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It's a secret! (waffles)

No peeking!

Hanners continuing to peek anyway.

The unmentionable DAAAAAANG

Pintsize's coma

"Damn, girl!"

Mister gentleman

First he was all , and then he was , but soon he was , and finally he was

BOOBS!

Happy Arbor Day 2003!

[Carl-E]

Poor Marten. Fist to the face, knife in the gut and twisting, twisting...

That first part was Faye, not Marten.  Broke the glasses, remember?  

...and Padma is some sort of town bicycle.

Because everyone rides her?  

Gaaaah...  you owe the pun jar for that one.  

[AnAverageWriter]

That first part was Faye, not Marten.  Broke the glasses, remember?  

Maybe it was a figurative fist-in-face?

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

I also find it telling that Elliot says she should hookup with Marten, not date him.  Who says that?

Me? 

[Soulsynger]

That first part was Faye, not Marten.  Broke the glasses, remember?  

Maybe it was a figurative fist-in-face?

It most certainly was. Thanks. °.o

I also find it telling that Elliot says she should hookup with Marten, not date him.  Who says that?

Someone who is innocent enough to not know what "hooking up" actually translates to after a certain point in the adult life. Poor Elliot. I wanna dress him in white and make him go to Dr. Hitch. (or whatever Will Smith was called in that movie, never saw it...)

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

Could we refrain from calling Padma a slut, guys? Or implying that she is somehow a really awful person for having drunken sexytimes with Marten? Like, fucking come on, now. 

[VonKleist]

I also find it telling that Elliot says she should hookup with Marten, not date him.  Who says that?  You should go have sex with that guy before you leave?  It's like Elliot already knew Padma was pretty slutty.  Maybe that's why Marten is so sad in the last panel, he now realizes it was a one-nighter and Padma is some sort of town bicycle.

Come off it. You´re making general assumptions based on next to nothing.
THey had sex, woo, big deal -.-

I´m pretty sure Elliot will get over it even if Marten tells him in the current conversation.

[Carl-E]

Dr. ROFLPWN, To be fair, it was  stoutflies.  


Oh and bytheway...

   <------------------------------  See this?  


Yes, I knew what soulsynger meant.  




DAAAANG, you people just don't know how to take a joke!  Back in MY day we didn't have any "emoticons", we had to guess! And believe me, it could be even harder face to face!  I remember this one time, in school...  Nah, nevermind.  

[pwhodges]

<admin>
I have banned stoutfiles from posting.  I would prefer that we discuss the comic rather than his particular view of it.
</admin>

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

Ahaha whoops it was stoutfiles. Well nevermind then. Sorry, tired and on a smartphone screen. :B

EDIT: Daaaaang not even inb4 the ban, hopy shit

[AnAverageWriter]

<admin>
I have banned stoutfiles from posting.  I would prefer that we discuss the comic rather than his particular view of it.
</admin>

Seems I was his only fan.

[Soulsynger]

Yes, I knew what soulsynger meant.  

Bfrrrrt... believe me, I knew you knew.
Sometimes you kill me with your ramblings, you know that? A toast to you, good sir, and to the olden golden days of blunder and dapper, old chum.

@Admin:
Banned someone from posting because of a controversial view or... ?? What? °.o

[Y]

I wouldn't say Padma is promiscuous. It's unknown how long she has been single, and how much time has passed since they met. Taking in account that she's leaving soon, there was little time to 'seal the deal'/spend quality time/assure he's 'the one'.

[VonKleist]

I think it´s not that Stoutfiles' views were in themselves controversial, but rather that they were pretty much always based on general assumptions about the comic and it´s characters, or imho based on very strongly coloured and debateable personal views.

[drewdane]

Heh, purple boxers.

Heh......Wait......purple boxers? Tries to never get angry?

Oh sweet merciful AI in the sky! MARTEN REED IS REALLY BRUCE BANNER!

Looked like boxer briefs to me, but that doesn't compute since Martin is apparently straight.

The joke is that Bruce Banner, the Incredible Hulk, wore purple pants.

Yes, I got the joke and made a funny of my own.

Straight guys don't wear boxer briefs? Oh man, now I'm all confused about my sexuality.

Just a silly stereotype - maybe an outdated one too.

[iduguphergrave]

stoutflies didn't want to debate; he was just constantly looking for a fight or something to be pissed off about. It was not conducive to what we do in here. Thank you, pwhodges.

Anyhoo....I didn't want Marten to confess to Elliot before, but now that Elliot's brought up the fact that he's cool with them hooking up, he probably should. Think about it, if Marten just walks away now, and Elliot finds out later (and he will, I have no doubt about that), he'll know Marten purposely kept it from him. Either way, I fear for Marten; Elliot might say he's cool with Marty hooking up with Padma, but he might change his mind when he realizes it actually happened (he might even think "She lied to me. She said she wouldn't be with anyone before she left.").

[Mr. Doctor]

Banned from posting? Is there another kind of ban around here?  

Anyway: I see two different ways of understanding the whole "she didn't want to get involved with anyone before she left"
1) She changed her mind after saying that and maybe wants to have fun times with Marten
2) This was just a one-time thing.

I really want to see Marten and Padma together. I think they look cute and it seems like a relationship without hella drama like when he was with Dora.

[Throg]

You don't troll to the point of pissing off the mods. No excuses. 

oh wait--

[TheEvilDog]

Am I the only one hearing Leaving on a jet plane throughout this entire storyline?

[pwhodges]

Banned from posting? Is there another kind of ban around here? 

A simple ban prevents logging in at all, and is what I do to spammers and trolls, for instance, and what previous admins have automatically done.  In this case I used a ban that prevents posting (and also blocks re-registering another account to get round it) but allows logging in so that the person can continue to get their unread post flags.  Bans can also be set for a limited time, so can be used as a temporary punishment - but I have not used this possibility yet, as I don't want to encourage a culture of testing the limits of tolerance which this might lead to.

Today's ban was not for being controversial, which obviously should not be an offence in itself - repeated expression of unacceptable sexist views was the main, but not the sole, basis.  I don't believe there was any intent to troll, unlike the previous people whose bans I've instigated.

[edit]:
P.S.: There is also a way in which I could prevent a person posting just in a specific forum; I can picture circumstances in which that might be used.

[Mr. Doctor]

Thanks pwhodges, I was mostly curious about how things work here when it comes to bans and now I know.

[Paranoid]

Holy pooper scoops!  I mean, I was planning on making an observation at some point about how, yes, Jeph is probably joking about writing Marten's happiness out of the comic, but also yes, the reason the joke's so funny is because of the element of truth in it.  But nope, turns out he was dead serious.

Okay, while I agree stoutfiles does get carried away with his accusations sometimes, the point he's trying to make is looking sharper and sharper all the time.  Let's face it, this does not paint Padma in a good light.  According to Elliot, she specifically said she doesn't want to get involved with anyone before she left.  So what does she do?  Hook up with Marten for a one-night stand, without first making sure he's comfortable with a one-night stand.  And as it turns out he isn't.

Now, there is a chance that the drinking got the better of Padma, but again I have to point out that she set up the situation, not Marten.  She invited him dancing, and given how much Marten whined about not being able to dance I expect that he tried to opt out but, just like with the camping trip earlier, she wouldn't take no for an answer.  And now she'll probably move back to California without ever facing the consequences of how she led Marten on.

EDIT: There's also a chance she changed her mind after her talk with Elliot.  We'll have to see I guess.  If so I hope she didn't do that while drunk...

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

Now, there is a chance that the drinking got the better of Padma, but again I have to point out that she set up the situation, not Marten.  She invited him dancing, and given how much Marten whined about not being able to dance I expect that he tried to opt out but, just like with the camping trip earlier, she wouldn't take no for an answer.  And now she'll probably move back to California without ever facing the consequences of how she led Marten on.

EDIT: There's also a chance she changed her mind after her talk with Elliot.  We'll have to see I guess.  If so I hope she didn't do that while drunk...

If a girl told you she was moving away in a couple weeks, what would you expect to happen?
I'm not sure if the best way to approach things is all like, "Oh yeah, this is definitely romantic, monogamous and long-term until we have a conversation in which we outline all the boundaries establishing that this is purely casual." For the sake of my own feelings, I usually do it the other way around.

But yah, I agree with your edit. If it was a drunken decision she didn't seem too unhappy about it. I guess we won't know 'til later tho.

[Carl-E]

...and Padma is some sort of town bicycle.

Because everyone rides her?  

Gaaaah...  you owe the pun jar for that one.  

Are you not familiar with the phrase "town bicycle"? It's far from new.

Sorry, new to me! 

[Matheyus]

Considering the context, it seems possible that Padma's response to Elliot's joke might have been a (possibly misguided) attempt to spare Elliot's feelings/avoid further awkwardness, and not necessarily an accurate indicator of her feelings at the time.

[Throg]

...snip...
Let's face it, this does not paint Padma in a good light.  According to Elliot, she specifically said she doesn't want to get involved with anyone before she left.  So what does she do?  Hook up with Marten for a one-night stand, without first making sure he's comfortable with a one-night stand.  And as it turns out he isn't.

I disagree.  There's the whole aspect of consenting adults to consider. She was upfront about going home for a sick relative; she had gotten to know Marten somewhat (townie drama snark aside); she had determined Marten and Steve weren't a gay couple; they went out on a semi-quasi-date (hiking, dancing); they hook up for a night: casual, no promises, no declarations of undying eternal love: what else is there to spell out? A written contract, signed and notarized?  

Life is rough, but getting laid does NOT count as rough. And Marten has dealt with worse crap, he'll get over it -- but not without a lot of highly entertaining angst.

[Paranoid]

Good point, Matheyus.  In which case Marten is suffering from a case of extremely bad luck.  Then again, what other kind of luck does he have?

[DSL]

In Padma's defense:
Marten knows she's leaving. Padma knows he knows, because she told him. It's possible the two of them are operating on different assumptions about what will  happen going forward, but you can't blame either one for the other's assumptions.
Also, I tend to assume people are decent  until they prove to me otherwise. Sometimes IRL that process doesn't take long, but still ...
Also, I want to wait to see what happens in the story (as much fun as prognosticating can be).

[not2b]

Good point, Matheyus.  In which case Marten is suffering from a case of extremely bad luck.  Then again, what other kind of luck does he have?

Throughout the history of the comic, Marten has had a whole stream of beautiful women eager to jump his bones if he would just get off his skinny, passive ass and stop always waiting for the woman to make the first move. He just got laid by a beautiful woman who made it very easy for him to get the hint (kiss me you fool), and now you say he has "extremely bad luck" because his romantic notions got deflated a bit?

We should all have such bad luck.

[DSL]

Welcome new poster. Good first post.

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

+1

[Wreck Smurfy]

Agreed. Can I please have some of Marten's bad luck? Pretty, pretty please?

[gangler]

Count me in for a slice of that pie.

[iduguphergrave]

mmmmm......curry pie 

please don't ban me next

[SomeCanadianWeirdo]

You don't want his luck pie.  It includes Pintsize as an intergral component, and only Marten has the ability to survive for long in constant proximity to the little guy.

[ihaveavoice]

Or it could be that Pintsize could only survive for so long around people other than Marten. Faye's not the only one who's put dents in his head.

I'm kind of surprised that Padma seems to need defending. For some reason I didn't expect to see slut-shaming around here, though it's bound to pop up everywhere considering the world we live in. I certainly didn't expect to see that kind of talk after one little night of fun between two unattached characters! I've never had that specific kind of fun but I still know that it doesn't have some sort of magical tainting effect on a woman's value as a person, regardless of how much she has or with whom.

[Skewbrow]

Agree with Matheyus about the context of Padma's remark to Elliot.

And the term some poster used to describe Padma... Not funny. Not cool at all. Not a shred of evidence in support of using that term. I mean, the fleshlight incident brought Pintsize down to all fours, but that is... something much lower. If you utter that term at a bar, the discussion will continue outside.

We have very few clues about what's going on Padma's mind. She may have given a couple of hints about being interested in Marten. Those may have been lost in translation. She is about to leave behind her life of the past couple years minimum (how long does it take to work your way to be the day shift manager? I dunno?). Not voluntarily - out of sense of duty. We can debate, whether her telling Marten about her pending departure will absolve her of all responsibility to Marten's feelings or not, but give her some slack, will you.

[Kugai]

Just so long as Marten doesn't get The Black Spot after Elliot finds out.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Akima]

Okay, while I agree stoutfiles does get carried away with his accusations sometimes, the point he's trying to make is looking sharper and sharper all the time.  Let's face it, this does not paint Padma in a good light.  According to Elliot, she specifically said she doesn't want to get involved with anyone before she left.  So what does she do?  Hook up with Marten for a one-night stand, without first making sure he's comfortable with a one-night stand.  And as it turns out he isn't.

More woman-blaming? Did not Padma explicitly tell Marten that she was leaving town in the immediate future? Yes she did. Did she give even a hint of looking for a long-term relationship? No she didn't. Just why are you daubing the (presumably scarlet) paint only on Padma? If Marten isn't comfortable with a one-night-stand (or at least a short-term, friends-with-benefits type relationship), does he not have some responsibility here? He could have turned down the chance of sex, but instead happily grabbed at it, and was plainly very satisfied. His later moping is his responsibility, not Padma's.

I have to point out that she set up the situation, not Marten.  She invited him dancing, and given how much Marten whined about not being able to dance I expect that he tried to opt out but, just like with the camping trip earlier, she wouldn't take no for an answer.  And now she'll probably move back to California without ever facing the consequences of how she led Marten on.

Poor helpless Marten. He might be an adult man, but he has no responsibility for his own actions; it's all on Padma. All this "leading him on" occurred after she told him she was leaving town. After she leaves, Marten will have to face the consequences of his own choices.

[Near Lurker]

...seriously, folks, it's one one-night stand.  I mean, "town bicycle"?  The hell?  She doesn't seem to know Dora, and if she were the "town bicycle," she'd know him through Sven.  Argue with that!

(...don't actually argue with that.)

Although it does reflect badly on Marten... if Padma went to the party specifically intending not to sleep with him, got drunk, and did... that's... kinda bad.  (Or, more likely, she was lying to spare Elliot's feelings.)

[Fen]

Okay, while I agree stoutfiles does get carried away with his accusations sometimes, the point he's trying to make is looking sharper and sharper all the time.  Let's face it, this does not paint Padma in a good light.  According to Elliot, she specifically said she doesn't want to get involved with anyone before she left.  So what does she do?  Hook up with Marten for a one-night stand, without first making sure he's comfortable with a one-night stand.  And as it turns out he isn't.

Now, there is a chance that the drinking got the better of Padma, but again I have to point out that she set up the situation, not Marten.  She invited him dancing, and given how much Marten whined about not being able to dance I expect that he tried to opt out but, just like with the camping trip earlier, she wouldn't take no for an answer.  And now she'll probably move back to California without ever facing the consequences of how she led Marten on.

EDIT: There's also a chance she changed her mind after her talk with Elliot.  We'll have to see I guess.  If so I hope she didn't do that while drunk...

Oh dear.

"Not getting involved with anyone" can mean many things. It can mean "not dating seriously", it can mean "not do anything at all", it can mean "bang everyone around because goddamnit all the hot guys live in this city". It varies. Just because you know you're leaving town in a while doesn't mean you have to stay celibate till then. It can be something you say to someone to give them a nice let-down, like "I'm sorry, I'm not planning on getting involved with anyone" instead of saying "Dude. No." As straightforward as Padma can be, since Elliott had just confessed to her, it would have been horribly inappropriate to say anything BUT that (who the hell suggests hookups like that, anyway?). "Oh yes, now that you mention it he is pretty hot" would have broken the poor boy's heart even more.

Padma went dancing to have fun. That thing people like to do, especially when a few months of agony are ahead(because caring for a sick relative is not going to be the fun of her life). She called Marten over because he seemed like a fun guy. After that, she decided that sex with Marten would also be fun. This is not "setting up", this is "going with the flow". Though I am aware that some people do go out precisely to pick up girls, most hookups happen because they felt right at the time. Unless one party is so drunk that they are incapacitated(and neither of them are), that's OK.

What consequences? She showed the boy a good time; the fact that he is unable to comprehend that simple situation denotes his lack of maturity, not her lack of responsibility.

[Carl-E]

I'd like to remind people that this ... exchange of bodily fluids was entered into under the influence of alcohol.  Under the influence of which most people are not able to make the best judgements.  

Padma may have been serious when she told Elliot that she didn't want to get involved with someone, but then got lost in the moment while under he influence.  

Marten may well have realized that getting involved with someone leaving wouldn't be good for him emotionally, but then... well, you get the idea.  


Then there's the reaction Angus had in the Marigold incident.  One part of him was going "WOO!", but he was able to stifle it.  

Padma and Marten were not...  physical contact can be discombobulating, at the very least.  Give someone a passionate kiss, then tell me what I just said.  


Go ahead, I'll wait.  







See?  

[Throg]

...seriously, folks, it's one one-night stand.  I mean, "town bicycle"?  The hell?  She doesn't seem to know Dora, and if she were the "town bicycle," she'd know him through Sven.  Argue with that!

Actually, that's an extremely good point.  If anyone deserves the "town bicycle" monicker, it's Sven.  There's been absolutely no hint of Padma's past sexual history; to call her out based on one hookup is just flinging the whole archaic 'oh-the-WOMAN-is-the-slut, she-TEMPTED-me' attitude around.

[AnAverageWriter]

"repeated expression of unacceptable sexist views was the main, but not the sole, basis.  I don't believe there was any intent to troll"

Really?

Really?

You would ban someone for merely having a point of view that differs from the norm? That surprises me, Pwhodges.

I hold views on certain topics that differ from the norm around here but I never would intentionally use them to be disruptive- am I to be banned as well?

[Overkillengine]

+1 to "If Marten could have just not slept with her if it was so bad for him later."

Men can actually disobey their little head when they want to bad enough. Crazy thought, I know.

She dropped enough hints about not being around for a relationship that to be anymore clear would take a notary public and a couple reams of paper- he chose to proceed anyways. Not her fault. If he knew he wasn't going to get all he wanted out of the exchange, he should have moved on. Doing so saves a lot of heartache and wasted effort.

The only regret he should really have is possibly hurting Elliot's feelings if he finds out; that poor doofus is still going through that silly "Nice Guy" stage that a lot of us get browbeat into us before we learn better.

As far as comparing Padma to Sven:

No.

Sven back before his reform was a classic sleaze, which means I doubt he let something like honesty get in the way of him getting laid. Padma was about as honest as you can get with being so blunt as to be deliberately cruel. Vast world of difference.

[EnglishCrunch]

Hi, long time reader, first time poster. Actually, I lurked for a couple days before I signed up too. This built up and just... uh, here:

Ok, so Padma-hate is weird and uncalled for. She seems like a nice lady and not nearly as self-aware as some of the other characters. Jeph trying to recreate his Marigold success with another character whose mental state is structured very differently from most of his female characters, I guess. It's sort of his thing in my mind, letting characters be "themselves" without serving a direct plot function unless they grow into it.

What's really unsettling though is that it seems to translate to a purely gender-motivated thing. Let's be clear, "Slut" is not a gender-specific slur, and as pointed out certainly can be used on guys like Sven with decent accuracy. I've certainly called men and women sluts, both in jest and in seriousness. (Yeah, I'm a judgmental prick, and that's my cross to bear.) If the people who believe Padma is being too easy are making that call because they hate women, I'm not seeing it. It seems to be rooted not in her gender or double standards but in the fact they naturally sympathize with our lovable protagonist Marten, and not the newer character they're less invested in. If Faye had sex with a guy who was leaving town right now, made no promises on either side and then she was left hanging? I'd wager it would be the same people rallying to Faye's side.

Let's not make accusations of sexism, or take the word slut off the table by claiming its discriminatory. Let's also not get too serious about what fictional characters do or do not deserve.

So... yeah. Hi.

[AnAverageWriter]

To be fair, EnglishCrunch, I think there was only one person who actually was serious about labellng Padma as a "slut"...

And he's gone now... so... yeah.

[eurydice23]

Hello all! I'm new here, as you can see.

I'm seeing the classic Eve v. Mary thing going on here. If you aren't demure, you're obviously a temptress. Slut one of the worst labels that you can put on a woman, and as I woman I know this. The first thing I have to say is even if Padma sleeps around, that doesn't make her a bad person. Honestly, I don't see why you should hate her if she does. It doesn't change her intelligence. Clearly she's been moving up in the ranks at the Secret Bakery. If she wanted to have sex with Marten, why not? You all seem to be complaining about Marten's feelings. Marten is an adult man, and should know that sex doesn't mean anything but sex. Sex only has other meanings if you want it to.  If he read too much into it, it's his fault. As others have said, Marten knew what he was doing. He knew Padma was leaving, and he knew that she might never come back. If he assumed that their night together was going to make her stay and date him, quite honestly, he was acting childish.

Whew that was long. Had to get that out.

[Overkillengine]

I don't think it was so much "just having a different view", but more of "having a viewpoint that a specific gender is somehow less entitled to the same rights/ less human than the other gender" overtones being strongly projected.

Not once was it answered why it was OK for Marten to have a one night stand and not Padma. If anything. Marten has been less ethical, (but not to the point of being unethical) as he has not made as much pains to be as clear as she had about what they were available for.

Edit: And it irritates me to see it done to either gender, which is why it should be realized that Marten had the opportunity and ability to choose not to put himself in a situation that was going to depress him later- or to even be depressed about it at all.* To maintain otherwise to also imply men are less than human as well.


*He got laid with minimal effort and only one situation that would cause him major embarrassment- most of us should only be so lucky.

[Akima]

Let's not make accusations of sexism, or take the word slut off the table by claiming its discriminatory. Let's also not get too serious about what fictional characters do or do not deserve.

The word slut is not discriminatory. Applying it solely to the the woman in an entirely voluntary "one night stand" is discriminatory and thoroughly sexist in my view, and I will certainly continue to take that seriously.

To be fair, EnglishCrunch, I think there was only one person who actually was serious about labellng Padma as a "slut"...

He was the only one to use the word. The only one to apply the double-standard? Not so much.

[EnglishCrunch]

Fair enough Akima. Maybe my sensitivities are at fault here. I stand by opinion, that the only double-standard being applied here is between "long-time and beloved characters" vs. "New and less popular characters".

But I also don't claim that opinion to be a flawless interpretation. Also, I learned a long time ago that as a white male of middle-class upbringing, I'm nearly always wrong on this type of thing.

It's like I was built in a lab out of old PC parts: if it involves empathy and sensitivity toward my fellow man, I'm probably doing it wrong.