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Author Topic: Bickering about bicycles, now with occasional tips about motorised vehicles  (Read 242380 times)

calenlass

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driving is ALREADY a matter of being able to multi-task

The biggest problem is how often people do not realise that they are, in fact, already multitasking. Especially when you have been driving for 20 years or what have you, a lot of the process becomes ingrained and automatic, and even though it is being processed through a slightly different part of your brain, it is still the same amount of brain power required to perform. When people think it is the same amount of activity as, say, walking the dog, in which case it is perfectly acceptable to simultaneously chat on the phone, text, eat a sandwich, or whatever, is when they are way more likely to cause a problem.
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Elysiana

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Man, I'm not coordinated enough to walk a dog and talk on the phone at the same time.

It's a joke I am only kidding.


Okay, more to add to the driving thing - if you have two lanes of traffic and one of them has slowed down and backed up considerably, I get it that it is safe for you to slow down a little bit in the clear lane to make sure nobody does anything stupid, but you don't have to match their speed! Holy crap people! You can go past!

And if you see a cop watching for speeders, you don't have to suddenly slam on your brakes and go 15 under! Snerrrgh!
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the_pied_piper

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And if you see a cop watching for speeders, you don't have to suddenly slam on your brakes and go 15 under! Snerrrgh!

This is one of the main reasons why standard speed cameras are sometimes considered fairly dangerous. It should be thought about beforehand that this is what people are going to do because really there are a fair amount of people who have complete disregard for speed limits at any time. The most efficient solution that I have seen used for this is an average speed camera setup whereby there are 2 sets of cameras around a mile or so apart and they record your entry/exit speeds and how long it took you to get from one end to the other to tell if you are consistently speeding.

As a side note, one of the worst problems I see on the roads are people just doing whatever the hell they feel like, i.e. switching lanes several times within a few hundred yards, undertaking and today as I was picking my dad up from the hospital somebody drove down a works lane over the speed limit and then didn't even bother to brake for a roundabout entry. That is the sort of driving that needs to be punished most, in my opinion.
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The Seldom Killer

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Yes, unfortunately the law seems to have forgotten that driving is a priviledge, not a right. Coupled with a lot of drivers forgetting that a car is a mode of transport, not a ball pit does lead to a lot of cockwomblery.

I'm all in favour of some draconian law enforcement but people just whinge about how they might lose their licences. Mind you, at least you know who to keep an eye out for.
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the_pied_piper

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A flurry of people losing their licenses might actually be what is needed to scare people into driving more carefully but it would likely have too many knock on effects for businesses and the like. Especially seeing as most of those who lose their licenses would probably be van and taxi drivers.
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nekowafer

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A suspension period could be helpful, though. Like, you do something stupid, you get your license taken away for a month. Or something. No long-term effects but the person might think more about what they did to get them in that situation.
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David_Dovey

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Losing yr license is pretty much a rite of passage among young Australian males, so I know a lot of people who have had suspensions and very, very few of them learned a single fucking thing from it.

I'm not trying to make any points or prove anything with that by the way, I'm jus' sayin'
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The Seldom Killer

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Especially seeing as most of those who lose their licenses would probably be van and taxi drivers.

I suspect not.

From the observant position of the saddle the reputation of van and taxi drivers far exceeds the reality. Not only that but most commercial vehicle asshattery seems to be precipitated by private vehicle asshattery.
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nekowafer

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Well yeah, there will always be those that just don't learn. And they should have their licenses revoked completely.

On that note, I think after having your license for a certain number of years, like 30 or so, you should be made to re-take the test. A lot can change in that time and it would be awesome to get the super-scary, very old people that can barely see or drive off the road. And remind those that can still drive of the rules.

My grandmother was driving me home one night and needed a tissue to wipe the condensation off the windshield. Instead of asking me to get it, or pulling over or something, she just leaned down and looked on the floor for one. Took her eyes off the road for a good 3 minutes and hit a curb. Thankfully that was the worst of it, but holy crap that was scary. I freaked out and she thought I was being ridiculous. Pssshhhh.
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Elysiana

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Yes, yes, yes!

Ryan's grandma (80 years old) had to give up her license this year because she's legally blind and her driving was even scaring herself. For Christmas this year her kids bought her a really pretty outfit, and they had to describe it to her while holding it three feet from her face. I was shocked because this was maybe two months after she gave up her license. Ryan later told me that her eyesight has been that bad for years. He had some really fun horror stories about riding with her.

I realize it's hard for folks to find someone to drive them around, but it would be nice if the government would make it a requirement that you be retested every 5 years after you hit, say, 65 years old, and if you can't pass then they would provide transportation. I know it's kind of a pipe dream, but still...
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nekowafer

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Yeah, most people that vote on such things are older, so it's pretty much never going to happen. But man that would be nice.
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Elizzybeth

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Driving thread, I got pulled over for the first time ever last weekend.

I was in the last half hour of a four-hour drive at about midnight, and I guess I was weaving a little.  The cop asked for my license, asked where I was going, said it was "perfectly understandable" that I might be a little tired, then told me he just wanted to make sure I hadn't been drinking and sent me on my way.

Adrenaline is much more effective than a cup of coffee!  I had no trouble staying alert for the rest of the drive.
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Elysiana

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That's good that he understood. Usually if you're not an ass to them, they listen to reason.

The first time I ever got pulled over, the person in front of me had slammed on their brakes and I didn't realize they were actually stopped until I was too close. There was (I thought) a turn lane opening up right next to them and I had to turn anyway, so I moved over onto it, but then realized that it didn't actually open up until about 50 feet ahead of that. A cop pulled out of traffic behind where I'd been and followed me til we were out of traffic and onto the highway, then pulled me over. I sheepishly explained what had happened, he said "I kind of figured it was something like that, you be careful now" and sent me along.
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Akima

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I realize it's hard for folks to find someone to drive them around, but it would be nice if the government would make it a requirement that you be retested every 5 years after you hit, say, 65 years old, and if you can't pass then they would provide transportation. I know it's kind of a pipe dream, but still...
Maybe not entirely a pipe-dream. In New South Wales, drivers aged 75 or over must pass an annual medical check including an eyesight test (though its rigour is arguable). Drivers aged 85 or over must either pass the annual medical and a biannual practical driving test, or (under new rules) switch to a restricted license which still requires the annual medical, but not the driving tests.
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SonofZ3

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My fiance got her first ticket the other day. Her inspection was expired for 6 months. It is illegal to drive in Pennsylvania with an expired inspection sticker. Her friends/family all said she should fight it and started on the whole "That cops a prick, theres no need for him to have cited you blah blah blah." She decided just to pay it, and we split the cost. It amazed me how all these third parties thought that she actually had a chance to win in court. 2 elements to her crime, operating on a roadway, and having an expired inspection. Both of those are undeniable, sooooooo guilty.
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benji

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Except that often if you put up a fight the cop is too busy to show up in court.
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jhocking

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I don't know how it is with that violation, but for most tickets the cop doesn't need to be in court. It would be pretty ridiculous if that was required since they're out, y'know, policing. The court assumes everything in his report is true unless you produce compelling evidence. Thing is, whether or not you are guilty many traffic courts knock of like half the penalty just because you went to the bother of going to court.
« Last Edit: 11 Feb 2011, 18:51 by jhocking »
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bicostp

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I can understand fighting it because you got pulled over on your way to the garage on the first business day after the inspection expired, but how do you not notice that for six months? And how could anyone expect that ticket to be thrown out? :psyduck:

The Seldom Killer

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It's odd really, in just about no other area of life can you be caught very clearly contravening a law and it be so socially acceptable to try to avoid any penalty for what is basically a crime. In a broad survey (by the AA I think) over 80% of drivers admitted to intentionally speeding and about 60% admitted to intentionally running a red light. A similar pattern applies to certain other laws as well.

Given this, it does rather gall me that the first line of objection drivers express about cyclists is that they don't abide by the rules of the road.
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calenlass

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unfortunately the law seems to have forgotten that driving is a priviledge, not a right

Actually, the law remembers this just fine. Sometimes it is inconsistently enforced, but it is drivers that forget that, in the US, while they have a right to own a car and drive it, that right to drive it is only effective on private roads. Public roads? Whole other animal.
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The Seldom Killer

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unfortunately the law seems to have forgotten that driving is a priviledge, not a right

Actually, the law remembers this just fine. Sometimes it is inconsistently enforced,

In my experience, limited as it may be, that sometimes is very frequent. Quite often the penalties applied by the policing and justice systems seem quite eager to ensure that the driver remains on the road. I can remember reading about on instance in Texas where a driver had racked up seven DUI's before loosing his license and was able to get it back on appeal. The driver who killed Eilidh Cairns was found to have vision too poor to be driving without correction (which he did not have at the time) and was fined Ł400 including costs with no points. The driver who killed Maurive Broadbent, Dave Horrocks, Wayne Wilkes and Thomas Harland was found to be driving a vehicle that was unroadworthy at speeds inappropriate for the road considitions, Ł180 and had six points put on his license. The driver who killed Jason MacIntyre....

I could go on at length. I could post tale after tale where the police have refused to turn up to an accident. I could post more where they've turned up and decided that it's not worth bothering with. Can't be bothered with the paperwork, don't want to even issue an incident report number so an insurance claim can take place. Even those that do make it to court subject the victim to some arcane notion of what cyclists are expected to do on the roads. All the while a lot of sympathy and bias is afforded to the driver. Because of the social circles and communities that I'm a part of I really only keep up with the cycling aspect of things. A friend of mine in the Ramblers/Living Streets assures me that pedestrians often get and equally rough deal.

When I say that the law has forgotten, I'm not referring to the actual statues written down but those people who are employed, paid and entrusted with it's fair and equitable application are all too frequently letting down the most vulnerable to favour those that have demonstrated a lack of any reasonable regard for the rules they should abide by and the safety of those that they interact with. When it comes to the roads, those that embody and represent the law are collectively acting like a bunch of asshats. The shining examples of good practice are too few and far between.

Jeez I fucking harp on don't I. I should just sell all my bikes and buy a car.
« Last Edit: 12 Feb 2011, 07:37 by The Seldom Killer »
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calenlass

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I was not actually referring to cyclists at all. I meant in general, because you never specified and I thought you did, too.
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The Seldom Killer

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I wasn't originally, my harping on was using material that I'm familiar with to highlight how I see the issue manifest. But it extends beyond the inequity of treatment of cyclists, or even pedestrians. As I mentioned before, there's a driver who racked up seven counts of DUI before having their licence revoked and then able to appeal to get it back. Here is someone demonstrating a complete disregard for the law and yet the application of the law favours this one person's desire to continue driving over a clearly identifiable public interest that he be stopped. Were this a single loophole incident then I could begin to understand, but that's not the way I see it at all and I don't have to look far to back up my opinion.
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SonofZ3

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That person should be in jail. I know of two cases where jail time for DUI was avoided because the driver was a single mother, and claimed no one could take care of the kids if they went to jail. One of them, that I hear about fairly often, continued drinking and driving on her probation without a license.
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edwinalink

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So yeah I am selling my car and I wan't to buy this bike.



My 47 pound freeride hardtail just isn't a fun commuter anymore.
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The Seldom Killer

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Ooh, that is a tasty ride. Looks like a cyclocross frame which usually makes for a pretty good commuting. Is it lugged for panniers?
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David_Dovey

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Don't buy that bike it's a total rip-off, it doesn't even come with pedals
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Akima

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So yeah I am selling my car and I wan't to buy this bike.
Drool... That's a nice bike with extra cool-points for the bar-end shifter. It looks like it has traditional headset bearings too; none of that integrated headset bullshit. It looks like there's plenty of room for mudguards (fenders), and eyelets front and rear to mount them, for those inevitable rainy commutes. The rims and tyres look a bit narrow for a commuter though, unless your neighbourhood has really well-maintained roads. I like kevlar-reinforced tyres myself (I run Schwalbe Marathon); the puncture-resistance is well worth the slight weight penalty IMHO. Oh, and if you're going to commute on a pretty bike like that, buy a good lock!  :wink:
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Ozymandias

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Quote
Country - Year - Population - Fatalities
UK - 2009 - 62,348,447 - 2,222 - 0,00356%
TR - 2010 - 77,804,122 - 4,041 - 0,00519%
CA - 2005 - 33,759,742 - 2,767 - 0,00819%
US - 2009 - 310,232,863 - 33,808 - 0,01089% (lowest in 50 years!)

To draw a conclusion based solely on this data assumes:

A linear correlation between traffic density and population
No correlation between travel distance and fatality rates
An identical ratio of cars to people in cited nations
An identical ratio of time spent driving per capita in cited nations

It would also be useful to know a breakdown in causes:

Impaired driver
Unsafe vehicles
Weather conditions
Unsafe driving (but driver otherwise unimpaired)

The strongest conclusion you can make based on this data is that a person is more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident in America than in Turkey. That's not meaningless, but it only makes a statement on the victims, not the drivers.
« Last Edit: 13 Feb 2011, 16:41 by Ozymandias »
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pwhodges

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The strongest conclusion you can make based on this data is that a person is more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident in America than in Turkey. That's not meaningless, but it only makes a statement on the victims, not the drivers.

I don't agree.  Except in the case of purely external accidents that can be described as "act of God" (bridge collapse due to building fault, tree branch falling on vehicle, etc), each driver is required to be responsible for the safety of their car, and to drive in a safe manner appropriate to both external and personal conditions (weather, length of journey, state of health, etc).  My belief is that acts of God are a rather small cause of road deaths, so the figures for victims per year are close to those for drivers causing a death per year.  

It would be interesting to compare figures for deaths per mile driven and deaths per hour of journey, however (I thought of including deaths per journey, but decided that the difficulty of defining a single journey made that pointless).
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KharBevNor

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(bridge collapse due to building fault, tree branch falling on vehicle, etc),

I know this is nitpicky and doesn't really affect your argument, but a bridge collapsing wouldn't generally be considered an act of god. Act of god is a legal term which means basically that no human agency can be held responsible or have any degree of culpability for whatever it is that has occured. If a bridge collapses then someone, either the people who designed it, the people who built it or the people responsible for mainting it and certifying it have screwed up. Even the second thing might not be an act of God if, for example, it was caused by some dodgy tree surgery, or even if the tree was obviously diseased and should have been removed by its owner. Acts of God would really only refer to things like cars getting hit by lightning or tornadoes or flash floods or landslides (though even the last two might not be acts of God). A more accurate legal term might be force majeure or vis major. I dunno, I'm not a lawyer.

Anyway, carry on.
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edwinalink

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Ooh, that is a tasty ride. Looks like a cyclocross frame which usually makes for a pretty good commuting. Is it lugged for panniers?

I dunno, I know it has fender mounts. Traitor basically markets this bike as halfway between cyclocross and Touring. kinda like the Salsa vaya but less tour more Cross.

Drool... That's a nice bike with extra cool-points for the bar-end shifter. It looks like it has traditional headset bearings too; none of that integrated headset bullshit. It looks like there's plenty of room for mudguards (fenders), and eyelets front and rear to mount them, for those inevitable rainy commutes. The rims and tyres look a bit narrow for a commuter though, unless your neighbourhood has really well-maintained roads. I like kevlar-reinforced tyres myself (I run Schwalbe Marathon); the puncture-resistance is well worth the slight weight penalty IMHO. Oh, and if you're going to commute on a pretty bike like that, buy a good lock!  :wink:

My Scott had about 7,000 miles on it before I stopped commuting on it (and gained 40 pounds) I am actually thinking about building it new, From the frame up.

My plan is for a slightly heavy build, Avid BB5 mech disc brakes on Deore Hubs laced to Velocity Deep V rims. with a 1x10 drivetrain. and a flat bar, messenger style cockpit (though probably not that narrow)

and when all is said and done, it gets brightly colored BMX pedals and a well padded seat. xD
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The Seldom Killer

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If you've specced it up that far, you should go for SPDs or feetbelts.
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edwinalink

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If you've specced it up that far, you should go for SPDs or feetbelts.

I like to wear real (cheap) shoes. so SPD's are out of the question. but these Feetbelts intrigue me...
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The Seldom Killer

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Another name for toestraps.

How cheap is cheap for shoes? You can get some cycling shoes for fairly low prices.

Also aren't Avid BB5 brakes are only cable pull rather than hydraulic? If so you'd probably get better performance out of a decent set of canti's.

Akima - I run 700x23 in Sheffield, the self proclaimed pothole capital of England and they do fine.
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The strongest conclusion you can make based on this data is that a person is more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident in America than in Turkey. That's not meaningless, but it only makes a statement on the victims, not the drivers.

I don't agree.

He wasn't saying that that drivers aren't at fault in most accidents (at least, I assume he wasn't saying that, because that's a pretty ridiculous position,) His point was that those figures tell you how likely you are to be the victim of a car accident but those figures don't tell you how good/bad the drivers are.

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Given that as a first approximation each accident has one driver who is at fault, they still tell you that the likelihood of being the driver in a fatal accident in any given period is three times greater in the US than in the UK. 

If drivers travel on average three times further each year in the US than in the UK (do they? I really have no idea), then that makes their record per mile  the same; but note that long-distance roads (motorways in the UK) are generally much safer per mile travelled than others, so it's still a matter of interpretation.
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No, see, there's zero information about drivers at all there. Only citizens of the respective nations. One does not have to be a citizen to be a driver, nor does one have to be a driver to be a citizen.

If America has 100m drivers and Turkey has 10m, then a driver in Turkey is more likely to kill someone than an American. Obviously, the reverse can just as easily be true. We simply have no data in this regard from that.
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calenlass

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How cheap is cheap for shoes? You can get some cycling shoes for fairly low prices.

Is "fairly low prices" anywhere less than $30?
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Another name for toestraps.

How cheap is cheap for shoes? You can get some cycling shoes for fairly low prices.

Also aren't Avid BB5 brakes are only cable pull rather than hydraulic? If so you'd probably get better performance out of a decent set of canti's.

Akima - I run 700x23 in Sheffield, the self proclaimed pothole capital of England and they do fine.

Yeah, 30 bucks or less. flat footed cheapo's.

I don't like the weakness of cantilever brakes. the amount of Modulation is great. but I always take Linear Pull V-brakes or disc.

And discs stop a whole lot better in the rain and snow than any rim brake does. the pads also last longer.

I'm personally really pleased with Mechanical discs in Urban applications. Up on the mountain its hydraulic or nothing. but even in the hilliest cities I've ridden, Mech discs do fine.

regardless I don't think that frame has V-brake bosses. and if the Avids don't work out. I can always slap hydraulics on at a later date!
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calenlass

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OH MY GODDDDDDD YOU DICKS THE PARKING DECK COUNTS FOR DRIVING LAWS TOO
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Hey everyone, I need to buy some new bookshelves. When I get back from Ikea and put them together you're all invited to the bookshelf launch party.

edwinalink

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Whats a Parking Deck?
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calenlass

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Parking Garage. Parkhaus. Graduated Parking Lot. Whatever.
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Hey everyone, I need to buy some new bookshelves. When I get back from Ikea and put them together you're all invited to the bookshelf launch party.

edwinalink

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Oh okay, We don't have a lot of those around here. I had never heard them called that.

Now I'mma use that phrase all the time. oh yeah.
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calenlass

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What did you call them?
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Hey everyone, I need to buy some new bookshelves. When I get back from Ikea and put them together you're all invited to the bookshelf launch party.

nekowafer

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They're parking garages here. Or "those things I still can't figure out how to navigate" but that's kind of too long to say every time.

Seriously, all the going around in circles just confuses my already awful sense of direction.
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what she said was sad, but then, all the rejections she's had, to pretend to be happy could only be idiocy

edwinalink

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Yeah, I'd never heard them called anything other than parking Garages.

I also agree with them sucking.
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calenlass

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Well, it all works out if you just follow the signs, generally. They do that for me too, but THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE YOUR POOR DRIVING BEHAVIOUR YOU FUCKERS

YIELD STILL MEANS YIELD

YOU STILL HAVE TO USE YOUR TURN SIGNAL

LBAUGHLBAUGHLBAUGHLBAUGH
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Hey everyone, I need to buy some new bookshelves. When I get back from Ikea and put them together you're all invited to the bookshelf launch party.

pwhodges

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I guess you guys are talking about multi-storey car parks, or just multi-storeys for short.
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'Car parks', or just 'parking'. No real need to differentiate between the single and multi-layered ones.
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One day ends and another begins and we're never none the wiser.
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