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Hot Cross Buns

Row, Row, Row Your Boat

Parabola

We Are The Waffles

They won't get that far

[Tova]

-I figured getting with Faye was a real-life goal, and that was guarded flirting and then bitter resentment.  We've seen him motivated but we've never seen him give 100% effort.  I'm not sure we ever will.

-I think he should shoot for a low risk, achievable career goal.  However, it has not been said that Marten is trying to make a career out of this, he might just want another hobby.  Which is fine, for now anyway.

-When he fails, and he will unless multiple characters pull 180's, then he'll be back in the coffee shop that much older having accomplished nothing.  I wonder when characters like Faye and Dora are married off and Marten is still that guy trying to keep the band alive and working at the library.  I don't care if he has a hobby, but I want him to grow up a little as far as his future's concerned. Yes, Jeph is not going to let Marten fail at life, but if Marten was a real-life person his most likely outcome would be failing at life if he continues down this path.  If you had Marten as a real-life friend, you wouldn't be the least bit worried about his future?

He's not going to "fail at life" if he shoots for something he wants and doesn't make it. 

You think he should shoot for a low risk, achievable career goal? You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Personally, I think he should shoot for something that he wants, rather than for something he's not as interested in but more likely to succeed in.

If he fails, then at least he'll know it isn't to be, and he can try something else. If he never tries, then he'll spend the rest of his life wondering "what if?"

If I were his real life friend, I'd be way more worried if he wasn't pursuing the thing he wants, because he's scared he'll fail. I certainly wouldn't be worrying "BUT WHAT IF HE FAILS?"

[kent_eh]

Hey, when did Marten get an SG?
He was playing a tele before

[Akima]

Hey, when did Marten get an SG? He was playing a tele before

Way back when. Poor Marten, he is a tertiary-educated music nerd, and his band-mates... aren't.

[kventin]

re ethnographers' tale: i heard a similar one.

a tribal chief was visiting England. so they took him to a football match (soccer, in former colonies). afterwards he was VERY excited and was telling how much he had been enjoying it.

when he returned home, he told his people they must start this football thing: "it went like this: two tribes and three shamans ran onto a field. chieftains of the tribes came with the head shaman into the centre. the shaman produced a coin. one chieftain pointed at the coin. the shaman tossed the coin into the air, caught it, showed it to the chieftains, AND THEN IT STARTED TO RAIN!"

(i don't really believe it. still it's kind of funny)

[VonKleist]

On a side note, the idea of starting a song with the guitar tuning to a chord while the bass and drums groove is a pretty cool idea. Probably been done many times, but still.

Grateful Dead, St. Stephen, from Skeletons in the Closet.  

At least, it always sounded that way to me!  

Heee, that´s just Jerry playing guitar

Still a brilliant song!

"What would be the answer to the answer then?"
Huh? I don't get it but it sounds great

[kent_eh]

Hey, when did Marten get an SG? He was playing a tele before

Way back when. Poor Marten, he is a tertiary-educated music nerd, and his band-mates... aren't.

Oh, yeah, now I remember.
aaaannnnd... off on another archives expedition...

If no one sees me by Wednesday, send in a search party

[WAYF]

I wonder if some of those things that Marten's playing, aside from "Enter Sandman" obviously, are Marten's and by extension Jeph's own compositions. Some of them look like they'd be really fun to play!

... not that I can play guitar, sadly.

[snubnose]

Uh.

So why is it bad to be in a "Metallica cover band" ?

Not that I would like Metallica much or anything.

[Method of Madness]

Hanners will not sleep with one eye open, nor will she grip her pillow tight, for both are inefficient things to do while sleeping.  As for the sandman, sand is full of germs.

[Welu]

Marten's expressed a couple times his desire to make a living off of music:
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1336
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1340
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1292 <- This is the big one I always think of when Marten's goals discussions comes up.

I think his goal is good. He wants to make a living doing something he enjoys and right now he has a job that gives him enough to get by, have a little bit of money leftover (I'm guessing, since Marten doesn't seem to be struggling) and it leaves him with enough time to work on what he really wants.

Going to college or going to job interviews would involve having to quit or miss work which he (and Faye since she needs help paying rent and bills) can't afford to do. As others have said, if his goal involved needing a higher education then he should try to go for that but since it doesn't, he's pretty much got the ideal set-up.

These two comics haven't shown much enthusiasm working with Amir and Hanners though. Maybe just because they're so excited. Once they're settled it'll hopefully pick up. A plotline looking for another guitarist or singer could be fun. Although they've got this far without a singer, I wonder if it'd even come up.

_{Got a major deja-vu while writing this post. Think I had a future-prediction-dream where I wrote these exact sentences.}

[Border Reiver]

Uh.

So why is it bad to be in a "Metallica cover band" ?

Not that I would like Metallica much or anything.

It just is.  Now if they were doing Howlin' Wolf or Robert Johnson, that would be awesome.

[Mark7]

Hey, when did Marten get an SG?
He was playing a tele before

Either Martin is very tall or that's the first short scale tele I've ever seen.

Between Amir's hygiene issues and Martin's love of Metallica how long before Hanners quits?

[idontunderstand]

Loving the current arc! This happens to me every other rehearsal..

[ZERO]

The members of Metallica have been apart of a Metallica cover band since 1995.

[stoutfiles]

-I figured getting with Faye was a real-life goal, and that was guarded flirting and then bitter resentment.  We've seen him motivated but we've never seen him give 100% effort.  I'm not sure we ever will.

-I think he should shoot for a low risk, achievable career goal.  However, it has not been said that Marten is trying to make a career out of this, he might just want another hobby.  Which is fine, for now anyway.

-When he fails, and he will unless multiple characters pull 180's, then he'll be back in the coffee shop that much older having accomplished nothing.  I wonder when characters like Faye and Dora are married off and Marten is still that guy trying to keep the band alive and working at the library.  I don't care if he has a hobby, but I want him to grow up a little as far as his future's concerned. Yes, Jeph is not going to let Marten fail at life, but if Marten was a real-life person his most likely outcome would be failing at life if he continues down this path.  If you had Marten as a real-life friend, you wouldn't be the least bit worried about his future?

He's not going to "fail at life" if he shoots for something he wants and doesn't make it. 

You think he should shoot for a low risk, achievable career goal? You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Personally, I think he should shoot for something that he wants, rather than for something he's not as interested in but more likely to succeed in.

If he fails, then at least he'll know it isn't to be, and he can try something else. If he never tries, then he'll spend the rest of his life wondering "what if?"

If I were his real life friend, I'd be way more worried if he wasn't pursuing the thing he wants, because he's scared he'll fail. I certainly wouldn't be worrying "BUT WHAT IF HE FAILS?"

Shooting for a goal that requires not just dedication and talent from himself, but from the members of the band, is quite risky.  So far Jeph has shown no signs that the band is anywhere close to being successful, much less good enough to score some low paying bar gigs.  What is the success rate of bands that can go pro and make it a profitable full time position.

Marten isn't getting any younger, and more importantly, he isn't saving any money.  Between expensive city rent, electricity, water, food, and extra expenses, Marten should be completely wiped out of money.  The guy couldnt afford to date if he wanted to, had he and Dora actually done something like a vacation Dora would have had to fit the bill.  This lifestyle works for now but before you know he's 35 and all his friends are married and living elsewhere.  Marten is theb still hopping around jobs near minimum wage just barely getting by.

As I've said before, I don't think Jeph will let Marten fail.  Characters will pull 180s and scenarios will pop up that wouldnt normally.  However, if people are reading this comic and think Marten is making intelligent decisions with his future, then you'd be wrong.  There's a difference between achieving a goal and having a realilistic shot at doing it.

As for school, a small community school or trade school is incredibly low cost, quick, and would give Marten a leg up on a good career that would give him a sturdy financial future.

[sharpreed]

Long time lurker here, but I'm driven to speak at this point. I don't believe that Marten is really unmotivated or lazy. If you look at his character in every comic he has always, always, placed the well being of others ahead of his desires, and passions. I believe the reason we haven't seen Marten actively pursue his goals is because he is in part content with the way things are. Think about how often people love to bitch about any given situation but the moment you ask them what they'd do differently they have no answer. Marten is driven by his needs to help other people, at the expense of himself. Look at his character dynamic with Faye. What he really wanted for the longest time was to be with her. Every character in the QC knew this, but he didn't say anything until she brought it up to him. He says specifically it was because he didn't want to push her into anything, or make things weird. This is because he really cares about her not because he wasn't willing to pursue it. In my mind when Dora and Marten talked about finally doing what he wanted, it was her gently pushing him to be just a little more selfish. To think about what is best for himself instead of worrying over others for a change. Just in my opinion though, obviously. Personally speaking, I wouldn't mind if the music path is how Marten turns out making a living, but I don't want to see him grow big in the QC universe. Perhaps, his stardom or lack thereof could be like Sven's, in that he makes enough to survive but isn't always thronged by the masses...though that would make an interesting internal conflict with how Marten is with the ladies.

The reason Deathmole being a Metallica cover band would be bad in simple. Deathmole being a cover band would be in direct opposition to the indie lifestyle Marten has tried to carve out for himself. Its a complete sellout on everything he stands for, and since Marten's new aim is to do what he wants for a change I don't think that he would allow the band to go that direction. I mean look at the contempt in Marten's face when they finally get to the Enter the Sandman riff, he's all like, really?

[badbum61]

Hey, Marten's guitar isn't plugged in in the first frame.....and then, look! it magically is! 

I'm glad he switched to the SG, though....I'm currently attempting repairs on my '74 Deluxe, which.....uh, fell into a foldback wedge at high velocity mid-show many years ago. Got a '72 Tele as well, but I'll take the SG over it any time!

[jwhouk]

Hey, Marten's guitar isn't plugged in in the first frame.....and then, look! it magically is! 

It's plugged in in the first frame; it's just that Jeph forgot to draw the plug connecting the wire to the guitar. 

[lepetitfromage]

-I think he should shoot for a low risk, achievable career goal.  However, it has not been said that Marten is trying to make a career out of this, he might just want another hobby.  Which is fine, for now anyway.

-When he fails, and he will unless multiple characters pull 180's, then he'll be back in the coffee shop that much older having accomplished nothing.  I wonder when characters like Faye and Dora are married off and Marten is still that guy trying to keep the band alive and working at the library.  I don't care if he has a hobby, but I want him to grow up a little as far as his future's concerned. Yes, Jeph is not going to let Marten fail at life, but if Marten was a real-life person his most likely outcome would be failing at life if he continues down this path.  If you had Marten as a real-life friend, you wouldn't be the least bit worried about his future?

A few things about this post made me think. Would I be worried about Marten's future? Absolutely! Would I try to dissuade him from doing what he wants? Probably not. Most of my art school friends are still moping around directionless but they don't want to give in to the notion of a career goal outside of the arts because they don't want to sell out. I haven't had conversations with them about their goals because they don't regard mine as anything worth doing (unless they are directly related to the arts). Granted, not ALL of my friends are/were like this, but the ones who had similarities to Marten are still floating around, trying to find the meaning in their lives. Remember the beginning of the strip itself? Marten complained that he hated his job, had no idea what he wanted to do, etc. Music and women are the only two things he's quasi-passionate about. Is it sad? Kinda. Are there people like this in the real world? Absolutely.

Some artsy people will suck it up and do what they need to do to move out of their parents' basements, some won't. It's the nature of the field itself- it doesn't pay much (if anything) until you've made a name for yourself. It's hard to make a name for yourself in the arts when you spend 40 hours of your week in an office somewhere (and it's hard to survive working less than 40 hours). Not to mention- if they do "suck it up", they are forced to question the lack of meaning and/or purpose in their lives because they feel that they are not living up to the quality of life they want (this is basically where I fall....). They want to make a living, make art, toouch peoples' lives, change the way the world thinks, change the life of just ONE person for the better.....but they are stuck filing papers, answering phones or crunching numbers. For some people, it's enough to have a job, come home, enjoy life outside of those 40 hours per week and be content. Not for those of us of the creative* persuasion.  





*I always hated this word because so many people use it to describe things they don't understand rather than saying that they don't understand and asking for an explanation. But there aren't enough words to describe artists  


eee.....sorry for the novel. i'll get off the soapbox now....


Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

damnit! I'm posting anyway!!

[Throg]

I was curious to see how Jeph would depict music in an essentially silent medium, especially comparing how skilled / unskilled the musicians are. 

It seems like Marten > Amir/Hannelore >>>> Natasha. 

[themacnut]

Perhaps, his stardom or lack thereof could be like Sven's, in that he makes enough to survive but isn't always thronged by the masses...though that would make an interesting internal conflict with how Marten is with the ladies.

Oh yeah, 'cause if Deathm0le achieves any level of success, even if it's just playing the bar circuit, Marten will definitely have no more trouble attracting the ladies, since women are generally hot for musicians, especially when they see them performing. And from what I've seen  and heard about how women act around their favorite musicians, Marten's ineptitude with women (that he doesn't know well anyway) wouldn't be an issue either-they'd be jumping him the way Dora did.

Speaking of Dora, it'd be interesting to see how she'd react to all that attention. On the one hand, she may want some of that herself, may want her Marty back. On the other hand, all the female attention he'd be getting may remind her too much of the attention Sven gets and she may end up so repulsed by it that she'd want to distance herself from Marten completely. It would be ironic if one of the end results of Marten achieving some success with the band would be him losing touch with yet another ex.

For that matter, depending on how Marten reacted to all the female attention/adulation, Faye may end up not being able to stand him either...

[cesariojpn]

Uh.

So why is it bad to be in a "Metallica cover band" ?

Not that I would like Metallica much or anything.

They went after Napster and pissed off a bunch of fans. For a band that was touted as being "against the grain" (or whatever the terminology was back then) and to do a corporate greed move like that tarnished the name forever. 

Also, Lars Ulrich is a total and huge douchebag during that whole debacle. Didn't help his credibility or his bands reputation when he went around acting like a spoiled brat. 

[DSL]

Some of this talk about Marten and Deathmole's success or lack of any hope thereof reminds me of a former co-worker who, seconds after meeting a girl/woman, had plotted out in his mind the dating, the courtship, the wedding, the married life and difficulties thereof, the falling-out, and the acrimony of the property split during the divorce. Meanwhile, she's thinking, "What's this guy's name again?"
He got over it, met and married and has graduated from law school.
So there's hope.
He even looks sort of like a tall, geeky, even-more-woebegone Marten.

[Shteevie]

The members of Metallica have been apart of a Metallica cover band since 1995.

I don't always quote, but when I do, I Quote For Truth.

Alright, music majors: I know you are out there. Let us know what those other riffs are, so we can get the jokes.

[kent_eh]

I'm glad he switched to the SG, though....I'm currently attempting repairs on my '74 Deluxe, which.....uh, fell into a foldback wedge at high velocity mid-show many years ago. Got a '72 Tele as well, but I'll take the SG over it any time!

The SG is a better fit for the heavy sound that Deathmole is going for anyway.
Not that you can't play heavy sounds on a Tele, just the SG does it more better.

And, you sound like you were going 100% rock-n-roll "many years ago". 
Unless you're clumsy 

[keikun496]

So I'm thinking if Jeph had switched the positions of the quarter and eight note in the second to last panel, it would've been spot on for the opening riff for Enter Sandman.

e q e e e q

? either that or I'm not hearing that correctly.

But it was still fun seeing music in a "silent" form.

[lepetitfromage]

The members of Metallica have been apart of a Metallica cover band since 1995.

I don't always quote, but when I do, I Quote For Truth.

Alright, music majors: I know you are out there. Let us know what those other riffs are, so we can get the jokes.

I second this!

[Is it cold in here?]

Marten still had student loans from his first trip through college, as of strip 37.

[wrwight]

Stoutflies, I realize I'm probably taking your comments more personally than I should, and probably more personally than many others here, so I'm attempting to rebut them only as far as the comic goes (because personally I get the feeling you don't feel like art is a valid profession, which may not be true, but the tone of your comments strongly suggests it). You sound as if Jeph would have to write the characters and plot in a way that would seem inconsistent with their established personalities. So far in the band you have Marten, whose only real passion seems to be music, Amir, who would probably just tag along for the ride, working only as hard as he had to, but be pretty excited about being able to do it, and Hannelore, who loves to challenge herself, and is generally good at whatever she puts her mind to (and an excellent drummer, from the way she talked about it when she started). Then you have close ties with Sven, who plays the local circuit, as well as writing songs for the mainstream. None of the characters in the band so far have any ties that would prevent them from touring, as far as I know.

There will require some character development yes, but I only see that having to come from Marten, and given his age and status, it's about time for him to wake up and put some effort into following his dreams. This would be just what I said though, character development, and we would be left with the same Marten, just more mature and more driven. This isn't inconsistent unless you want the comic to be one of those where the characters never age or develop, like the Simpsons or something. I don't think you're looking for that though, since you suggest school as a "proper" way to develop Marten. This would leave him possibly more financially stable, but would do nothing to improve his quality of life.

I'm in the same place as lepetitfromage right now, being a long-time musician who tried to make it, then life moved me in other directions, and now I'm horribly unsatisfied with my current status, despite unbelievably lucky circumstances. Often it seems that the only time I'm truly satisfied is when I'm writing, rehearsing, and performing my music in my spare time. Once I'm free to do so, I plan to pursue my music career again with full vigor.

I guess I just get upset when I hear/read something that sounds an awful lot like, "Your dream is too hard. Give up on it now and save yourself some time." Apparently this extends to when people say it to fictional characters  

Truly though, I harbor no ill will toward you. I just feel like I have to say my piece. I'll do my best to drop it, or at least minimize it in the future.

[stoutfiles]

Stoutflies, I realize I'm probably taking your comments more personally than I should, and probably more personally than many others here, so I'm attempting to rebut them only as far as the comic goes (because personally I get the feeling you don't feel like art is a valid profession, which may not be true, but the tone of your comments strongly suggests it). You sound as if Jeph would have to write the characters and plot in a way that would seem inconsistent with their established personalities. So far in the band you have Marten, whose only real passion seems to be music, Amir, who would probably just tag along for the ride, working only as hard as he had to, but be pretty excited about being able to do it, and Hannelore, who loves to challenge herself, and is generally good at whatever she puts her mind to (and an excellent drummer, from the way she talked about it when she started). Then you have close ties with Sven, who plays the local circuit, as well as writing songs for the mainstream. None of the characters in the band so far have any ties that would prevent them from touring, as far as I know.

I have nothing against the music profession.  I just don't believe Marten has shown us that he has the drive to follow this through.  Music has never been more than a hobby for him, and one he abandoned for some time.  Marten's real hobby seems to enjoy talking to his friends at the coffee shop and grabbing beers at the bar more than he did playing his guitar, so I'm skeptical that he would magically pull a 180 and focus on music 24/7.  There are plenty of people that do just that and cant break past the low paying bar scene, so to think Marten will be any different is somewhat laughable.  The only difference here is that his all-powerful creator will likely let him succeed.

The other obstacle is the other band members.  Now we're not only gambling on Marten having the drive to be great, we have to expect the rest of the band to have that same drive.  While they both could be good with practice, nothing's telling me that they'd want to practice 24/7.  Sure, this is a fun for a day or two, but months in will they care enough to be great?  Not buying it based on the lack of practicing by either member once the band broke up.

Yes, I know it has a good chance of working out because of Jeph's intervention, hell, most of you are already contemplating how exactly they'll hit it big, how the other characters will respond to Marten's fame, etc.  That's like one of your friends saying they want to be an actor and you're already imagining them on the big screen and wondering if they'll let their fame get to them.  It's silly to even think that far ahead, but we get to because Jeph can do whatever the hell he wants and let Marten succeed.  I, however, would rather the characters make some logical decisions with their lives and not somehow become bigger than people who have truly made music their sole goal in life.  Marten limping into this and succeeding isn't remotely believable, IMO.

[Is it cold in here?]

Marten playing low-paying bar gigs and keeping his day job would be happier, more fulfilled, and more alive than Marten as he is today, or Marten after graduating from trade school.

It wouldn't have to be this band or these bandmates. Marten getting Serious about music could lead to ... new characters!

[Tova]

It's hard to know whether to address your attack on Marten and the others or your attack on Jeph. But since you obviously refuse to believe it is even possible, and have even gone so far as to criticise the beliveability of developments that haven't yet occurred, then I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[wrwight]

Well, I don't think it would be a "magical 180" given that Marten has cited music as his only real ambition, and I don't think Jeph will necessarily make this easy for Marten. I also doubt Marten will become a famous rockstar. There are so many levels of being a professional or semi-professional musician. I wouldn't be surprised if he still worked at the library (or some other fairly stress-free day job) months from now, but also was working on recording, maybe booking a tour, and playing out locally. I think this is going to be a journey, and the end result might surprise us all. Jeph's a pretty good storyteller. I would be disappointed if he suddenly decided to rely on being the "all-powerful author" to make this work. That doesn't really seem to be his style.

Now, the lack of practice: I think the only one we might have to question there is Hannelore. Marten is a guitar fanatic. Knowing dozens of people with similar obsessions, it's highly unlikely he would just put the guitar down when the band broke up. The fact that he's using a different guitar could even be used as evidence that he still does play guitar (you don't spend the kind of money he would have on that guitar to just let it sit and collect dust). Just 'cause it doesn't show up "on camera" doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As for Amir, well, he's been living in a practice space, and you think he hasn't been playing? What else is he going to do? Hannelore, well, your guess is as good as mine. I don't see any evidence either way.

Finally, hard work and success are only very loosely linked in the music industry. This idea seems to hold in the QCverse, where Sven knocks out a song over breakfast every few months and that's enough to keep him living comfortably. I could get into my rather extensive real world evidence on that in detail, but I always thought that was common knowledge.

[stoutfiles]

It's hard to know whether to address your attack on Marten and the others or your attack on Jeph. But since you obviously refuse to believe it is even possible, and have even gone so far as to criticise the beliveability of developments that haven't yet occurred, then I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm not attacking Jeph...I'm just proving a point.  Marten has a much better chance of succeeding because he is the main character in a comic.  If we translated Marten's situation to the real world and he was a person that you knew, the last thing you would be wondering is how his friends will take it when he's famous.  As a friend you would root for him, but deep down be very skeptical that anything other than a bar gig would happen.  I only challenge Jeph to make this current story arc be plausible by having Marten really work at this for an extended period of time.

[Akima]

I'm not attacking Jeph...I'm just proving arguing a point.

Fixed your post. Proof is not on offer here.

[pwhodges]

Remember that we actually see only glimpses of the characters in this comic.  They do add up, but there is plenty of scope for aspects of their characters that we haven't really seen to be developed - without it having to involve reversals of their present characters.  And very few people get famous - that's a really, really bad measure of success in life.

[Carl-E]

I'm not attacking Jeph...I'm just proving arguing a point.

Fixed your post. Proof is not on offer here.

Amen, sister.  Proof is reserved for the sciences, and not the social ones.  

Actually, Proof is reserved for mathematics.  The other sciences like to borrow the idea, but can't really carry it off.  


About Marten; remember, he had an epiphany - "What do you really  want?".  And this was his answer.  I think that could give someone a great deal of drive - maybe not enough for a 180, but success in music comes in many forms, especially nowadays.  I think in particular of Pomplamoose, a lovely couple who put their music out online through Youtube, and after a while signed a gig with a car company (you've probably seen the commercials if you're in the US).  

Or my wife's cousin, Sheldon.  He has a studio in Boston, does most of the music for WGBH's in-house productions.  Very talented musician and composer, and every time one of those PBS documentaries is sold to a library or school, he gets a cut...

Of course, it doesn't hurt that he's married to one of the station's producers, but that happened after  he got the gig.  

Edited for spelling of band name and adding links

[idontunderstand]

One thing that completely speaks against you, stoutflies, is that you have never, and will never, hear Marten play. Without that piece of information you don't know how far he could go.

(I know there are deathmole tracks out there, but I don't think we're supposed to take them as literally being played by Marten and the guys, they are Jeph's songs, nothing else)

[Tova]

I only challenge Jeph to make this current story arc be plausible by having Marten really work at this for an extended period of time.

That's fair enough. Although we still don't know what Marten's goals actually are, of course. I suspect that one of our several differences here is that our definitions of "success" differ. There's a difference between "success" and "fame" (unless your goal is fame, and I'll stick my neck out and say that Marten's goal isn't fame).

[SirDudley]

Oh Metallica jokes. Will they ever get stale?

Anyhew, how does Amir NOT know the intro to "Enter Sandman"? Did becoming broke mean his music knowledge was pawned off to feed him?

[Tova]

Actually, I've just been reminded of an F Chords story arc:

http://fchords.com/2008/08/25/a-dire-riff/

[stoutfiles]

Remember that we actually see only glimpses of the characters in this comic.  They do add up, but there is plenty of scope for aspects of their characters that we haven't really seen to be developed - without it having to involve reversals of their present characters.  And very few people get famous - that's a really, really bad measure of success in life.

My goal of success is that Marten makes enough money to not barely get by.  I'd like him to be able to afford to retire, start a family, etc.  Right now he's living in a world where robots could and should be doing his library job.  In other words, he's completely replaceable.

One thing that completely speaks against you, stoutflies, is that you have never, and will never, hear Marten play. Without that piece of information you don't know how far he could go.

(I know there are deathmole tracks out there, but I don't think we're supposed to take them as literally being played by Marten and the guys, they are Jeph's songs, nothing else)

Unless he's a musical prodigy, I think he'd be spending more of his time playing and getting better.  He wasn't doing that as far as I know.  However, that's not the roadblock, it's the rest of the band, and we do know how well they can play.  Whether they decide to get as good as Marten, if that's even good enough, remains to be seen.  With the information we have it's skeptical that they would succeed, and by succeed I refer to making money for their efforts.

[Tova]

I'd like him to be able to afford to retire, start a family, etc.

I don't like to state the obvious, but this shouldn't be about what you'd like.

With the information we have it's skeptical that they would succeed, and by succeed I refer to making money for their efforts.

Skeptical, sure. Impossible, no.

[stoutfiles]

I'd like him to be able to afford to retire, start a family, etc.

I don't like to state the obvious, but this shouldn't be about what you'd like.

With the information we have it's skeptical that they would succeed, and by succeed I refer to making money for their efforts.

Skeptical, sure. Impossible, no.

Do you think Marten wants to have to work his whole life and never retire?  Do you think he wants to be so poor he can't afford to go anywhere with a girl?  If his guitar broke, could he even afford a new one?  That he'd likely have to move out if he got fired from his library job?  If Marten didn't care about money then great, but he's shown no signs that he wouldn't like to be better off.

[Tova]

If Marten didn't care about money then great, but he's shown no signs that he wouldn't like to be better off.

To steal your words, with the information we have, he doesn't care about money.

He does care about having a crappy job he doesn't enjoy.

[dragontart]

I think he's also shown no signs that he wouldn't like to be one-legged lion tamer, for that matter. That would be kind of impressing.

[Is it cold in here?]

We know Hanners is "hella good", at least in Amir's opinion, and I seem to remember Marten being impressed.

[stoutfiles]

If Marten didn't care about money then great, but he's shown no signs that he wouldn't like to be better off.

To steal your words, with the information we have, he doesn't care about money.

He does care about having a crappy job he doesn't enjoy.

If he made a million dollars a year, he'd be singing a different tune.  The job is crappy because it doesn't pay well.

I've made my point, and we agree to disagree.  I had hoped Marten would follow a safer path based on what I've seen from him.  I guess we'll just see how it all plays out. 

[Schmorgluck]

I don't remember Marten calling his current job "crappy". I'd be surprized if he did, considering his previous job denomination.

[Kugai]

Enter Sandman indeed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE7GTc8p-1A