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Couch is going down!

Couch is going up!

-.. .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- .- -. --.

[Method of Madness]

Nope.  Simpsons reference.

Hmm, hmm. Theres over 20 seasons of Simpsons now ... and while I like compareable shows like South Park and Futurama a lot, Simpsons kind of got very boring after a while.

Agreed.  But this was a fairly early episode, well within its golden age (I think it was season .

[Is it cold in here?]

Sven and Faye interacting like normal people is fun to see and evidence of progress. (I deliberately said "normal" and not "functional").

[akronnick]

If Marten had shown up he probably would have been welcome simply for the greater lifting ability.



On the other hand, Steve, Angus, Jimbo, Penelope, Wil, Marigold, the other Bartender from tHR, Renee, Padma, Tai, Hanners, Momo, Pintsize and Winslow would probably each contribute more lifting capacity than our skinny indie boy...

[WaffleIron]

Euphemism for the female vagina?

What, there are other types?  (my first psyduck)

I imagine Sven and Faye are both stronger than Dora. How'd she draw the short straw?

[ysth]

1997?

[Kugai]

Yup, definitely NOT the best time for Marten to have shown up.


Hmmm, 1997 - Foreshadowing?

[Carl-E]

Probably Sven's graduation t-shirt.  The comic started in about '03, right?  After 8 years, it's moved about 4 years, so it's 2007 or so, Sven's about 10 years out of high school, makes him about 28 to Dora's 27 or so. 

The Wiki needs a timeline of some sort, but it probably wouldn't coincide with the one in Jeph's head. 

[pwhodges]

A timeline would be rather hard to arrange, as the comic's references to the real world remain contemporary even though time passes at a different speed in the comic.

[Tormuse]

I just love the fact that two people are taking the light end together while one person is taking the heavy end. 

[J]

god i hate moving

[Odin]

I am simply amazed at your skill to change a simple joke into a reason for hatespeech against what you call "nice guy".

I'm not the one that coined the term, but Marten is still very much one (has been since the comic began and I've covered the point repeatedly in past WCDTs and other threads where Marten does something shitty and people act surprised by it--that's just his character and all I'm doing is pointing out that people shouldn't be surprised by it at this point; which means that it isn't even hate speech at this point so much as "stop being surprised by this, people, Marten is actually a shitty person and not really someone you should be rooting for that much").

If that was indeed a joke, it sucked, because that kind of thing is never actually funny in any context. Why would Marten (or anyone) even be asking something like that in jest (hint: They don't, the only people that vocalize questions like that are people that are fucked enough in the head to actually be bothered by it and who are still fixated on the other person)?

[mike837go]

Oh, the joys of getting your friends to help you move.

Did that ONCE!

The subsequent 3 times were by professionals.

The friendships those saved was well worth the co$t.

[Tova]

Are these forums some kind of bizzare social experiment?

It was a joke, god.

[Firebolt145]

I got instantly reminded of this scene from Friends:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJYH4lO6Bug

[mike837go]

Are these forums some kind of bizzare social experiment?
It was a joke, god.

No, it is a bizzare social reality.

Everyone expressing their own opinion. Like a huge party. But with less drugs.

[Border Reiver]

Oh, the joys of getting your friends to help you move.

Did that ONCE!

The subsequent 3 times were by professionals.

The friendships those saved was well worth the co$t.

Moving apartments/houses not a huge problem.  now my buddy with the Graphic Arts buisiness?  That is a problem.

The man has a paper cutter made in 1848 - made of flippin' cast iron - nothing like dismantling it then moving the bits - the bolts holding it together weigh about a pound each and don't remind me of the frame....

[Odin]

Oh, the joys of getting your friends to help you move.

Did that ONCE!

The subsequent 3 times were by professionals.

The friendships those saved was well worth the co$t.

This.

Plus, unless you're talking literal piles of huge furniture, this isn't even that expensive if you've already moved all the small stuff and all you're hiring them for is to move the couch & bedroom furniture.

[The Seldom Killer]

Frankly disappointed in today's comic. Seriously, three educated, intelligent people don't know how to lift a sofa down some stairs.



Alright, not actually disappointed. Amused and also feeling a little superior.



Mind you, feeling superior to fictional characters isn't as fulfilling as one would hope.

[mike837go]

Frankly disappointed in today's comic. Seriously, three educated, intelligent people don't know how to lift a sofa down some stairs.
Alright, not actually disappointed. Amused and also feeling a little superior.
Mind you, feeling superior to fictional characters isn't as fulfilling as one would hope.

Read Douglas Adams' "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency" about how to get a couch up a stairwell! Semi-spoiler: The process is a sub-plot through most of the book.

[WaffleIron]

blah, blah, Marten is actually a shitty person, blah

One of the defining features of your so-called "nice guy" is that everything they do, however altruistic it may seem, is actually driven by selfishness. I have seen nothing of that in Marten. He's almost always looked out for his friends even when there was nothing in it for him.

I saw Marten's comment as mostly a sarcastic dig at Faye. But even if he is bothered whether Dora's seeing someone else that doesn't mean he's fucked in the head. They just broke up. It takes to move on. He has clearly gone a fair way but it's not surprising if he still has feelings for her.

I think Faye was actually a bit rude in her response. Marten had gone to COD to see Dora in person, so he clearly wasn't chickening out. He would have been out of line to tag along with Faye when she went to help Dora move. Why shouldn't he ask Faye to pass on a small greeting?

I wonder if Faye will mention anything to Dora in the next few comics.

[Odin]

Frankly disappointed in today's comic. Seriously, three educated, intelligent people don't know how to lift a sofa down some stairs.

Were they trying to go up the stairs or down the stairs?

Either way, none of the people involved are all that educated. Has QC even bothered covering the educational background of Dora and Sven? Dora doesn't have to have a degree to own a coffee shop and Faye is a damn barista that does not attend college in her off time working on any sort of degree, so she is not educated either. And Sven, well, he maybe has a degree in music production/theory or something since he has people trying to intern with him, but that isn't exactly applicable to moving furniture.

As for intelligence, well, the antics up until now in the comics should discredit that notion far enough that today's fucking around trying to move a couch wouldn't be that huge a departure from the norm.

blah, blah, Marten is actually a shitty person, blah

One of the defining features of your so-called "nice guy" is that everything they do, however altruistic it may seem, is actually driven by selfishness. I have seen nothing of that in Marten. He's almost always looked out for his friends even when there was nothing in it for him.

That is actually a more recent development (and only really in his relationships with Hannelore, Marigold and people-other-than-Faye-and-Dora), his early history in the comic was very much driven by selfishness, though.

I saw Marten's comment as mostly a sarcastic dig at Faye. But even if he is bothered whether Dora's seeing someone else that doesn't mean he's fucked in the head. They just broke up. It takes to move on. He has clearly gone a fair way but it's not surprising if he still has feelings for her.

They broke up two months ago, QC-time, after dating and living together for a grand total of 6 months QC-time.  

I think Faye was actually a bit rude in her response. Marten had gone to COD to see Dora in person, so he clearly wasn't chickening out. He would have been out of line to tag along with Faye when she went to help Dora move. Why shouldn't he ask Faye to pass on a small greeting?

The point was that he shouldn't be involving Faye at all in the post-breakup nonsense with Dora, which is correct (if a bit hypocritical given how much whining Faye did after things went tits-up with Sven).

I wonder if Faye will mention anything to Dora in the next few comics.

Why would she? I mean honestly, what would be the point in doing that when Faye has her own issues to work on without getting involved in the problems Dora and Marten have with each other?

[Mr_Rose]

Dora has a business-related degree of some sort, Sven has an intern he met at an alumnus benefit and Faye quit college half-way through a fine arts degree mostly specialising in metal sculpture, which is applicable to furniture moving because have you ever tried to install a large steel objet d'art? Worse than sofas man. Even when you've got a loading dock and a clear pathway.

[IlGreven]

1997?

"1997 was an American pop/rock band from Chicago, Illinois, who formed in October 2005. They released three albums between 2007 and 2009, but broke up the following year."

It's either that, or Sven's HS class.

[The Seldom Killer]

Either way, none of the people involved are all that educated. Has QC even bothered covering the educational background of Dora and Sven? Dora doesn't have to have a degree to own a coffee shop and Faye is a damn barista that does not attend college in her off time working on any sort of degree, so she is not educated either. And Sven, well, he maybe has a degree in music production/theory or something since he has people trying to intern with him, but that isn't exactly applicable to moving furniture.

As for intelligence, well, the antics up until now in the comics should discredit that notion far enough that today's fucking around trying to move a couch wouldn't be that huge a departure from the norm.

The QC wiki lists the educational background of all three characters. All three attended college, Faye dropped out owing to a psychological breakdown but prior to that was a straight A student. Not sure what the term elsewhere in the world would cover but in Secondary/High School level education. Certainly it's a lot more than I ever did. Well I did attend College, but failed all of my A-levels outright. As for intelligence, whilst the characters aren't averse to silliness and other mischievy, they have all at some point engaged in some discussion that requires an above average level of intelligence to participate. Perhaps it's one of those perspective things, were they real people, I would class just about all of the characters in QC as more intelligent than me, therefore ,educated and intelligent.  Still, having worked in removals for some time in the past, I can assure you that education and average intelligence are not industry requisites. Moving furniture really only requires that the application of a small amount of logic and rationale.

Also, regards upthread, I have read Dirk Gently and although a good running joke in the book, sofa's inextricably stuck in stairwells is less likely than Schroedinger's cat being both alive and dead when the box is opened.

[WaffleIron]

Were they trying to go up the stairs or down the stairs?

I still haven't figured that out. Up makes more sense since they're stuck on the corner and if they were going down they'd be past it already. But Why would Dora be going backwards from the rear end?

Still, I didn't think it took a degree to move furniture. Have none of them played tetris?

That is actually a more recent development (and only really in his relationships with Hannelore, Marigold and people-other-than-Faye-and-Dora), his early history in the comic was very much driven by selfishness, though.

Only in the very early comics. And i put the change more down to Jeph finding Marten's character rather than his character actually changing.

They broke up two months ago, QC-time, after dating and living together for a grand total of 6 months QC-time.  

I didn't know the timeline, but it sure feels like they were dating longer than that and broke up more recently than that. In any case, everyone is different. I do not think that 2 months equals fucked up territory.

The point was that he shouldn't be involving Faye at all in the post-breakup nonsense with Dora, which is correct (if a bit hypocritical given how much whining Faye did after things went tits-up with Sven).

Why not? Faye's his friend. Fayes Dora's friend. This isn't some bitter spat, he's just wanting to know that Dora's doing OK

Why would she? I mean honestly, what would be the point in doing that when Faye has her own issues to work on without getting involved in the problems Dora and Marten have with each other?

Once again, because she's their friend, and she presumably knows that Dora would be interested.

What exactly do friends do if not get involved in each others lives?

[Odin]

Either way, none of the people involved are all that educated. Has QC even bothered covering the educational background of Dora and Sven? Dora doesn't have to have a degree to own a coffee shop and Faye is a damn barista that does not attend college in her off time working on any sort of degree, so she is not educated either. And Sven, well, he maybe has a degree in music production/theory or something since he has people trying to intern with him, but that isn't exactly applicable to moving furniture.

As for intelligence, well, the antics up until now in the comics should discredit that notion far enough that today's fucking around trying to move a couch wouldn't be that huge a departure from the norm.

The QC wiki lists the educational background of all three characters.

Is the Wiki maintained by Jeph or by third-party internet readers of the comic?

Were they trying to go up the stairs or down the stairs?

I still haven't figured that out. Up makes more sense since they're stuck on the corner and if they were going down they'd be past it already. But Why would Dora be going backwards from the rear end?

Depends on how it's easier for someone to lift something like that. Since Dora is on the heavy end of the couch, she may be relying on her leg strength and using her back to support the weight of the couch. That stance also makes it easier to brace against the couch falling on her than if she is facing into it (if the couch were to suddenly drop, she could crouch with it and not be pushed over backwards and crushed beneath it down a flight of stairs).

I didn't know the timeline, but it sure feels like they were dating longer than that and broke up more recently than that. In any case, everyone is different. I do not think that 2 months equals fucked up territory.

There is a lot of dispute over the timeline (arguments over the starting point being either when Marten hangs out with Dora without Faye around or when they actually date/start fucking, etc.), but the point I was going for is that the relationship moved into "Let's live together!" territory way too fast and the breakup also being pretty soon should mean the relationship shouldn't take that long to get over. Unless it is literally Marten's second "real" relationship.

It should literally be more along the lines of Marten thinking "Damn, what the hell was I thinking moving that fast in a relationship" not "Hey, is she boning other dudes already?".

Why not? Faye's his friend. Fayes Dora's friend. This isn't some bitter spat, he's just wanting to know that Dora's doing OK.

Because friends don't use each other as go-betweens during post-breakup recovery time outside of high school. It invites needless drama and stinks of asking mutual friends to "choose sides" post-breakup.

Once again, because she's their friend, and she presumably knows that Dora would be interested.

What exactly do friends do if not get involved in each others lives?

See above.

[The Seldom Killer]

Is the Wiki maintained by Jeph or by third-party internet readers of the comic?

I would guess that it's maintained by third-party internet readers of the comic. However, as each fact in the relevant sections are linked directly to the canonical articles that confirm them I don't really see why you're asking the question? Unless you're doubting the author's own provenance?

[pwhodges]

Odin, you state several opinions about people's actual or expected behaviour as if they are absolutes; they are not, as human behaviour is pretty much infinitely variable.  And the ability of people to visualise the movements necessary to get a couch round a tricky bend is also highly variable (and shows no correlation with intelligence - whatever that is anyway - in my experience).

Also, the comic timeline is not merely unknown, but not even clearly defined in Jeph's own mind; I seem to recall that some considerable while ago he remarked that the comic had run for something between six months and two years.

The wiki is nothing whatever to do with Jeph.

[Odin]

Odin, you state several opinions about people's actual or expected behaviour as if they are absolutes; they are not, as human behaviour is pretty much infinitely variable.

That is a pretty meaningless stance to take, pwhodges. Also wrong, since humanity in general is not an infinite array of unique snowflakes. Even the most varied theory on personality characteristics had only 4,000 variables while modern takes on the same theory have taken it down to 16 or even as low as 5 (though the stipulations within each variable became more complex).

And the ability of people to visualise the movements necessary to get a couch round a tricky bend is also highly variable (and shows no correlation with intelligence - whatever that is anyway - in my experience).

Not really, the only variables to consider are the dimensions of the couch vs. the dimensions of the turns you have to take in the stairwell and how to best manipulate the orientation of one while traveling through the other. It really isn't that difficult to do and that was the entire point (though I was taking the opportunity to disparage the characters in a completely different direction than the person I was quoting).

Also, the comic timeline is not merely unknown, but not even clearly defined in Jeph's own mind; I seem to recall that some considerable while ago he remarked that the comic had run for something between six months and two years.

When we had the discussion at the time of the breakup, somebody quoted Jeph as having tweeted that the relationship had been between six to eight months from first-meeting to breakup.

The wiki is nothing whatever to do with Jeph.

Pretty much my point (can't use it as a reliable source for answering comic-related questions, especially given how easily wikis are vandalized/altered).

[WaffleIron]

Depends on how it's easier for someone to lift something like that. Since Dora is on the heavy end of the couch, she may be relying on her leg strength and using her back to support the weight of the couch. That stance also makes it easier to brace against the couch falling on her than if she is facing into it (if the couch were to suddenly drop, she could crouch with it and not be pushed over backwards and crushed beneath it down a flight of stairs).

But if you're facing forward you lean in to the couch and can see it as it is pulled away. If you are facing backwards and the couch is pulled away you are going to fall.

Because friends don't use each other as go-betweens during post-breakup recovery time outside of high school. It invites needless drama and stinks of asking mutual friends to "choose sides" post-breakup.

But he's not using Faye as a go between. There are no sides; Marten and Dora are not fighting. Faye was just a convenient point of contact since she was about to go see Dora.

Not really, the only variables to consider are the dimensions of the couch vs. the dimensions of the turns you have to take in the stairwell and how to best manipulate the orientation of one while traveling through the other. It really isn't that difficult to do and that was the entire point (though I was taking the opportunity to disparage the characters in a completely different direction than the person I was quoting).

And the weight/distribution. Those couches aren't made of air (and if they were I'd suggest deflating them first.)

[pwhodges]

That is a pretty meaningless stance to take, pwhodges. Also wrong, since humanity in general is not an infinite array of unique snowflakes. Even the most varied theory on personality characteristics had only 4,000 variables while modern takes on the same theory have taken it down to 16 or even as low as 5 (though the stipulations within each variable became more complex).

That sounds an extraordinary claim.  In any case, I was merely wanting to point out that you cannot simply say that "Marten shouldn't be involving Faye at all"; many people would disagree with you over whether it is necessarily inappropriate.  You seem to define the acceptable world in terms of (what I presume are) your reactions to situations without being prepared to countenance others.

Not really, the only variables to consider are the dimensions of the couch vs. the dimensions of the turns you have to take in the stairwell and how to best manipulate the orientation of one while traveling through the other. It really isn't that difficult to do

You may think that way, and I may agree; but observation shows that many people simply cannot think in this manner.

[Carl-E]

Odin, you state several opinions about people's actual or expected behaviour as if they are absolutes; they are not, as human behaviour is pretty much infinitely variable.

That is a pretty meaningless stance to take, pwhodges. Also wrong, since humanity in general is not an infinite array of unique snowflakes. Even the most varied theory on personality characteristics had only 4,000 variables while modern takes on the same theory have taken it down to 16 or even as low as 5 (though the stipulations within each variable became more complex).

Odin, are you familiar with chaos theory?  Even with only two or three variables, some systems become completely unpredictable!  And again, you're stating that someone's opinion is wrong, a statement of absolutes.  You really seem to prefer them, which makes you a hard pill to swallow at times...

And the ability of people to visualise the movements necessary to get a couch round a tricky bend is also highly variable (and shows no correlation with intelligence - whatever that is anyway - in my experience).

Not really, the only variables to consider are the dimensions of the couch vs. the dimensions of the turns you have to take in the stairwell and how to best manipulate the orientation of one while traveling through the other. It really isn't that difficult to do and that was the entire point (though I was taking the opportunity to disparage the characters in a completely different direction than the person I was quoting).

Doesn't mean some people don't have trouble with it.  3-D visualization is not a universal skill. 

The wiki is nothing whatever to do with Jeph.

Pretty much my point (can't use it as a reliable source for answering comic-related questions, especially given how easily wikis are vandalized/altered).

Take a look, it's very well done and well documented.  You may even be able to contribute something, like the tweet info you cited. 

Wait, maybe you shouldn't.  You seem the type to mess with a wiki just for the halibut.   

[SirDudley]

Well, today's comic is a nice breather.

I too know how hard it is to move a couch. A few years ago, I had to help my mom take a couch of hers to get restored (since the restorer did not have a pickup service). The restorer was several blocks away and sweet Jesus, was the couch HEAVY AS HELL. We were cursing at each other about every other corner, and by God did my arms hurt afterwards.

So yeah, Sven and Faye have every right to complain about the couch being heavy. Although, to be fair to Dora, she is handling her side on her own while her helpers are bitching. I guess there's a bit of a balance there. I do recommend that Sven and Faye do not drop the couch on Dora. Because Dora will more than likely unleash the Four Horsemen on their asses. At minimum.

[Odin]

But if you're facing forward you lean in to the couch and can see it as it is pulled away. If you are facing backwards and the couch is pulled away you are going to fall.

There is this constant force called Gravity, see. You may have heard of it, and that is the force that will prevent this from happening if you are the putz on the heavy end of the couch trying to go up stairs.

But he's not using Faye as a go between. There are no sides; Marten and Dora are not fighting. Faye was just a convenient point of contact since she was about to go see Dora.

Marten and Dora aren't currently fighting because they have had no contact since the breakup, which was a pretty rough and hostile one due to Dora's "Fuck you I don't have to take this, I'm out!" when Marten was getting sick of never standing up for himself in an argument.

And the weight/distribution. Those couches aren't made of air (and if they were I'd suggest deflating them first.)

If it's light enough for Dora to take the heavy end going up the stairs, it really isn't that bad.

That sounds an extraordinary claim.

The progression is outlined briefly on Helping Psychology.com on one of their pages talking about personality trait theory, this isn't really that extraordinary a claim to make.

In any case, I was merely wanting to point out that you cannot simply say that "Marten shouldn't be involving Faye at all"; many people would disagree with you over whether it is necessarily inappropriate.

Argumentum ad populum is almost always wrong, you should know this.

You seem to define the acceptable world in terms of (what I presume are) your reactions to situations without being prepared to countenance others.

Why should I countenance reactions that I've observed as always leading to worsening a given situation as being good and valid reactions to a given situation?

Like, in this case, asking a friend to relay a message to an ex after a particularly nasty breakup where the friend doing the asking was also a bit of a drunken asshole to the person they're asking a favor of not long after the breakup. Is Faye not allowed to still be aggravated about it or (as I've interpreted how she acts around Marten in the comic) nowhere near as close a friend as she used to be after that? Is she not allowed to make that decision with regard to how she treats Marten?

You may think that way, and I may agree; but observation shows that many people simply cannot think in this manner.

That is irrelevant, since we were talking about whether or not it required actual intelligence to do and not perspective.

Odin, are you familiar with chaos theory?  Even with only two or three variables, some systems become completely unpredictable!  And again, you're stating that someone's opinion is wrong, a statement of absolutes.  You really seem to prefer them, which makes you a hard pill to swallow at times...

Chaos theory doesn't say that systems become completely unpredictable, just that we're very bad at tracking all of the required variables at the precision required for some chaotic systems (never mind that the shorthand Crichton used in certain popular novels was wrong, but don't get me started on that).

Doesn't mean some people don't have trouble with it.  3-D visualization is not a universal skill.

Granted, but it isn't all that difficult to figure out that there should be two people at the heavy end of the couch when you're coming up on a corner in a stairwell (so that they can support the weight while the person at the light end lifts their end of the couch higher so the required turning radius to get the couch around the corner gets smaller).

[WaffleIron]

There is this constant force called Gravity, see. You may have heard of it, and that is the force that will prevent this from happening if you are the putz on the heavy end of the couch trying to go up stairs.

No, see you have that backwards. Gravity is precisely the force that will make you fall over. (It really depends on how much pushing you do vs. how much pulling the other end does.)

And what is this heavy end of which you speak? Last I checked most couches were symmetrical.

Marten and Dora aren't currently fighting because they have had no contact since the breakup, which was a pretty rough and hostile one due to Dora's "Fuck you I don't have to take this, I'm out!" when Marten was getting sick of never standing up for himself in an argument.

And there's no sign that either currently harbours ill thoughts towards the other. Not that they actually know that since there hasn't been any contact. Regardless, Marten wasn't using Faye to keep at a distance from Dora; quite the opposite in fact.

If it's light enough for Dora to take the heavy end going up the stairs, it really isn't that bad.

To pick straight up from the ends maybe. But when you have to twist and turn it, and confined space means you can't get to the ideal leverage points, even a modest weight can become difficult to handle.

[Odin]

No, see you have that backwards. Gravity is precisely the force that will make you fall over. (It really depends on how much pushing you do vs. how much pulling the other end does.)

If Dora is facing into the couch while trying to go up the stairs, she's already in a bad balancing position with regard to carrying that end of the couch up the stairs (unless she lifts it up to her shoulders and uses her arms to push it up that way, requiring a lot more work in addition to lifting with her legs like she is now).

And what is this heavy end of which you speak? Last I checked most couches were symmetrical.

The end of the couch Dora is holding, where all of the weight is on her and all Sven and Faye are doing is keeping the front end from hitting the stairs as Dora pushes the couch up?

And there's no sign that either currently harbours ill thoughts towards the other. Not that they actually know that since there hasn't been any contact. Regardless, Marten wasn't using Faye to keep at a distance from Dora; quite the opposite in fact.

Marten plainly does, considering how he had to psyche himself up for going to the coffee shop to begin with.

[DSL]

Aw crappin' crap craps, to quote a character of whom I'd like to see more.
Or maybe daaaaaaaaaaaaannnnng, to quote a couple others.
I was going to post something trenchant and witty about how moving couches can start a war among a group of pacifists, but y'all have taken care of that.
Sounds like the car wreck and the space shuttle explosion finally had their baby.

[Border Reiver]

The part of this that is amusing to me is that people are referring to the "light" and "heavy" ends of the couch as if the mass shifts when you bring it up the stairs.  Having moved a number of pieces of furniture up and down stairs from both sides I will simply state that whatever end you have is the "heavy end", unless of course all the change in the couch has shifted to one side.

[The Seldom Killer]

The wiki is nothing whatever to do with Jeph.

Pretty much my point (can't use it as a reliable source for answering comic-related questions, especially given how easily wikis are vandalized/altered).

Wrong, it can be used as a reliable source if the citations in place are accurate and verified by canonical articles. Unless you're suggesting that someone has also vandalised or altered the comic archive in order to correlate with an altered wiki entry. However, were that the situation, then the wiki would still be as reliable a source of information as the comic itself. Perhaps worth mentioning that referencing the wiki rather than the comic archive itself is the same as using any dedicated reference source on a specific subject in which it houses and groups information with a greater ease of access.

[pwhodges]

And there's no sign that either currently harbours ill thoughts towards the other.

Marten plainly does, considering how he had to psyche himself up

Psyching himself up doesn't necessarily mean he has ill thoughts, or even believes she has.  It's most likely simple nervousness. 

I presume you have never experienced this feeling in this situation, as you seem not to recognise it.

[Near Lurker]

...wait, whose couch is that?

[DSL]

...wait, whose couch is that?

... and the Game Ball goes to Near Lurker.

[TheEvilDog]

...wait, whose couch is that?

I was wondering that myself.

[mike837go]

...wait, whose couch is that?

I was wondering that myself.

I can't tell you who actually owns the couch, but ask yourself, "Who is in the process of moving?" and maybe you'll come up with a plausable hypothysis.

[Odin]

...wait, whose couch is that?

Dora's, obviously. She did have one of her own when she lived on her own before moving in with Marten, after all.

Psyching himself up doesn't necessarily mean he has ill thoughts, or even believes she has.  It's most likely simple nervousness.

Simple nervousness doesn't usually result in talking to yourself out loud (panels 1-4) as you try to psyche yourself up to do something (as opposed to, say, thought bubbles).

I presume you have never experienced this feeling in this situation, as you seem not to recognise it.

I make it a point not to move in with people that exhibit glaring red flags of instability in their life or have so much repressed resentment for someone that a bottle of alcohol causes me to be on the verge of attempted rape (because I'm not broken), yes.

[TheEvilDog]

...wait, whose couch is that?

I was wondering that myself.

I can't tell you who actually owns the couch, but ask yourself, "Who is in the process of moving?" and maybe you'll come up with a plausable hypothysis.

Except when Dora and Marten moved in together, they did something with her old couch, we don't know what. Seeing as how Marten and Faye have their own couch, I doubt they would have moved Dora's one into the apartment. So, it probably wasn't amongst the things that Sven collected after the break up and moved into his apartment. So, either Dora put her furniture into storage (which would have been a subconscious idea that the relationship wouldn't have worked) or she sold her stuff.

[Tergon]

I think the confusion here is that people have assumed that Dora sold her couch when she moved in with Marten and Faye, yes?  Since we know that she obviously had a couch in her old place before moving in with them.  Well, we know that she rents storage to keep her car in, so maybe the couch and a few other items of furniture wound up there.  Or, maybe she simply bought a new couch.  Who knows?  But it's not like couches are hard things to come by, really.  And since they're moving Dora into her new apartment, and that couch is clearly being lifted up the stairs and thus being installed rather than removed, it's fairly simple to twig who the couch's owner is.




...it's Dora.  Dora owns that couch.


Edit:  Ninja'd by TheEvilDog!  But yeah, it's pretty straightforward if you think about it.

[DSL]

Well, Near Lurker, *I* thought it was funny.

[John_Knee]

For me it is pretty clear that the couch is being moved upwards and not down - otherwise the position of the corner wouldn't be relevant as they would have passed it and been on the straight if they were going down.

For me, I always find it easier being the person on the lower step like Dora. The advantage is that you can often rest the coach (or whatever) on your trouser's belt as an extra "support" (a technique often used in The World's Strongest Man events). If you are going fowards rather than the backwards way that Dora is using, you can often partly rest the couch on your front leg that is on the next step up and conserve your energy. Being lower, you use your legs to lift but then lean over and use your body weight to move the couch forward. The person at the top while travelling backwards has to make sure the couch isn't moved forward too quickly or they will run out of room to raise their first leg onto the next step and at risk of falling over backwards. The people at the top often seem to hold the couch lower down their body in relation to the person at the bottom which means they can't utilise their leg muscles as effectively.

What they should be doing to get around the corner is for Sven and Faye to start to lift the top part of the couch to be vertical so that Dora positions the bottom part of the couch on the landing step. Once the couch is sitting there vertical, you then tip the couch sideways so that it is leaning towards the second part of the stairs....

[pwhodges]

Simple nervousness doesn't usually result in talking to yourself out loud (panels 1-4) as you try to psyche yourself up to do something (as opposed to, say, thought bubbles).

But not infrequently it does.  Why do persist in denying what happens not to be part of your own experience?