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Poll

Yes, it's finally here: the MOMENT OF THE WEEK!

Finally startin' to check out other girls, huh?
- 0 (0%)
Well I mean it's been WEEKS, I AM a single dude... now..
- 0 (0%)
SLAP! (I'm out of practice!)
- 4 (4.5%)
Don't tell me you're still hung up on Dora.
- 0 (0%)
WE ARE BROS, MAN! WE! ARE! BROS!
- 8 (9%)
UMASS Guys! "BROS! BROS! BROS! BROS!"
- 14 (15.7%)
I know it's over, I just... still miss her, y'know?
- 1 (1.1%)
The other night, Cosette...
- 15 (16.9%)
Good talk, bro.
- 9 (10.1%)
Who's that waving? Why, it's PADMA!
- 6 (6.7%)
My baby bird's finally left the nest!
- 3 (3.4%)
I wouldn't wipe my eyes with that towel...
- 2 (2.2%)
Mister coffee-and-a-danish
- 1 (1.1%)
Padma, Renee and Elliot.
- 0 (0%)
So... So...
- 2 (2.2%)
Who's your cute friend over at the bar?
- 15 (16.9%)
Elliot's look of sheer HORROR
- 9 (10.1%)

Total Members Voted: 76


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Author Topic: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)  (Read 108053 times)

Carl-E

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #250 on: 17 Feb 2011, 04:29 »

I'd be happy with a name for MMB.  Back story would be nice too, though. 

And I think I made the same point Odin did, but in another thread.  I pesonally like the TheBiscuit's theory.  Padma's sick as hell of Renee's crankiness and is attempting a matchmaking episode. 

Hijinks ensue, of course...
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cyro

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #251 on: 17 Feb 2011, 04:52 »

two weeks after a relationship serious enough for dora to move in?

two months is just about what you'd expect i guess, especially from a wuss like marten

Coul this be.. no, it couldn't. Could it?

Not... Character development:psyduck:
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Odal

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #252 on: 17 Feb 2011, 04:53 »

Padma's sick as hell of Renee's crankiness and is attempting a matchmaking episode.
If that is what she's planning then I think that's the last thing on Marten's mind.

In the early strips it wasn't Faye's abusive nature or crankiness that made him attracted to her.  They shared interests and could talk about stuff.  I do remember some strips where Marten spoke of his attraction to her physically as well.  Renee doesn't have the same curvy body shape as Faye, and there's a good chance that their personalities don't really connect.  I don't buy the thought that he's attracted to abusive women.  Rather he was attracted to Faye for other reasons.


EDIT:
Quote
there's a good chance that their personalities don't really connect.
On second thought, I can't say Dora and Marten even had wonderfully connecting personalities.  Marten doesn't seem to have much a of a specific or strong personality... he's just a nice guy.  But I guess all it takes is two people who want to be in a relationship to make that relationship happen.  So, who knows...?
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2011, 05:00 by Odal »
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snubnose

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #253 on: 17 Feb 2011, 05:18 »

Err, so soon after the breakup with Dora ? Baaaaaaaad idea.

What is "soon" for you? Do you know how much time has passed since the breakup? Because I have no idea..

Marten's smile is possible the best thing I've seen in this comic since a long time ago. It's like "hey... I can move on!"
I don't know about you guys, but I felt glad with that smile, probably the first time Jeph has done something that hits home. Good done Jeph!
Its not good if you immediately jump into the next relationship after the last one failed. You need some time to think things through. Especially find out why the previous relationship failed. So you might not repeat the same errors the next time.

Otherwise Dora will turn into just another "They're all crazy".

And about time ... I dunno, maybe a week or two ? Not more than three.
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2011, 05:33 by pwhodges »
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #254 on: 17 Feb 2011, 05:25 »

Suddenly I'm reminded of a line from Christopher Titus Norman Rockwell Is Bleeding.


And ladies, we men don't have a post-breakup 2-week eat-cookies-and-cry period.  We've got a 'I'm gonna go out and find a woman who looks just like you and @#$%^ her just to prove I don't need you!' period. 


Granted, that didn't work so well for him.
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Border Reiver

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #255 on: 17 Feb 2011, 05:43 »

Getting back to Wil, I'm really not liking the patch of hair under the lip - go for the full muttonchops or Victorian Army style campaign beard - something thick enough to hide a badger in.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #256 on: 17 Feb 2011, 06:07 »

Bros before...?

Hoes.    - 17 (13.8%)
Shoes.    - 1 (0.8%)
Nose.    - 1 (0.8%)
Crows.    - 5 (4.1%)
Ploughs!    - 4 (3.3%)
Pink Popped Shirted Guidos.    - 27 (22%)
Tau Sigma Rhos.    - 2 (1.6%)
Oh Noes!    - 20 (16.3%)
UMASSholes!    - 6 (4.9%)
Wait - WHAT Wedding?    - 19 (15.4%)
Waffle-Os!    - 21 (17.1%)

Total Voters: 123
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The Seldom Killer

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #257 on: 17 Feb 2011, 06:17 »

Other, another slap for stareage
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tbones

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #258 on: 17 Feb 2011, 06:21 »

Come ON guys! he's going to talk to a gal in a bar! How in anyone's world is starting a new relationship? :mrgreen:

Otherwise Dora will turn into just another "They're all crazy".

Ok, i don't mean to pry about an old old theme, but Dora was a liiiiiitle paranoic about the relationship.

Not that i'm saying that Marteen is without guilt, just saying...


Coul this be.. no, it couldn't. Could it?

Not... Character development.  :psyduck:

No! This will be a DISASTER! Everyone run for their liveeeees!!! :psyduck:


...
Okay enough joking around, i really enjoyed today's comic, that was a genuine happy smile from Marteen!  :lol:
And also... Isn't tears a bodily fluid too?

*EDIT*
uhm, it's been a while since i came here buuut, what's BBD? 
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2011, 06:23 by tbones »
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Lubricus

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #259 on: 17 Feb 2011, 06:34 »

I don't buy the idea that Padma is waving to Marten in order to set him up with anyone else - she looks pretty fascinated, and not at all like she is planning on passing him on to Renee once he comes over. But we'll see soon enough.
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someone1074

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #260 on: 17 Feb 2011, 06:49 »

Hm...to me it seems like they've either become close friends in the time skip or they're interested in each other. Their faces are practically glowing (and especially considering we haven't seen Marten smile in a wihle (which Jeph acknowledges in the newspost), it's something), and the wave was pretty enthusiastic. Maybe the bar is supposed to be packed, but I didn't get that impression from what we've seen in the panels so far.

I'm not going to speculate beyond that, but judging by what we've been presented...I can't fault some of the board members for their predictions.
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #261 on: 17 Feb 2011, 06:57 »

Friendship can be enthusiastic before it goes on to anything further; all the more so when you've been feeling lonely.
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Carl-E

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #262 on: 17 Feb 2011, 06:59 »

BBD is something like Big Bakery Dude.  For lack of a name. 
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Black Sword

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #263 on: 17 Feb 2011, 07:06 »

Today's comic cheered me immensely. Marten looks genuinely happy, and I like Padma so far. Can I haz Mart-Pad ship, plz?

It would be such a nice turn for Marten.

P.S. If BBD is Big Bakery Dude aka ChunkyGuy, what's the little one with the scar's nickname?

P.S.S. Someone mentioned the first case of a guy getting AIDS through the eye. Wouldn't it be HIV, and didn't CSI have an episode where a guy did a snuff porno with an HIV-positive former porn star and got infected via his eye because of a drop of blood?
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2011, 07:12 by Black Sword »
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tbones

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #264 on: 17 Feb 2011, 07:26 »

P.S. If BBD is Big Bakery Dude aka ChunkyGuy.
Thanks!!

what's the little one with the scar's nickname?

hum.. How about.... Scar?
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #265 on: 17 Feb 2011, 07:38 »

For all the naysayers about Marten daring to go to talk to Padme, there seems to have been a significant time skip, hence Steve asking Marten if he was still hung up over Dora (#1862). The keyword is still, implying that Marten has been a little funk prone for more than the expected time after the break up.

And given how Faye's hair looks "grown out" last week compared to her sleeping over at Angus', we can assume that some time has passed.

And, he's going over to a girl who has waved to him in a bar, one we can presume he has become friendly with during the time skip, they haven't made the beast with two backs, bucked the bronco or whatever terminology you want to use. Right now, its just two people in a bar, who see excited to see each other, and thats the way it'll stay until Jeph changes it, if he chooses to.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #266 on: 17 Feb 2011, 07:44 »

I'm just trying to clarify whether that's actually Renee next to her, because she really looks like Tai and not much at all like Faye, or if Renee is someone else we still haven't met that works a different shift.

Also, Marten: when getting friendly (or maybe that should be "getting friendly") with your ex's clone, proceed with caution, bro.
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Antario

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #267 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:01 »

eh yeah...thats renee alright, she's not even close to tai appearance wise...
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The Seldom Killer

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #268 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:02 »

I see what you mean but if you compare the as yet unnamed female employee from 1845 with Faye in 1857 and 1858 then you'll see some marked similarities that could justify the correlation made by Dora.

On the other hand, if tSB is supposed to mirror CoD then counterpoints would exist for five people (Dora, Faye, Penelope, Hannelore, Cosette) and we have so far only seen Padma, BBD, Scarneck (isn't this a tattoo?) and giant blender burner so you could be right.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #269 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:04 »

We don't know what the name of the young lady to Padma's right is we haven't been formally introduced yet.

All that has happened is that we know one of the other employees of TSB is named Renee and used to date Angus.  People have extrapolated that the young lady referred to is the one pictured today, but we have inferred that this is who it is.  Maybe tomorrow we will have confirmation, or it'll be a cut to a single panel comic - BBD lying on the bar floor, Marten nursing an obviously painful stomach, with Steve being escorted from the premises by Wil with the line, "I know he's your friend, but you can't just go hitting people like that."  And the girls looking horrified.

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #270 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:11 »

So Steve gets pink-eye from that rag next story arc, right?
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #271 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:12 »

if tSB is supposed to mirror CoD then counterpoints would exist for five people

I really do think this is being taken too far, being based on nothing more than Marten's original comment about the atmosphere when he first went to tSB.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #272 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:19 »

Thank you Pwhodges. 


Kind of like how fans hang on the words of Trek Characters as if they speak the Gospel Truth.


Kirk says something happened in this time period...  say a hundred years ago.       They show it in TNG as having happened 110 years and nine days ago.    SUDDENLY THERE IS MUCH WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.    It can get ugly trust me.  ;)


 It's SOMEWHAT UNLIKELY that we are going to have a complete "alternate mirror universe"   CoD.    In fact the signs are already showing that this is not the case.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #273 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:20 »

Quote
All that has happened is that we know one of the other employees of TSB is named Renee and used to date Angus.  People have extrapolated that the young lady referred to is the one pictured today, but we have inferred that this is who it is.

"About 19 hours ago", Jeph tweeted that he planned to tweak Renee's skin color, possibly in tonight's [i.e., today's] strip. I'd say the inference is a pretty strong one on that basis.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #274 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:30 »

if tSB is supposed to mirror CoD then counterpoints would exist for five people

I really do think this is being taken too far, being based on nothing more than Marten's original comment about the atmosphere when he first went to tSB.

To be fair, I wasn't basing that on Marten's original comment but on common forum parlance. Secondly, I was only using it to dispell the notion that the current other woman that we have seen from tSB has to be a) Renee and b) therefore some presumed counterpoint Faye. Thus proving that the current round of speculations didn't strictly stand up. I don't see what is so unreasonable about using a viewpoint against itself to demonstrate it's poor quality.
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #275 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:32 »

OK, you did say "if".  Anyway, that line will die quick enough as new information emerges.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #276 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:33 »

A little off topic, and a little off kilter, but whats funny for me is that we use the abbreviation tSB, which always reminds me of these guys who used to be known as TSB.
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someone1074

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #277 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:39 »

I really do think this is being taken too far, being based on nothing more than Marten's original comment about the atmosphere when he first went to tSB.

You see nothing in the character designs? At all? I mean that might just have been done for fun, but I think that's definitely fueling some of the comparisons too.
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #278 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:42 »

You can always find some individual similarities; that doesn't mean they add up to anything.

(FWIW, I work in clinical trials, so I have quite some awareness of the ease with which wrong conclusions can be conjured out of patterns in dust.)
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"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #279 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:48 »

Its not good if you immediately jump into the next relationship after the last one failed. You need some time to think things through. Especially find out why the previous relationship failed. So you might not repeat the same errors the next time.

Otherwise Dora will turn into just another "They're all crazy".

And about time ... I dunno, maybe a week or two ? Not more than three.

yeah yeah I agree, but it's common sense so.. meh. The thing is that we DO NOT know how the timeline goes in QC. Come on... From one comic to another we got SNOW and Dora with pretty long blonde hair, that doesn't happen within "a week or two". This could have easily been a month after the breakup at least.
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someone1074

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #280 on: 17 Feb 2011, 08:51 »

I recognize that it's not necessarily determinant of anything as I qualified that it might have just been done for humor's sake. My statement was more suggesting the possibility that it's also the character designs that are fueling the speculation.

Essentially, I'm giving the members the benefit of the doubt in believing their postulation is based on more than a single line of dialogue that I, personally, hadn't remembered. Similar character designs and similar characterization however...that would be far more reasonable, even if it is still somewhat presumptuous.

And again, I don't even agree with them...I just disagree with the belief that it was all based on one line of dialogue.

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #281 on: 17 Feb 2011, 09:27 »

In my lexicon, those two characters will forever be Pseu-Dora and Faux-Faye.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #282 on: 17 Feb 2011, 09:32 »

Padma does not equal Dora.  They just seem similar for that CoD and tSB joke.  We know nothing of her actual personality and for all we know she is the Marten of tSB as it appears they hire both sex and not just females.  I am interested in how this turns out.

And on the Renee situation.  My guess is Jeph could have been doing an insight of what would have happened if faye and marten got together.  As faye currently is more stable and if Jeph did want to do a mirror-mirror thing then its only right to have Renee still be unstable.  Would that mean Padma actually could relate to marten, not insecure about relationships, have a lower sex drive, and approach a prospective guy without worrying if its been enough time?  Perhaps we will find out tomorrow.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #283 on: 17 Feb 2011, 09:33 »


And, he's going over to a girl who has waved to him in a bar, one we can presume he has become friendly with during the time skip, they haven't made the beast with two backs, bucked the bronco or whatever terminology you want to use. Right now, its just two people in a bar, who see excited to see each other, and thats the way it'll stay until Jeph changes it, if he chooses to.

Actually, I think the idea that they've become friendly is reading too much into this. Marten was in her shop as a customer, she then sees him in a casual setting a couple of weeks later. If she thought he was cute and would like to meet him again to get to know him (which is what her expression says to me), she smiles and waves at him when he looks over. Marten sees a woman he kinda sorta met before wanting to say hi to him, which is a very nice switch for him after the past few weeks.

This is how people meet each other.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #284 on: 17 Feb 2011, 10:12 »

Presumably Marten has been getting his daily caffeine at tSB for the last couple of weeks. He could easily know Padma and her entire staff by now. So recognizing a familiar dude she waves at him from across the room. Or may be the next strip will include a round of introductions. Let's just wait.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #285 on: 17 Feb 2011, 10:35 »

BBD is something like Big Bakery Dude.  For lack of a name.  

What about MMB, then?  (used here:)

I'd be happy with a name for MMB.  Back story would be nice too, though.  

And I think I made the same point Odin did, but in another thread.  I pesonally like the TheBiscuit's theory.  Padma's sick as hell of Renee's crankiness and is attempting a matchmaking episode.  

Hijinks ensue, of course...

Also: HOORAY for Secret Bakery people hopefully becoming regulars and HOORAY for Happy Marten!
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2011, 14:04 by The Duke »
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #286 on: 17 Feb 2011, 10:39 »

A little off topic, and a little off kilter, but whats funny for me is that we use the abbreviation tSB, which always reminds me of these guys who used to be known as TSB.

Personally, I preferred the other rhyme TNG
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LeeC

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #287 on: 17 Feb 2011, 10:46 »

woaw, what if Padma likes marten, BBD likes Padma, Renee likes BBD  :psyduck:

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tbones

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #288 on: 17 Feb 2011, 12:05 »

Meh, we've been through worse

(Dora likes Marten, Marten likes Faye, Faye hooks up with Sven who is Dora's brother) :psyduck:
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2011, 12:10 by tbones »
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khendron

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #289 on: 17 Feb 2011, 12:26 »

You can always find some individual similarities; that doesn't mean they add up to anything.

(FWIW, I work in clinical trials, so I have quite some awareness of the ease with which wrong conclusions can be conjured out of patterns in dust.)

One Renee/Faye similarity that I find very striking is, in Renee's first appearance she walks in off-frame to say that something is on fire. This is Faye-ism that Jeph has used many times, especially in the early comics (e.g., "The TV melted", "The bookshelf is on fire", "The cappuccino machine is on fire...").
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Is it cold in here?

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #290 on: 17 Feb 2011, 12:36 »

What about MMB, then? 
Something like Mopey Muscular Boy, I forget what exactly.

If Angus's description of Renee is for real, and if Marten falls for her, I'm gonna call the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Characters.
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cesariojpn

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #291 on: 17 Feb 2011, 12:42 »

So Steve gets pink-eye from that rag next story arc, right?

Wait......

*checks archives*

HOREY SHYTE!!! Steve is a goner. Death by rags.

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daryljfontaine

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #292 on: 17 Feb 2011, 14:04 »

What about MMB, then? 
Something like Mopey Muscular Boy, I forget what exactly.

Mopey Male Barista.  That one was mine.

D
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #293 on: 17 Feb 2011, 14:35 »

For all the naysayers about Marten daring to go to talk to Padme, there seems to have been a significant time skip, hence Steve asking Marten if he was still hung up over Dora (#1862). The keyword is still, implying that Marten has been a little funk prone for more than the expected time after the break up.

And given how Faye's hair looks "grown out" last week compared to her sleeping over at Angus', we can assume that some time has passed.

And, he's going over to a girl who has waved to him in a bar, one we can presume he has become friendly with during the time skip, they haven't made the beast with two backs, bucked the bronco or whatever terminology you want to use. Right now, its just two people in a bar, who see excited to see each other, and thats the way it'll stay until Jeph changes it, if he chooses to.

I just noticed something: look at Hanners' hair in 1855, then to 1856.

That's where your timeskip was.
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #294 on: 17 Feb 2011, 14:51 »

"This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship."
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #295 on: 17 Feb 2011, 15:12 »

Either that, or "Round up the usual suspects"
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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #296 on: 17 Feb 2011, 15:38 »

"I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that there's GAMBLING in this establishment!!"

"Your winnings, sir."

"Oh, thank you."



As for what's going on:

It has been WEEKS since the break up, according to Marten in comic #1861. That could be anything from 14 days to two months, but the dialogue in 1861 suggests that Marten at least feels that enough time has passed that he should at least think about ladies other than Dora.

Also as someone pointed out, both Hanners's and Faye's hairstyles have changed.

It has still not been established in continuity that the girl with short hair and glasses to Padma's right in today's comic is in fact Renee, but it seems logical to make that assumption given what we have seen.

Now, in today's comic, Marten and Padma both seem excited to see each other. Whether this leads to a new romance remains to be seen, but...

And to everyone who says that a Marten/Padma thing can only end badly, I have to ask, Isn't that true of all relationships?

I mean if a relationship means anything at all, it's sad when it ends, and it will end eventually, either with a break up or a funeral.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #297 on: 17 Feb 2011, 15:40 »

I just noticed something: look at Hanners' hair in 1855, then to 1856.

That's where your timeskip was.

Ah, you are indeed correct, good eye.
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MillionDollar Belt Sander

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #298 on: 17 Feb 2011, 15:48 »

Indeed!  Good eye! 

And good art too!   :)
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...

jwhouk

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Re: WCDT 14-18 February 2011 (1861-1865)
« Reply #299 on: 17 Feb 2011, 18:42 »

Another thing I just noticed from today's (1864) comic: It looks like Renee (and do NOT get me started; it's all but confirmed that that is her name) is saying, "Well, stop staring at him and invite him over here already."

Meanwhile, BBD is busy texting this "friend" of his.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing: notice how quickly the intoxication bubbles disappeared over Marten's head in yesterday's (1863) comic after Steve dropped the BJ TMI on him...
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2011, 18:43 by jwhouk »
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"Character is what you are in the Dark." - D.L. Moody
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
Just another Joe like 46
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