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Marten and I are going to go get a beer.

2 (3.1%)

W-we are? "We are."

5 (7.7%)

Tell Faye I loved her!

12 (18.5%)

I mean, not in a romantic way... YANK!

8 (12.3%)

So, uh, is this about Padma? "Yes."

0 (0%)

"I'm sorry, Elliot, but Weeping Hour is only on Thursdays."

3 (4.6%)

You've been into her all this time and never said anything?

0 (0%)

Been here for three years. Boss offered her a promotion if she stayed.

0 (0%)

...Are you taking NOTES?

8 (12.3%)

My life has been entirely devoid of pathos! This is primo material!

4 (6.2%)

I thought you were gonna kick my @$$.

0 (0%)

Big, unrealistic fantasy.

0 (0%)

DEFINITELY not gonna happen if you don't tell her.

0 (0%)

You think I have a chance?

0 (0%)

Faye gets informed about the hike

0 (0%)

I'm pretty sure he could take you in a fight.

1 (1.5%)

She's moving back to LA in a few weeks.

0 (0%)

You did it before, you better not do it again.

3 (4.6%)

Actually, I never would have met all you guys if I hadn't...

5 (7.7%)

Stop it you are frightening me

14 (21.5%)

Total Members Voted: 60

[jwhouk]

Methinks Marten is afraid that an honest answer to the question would result in said KYA.

[HiFranc]

[...]

Why would anyone give up a stable job with good income (not to mention options to advance) and a healthy circle of friends indefinitely just for family and taking care of grandma? This smells fishy and I sense there is more to it than has been let on.

From what I've seen in real life "taking care of grandma" is a nice way of saying "my grandmother is on her deathbed", "my grandmother is so ill that the other members of my family need another pair of hands otherwise they're not going to be able to physically look after her", etc.  It's possible that her grandmother has suddenly/only recently recently been diagnosed but it's more likely that she's been discussing this with her family for weeks.

Family is the number one priority for many people.

Quite so. Some of us would feel profoundly shamed if we didn't look after Granny within the family for any but the most serious medical reasons.

I don't quite think this applies in Padma's case as, if she did feel that way, she probably would have studied/got a job closer to home.  I, therefore, think it is something serious.

Also, it's the first time we've heard her talk about her family.  That fact that the move has come as a surprise to Elliott and Sam shows that she doesn't talk about her family off camera that much (or her plans).

[jwhouk]

...unless, of course, she's using that as a ruse.

EDIT: And what's odd is, I don't think that's a trope.

[idontunderstand]

Poor Elliot. They want you or they don't.

[VonKleist]

If I were Elliot I´d probably tell her just to break the suspense. 

[Border Reiver]

Whereas I'm sure the place she's going to also has stable jobs with good income and new potential circles of friends.

The Porn industry isn't exactly booming right now.......

Nonsense!  There's always room for one more.

[raoullefere]

Poor Elliot. They want you or they don't.

Or they want you but don't want you to know that because they think it's complicated and all will end in misery. Or they don't know how much they really do want you until someone else has you, and then it's Too Late until you get dumped, at which time they're in another relationship. Which, if they've since let it drop that they did want you at some point, they now are bent on demonstrating how much better this new hook-up is than yours and theirs could ever have been.

There are many, many variations, but these come immediately to mind for some dang reason. Love lives are rarely simple except for people like Pre-Faye Swen.

[stoutfiles]

In the real world, it is pretty obvious within the first 6 months whether you have a chance or not.  All Elliot had to do was flirt some, invite her to things, etc.  If she wasn't flirting back and coming up with excuses to not hangout with just him, then she's not interested.  Girls will rarely say they're not interested, they'll just do what they consider to be nice and avoid the issue.  He never had to directly confront her (big turnoff, girls like to play "the game"), all he had to do is indirectly check to see if she's interested.

Elliot should have moved on a long time ago...this plot is something that would happen in high school.  Instead of worrying about someone who's leaving anyway, how about getting on with your life?  If she says she doesn't feel the same way, his feelings are hurt.  If she says she does, then he'll feel even worse when she leaves and mope endlessly.  Chalk it all up as a failure and stop wasting your life being sad about this, there are plenty of other girls once you stop focusing on one that won't workout.

[Welu]

All that assuming Elliot is socially mature/aware enough to know that was what he should have done. So far we've seen he is not.

We also don't know exactly how Padma and Elliot get along. It's heavily hinted that he, Padma and Sam have gone on hikes before ("You always name them Bitey.") and she invited him so they most likely have a friendship outside of work. Again we're not sure, it's possible other than the hikes that they only see each other at work. Elliot does cite, "We work together." as a reason he hasn't told her how he feels. Also it's hard to express your feelings enough when they've reached love stage without your boss' child jumping down hills to catch snakes.

_{I'm also going to take this chance to say I loathe playing "the game".}

[jwhouk]

And yet, we still haven't seen cross-neck guy appear again in the strip.

[snubnose]

_{I'm also going to take this chance to say I loathe playing "the game".}

With WOMEN ?

Isnt that kind of ... being a spoilsport ?

[TinPenguin]

And yet, we still haven't seen cross-neck guy appear again in the strip.

New theory:

Cross-neck guy is Pizza Girl!

[Throg]

_{I'm also going to take this chance to say I loathe playing "the game".}

[Throg]

Poor hopeful hopeless shy big ol' lug Eliot. 

@stoutfiles: yes, it's very high school. No, it doesn't mean that everybody gets past that kind of behavior, well into their 20's. 

BTW, nice to see that Marten is damn well aware that Padma hasn't given him an interested vibe at all.  So basically he's attracted because -- she's attractive, and that's about it. 

[Celsian]

We also don't know exactly how Padma and Elliot get along. It's heavily hinted that he, Padma and Sam have gone on hikes before ("You always name them Bitey.") and she invited him so they most likely have a friendship outside of work....

Ug... I just got a sick feeling in my stomach after reading this...

Could it be that Padma brought Marten along knowing it would bother Elliot in an attempt to get him to finally open up? In my experience us guys are pretty bad at hiding our feelings from the one's we're interested in, so Padma probably knows... Maybe she's tired of the charade and wants Elliot to speak up. Since her announcement that she was leaving didn't do it, she's trying one last ditch effort by bringing another guy into the picture.

Long shot, yes, but ridiculously plausible. I hope for Marten's sake this isn't the case = (

[vsonics]

I wonder how Momo feels, watching all this and knowing how much her social protocol database could help. The SPDB probably says not to volunteer advice. She waited until Angus was wondering out loud what to do before she offered a suggestion, and that was for someone she knew relatively well.

Watching all of what? Momo probably gets pretty frustrated with Marigold sometimes, but I'm not sure that she's integrated into the rest of the group enough to realize that a social protocol database would even be helpful. She's just met Elliot and Padma, and hasn't been seen actually talking to either of them. Though it does makes you wonder how much work really went into the SPDB and what kind of intricate situations it's prepared to handle. Considering the target demographic for the KawaiiPC, it might not be very much more than a set up for your basic social interactions.

We also don't know exactly how Padma and Elliot get along. It's heavily hinted that he, Padma and Sam have gone on hikes before ("You always name them Bitey.") and she invited him so they most likely have a friendship outside of work....

Ug... I just got a sick feeling in my stomach after reading this...

Could it be that Padma brought Marten along knowing it would bother Elliot in an attempt to get him to finally open up? In my experience us guys are pretty bad at hiding our feelings from the one's we're interested in, so Padma probably knows... Maybe she's tired of the charade and wants Elliot to speak up. Since her announcement that she was leaving didn't do it, she's trying one last ditch effort by bringing another guy into the picture.

Long shot, yes, but ridiculously plausible. I hope for Marten's sake this isn't the case = (

At this point we can pretty safely assume that the girl Elliot's so in love with in his first appearance is Padma. There he was afraid to tell her because it might ruin their friendship, so I'd say they're pretty good buddies outside of work.  But those are both just excuses. Poor Elliot's real problem is being blessed with a crippling fear of rejection.

As far as Padma using Marten, I don't think she's quite manipulative enough for that. But I also don't think it would be so bad even if that WAS the case. She invited Marten along as a friend in a group big enough that it was instantly obvious it wasn't a date. Marten seems pretty willing to stand aside for Elliot, especially after this last comic. Padma wasn't running around breaking hearts and going out of her way to make Elliot jealous. And desperate times...

ADDED:

New theory:

Cross-neck guy is Pizza Girl!

Looking back at that strip again, I just noticed that there's a piece of bread pretty awkwardly peeking out over cross-neck guy's shoulder, like he's holding it behind his back. Perhaps...Baguette Boy?

[stoutfiles]

We also don't know exactly how Padma and Elliot get along. It's heavily hinted that he, Padma and Sam have gone on hikes before ("You always name them Bitey.") and she invited him so they most likely have a friendship outside of work....

Ug... I just got a sick feeling in my stomach after reading this...

Could it be that Padma brought Marten along knowing it would bother Elliot in an attempt to get him to finally open up? In my experience us guys are pretty bad at hiding our feelings from the one's we're interested in, so Padma probably knows... Maybe she's tired of the charade and wants Elliot to speak up. Since her announcement that she was leaving didn't do it, she's trying one last ditch effort by bringing another guy into the picture.

Long shot, yes, but ridiculously plausible. I hope for Marten's sake this isn't the case = (

If she knows anything, it's more likely she brought Marten along so that Elliot wouldn't try to announce his love for her.  Girls increase the group size when they don't want to be alone with someone.

However, given the way Padma has been portrayed so far, I doubt she has any idea.  Then again, I'm shocked a co-worker hasn't said anything to her yet (since one knows, I assume they all do).

[pwhodges]

Or they have, but she's still  oblivious!   (Yes, I've known people who could do that.)

[FunkyTuba]

Neuroses of the Majii?

I want to write a story now where I can steal this for a title. There's some kind of great story in there somewhere.

Please take the title with my blessings. Just send me a copy of whatever you come up with.

[Cornan]

In the real world, it is pretty obvious within the first 6 months whether you have a chance or not.  ...  Girls will rarely say they're not interested, they'll just do what they consider to be nice and avoid the issue.  ... (big turnoff, girls like to play "the game"), all he had to do is indirectly check to see if she's interested.

None of the women I dated in college fit your stereotype. Just thought you should maybe know that not ALL women are manipulative and like to "play the game" or are overtly obvious about their reactions to people they're interested in.

[idontunderstand]

Poor Elliot. They want you or they don't.

Or they want you but don't want you to know that because they think it's complicated and all will end in misery. Or they don't know how much they really do want you until someone else has you, and then it's Too Late until you get dumped, at which time they're in another relationship. Which, if they've since let it drop that they did want you at some point, they now are bent on demonstrating how much better this new hook-up is than yours and theirs could ever have been.

There are many, many variations, but these come immediately to mind for some dang reason. Love lives are rarely simple except for people like Pre-Faye Swen.

Good point... I guess I just got to thinking of Elliott Smith (the song Say Yes) because of his name and the situation.

Still, you know. When it comes down to it, they're gonna say yes or they won't. And then you have to move on.

[Black Sword]

It'd be troubling if you suddenly were not confrontational.

Why thank you!

Don't forget the part about it being a sign of involuntary personnel change on a systemic basis!

If your automatic reaction to a choice of words is to put it through a filter about whether or not it's "offensive" rather than "descriptive" or "evocative," you really need to turn off the Politically Correct Decision Matrix.

My reaction to writers' choices of words is: "what meaning, emotional tone etc. did they intend to convey?". My reaction to "tentacle" when used as a metaphor for influence is: "this writer regards the influence as malign". The dictionaries I consulted to check my initial reaction back me up on this. Every one, in supplying examples of this kind of use of "tentacle", offered such usages as "the tentacles of organized crime", "the tentacles of corruption", etc. The Oxford American goes so far as to give: "An insidious* spread of influence and control: the Party's tentacles reached into every nook and cranny of people's lives." People are entitled to their opinions, and entitled to express them, but also wholly responsible for what they say, and how they say it. Playing the "political correctness" card is a cop-out.

*My emphasis.

I will observe that I used it in the simple definition of "something resembling a tentacle, esp in its ability to reach out or grasp," with an added connotation in context of its powerful ability to reel back in the object being grasped. Had my goal been to characterize it as insidious, then I would have added the adjective to bring that into focus and emphasize. As a matter of fact, all it would have taken for you to confirm negative intent from me would have been to ask if it was meant perjoratively, rather than assume so from the get-go.

I'll state the obvious, but the web has seen countless examples of miscommunications, misinterpreting tone, misreading messages or reading into messages to get things that were not there. You instantly taking offense over trivialities fits "politically correct" attitudes, so if you dislike the hat, do something about it rather than call it a cop-out.

[Welu]

_{I'm also going to take this chance to say I loathe playing "the game".}

With WOMEN ?

Isnt that kind of ... being a spoilsport ?

I am a straight woman. I find it just easier overall rather than playing hard-to-get or wondering when to call or freaking out because they haven't called. I got into my current relationship when I realized my boyfriend liked me but was too nervous to ask and was doing the, "So, what you doing tomorrow? You're free. Cool, I'm free too" hint thing but not working up the courage to just ask me to hang out so I asked him out. We're together near a year and a half now.

It might just be impatience but I also don't really like the feeling when I don't know where I stand with people, not just in a romantic sense. I'd rather just say to someone, "I like you and want to get to know you better." and if they say, "Yes", great, if they say, "No", I'll take the ego-hurt and move on.

I was thinking of that when I was writing my earlier comment.

[LoveJaneAusten]

What's the deal with every character from the Secret Bakery being astonishingly boring.

[YourMaster]

Normally I wouldn't jump into a one on one Internet quarrel, but:

Black Sword, the word 'tentacle' is absolutely pejorative in implication, and if you didn't mean it pejoratively it's on you to fix that (by clarifying or apologizing or whatever), not on everybody else to assume you didn't mean what you said.

I'd argue that "but you must assume that everybody had a non-hostile intent even when they use hostile language and ask them politely whether they really mean what they say" is itself political correctness run amok.

[TinPenguin]

What's the deal with every character from the Secret Bakery being astonishingly boring.

It's not their fault. They work in a very boring place. Not everyone gets to keep a sword under the counter and have dinosaur-shaped coffee machines teleporting everywhere. The best they get is giant blender things catching fire occasionally and a bit of townie drama. Just the dull life of a city baker.

[stoutfiles]

In the real world, it is pretty obvious within the first 6 months whether you have a chance or not.  ...  Girls will rarely say they're not interested, they'll just do what they consider to be nice and avoid the issue.  ... (big turnoff, girls like to play "the game"), all he had to do is indirectly check to see if she's interested.

None of the women I dated in college fit your stereotype. Just thought you should maybe know that not ALL women are manipulative and like to "play the game" or are overtly obvious about their reactions to people they're interested in.

"The game" is not manipulative, both sides willingly play it.  In retrospect it's seen as silly but if my current girlfriend asked me out immediately upon meeting it would be a turnoff.  It's human nature to like something more when you've earned it, rather than have it handed to you immediately.

I can shoot a hole in anyone's factual statement for the sake of argument, there aren't many truly absolute things.  My example of the game and people playing it covers the overwhelmingly vast majority of people.

[wrwight]

So apparently Stoutflies, I was wrong when I said before that [previous statement] was the closest I would ever get to agreeing with you. I happen to agree with you 100% on this one. There's a dance that we all have to go through, and the problem is some of us are clumsy and some of us never quite learned the steps right, but we still have to at least try if we want to get anywhere. There are of course exceptions, and people who reject that notion, but being straight forward or up front with someone is as likely to worsen the situation at least as often, probably more often than being a little bit more subtle. It's a matter of not taking people outside their comfort zones. It's the same reason you wouldn't tell someone you love them on your first date (HIMYM, anyone?), and avoid certain other topics as well. There are of course situations in which it's more socially acceptable to be more forward, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

[Kugai]

Maybe Marten will play Matchmaker here.



Hey, weirder things have happened!

[Tova]

I get the feeling that everyone here has a somewhat different notion of what constitutes "playing the game." When Welu said she didn't like to play the game, I'm sure she wasn't saying that she asks someone she has just met out.

Obviously everyone approaches courtship differently. Some like to be straightforward about it, others more circumspect, and others still have fairly exact internal rules that the other party must follow in order to be considered eligible. This is simplifying things somewhat for the sake of discussion, but depending on where you sit on that line, I imagine that you consider people who are most straightforward about their feelings as being too forward, and those who are less straightforward as "playing the game."

So just be careful when trying to claim that everyone "plays the game" to make sure we are all talking about the same thing.

[Akima]

You instantly taking offense over trivialities fits "politically correct" attitudes, so if you dislike the hat, do something about it rather than call it a cop-out.

I regard "politically correct" as no more than an insult used in an attempt to delegitimise somebody else's position. In my opinion, it says far more about the people who use it, than those to whom they're attempting to attach the label. Use of the term is very frequently associated, as in this case, with asserting the privilege of deciding what is a "triviality", and feeling entitled to assign other people's concerns to that category. Pained demands to be given the benefit of the doubt, rather than taking responsibility for what is actually said, are another very common feature.

[Cornan]

Edited into oblivion because, as noted below the "playing the game" argument/discussion is rapidly getting off topic.

[jwhouk]

Okay, I'm a bit lost - how does "game playing" fit in with the fact that Padma's clueless and Elliot is Mr. Timid when it comes to romance? I'm getting more of a "two ships passing in the night" vibe than I am that Padma's playing a game.

[Tova]

Okay, I'm a bit lost - how does "game playing" fit in with the fact that Padma's clueless and Elliot is Mr. Timid when it comes to romance? I'm getting more of a "two ships passing in the night" vibe than I am that Padma's playing a game.

I think it's just the forums floating off topic. Again.

[jwhouk]

This forum? Going off-topic? Perish the thought! 

[themacnut]

Okay, I'm a bit lost - how does "game playing" fit in with the fact that Padma's clueless and Elliot is Mr. Timid when it comes to romance? I'm getting more of a "two ships passing in the night" vibe than I am that Padma's playing a game.

Some people may be wondering how much of Padma's cluelessness is real and how much of it is an act, at least where Elliot is concerned. I've known people who played "clueless" to avoid dealing directly with other people's romantic or sexual interest in them.

Remember, when Padma concluded that Momo was Marten's robot child, some of us though she was messing with Marten.

[Tova]

Would that be that playing a game, though, or would it just be unwillingness to directly approach an awkward topic? I would say the latter (if Padma were indeed not blissfully unaware).

[Cornan]

I don't think Padma's playing with anyone. I think she really is just that clueless (I'd be happily surprised to be wrong. I'm not terribly fond of her character as is.) I also don't really feel too harshly about Elliot in this situation either. He definately has gone about things the wrong way but that doesn't make him stupid or a bad person. My hope here is that Marten gives him a gentle nudge to go talk to her but also preps him to realize she may not return his feelings.

The best way I can think to phrase it to someone in Elliot's position is "Hey, at least you'll know and have closure. If she does like you, well, you two can figure it out from there. Yeah I think she's cute and was seeing how things went myself, but if she's leaving soon it sounds like you've got more invested here than me. Good luck, man." or something along those lines.

Edit for clarification:

I'd be happily surprised to find she's not that dense. NOT happily surprised to find that she's actually mucking about with Elliot's feelings. That's just not cool.

[FunkyTuba]

Seems like all the TSB people (except Jim) have been deliberately crafted to be unambiguous in their general nature.

I mean Padma's 100% oblivious and 100% straightforward.

Elliot's 100% good-natured and 100% timid, though perhaps he can turn it off at the bar as a bouncer... unless he's successful there merely because of his size.

Rene seems to be 100% unfriendly.

This characterization is somewhat undercut by the fact that we've seen the CoD characters in a _lot_ more situations than the TSB people. Maybe the grey areas just haven't shown themselves?

[akronnick]

I don't think the comic has shown any of the TSB characters enough to say they are 100% anything with statistical rigour.

[Paranoid]

Are we sure Elliot is a bouncer?  As far as I can tell, the only reference to it was by Wil in strip 1883, and Wil could have been talking about a different guy names Elliot.  I ask because unless Jeph has already said so elsewhere I just don't see Elliot being the sort of person who could handle 'bouncing' people.

[Tova]

I can actually easily imagine him becoming a different person when a friend is physically threatened.

[Cornan]

I can actually easily imagine him becoming a different person when a friend is physically threatened.

That's what I've been assuming. I figure that a bar that has a weeping hour and closets of Victorian dress-up clothes to defeat awkwardness probably let's you get away with quite a bit of shenanigans before they kick you out. Wherever that line lies I think it's far enough along that Elliot doesn't mind bouncing people who cross it. I also think most people, even when drunk, aren't confident enough to try to tangle with Elliot when he wants them to leave.

[Is it cold in here?]

Paranoid, yes, we have been jumping to conclusions about Elliot. It's never been stated that he's the same Elliot who bounces at the Horrible Revelation. If he isn't, then there are two large people named Elliot running around town, which is entirely possible.

[Blackjoker]

As a side note, Marten and Elliot becoming friends after this, IE friends that hang out, etc. would actually probably be a good thing. It adds someone else that Marten can talk to and commiserate with that will likely avoid some of the douchier things that Steve has done to him.

[Is it cold in here?]

Marten needs more male friends. Basically he's got Steve and Pintsize. Now, a fellow moper may not be what he needs.

[Cornan]

Marten needs more male friends. Basically he's got Steve and Pintsize. Now, a fellow moper may not be what he needs.

True, but a fellow moper may be someone that can help Marten stop being so much of a moper himself. If they each keep having to tell each other "Knock it off, you're being silly" maybe that will...I don't know...rub off in two directions?


Stop it you darned shippers! That's not what I meant!

[TheMan]

Wow, great time to decide to catch up on an old comic.

Marten is officially the worlds biggest pussy.

Hot chick you know nothing about but are into confides that she's leaving town...    That is the opening, she handed it to him, "please offer me moonlight walks, picnics, help packing and TWO WEEKS of intense, no holds barred GUILT FREE SEX before I go!"  And the douche instead goes to help guide the "dumb-ass who couldn't nut-up and tell a chick he worked with for years he was interested"'s  tears into his beer.  Seriously?

No wonder Marty is surrounded by dysfunctional tail, he's safe, cause he never tries.  At all. Ever.

You'd have thunk that dominatrix mom of his would have at least taught him SOMETHING.

[Tova]

You'll have to do better than that to match the high standards set by the regular trolls around here. 

[themacnut]

The only way Marten would get "intense, no holds barred GUILT FREE SEX" from any woman would be if she took some initiative and jumped him-which would come back again to her being really hot for him. He ain't getting it any other way, at least not like that-he doesn't have the drive or the playa skills. And depending on the woman, his feelings for her, and the timing of her request, he might refuse such an offer anyway.

EDIT: Oops, I probably just fed a troll didn't I? Oh well, my bad.