Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Stantonhello]

Let me say first that I want to be very polite in the asking of this question- I apologize if it comes off antagonistic to you, when really it is really the comic that is the issue at hand.

I have not been reading the comic for eight years but I have been reading it for six years, which I hope you will grant me is a long time, a not insignificant daily commitment to something. Have I become a more irritable person in those six years? I don't know. But if I have one valid remark about this comic to make it is You Are Too Kind and You Could Stop This Comic If You Wanted to.

By no means is eight years an uncommon length for a successful webcomic and in other circumstances I would encourage you with full confidence but as it happens I'm not so confident here.

Bear in mind that I read your comic every weekday and often check the comic on Saturdays and Sundays forgetting that you are not so kind as to post every day. Why do I do this and complain? Because the comic is not telling a story and has not been telling a story for some time. Me and others only return to the comic every day out of a sense of loneliness and habituation. But I don't know that there is anything I'm waiting for.

Believe you me, I know that this is long-form narrative territory we are talking about. Potentially the longest form of narrative which I grant you requires a certain kind of pacing. But this webcomic builds towards nothing. It months if not years between dramatic scenarios of interest. The rest of the time is quite noticeably dead and quite regularly unfunny, and tells us nothing about them. It is a series of repetitive moments, with the characters making identical faux-pas and congratulating themselves on being themselves. I'm 22, and perhaps I'm exiting the demographic range, but should that really be the case?

The through-narrative need not exist, I'm not old-fashioned, but something more is necessary, and the comic crawls, as close to in real-time as is really narratively possible.

This is not to say that the comic is totally without merits or is always unfunny or is not in some way charming, because it is and has been. But the instinct to follow it has, for at least several years, been automated and pretty much without reward.

Your artwork is good and what music writing I've seen of yours is quite admirable. I think you are capable artistically of more than this. Will this project really be worth 15 years  given all that will come to be? If one really paces the thing out it could be even longer before these characters encounter serious change. Even though the strip is a comedy, do you not have the artistic responsibility to engage a narrative, especially being someone with the fanbase, resources, and talent to really make our time worthwhile?

Webcomic criticism is almost universally torn down on places like this so I don't expect much discussion to result. I just wanted to give you my opinion, and hope I did so respectfully, even if it is directed to something close to you.

I will see you tomorrow.

[Is it cold in here?]

Jeph doesn't check in here regularly so if you're trying to reach him this may not be the way to do it.

[dr. nervioso]

Well I'll be the first to say that jeph's writing has infuriated e from time to time. But I have forgiven, knowing the nature of the genre JJ writes in.

A comedic drama is a difficult genre to write well in. It's not just a soap opera with jokes thrown in, every personality of each character has t be made to be availible for punchlines. Look at Dora: A slightly sex-craved evil bosslord. Raven: a cute, bosomed science/emo lady who knows her way around a space time continuum. See, in the first 300 strips everything was set up like (to be completely honest) a slightly above average comedic drama. Steve, Marten, Faye, are all characters meant exclusively to further plot for the most part. Their only comedic worth was the interaction with Pintsize. When Dora became fully enveloped into the main cast, the true colors of QC started to shine. But, there were things with Faye already set up that jeph had to wrap up. The talk was both the most sap-opera esque arc and the last true sap opera arc.  It also carved Faye's role as the plot catalyst, ne who instigates plot sequences. Look at Sven. As for Marty, he kinda broke from his role as a plot catalyst into a a sort f mixture of both, essentially the same as dora, role-wise.

From their the cast exploded with these new breed of characters, hanners, mar-bear, Angus(Though I still group him in as a plot catalyst), cosette, penelope. These characters added a much needed texture to the comic which made the comic so great.

But why?

Because the comic wouldn't last with the original plan. It was t simple and would have lost its appeal. Jeph lacks the writing expertise to do a limited comic with in depth characters and relationships. This would require getting multiple layers to one character to get the same amount of depth as now. Adding more interesting characters gives an easier way to give depth t the universe and keep things fresh by adding classic drama events (ie Breakup) and recording the reactions.

The cost of this is an altogether slower comic, which can bore those more interested and who read for the drama. The comic isn't stagnant, rather,  instead f rapids, it's numerous streams intersecting and heading in the same direction.

[DSL]

Good Lord, is this supposed to be an ironic thread or something? Two long, rambling, posts complaining the comic is long and rambling. The gun held to your head compelling you to read the comic... Isn't real.

[Kugai]

QC is eternal

[WAYF]

Actually, I think that the comic HAS been telling a story, and although admittedly extremely distant, there is a point to be reached.
At least, that's what I got out of that recent interview Jeph did where he spoke about Marten's ambitions or lack thereof. The comic is about many things, but most of all it's about people who are as real as Jeph can make them. (that is to say, at times almost completely real, and at other times you have Pintsize and friends wandering around ) All of the characters have obstacles to overcome, but overcoming them takes time. Yes, it takes a lot of time, but eventually I imagine we WILL see Marten develop a sense of purpose in life, Dora WILL manage to get past the envy she feels for her brother which leads to her insecurity, Hannelore WILL be able to interact with people normally, and Marigold WILL develop some self esteem. Just to name a few examples.
The thing I think Jeph really nails down though, and the reason why he can't make the narrative as engaging as you'd perhaps like it to be, is that life doesn't just throw the answers at people who have problems. People are given opportunities to do things which help them with their problems, and usually it doesn't go all the way to solving them. It does however help the person (or character in this case) overcome their problem gradually, and eventually after enough help has been given, the problem is solved or its impact is negligible. That's proper character development.

(A good example is Faye and Dora's reactions to therapy. From the little that we've seen, Dora seems to be a lot more initially dismissive of it than Faye does, so naturally it is helping Faye a lot more than it probably will Dora.)

Yes, I imagine that it would be very initially satisfying if, say, Sven and Dora sat down and Sven expressed his regret for not being a very good role model for her and generally being chauvinistic and lazy while refusing to acknowledge his huge amounts of luck, and Dora managed to use this talk to move out of what she considers her brother's shadow and develop more healthy relationships as a result, but a few months, or even weeks after, you would look back on that momentous occasion and say "Hang on... that came out of nowhere!" It's completely unrealistic and unsatisfying in the long run, so that's why Jeph doesn't do it.


And if I may say, it's quite rude to request that Jeph stop the comic because you're bored of reading it. You come off as antagonistic because that request is, by nature, antagonistic.
Besides, I don't imagine that stopping the webcomic now would be a very economically smart move for Jeph, given that, you know, it's both his and his wife's source of income.

[Carl-E]

Yes, I imagine that it would be very initially satisfying if, say, Sven and Dora sat down and Sven expressed his regret for not being a very good role model for her and generally being chauvinistic and lazy while refusing to acknowledge his huge amounts of luck, and Dora managed to use this talk to move out of what she considers her brother's shadow and develop more healthy relationships as a result, but a few months, or even weeks after, you would look back on that momentous occasion and say "Hang on... that came out of nowhere!" It's completely unrealistic and unsatisfying in the long run, so that's why Jeph doesn't do it.

Instead, we get Sven making an overture to Dora by returning a doll he hid from her 15 - 20 years earlier.  Just like in real life...

I cleaned my garage last week, and found two toy sailboats that I had given my daughters.  We sailed them once, then I put them up in the garage for another day.  They sat there, behind accumulating clutter, for 12 years. 





We're going sailing again tomorrow. 

[pwhodges]

You Are Too Kind and You Could Stop This Comic If You Wanted to.

Presumably, as it is his source of income, Jeph does not  want to stop any time soon.  And as has been mentioned, Jeph does not often read anything in this forum these days - as far as I can tell, he may glance at it every few months.  In any case, it seems to me that that you are not merely making a commentary on the comic here, but on how Jeph chooses to live his life.  It would be more usual to reserve this kind of advice for friends - people you have got to know personally, and who in turn know you sufficiently well that they are able to judge the spirit in which it is given.

Me and others only return to the comic every day out of a sense of loneliness and habituation. But I don't know that there is anything I'm waiting for. [...] This is not to say that the comic is totally without merits or is always unfunny or is not in some way charming, because it is and has been. [...] I think you are capable artistically of more than this.

You're 22; you should be getting to see that many aspects of real life are exactly like that.  Indeed, the comic shows people largely in this state, and vignettes of how they cope with it for better and worse.  As for the demographic... there have been people active in this forum at times with ages ranging from 14 to 70, so perhaps age is not the determining factor.  Two other replies have shown how the comic can be viewed as achieving more than you are prepared to acknowledge.  I imagine that Jeph has some ideas about he he plans to develop his life and his art - he is much more intimately involved with them than any of us.

do you not have the artistic responsibility to engage a narrative, especially being someone with the fanbase, resources, and talent to really make our time worthwhile? [...] Webcomic criticism is almost universally torn down on places like this so I don't expect much discussion to result.

Jeph has no responsibility to you, or to me.  He makes his offering, and enough people enjoy it for him to make a living from it.  And if the criticism and discussion here break the rules and guidelines which are in place, then those rules and guidelines will be enforced - as you'd expect.

[Is it cold in here?]

eventually I imagine we WILL see Marten develop a sense of purpose in life, Dora WILL manage to get past the envy she feels for her brother which leads to her insecurity, Hannelore WILL be able to interact with people normally, and Marigold WILL develop some self esteem. Just to name a few examples.

But then where will the humor and drama come from?

New characters, of course!

Also:
Pwhodges put it better than I would have, but I'll just point out that there is an important distinction between criticizing the comic over the pace of the storytelling on the one hand and suggesting that Jeph find another job on the other hand.

[dragontart]

Actually, I would find it rather creepy if a (to me) random guy from the other side of the planet had any responsibility to me or my time only because he's drawing/writing and posting something on the internet.

Also, for reasons unknown, I don't feel an urge to keep checking on something that gets uninteresting on a daily basis, so I guess I don't quite understand the problem with a webcomic getting uninteresting, which somebody might please explain to me.

[dps]

Also, for reasons unknown, I don't feel an urge to keep checking on something that gets uninteresting on a daily basis, so I guess I don't quite understand the problem with a webcomic getting uninteresting, which somebody might please explain to me.

Yeah, I really don't get that at all.  I keep reading QC because it entertains me;  if it quits doing so, I'll quit reading it.

But you find a lot of behaviour like that.  There are game forums where you'll find regular posters who don't like the game and constantly criticize it, and you have to wonder why on earth they're even bothering to post there.  I'm not talking about people who like the game and are trying to offer constructive criticism, or people who are just sort of drive-by trolls, but people who post on a regular basis but who don't like or play the game.  I've even asked people like that on occasion, "why are you here?", and I've gotten replies along the lines of, "hey, it's a free country, I have a right to post here".  Well, yeah, but don't you have anything else to do with your time, like, say post on a forum devoted to a game you actually like and play?  I don't get it.

[TinPenguin]

I thought there was an internet-wide unspoken agreement to ignore stupid threads.

[Carl-E]

Some of us are better at it than others. 

[stoutfiles]

The most successful comics are shitty syndicated legacy comics where the characters never develop and there are no plot lines.  Exciting story lines with huge character changes don't always bring in the readers, it seems.

I'm fine with the progression.  It's supposed to mimic real life, isn't it?  Earth-shattering plot lines don't happen everyday in real life.  I do hope some characters develop some in the next few years (Marten!) but whatever happens, happens.  If I tire of QC I can walk away, but its Jephs story and he can tell it how he wants.

[jwhouk]

I would like to point out that the OP has yet to post again. I don't know if that's intentional on his part, or intentional on Mr. Hodges' part.

[pwhodges]

Not on my part - I saw no need to prevent discussion on the original post, at least if the initial tone was maintained.

I cannot prevent posting without calling on an admin other than by locking the thread or by deleting posts after the event.

[TheEvilDog]

QC is eternal

Nooo.... Randy is Eternal

[benji]

I disagree that a story has to be slow to be realistic. Sure, we don't have major events happen every day, but we do have small moments that lead towards greater things. I think the OP has some valuable points buried under all the bullshit: if you look at today's comic, you see a wonderful microcosm of the entire story so far. In facing a smaller issue, Martin is forced to realize that he hasn't grown up entirely because he doesn't know what he wants out of life, and so he decides to get a burger. It would be nice if, before the comic were a decade old, we could make some real headway on that issue.

[Kugai]

QC is eternal

Nooo.... Randy is Eternal

And Randy is on QC - Ergo QC is eternal. 

[Carl-E]

No!  BAD  syllogism!  BAD!   Get down and stop humping the neigbor's leg!

[Nick and Marla]

If you read them, they will come.

...Or something.

[Nick and Marla]

Also, as someone who 100% completes every JRPG he's ever touched (like a faggot), you know nothing of stories that never end!

[dr. nervioso]

I thought there was an internet-wide unspoken agreement to ignore stupid threads.

I tried, but I have a dirty addiction to break down literature to its base components. I'm sorry everyone

[Carl-E]

Apology accepted. 




Now, go forth and sin no more [snicker]

[Stantonhello]

Hello again. I'm well, and I hope everyone is well. I am glad the response was not so ad-hominem as it could have been. Things have been ad-hominem in the past, I tell you, and so this was a pleasant surprise.

I have to vouch for my own sincerity on this topic, first of all.

Second of all, in response to the moderator, who in general has been allowing of me and for which I am thankful- I have to disagree with you that Jeph should not expect criticism of this kind from people who aren't close acquaintances. Keep in mind, I have never understood forums or what the limits of decorum really are. I agree that there can be a difference between a personal appeal to cease and a simple critique of the comic, but they are not mutually exclusive.

I had a remark to make about the necessity of a piece of art/work/narrative. It is something that I have read every day, that I have read more of than Tolstoy. This fact confused some responders, who did not understand why I would complain and then continue to read it- perhaps it was my mistake for not elaborating my position more. I began to notice that I read the comic for no other reason than the simple satisfaction of "checking in" on a group of people. It is very similar to the reason I watched 'The Office' past the prime of its satire- it was regular, and reliable, and typically a kind of loneliness would be abated.

Like any other day, I read the comic and did not understand why I continued to do so. I have mentioned what I perceive to be the strip's current flaws with I think adequate respect given to what I think its authors talents are. In spite of my dedicated reading I know I am not a Customer and that Jeph does not owe me anything, and that I will not get what I want. His comic is indeed successful, but that is not my point. My point is that, as a reader, I find that it has lost its lustre. I would gladly, enthusiastically read his next project, if and when it is launched.

The improbability and immaturity of my post is perhaps what has not endeared many of you to me, and I understand. But I feel entitled to have said what I wanted to say about the comic, even if I was mistaken in saying it here. I can't really justify it further.

I did not know that Jeph did not regularly check the forums, by the way, though I suppose it makes sense that he wouldn't.

[pwhodges]

I have replied by PM, as I do not wish a discussion of an individual's understanding of decorum to break out here.