities
UK - 2009 - 62,348,447 - 2,222 - 0,00356%
TR - 2010 - 77,804,122 - 4,041 - 0,00519%
CA - 2005 - 33,759,742 - 2,767 - 0,00819%
US - 2009 - 310,232,863 - 33,808 - 0,01089% (lowest in 50 years!)
« Last Edit: 06 Feb 2011, 04:13 by ibrahimdelil »
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The Seldom Killer

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So with what are largely considered larger, safer, easier to drive vehicles on wider, less complicated roads with more instructional signage and consistently lower speed limits, the US has achieved a road vehicle death rate three times that of the UK.

I can't think of a perspective from which that isn't fucked up.

And now a brief word on shouting at cyclists from a moving vehicle. I presume it's abuse but it's a little difficult to tell, for all I know it's a recipie for chocolate brownies. This is because the combination of wind, engine noise, other background noise, only opening the window an inch or so and a roughly 2:1 speed ratio, we haven't got a clue what you're shouting. It's not that I'm particularly bothered, I support your right to freedom of expression and strongly encourage you to exercise that right when you feel compelled to do so. However, if you feel that it is important that the cyclist appreciate the fullness of your brief oral missive, I suggest the following remedial actions:
1) Wind your window down all the way.
2) Slow down and match the cyclist at an equal and level pace.
3) Enunciate.
If it helps at all, many cyclists I know are equally keen to know what it is that motorists have been shouting all these years.

In wholly unrelated news, I'm pondering the purchase of a belt mounted D-lock holster.
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Patrick

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Changing Lanes in Intersections: I am guessing most states have laws like this on the books somewhere, so this probably applies in some aspects to everyone. In the state of Georgia, it is illegal to change lanes within 100 ft of an intersection. It causes accidents. Don't do it.

This is my single biggest pet peeve when driving. I have actually yelled at a friend of mine for doing this once. He got pissy and defensive, and did it again shortly after. And nearly fucking hit somebody who was trying to turn right at a red light. And he hasn't forgotten it, and hasn't done it since.
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Scandanavian War Machine

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So with what are largely considered larger, safer, easier to drive vehicles on wider, less complicated roads with more instructional signage and consistently lower speed limits, the US has achieved a road vehicle death rate three times that of the UK.

I can't think of a perspective from which that isn't fucked up.


here's one:

the entire uk has the population of, like, texas or something



so...you know....numbers  :-P
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And...  percentages!  Look again.
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calenlass

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This is my single biggest pet peeve when driving. I have actually yelled at a friend of mine for doing this once. He got pissy and defensive, and did it again shortly after. And nearly fucking hit somebody who was trying to turn right at a red light. And he hasn't forgotten it, and hasn't done it since.

This is the best possible outcome. Ha!


Ok, a thing I remember not knowing when I learned how to drive was that turn signals are technically required for merging and changing lanes! Most people don't do this, so I guess I will assume that they also do not know it. Use indicators, guys! Driver communication is important!
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The Seldom Killer

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so...you know....numbers  :-P

Did you really think that 33808 was three times 2222?
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Scandanavian War Machine

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it's common knowledge that i don't know what i'm talking about. also i didn't see the percentages


just offering possible explanations. uk people often don't realize how fucking huge america is.

go ahead and ignore me, i be the dumbz
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Also I would like to point out that the combination of Sailor Moon and faux-Kerouac / Sonic Youth spelling is perhaps the purest distillation of what this forum is that we have yet been presented with.

The Seldom Killer

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I'm from Canada, it's bigger.
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calenlass

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Good for you.
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The Seldom Killer

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It usually is.
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jhocking

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Ok, a thing I remember not knowing when I learned how to drive was that turn signals are technically required for merging and changing lanes! Most people don't do this, so I guess I will assume that they also do not know it. Use indicators, guys! Driver communication is important!

As extra motivation if being safer isn't enough, when you signal you want to change lanes people usually let you. So not only will you be safer, traffic will actually become more convenient too. Bonus!

calenlass

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Yeah I have noticed that people trying to change lanes with no signal often seem to almost hit someone, or at least cut it really close, whereas people who change with a blinker seem to get what they wanted more often? It is a good point.
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nekowafer

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So with what are largely considered larger, safer, easier to drive vehicles on wider, less complicated roads with more instructional signage and consistently lower speed limits, the US has achieved a road vehicle death rate three times that of the UK.

I can't think of a perspective from which that isn't fucked up.

A note on that: It seems a lot of American drivers are complete fucking morons. For a little background here, I don't even drive. I don't have a license or a car. I've been behind the wheel twice ever. And yet, drivers here annoy me.

For example, when turning right at an intersection, people stop and wait, even if there is a lane dedicated to the people turning right. I get that you need to see who is coming from the left, that's great, but when there's a whole lane just for you, fucking go already. The fact that they don't see that lane means that they aren't even looking. Which means that they're morons.

Also I'm very careful with crossing streets and such, because I've been hit by a car before and boy is that terrifying. And yet, I've almost been hit at least 20 times since working at my current office. And this is just trying to walk through the parking lot. It's because no one is looking where they're going and no one seems to give a shit.

There are stupid drivers everywhere but we seem to have a larger number of them.
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Elysiana

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Yeah I have noticed that people trying to change lanes with no signal often seem to almost hit someone, or at least cut it really close, whereas people who change with a blinker seem to get what they wanted more often? It is a good point.
You're lucky then. Most places I've lived, if you put a blinker on people will speed up to make sure you CAN'T get in. This of course leads to less people using blinkers.
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SonofZ3

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The ammount of time that American drivers spend doing anything BUT driving absolutely amazes me. I've seen, within the last week, lines of traffic 8 or 9 vehicles in length on a 65mph highway where each of those 9 consecutive cars had someone with a cell phone glued to his/her head. I often see people talking on the phone AND engaged in some other distractive activity, be it dealing with children, dogs, GPS displays, or doing their makeup (yes, you see plenty of women doing their makeup during their morning commute to work, and men shaving with electric razors). When these people finally hang up their phones, they start TEXTING. I trust my driving, but I'm scared as fuck half the time I'm on the road anymore because of these asshats who start their car and then do anything BUT drive.
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jhocking

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Also I'm very careful with crossing streets and such, because I've been hit by a car before and boy is that terrifying. And yet, I've almost been hit at least 20 times since working at my current office. And this is just trying to walk through the parking lot. It's because no one is looking where they're going and no one seems to give a shit.

Where I have the most trouble is crossing alleys and driveways, not entire streets. I'll be walking on the sidewalk and whoosh someone comes out of nowhere and almost hits me.

You're lucky then. Most places I've lived, if you put a blinker on people will speed up to make sure you CAN'T get in. This of course leads to less people using blinkers.
This is definitely true. I also dislike when people turn on their turn signal and assume that automatically means they have the right to merge right away. Oh, and when people turn on their turn signals right as they begin to turn makes me go all murderface.

hey at least they signaled before assuming they can just barge over.

Also, I've done things like drive out of Boston after the fireworks with no difficulties, so I tend to assume if people aren't letting you over then you are doing something else that makes you an asshole.

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It's illegal in the UK to use a mobile phone when driving (unless it's handsfree), which makes a lot of sense. I'll never forget the time I was cycling home from college and saw someone looking in the rear-view mirror to brush their hair while driving.
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nekowafer

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It's illegal here in Maryland as well - but plenty of people still do it. It's a secondary offense so I guess they figure they're okay.

It's great that these people aren't scared of driving but some common sense concerning paying attention to the roads would be awesome.
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Elysiana

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I'll admit, I talk on the phone while driving. Especially when my commute was an hour and fifteen minutes on mostly freeway - it was a good chance to talk to my mom without having to set aside time that I needed to clean house or have dinner. I don't talk on the phone when other people are in the car, and I've never even gotten close to having an accident. I think that's maybe because I pay more attention to my driving than the phone though - I've been in the car with people who seem like they have no idea they're even driving when they're talking on the phone.

Also, if I'm in town or there's traffic, I don't use my phone at all - only when I'm on long stretches of roads with very few cars. If I'm in town and desperately need directions or something like that, I use speakerphone.

I know I'm bad for doing it, but oh well. I'm sure someday I'll have some near-death experience and that'll learn me.

*puts on flame-retardant suit*
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David_Dovey

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For example, when turning right at an intersection, people stop and wait, even if there is a lane dedicated to the people turning right. I get that you need to see who is coming from the left, that's great, but when there's a whole lane just for you, fucking go already. The fact that they don't see that lane means that they aren't even looking. Which means that they're morons.

Drivers are constantly retarded all over the world for a whole range of reasons and yet you choose to call out as retarded an instance in which people are actually being more cautious than the situation requires?

Choose yr battles
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Elysiana

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But that's not just being too cautious, it's upsetting the flow of traffic. If I'm turning right and see that there is an entire lane and a yield sign, I expect that the person in front of me also sees this and will not just out-and-out STOP. It's like not signaling and then slowing down suddenly to turn - if nobody else has any idea what you're going to do, you're just making everyone else slam on their brakes, putting everyone in danger.
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The Seldom Killer

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... *puts on flame-retardant suit*

Several studies under simulated conditions have shown that even when people try to pay more attention to the road than the phone, using a phone whilst driving will make a driver's reactions as bad, if not worse, than if they were over the legal limit for alcohol consumption. Not only that but also that responses made whilst holding a phone tend to be less appropriate and with less control than when not on the phone.

You say that you use speakerphone when driving in traffic which seems to show some recognition of the impact of phone use on your driving skills, if you feel the need to use the phone regularly while driving would it not be worth getting a headset to at least reduce the risk of an accident?

And I suppose my other question would be that if you think a near-death experience woudl be enough to stop you, why would you wait. After all it's a pretty fine line between a near-death experience and an actual-death experience, one that you might be the one that you have to live with.
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bainidhe_dub

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Yeah, I have heard somewhere (though now I'm thinking it may have been Mythbusters, but also somewhere else more scientific) that just the fact that you are engaged in conversation, whether or not your hands are still on the wheel, makes you less able to fully concentrate on driving.
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SonofZ3

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I just have a hard time buying the "I'm so busy the only time I have to talk when I drive" argument that I tend to hear. I was never too busy in college, between course work and a night job, to take 15 or 20 minutes to make a phonecall in the evening. Even at the busiest time of the year, between work and things that need done around the farm I still have a couple hours leisure time I could use to call people.

My fiance's sister is fucking terrible with her phone in the car. She'll call her husband as soon as she gets in her vehicle. I was riding with her about a week ago, around 5pm and she said "I need to call Dan" I said "Oh? Whats up?" to which she replied "I haven't talked to him since like 9 this morning", because being out of contact with someone for a whopping 8 hours WHILE THEY'RE AT WORK is some kind of emergency?
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calenlass

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My fiance's sister is fucking terrible with her phone in the car. She'll call her husband as soon as she gets in her vehicle. I was riding with her about a week ago, around 5pm and she said "I need to call Dan" I said "Oh? Whats up?" to which she replied "I haven't talked to him since like 9 this morning", because being out of contact with someone for a whopping 8 hours WHILE THEY'RE AT WORK is some kind of emergency?

I guess people don't really remember anymore what it was like before instant communication. It is actually kind of nice to be away from someone for awhile, because then when you see them again you actually have some stuff to talk about! Seriously, only seeing my boyfriend 2 or 3 days a week makes it so much better. I know things are different when you are married and cohabitating and all, but like, surely a work day is not that long. I think I wasted about 6 hours on the internet last night, and I was perfectly fine not talking to people for the WHOLE duration of that time.

What do she and her husband talk about when she calls him every couple hours, anyway?
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nekowafer

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I am almost never on the phone at all. I checked my cell's timers the other day, just out of curiosity. I've had it for just over a year and I've spent a total of 24 hours in calls. Much of that time was probably spent listening to voicemail. I find it ridiculous that anyone would really need to be on the phone, in the car, unless it's an emergency. And texting is never an emergency - so that's even more ridiculous.
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ackblom12

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Man, we have a friend on a shared cell phone plan that spends about 60 hours a month on the phone along with 2000 - 3000 text messages a month. It is ridiculous.
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Elysiana

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My daily schedule used to be:
Wake up at 6:15
On the road by 6:45
Get to work at 8:00
Work til 5:30
Get home at 6:45
Eat, clean up, work on client's websites etc. til 9:00
Maybe read a bit, asleep by 9:30

It sucked! Luckily I've only got about a half hour drive to work now, which means I don't have to get up so early and can stay up a little later, so I can make almost all my calls from home anymore.

If we're gonna ban cell phones while driving, ban passengers from talking haha. I have more trouble when there's someone else in the car because they're usually waving their hands about and being expressive which means I've got one more visual distraction on top of the aural one.
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jhocking

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What do she and her husband talk about when she calls him every couple hours, anyway?

They argue about how annoying it is that she keeps calling.

ibrahimdelil

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Luckily I've only got about a half hour drive to work now,

i've noticed that you guys are living so far away from your workplaces. i mean, the distance from my house to the office is only 7.5km - it takes about 15 minutes to get there and even that makes me want to stab myself. how do you guys stay sane on hour-long commutes baffles me.
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Elysiana

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I wasn't staying sane, that was part of why I quit my last job. I used to live about 50 miles away from work, and then we moved into a house that was 85 miles away. There was just nothing in town for my line of work at the time. Now I'm about 18 miles away. Saves on gas, keeps me sane!

The funny thing is, I realize that it sounds ridiculous that I'm like "Yay, only half an hour!" but I don't think I've ever had a job that was less than 15 minutes from home, and that was just one job.
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Living in a small town and working in a big one meant I sometimes took an hour or more to get to work... at places like Subway and a beachside fish and chip kiosk.
Now I work in a big big city and live just outside it and it takes half an hour to get to work. I used to live much closer but that was too expensive. I miss my seven minute commutes, though.
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Until now, every job I have had has taken me at least half an hour to get to, and sometimes two hours (when I had to walk there). Now, of course, I am living in my workplace so it takes a matter of seconds, but I think that is quite rare.
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ban passengers from talking haha.

Alec Issigonis, the designer of the original Mini, did exactly that when driving.  He also designed the seats to be uncomfortable to help keep the driver alert.
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SonofZ3

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They're both the type that bitch and complain a lot, so they bitch and complain to each other about people they work with. I've had to ask my fiance not to text me while I'm at work, just for a break.
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ummmkay

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the job i had during college, i had to drive from the office to the campus every day to drop off deposit bags at the bursar's office and generally run errands. i used to always call my mom then because i liked the consistency, and she liked knowing my schedule and when i would call. i guess i get what people are saying about talking on phones while driving, but i will probably continue to talk on the phone while driving. it's never been a big deal to me! although i will say that texting while driving is basically the worst thing you can do ever.

i think that the area you live in contributes to this a lot too. i live near a city, but it's not a CITY city. we have traffic of course, but it's very much a different driving atmosphere than someplace like, i don't know, atlanta. or chicago. or something.
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The Seldom Killer

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I ride about an hour each way every day to work which is a route of about 12 miles. It's a little longer than I'd prefer but we're house sitting rent free at the moment.

On the subject of being on the phone while driving, this is what happened to Bruce Bursford. Bruce being a cyclist is irrelevant to my point which is to illustrate that on a clear day, on a dry, straight, flat road, using a moblie phone can distract you enough to miss something pretty obvious.

That wouldn't happen to you though, right?

That's a non-specific "you".
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Elysiana

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That's a horrible thing to have happened, but I do notice it was because he was looking for his phone, not on it. That seems a decent distinction to make.

I have gotten closer to an accident by looking over my shoulder to merge a split second too long or "hey look at that weird thing over there" than I ever have while on the phone. Ryan was telling me last night about a friend of his who a few years back lost an arm and the use of his legs because he tried to reach a cd that fell on the floor. Some lady rear-ended my mom because she JUST DIDN'T REALIZE Mom's brake lights were lit up and the light was red.

I'm not claiming that I'm immune to distraction when I'm on the phone, but there are all kinds of distractions, and driving is ALREADY a matter of being able to multi-task.

I've had/seen this convo a million times, everyone's going to have their opinions on it and I've never really seen either side change their mind heh. So, *shrug* I dunno.
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The Seldom Killer

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I don't doubt that this will have zero effect. The sad reality is that in any area, habituated human behaviour is rarely changed by reasoned argument. However, I cannot accept that as justification that those arguments should not be made.

I could have posted worse than the crash that killed Bruce Bursford, but that was a clear illustrative case. Besides, there's no benefit to being ghoulish about such things. You're right on the distinction on distraction, but it's not that surprising how often that level of distraction can be replicated. To me it doesn't seem to bear invitation but my caution on such things might be more understandable in context; I've already had that near-death experience. Alas, as I wasn't the person driving while on the phone, modifying my behaviour won't change anything. C'est le vie.
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Does it affect anyone's opinion if driving whilst on the phone is illegal? I don't know if that is the case in every country now, but certainly it's getting increasingly common. I would never have used my phone whilst driving anyway - I'm terrified of taking my hands of the wheel for any reason, including changing gears - but the fact that I can also get points on my licence, be fined and potentially acquire a criminal record just means I'm not even going to risk it.

There was a woman in the UK a few years ago who was arrested for eating an apple whilst driving. That seems a bit draconian to me.
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ummmkay

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if talking on the phone was illegal and i could get pulled over/fined/ticketed/whatever for it, then i wouldn't do it. although... honestly i guess it would depend on how strictly enforced it was. depending on the situation i might put my phone on speaker and put it in my lap or something.

there are signs up all over my old college town that prohibit texting while driving, i think it's like a $200 fine.
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öde

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Eating while driving is fairly distracting too.

Yo dawg, we put a steering wheel and some pedals in your car so you can drive while you're driving.
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Jimmy the Squid

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I don't answer the phone if I'm driving. If I need to call someone I'll pull over. I'll check a text message if I'm stopped at a set of lights but I won't reply until I've pulled over or finished my trip. It's annoying but I don't want to crash or get pulled over or run over a child or animal. I have voicemail and I'm really good about calling people back so it ain't no thang.
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SonofZ3

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Exactly. I had a 4 hour drive across the state the other day to attend training. Told my fiance I'd text her when I get there, tossed my phone on the passenger seat and didn't worry about it for the next 4 hours.

different municipalities are passing ordinances against talking on phones while driving, but the state hasn't done anything to make it illegal yet. They should make it a primary offense (you can be pulled over for it), with no points and a 5 or 10 dollar fine. A five dollar fine ends up costing about a hundred bucks after all the costs and fees.
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The Seldom Killer

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Penalties like that seem only to serve as a deterent after they've happened, if at all. Basically that just amounts to revenue collection which is pointless if it doesn't reduce the actual risks.

Given the effect of driving while on the phone is comparable to driving drunk, I reckon the penalty should be comparable. Alternatively, if that is considered a bit harsh, I like the Finnish approach of issuing fines based on a proportion of income which means that everyone faces an equal deterrent.
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nekowafer

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I'm not claiming that I'm immune to distraction when I'm on the phone, but there are all kinds of distractions, and driving is ALREADY a matter of being able to multi-task.

Then why add more to the list of tasks by talking on the phone, eating, or whatever? Not trying to change anyone's mind - just making a point.
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ibrahimdelil

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how strictly enforced it was

here in turkey they take it pretty seriously. there's no way you're getting away without a ticket if an officer sees you talking on the phone, and the traffic police camps up just for that on different spots of the city everyday. i think it's a 50-60$ fine.
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Verergoca

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Eh, there is only one reason for me to make a call when driving, and that is to report dangerous situations to my work. (I work at Rijkswaterstaat). So far, im down to 2 accidents which happened before my eyes, 2 trucks, and one lost cargo of garbage. (If id call the generic emergency services, it would take longer to inform the traffic management centre which can close lanes if need be, also, there are loads of camera's all over the place).
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