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Poll

What was... THE MOMENT OF THE WEEK?

Momo likes the new chassis!
- 3 (4.8%)
Momo hugs!
- 3 (4.8%)
Perhaps you should buy a humidifier too.
- 1 (1.6%)
Do you not recognize me, Pintsize? It's me. Momo.
- 5 (7.9%)
Momo Robo Beatdown! (Hurf Durf)
- 2 (3.2%)
I'll give her five more minutes...
- 1 (1.6%)
It was nice of Hannelore to give some of her old clothes.
- 2 (3.2%)
I can cook for you!
- 0 (0%)
I can also reach your head to smack you upside it...
- 4 (6.3%)
I really do love you, Marigold. "I love you too."
- 6 (9.5%)
You're gonna make Angus cry.
- 3 (4.8%)
THERE WAS A CAT ON THE STAIRS AND I'M ALLERGIC.
- 13 (20.6%)
No offense, but it's hard to sleep with you sitting there staring...
- 1 (1.6%)
Spooning Momo!
- 16 (25.4%)
But I am too big to fit on the dresser anymore!
- 3 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 57


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Author Topic: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)  (Read 78224 times)

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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #550 on: 03 Sep 2011, 07:41 »

It had been years since I had seen that TNG episode. I pretty much lost it when
(click to show/hide)
From there to the end I was pretty much done for. Such a great episode.
(not sure if that counts as a spoiler, but better to be on the safe side I guess)
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #551 on: 03 Sep 2011, 12:26 »

Wait, spoilers for one of the most famous* episodes of a fifteen year-old TV show?
Dang.

'Round here we don't even spoiler last week's Dr Who.


*The most famous being, of course, the finale and the Borg two-parter. Followed by every episode with John de Lancie in it. Yes this means some episodes are (rightly) listed twice. Shut up.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #552 on: 03 Sep 2011, 12:59 »

It may have been for the benefit of those poor individuals who have not seen ST:TNG and are planning to.

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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #553 on: 03 Sep 2011, 14:00 »

Meh. For me it was "The Inner Light" and everything else.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #554 on: 03 Sep 2011, 14:08 »

Meh. For me it was "The Inner Light" and everything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=606Vk2iSFNk

Crying like a little bitch is permitted, and indeed, encouraged.

Although I must admit, I regard DS9 as the superiour series (post season 2 DS9 that is), TNG had many amazing episodes, but I'm more into arc-based story-telling. I still like TNG a great deal though. Voyager had a few good episodes (these two among them) but was far too inconsistent with its own bullshit and characterization. ENT with the possible exception of parts of season 3 and 4 was a pile o' shit in my opinion, and since I'm a TNG era fanboy the 2009 reboot does not exist to me.
« Last Edit: 03 Sep 2011, 14:12 by Skaltura »
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #555 on: 03 Sep 2011, 14:23 »

Original Series all the way for me, baby (even some of the infamous Third Season), right down to the cardboard sets and cocktail-waitress uniforms for a third of the crew. TNG was OK. The Original Series crossovers, especially Tribble-ations, would not have worked with any of the spinoffs, I think, because DS9 was closest in spirit to the original Trek ... adventure with a sense of when it was time to put tongue in cheek. (Cripes, Picard would have tried to call in the SPCA to find adoptive homes for each of the 1,771,561 tribbles on Station K-7).
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Mr_Rose

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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #556 on: 03 Sep 2011, 14:53 »

No he wouldn't.
Well, Farpoint Picard might have.
Best of Both Worlds Picard would have fixed his goddamn sensors in record time and beamed the infiltrator off the station without ever leaving his seat.
All Good Things... Picard would have done exactly what Sisko did, except he would have got Spock's autograph at the end then swung by Romulus on the way home to ask that Spock why he never mentioned the incident the last three times they met.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #557 on: 03 Sep 2011, 15:17 »

Meh. For me it was "The Inner Light" and everything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=606Vk2iSFNk

Crying like a little bitch is permitted, and indeed, encouraged.

THERE WAS A CAT ON THE STAIRS AND I'M ALLERGIC.

I did like the reboot, though. Considering Trek's remarkably loose canon, I can live with yet another alternate universe. Maybe it's the QCverse's 23rd Century.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #558 on: 03 Sep 2011, 15:17 »

It may have been for the benefit of those poor individuals who have not seen ST:TNG and are planning to.


I'm just watching this stuff for the first time right now, but I also don't really get worked up about spoilers if it's beyond a certain age or degree of fame.

Penny Arcade did a strip on the topic once.

Basically that time my brother spoiled that second last Harry Potter book the day after it came out was a kick in the pants. If someone exposes me to vital plot information for The Lord of the Rings though I'm hardly gonna be offended.

Now that we're talking about it though, if I might ask a question of those who understand these things. "The Measure of a Man" left me a little confused about Starfleet.

Am I to understand that they are both the lawmakers and the law enforcers?
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #559 on: 03 Sep 2011, 15:29 »

Now that we're talking about it though, if I might ask a question of those who understand these things. "The Measure of a Man" left me a little confused about Starfleet.

Am I to understand that they are both the lawmakers and the law enforcers?
Only within Starfleet itself. That is, they have something roughly equivalent to the UCMJ wherein legal issues regarding fleet personnel and property are handled by senior fleet personnel.
There is apparently some manner of parity recognition and/or jurisprudence within the greater Federation such that Starfleet and the civilian authorities can establish precedent in each others courts though.
(In the Voyager episode Author, Author!, which deals with a similar situation, you see a civilian authority presiding over a case involving civilians)
« Last Edit: 03 Sep 2011, 15:31 by Mr_Rose »
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #560 on: 03 Sep 2011, 15:47 »

Ah, that makes sense. So basically they're like any other organization that chooses to self-regulate.

Looking at a group of intergalactic peacekeepers, see them come to a ruling regarding whether someone gets equal rights or not. I'm just looking thinking "Damn. This is just asking for corruption. There's a group who'll eventually have to be overthrown if I've ever seen one."

In that case I hope things work out as well for Data when the same question gets asked by the United Federation of Planets.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #561 on: 03 Sep 2011, 16:28 »

Heh. All this fictional legalism reminds me of an essay, by a professed Star Wars fan, that claimed the Federation was a fascist dictatorship based on the fact that there are almost no civilian starships.
I wonder if he ever figured out that by the same metric so is the USA, since almost no individuals own their own jumbo jets. Or aircraft carriers.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #562 on: 03 Sep 2011, 16:29 »

It's also important to note that the Starfleet you see in "The Measure Of A Man" has not gone through their version of 9/11 (the Battle of Wolf 359 seen in the episode "The Best of Both Worlds" in TNG and "The Emissary" in DS9).

Post 359 Starfleet is considerably, well, murkier and far less idealistic.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #563 on: 03 Sep 2011, 16:43 »

Woo. Going from I, Robot to a discussion of the ST universe.

Personally, of course, I have a soft spot for TOS. I mean, come ON; I was born minutes after "Mirror, Mirror" aired. TNG is pretty good, if it only filled out things that TOS never got to deal with.

I never really got into DS9, if only because it was mostly concurrent with TNG, and it was a bit too much like Gunsmoke to TNG's Wagon Train.

Voyager was just a bit too way out there. And adding Seven of Nine was just an attempt to pander to HNG's.

I am one of those weirdos, though, who thought Enterprise had a LOT of potential - which they flushed down the toilet with the whole "destroy a chunk of the earth" thing.



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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #564 on: 03 Sep 2011, 17:08 »

Heh. All this fictional legalism reminds me of an essay, by a professed Star Wars fan, that claimed the Federation was a fascist dictatorship based on the fact that there are almost no civilian starships.

And THAT statement reminds me of Starship Troopers! :D

Also in a somewhat off-topic comment, DS9 was what it was in part due to Babylon 5, which in my mind a superior program. Ethics played a good part in a lot of that show as well, where aliens and human telepaths are concerned.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #565 on: 03 Sep 2011, 17:15 »

Voyager and Enterprise both had oodles of potential but no real inspiration or control.

Voyager by its very premise really had to be plot-driven and not episodic yet you have the ship wrecked to hell and gone one week then sailing into view like it just left the docks the next week. That plus the random characterisation (is Janeway a psychopath this week or not, find out after the break!) really destroyed it. Also, adding Seven of Nine was not actually pandering. Casting Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine then making her wear skin-tight lycra for the rest of the series was pandering. Subtle, no?

Enterprise had exactly the opposite problem, really; after all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Voyager, they went for a more linear style with much better continuity but forgot to have adventures while they were doing it. Any comments RE Seven apply just as much to T'Pol, too. I almost wish they'd gone even further back, to the first diaspora, and followed Cochrane and pals out into the wilds of space rather than have an anaemic Starfleet begging permission for everything from the Vulcans.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #566 on: 03 Sep 2011, 17:20 »

Woo. Going from I, Robot to a discussion of the ST universe.

Personally, of course, I have a soft spot for TOS. I mean, come ON; I was born minutes after "Mirror, Mirror" aired. TNG is pretty good, if it only filled out things that TOS never got to deal with.

I never really got into DS9, if only because it was mostly concurrent with TNG, and it was a bit too much like Gunsmoke to TNG's Wagon Train.

Voyager was just a bit too way out there. And adding Seven of Nine was just an attempt to pander to HNG's.

I am one of those weirdos, though, who thought Enterprise had a LOT of potential - which they flushed down the toilet with the whole "destroy a chunk of the earth" thing.





I think age is a contributing factor if you measure TNG or TOS fandom (outliers exist), you like TOS because you grew up with it, I like TNG because I grew up with that, but it does not mean I hate TOS, as with VOY there are a lot of episodes that I like, but even then I must admit the cheese and ham (and well, the rampant sexism among other things) gets a bit much for my taste sometimes. I always liken TOS to a series of morality plays on 60's issues, probably cutting edge at the time but it came with a price. If you allow me to throw another nerd concept into the mix, it lacks what Tolkien called "applicability" in the foreword to LotR.

Funnily enough though, I like the TOS movies better than the TNG movies; my personal ranking goes II > VI > VIII > IV > I > III > X, the other three, let us not speak of them.

I'm also a fan of B5, new BSG, Stargate and Farscape, I'm probably one of the biggest SciFi (space SciFi that is) nerds you will find, although I hate the inter-universe rivalry the respective fandoms are so quick to drum up.

As with ENT, yes it had potential, but my god did the writing suck.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #567 on: 03 Sep 2011, 17:20 »

Casting Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine then making her wear skin-tight lycra for the rest of the series was pandering. Subtle, no?

Female Borg wear high heels. It was in the dossier. Did you not know that? ;)

... oh wait, just her? Drat.

(Still, I know *I* didn't complain the first time I saw her...)
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #568 on: 03 Sep 2011, 17:49 »

Heh. All this fictional legalism reminds me of an essay, by a professed Star Wars fan, that claimed the Federation was a fascist dictatorship based on the fact that there are almost no civilian starships.
I wonder if he ever figured out that by the same metric so is the USA, since almost no individuals own their own jumbo jets. Or aircraft carriers.
Dear God. I don't even have to know anything about Star Trek for that to make my head hurt. Fascist Dictatorship? Neither of those words mean anything even remotely applicable to what he's talking about.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #569 on: 03 Sep 2011, 19:32 »

I'm of the age that TOS was still on when I was growing up, although I was more aware of them as re-runs (thanks, DesiLu!).  I was in grad school when TNG started, but the episodes I caught were fun, well done, and true to the original spirit, so I guess I was a fan.  DS9 was also in grad school (later), and some cable channel ran the series in reruns late at night - I got hooked.  I really   enjoyed the interspecies(?) politics in that show. 

Voyager came along when I had kids old enough to watch with, but I was usually too busy to really follow it.  I liked the chracter parts - mainly Neelix and the doctor - but never watched enough to realize the serious shortcomings most people talk about.  And I never saw an episode of Enterprise.  It pretty much coincided with a period of extreme turmoil in my life, so... yeah. 

I don't watch much TV anymore anyway. 
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #570 on: 03 Sep 2011, 19:46 »

Star Trek: TOS on Blu-Ray.

Really all you need to know.  :lol:

(p.s. DS9 is GREAT, it's good to know there are others who agree.)
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #571 on: 03 Sep 2011, 20:19 »

I am completely ok with the absolute derailment of this thread.

I have to agree with Skaltura about TOS. I grew up with TNG, and part of what made me love it is probably that it was one of the only shows my dad made a point to sit down and watch every week. If he couldn't make it to watch it when it came on, we'd have the VCR set up for it, so it holds good memories of the family together watching. But in addition to that I feel like that was a great series filled with fantastic characters. DS9 never really got me hooked. I'm not really sure why. I would watch if it was on, but I haven't ever gone out of my way to watch it all, so I might do that sometime and change my mind.

I did enjoy Voyager, but primarily for the same reasons Carl-E cited, The Doctor and Neelix. In fact, I think the characters who explored humanity were my favorite throughout every ST series: Spock, Data, The Doctor, and (from the very little I remember of DS9) Odo, among others. I wouldn't be surprised if I misinterpreted Odo though, again given my lack of familiarity with the series.

I caught episodes here and there of Enterprise, but everything about that show seemed forced to me, like they were trying to appeal to a completely different crowd while still hanging onto enough ST resemblance to keep the name. To me, Enterprise was the Super Mario World 2 of the ST universe I guess.

I did absolutely love the reboot ST movie though. I thought it was true enough to the original spirit, but relatable to me, unlike much of TOS.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #572 on: 03 Sep 2011, 20:47 »

Casting Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine then making her wear skin-tight lycra for the rest of the series was pandering. Subtle, no?

Female Borg wear high heels. It was in the dossier. Did you not know that? ;)

... oh wait, just her? Drat.

(Still, I know *I* didn't complain the first time I saw her...)

You can lay the blame for those Biosuits straight at the feet of our ever lovin' EMH, who had a crush on Seven from day one. (But can you blame him?)

Section 31 nes pas Skaltura?
« Last Edit: 03 Sep 2011, 20:49 by Kugai »
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #573 on: 03 Sep 2011, 21:27 »

I'm pretty sure the Borg queen had some serious heels going on too.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #574 on: 03 Sep 2011, 22:44 »

Can we all agree the TNG movies were some of the worst movies ever created?
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #575 on: 03 Sep 2011, 22:51 »

Somebody needs to go watch First Contact again.

Insurrection wasn't bad either, was basically episode-quality at film length.

I did absolutely love the reboot ST movie though. I thought it was true enough to the original spirit
Absolutely agreed. Clearly I need to stop hanging around full-on Star Trek fans, cause those jerks don't like ANYTHING. :p
« Last Edit: 03 Sep 2011, 22:55 by Wagimawr »
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #576 on: 03 Sep 2011, 23:53 »

I don't know about worst movies ever created. I generally enjoyed them, but I will say while I loved TNG the series, and didn't get a lot of TOS the series (that seems a bit redundant, and at the same time a little repetitive), the first 6 movies were pretty tough to follow, and TNG movies didn't really hold up as well. Then again not all of the first 6 were that great either, they just average out pretty well.

You know, it's been a while, maybe I should just have a Star Trek movie marathon. That sounds like a good way to avoid socialization for a day or two.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #577 on: 04 Sep 2011, 00:34 »

Somebody needs to go watch First Contact again.

Insurrection wasn't bad either, was basically episode-quality at film length.

I did absolutely love the reboot ST movie though. I thought it was true enough to the original spirit
Absolutely agreed. Clearly I need to stop hanging around full-on Star Trek fans, cause those jerks don't like ANYTHING. :p

Eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh, First Contact started really well. Then they went back in time, and I wondered why I was watching it.

Insurrection didn't do anything for me, but Nemesis was full of enough space-eye-candy for me to watch it (though believe me, I rolled my eyes plenty of times during that one, too). The reboot? Yeah, that was pretty cool, and I look forward to the next instalment.

P.S. YMMV, as this is also coming from someone who actually thought Star Trek V was worth watching, if only for the novelty of the idea. Own it? HAH, yeah, I won't go that far.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #578 on: 04 Sep 2011, 02:50 »

[...]

I'm gonna have to check out some of the other stuff. There were some very cool characters there. I know it's not entirely on topic but that was just a great watch.

If you're interested in examining issues around AI I have three book recommendations (all fiction):

Society of the Mind by Eric L Harry: A Bill Gates like figure is having problems with his main computer.  It's so advanced he calls in a psychologist to help troubleshoot it.

Feet of Clay by Terry Pratchett: Commander Vimes has 2 murders and 1 attempted murder to solve.  Is there a link?  And why are golems behaving oddly?

The Wind from the Sun by Arthur C Clark: A collection of short stories -- each with a sting in the tale.  At least two of the stories (of the ones I remember) cover AI.


In films there's:

2001: A Space Odyssey and the sequel: 2010.

Bicenntennial Man is worth a look.

War Games -- I found it scarier than Terminator because there is no malice.

D.A.R.Y.L. : A strange young boy is found wandering alone.


Series:

You may want to look up the series Time of Eve.
« Last Edit: 04 Sep 2011, 03:19 by HiFranc »
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #579 on: 04 Sep 2011, 05:42 »

Can we all agree the TNG movies were some of the worst movies ever created?

YES.

As far as I'm concerned, the entire Star Trek oeuvre is the worst sci-fi ever created.  Not the concept, but the execution.  A batting average of about two good episodes per season, with the rest being wretched, cheesy hogwash, is pretty bad.  Why does the monotone exposition and leaden dialogue appeal? 

With the possible exceptions of Wrath of Khan, and Undiscovered Country.  See?  Still the same average of two out of twelve.  (And some of DS9 went into Babylon 5 territory, but as far as I'm concerned that's all the vision of Ron Moore. 

</rant>
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #580 on: 04 Sep 2011, 06:49 »

As far as I'm concerned, the entire Star Trek oeuvre is the worst sci-fi ever created.  Not the concept, but the execution.  A batting average of about two good episodes per season, with the rest being wretched, cheesy hogwash, is pretty bad.  Why does the monotone exposition and leaden dialogue appeal? 

Unfortunately, for a lot of us it was our first introduction into Science Fiction.  Like any first love, it holds a special place in our hearts, no matter how  bad it was!

The first (several) TOS movies were geared towards the people who had grown up before TNG/DS9.  The everpresent reruns of truly  cheesy TOS episodes introduced more than an entire generation to SF.  Then parents had their kids watch the new series (TNG) when it came out, and it was suddenly a multi-generational phenomenon. 

Doesn't matter how bad it was/is.  It was good enough often enough to stimulate positive interest, and that's all it took. 
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #581 on: 04 Sep 2011, 07:31 »

Somebody needs to go watch First Contact again.

Insurrection wasn't bad either, was basically episode-quality at film length.

I did absolutely love the reboot ST movie though. I thought it was true enough to the original spirit
Absolutely agreed. Clearly I need to stop hanging around full-on Star Trek fans, cause those jerks don't like ANYTHING. :p

First Contact Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Lr8cdZwHQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL3AC40C1921B7EA82

Insurrection Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlV3bsafkq0

Star Trek fan or not, watch these reviews.  They are hilarious.  They also point out the flaws of the movies coming from a huge Star Trek fan.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #582 on: 04 Sep 2011, 16:24 »

Babylon 5!!!!!! <33333

*cough* sorry, saw the words, had to respond :'D

But I am definitely a fan of TNG...honestly it was the only ST series I could really get into, although that probably had more to do with the fact it was on during my formative years. Plus one of my childhood icons was on the show and that was just awesome/hilarious. (I didn't start watching it til about 1992 though or so, but I guess it was in syndicated re-runs by then cos I remember watching from season 1? Anyway anyway~)

 Farscape is my absolute favorite Sci-Fi show ever tho.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #583 on: 04 Sep 2011, 18:14 »

Valen go with you rje
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #584 on: 05 Sep 2011, 18:38 »

As far as I'm concerned, the entire Star Trek oeuvre is the worst sci-fi ever created.  Not the concept, but the execution.  A batting average of about two good episodes per season, with the rest being wretched, cheesy hogwash, is pretty bad.  Why does the monotone exposition and leaden dialogue appeal? 

Unfortunately, for a lot of us it was our first introduction into Science Fiction.  Like any first love, it holds a special place in our hearts, no matter how  bad it was!


That made me realize: as a onetime Doctor Who fan, the whole 'glass houses/throwing stones' applies.   :oops:
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #585 on: 06 Sep 2011, 03:09 »

As far as I'm concerned, the entire Star Trek oeuvre is the worst sci-fi ever created.
You must have lived a very sheltered life. Of course there is just so much Star Trek material that Sturgeon's Law applies, but there is way worse SF out there. Some of the Star Trek movies are not that great, but then there is Battlefield Earth...

And personally I give Star Trek props for putting Asian actors in the main cast, or at least regularly giving them lines since 1966, something that a certain more modern (and stratospherically overrated) science-fiction franchise signally failed to do. There is more than one way to suck.
« Last Edit: 06 Sep 2011, 03:15 by Akima »
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #586 on: 06 Sep 2011, 05:54 »

And it wasn't just that he was an Asian actor, he turned out to be an Asian Gay actor!
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #587 on: 06 Sep 2011, 10:56 »

You must have lived a very sheltered life. Of course there is just so much Star Trek material that Sturgeon's Law applies, but there is way worse SF out there. Some of the Star Trek movies are not that great, but then there is Battlefield Earth...


*splutter*

Sturgeon's Law aside, it's just that I've suffered a sci-fi social scene where ST was the end-all-be-all.  I appreciate Gene Roddenberry's vision (daring enough in the 60's / early 70's) of a pan-racial starship, but, well, I just can't stand the dialogue.  A lot of British sci-fi -- Blake's Seven, the horror-inflected Tom Baker years, the season arc of the Key to Time, it just seeemed so much better done, even if the cardboard-and-fishing-line sfx were much, much worse.  And I loved Babylon 5 for being a hardcore space opera, as the latter half of DS9 turned out to be.

*You* try getting along in a social group with a dude trying to work Klingon into regular conversation.  Or quoting Sarek in a fight with his gf.  

« Last Edit: 06 Sep 2011, 13:19 by Throg »
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #588 on: 06 Sep 2011, 14:53 »

Ah, so the problem isn't Star Trek, but rather the social group...


Try getting out more? 
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #589 on: 06 Sep 2011, 15:46 »

And personally I give Star Trek props for putting Asian actors in the main cast, or at least regularly giving them lines since 1966, something that a certain more modern (and stratospherically overrated) science-fiction franchise signally failed to do. There is more than one way to suck.
Perhaps I'm misreading this, but Firefly sucks and is overrated...because there are no Asians in the main cast?  Am I missing how that's at all relevant to anything?
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #590 on: 06 Sep 2011, 15:52 »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can easily see how it would be offensive that a universe where Chinese appears to be nearly as common as English (language, culture, clothing) there are no Chinese cast members, not even as minor characters. Personally I thoroughly enjoyed Firefly, and still watch it occasionally, but I can see how that could be offensive. It's certainly something that doesn't go unnoticed, even by a fan of the show. I still choose to love it because of other aspects, but I have to say it does take away from it.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #591 on: 06 Sep 2011, 16:28 »

What happens if Momo starts making more than Marigold? :O
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #592 on: 06 Sep 2011, 16:40 »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can easily see how it would be offensive that a universe where Chinese appears to be nearly as common as English (language, culture, clothing) there are no Chinese cast members, not even as minor characters. Personally I thoroughly enjoyed Firefly, and still watch it occasionally, but I can see how that could be offensive. It's certainly something that doesn't go unnoticed, even by a fan of the show. I still choose to love it because of other aspects, but I have to say it does take away from it.

I just assumed that, much like today, the mentality and culture of people can be very divisive. Do we really know that much about Firefly's universe beyond the shady bits that were explored in the very FEW episodes that exist?
As per Firefly sucking for any particular reason at all, I'm happy to disagree. I was thoroughly entertained.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #593 on: 06 Sep 2011, 17:13 »

What happens if Momo starts making more than Marigold? :O

Marigold gets some use out of her expensive friend?  Momo is a robot who can work 24/7 efficiently, she should be making more than Marigold.
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #594 on: 06 Sep 2011, 18:35 »

Ah, so the problem isn't Star Trek, but rather the social group...

Try getting out more? 

It was 16 years ago, but the distaste lingers. 

Oh god I'm old
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Re: WCDT: 2001-2005 (29 Aug-2 Sept 2011)
« Reply #595 on: 06 Sep 2011, 18:46 »

DS9's the only one I've watched all the way through, I've only seen a couple tOS and tNG episodes each, and absolutely no Voyager or Enterprise.  Moviewise I've seen none of the original six, First Contact and Nemesis, in addition to the reboot, of course.  I loved DS9, but I should point out that I watched it in its entirety in early 2009.  I was never into Star Trek growing up (and I still prefer Star Wars, although I merely enjoy it a lot rather than defend it to the death).

Also, I know nothing of Babylon Five, but it seems I'll like it because I liked DS9, so I'll check it out.
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