THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

  • 25 May 2024, 08:36
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: University course funding  (Read 3369 times)

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
University course funding
« on: 25 Jan 2012, 08:54 »

I have split this out from the confessions thread, so that discussion of university loans in the UK and US (and elsewhere, I guess) can continue without inhibition.  The first part of this post refers back to that thread here.

Paul


Ahh, that makes sense. I definitely wouldn't say he's "lucky" per se....just getting his feet wet.


Also, for TE- if you don't like it, change your course! It might take a little longer to complete but it's not worth it to pursue something you don't enjoy. As your namesake once said- "I never did a day's work in my life. It was all fun."

Also, if your programs are anything like here in the states, most of your core classes should count towards your degree and you might get lucky and have some of your specialized ones count as well if you choose something related. (I switched from Interior Design to Fine Art to Art Education and I was able to use a lot of my Fine Art courses as my Art Ed studio work). What are you studying?
« Last Edit: 26 Jan 2012, 09:13 by pwhodges »
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,926
University course funding
« Reply #1 on: 25 Jan 2012, 10:59 »

lepetitfromage, unfortunately it is not that simple to change course - unless Thomas Edison (sorry, mental black hole where your real name is, I can see the hole but not the name) switches uni entirely, Student Finance will only fund 4 years. I can't switch my course because I've done 1 and a bit years of the degree, but 2 and a bit years of funding, and to switch to a different course I'd have to do another 2 years, making it 5 years in total and no loans for the last one. Does that make any sense? Probably not.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17,241
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
University course funding
« Reply #2 on: 25 Jan 2012, 11:35 »

(Ryan)
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
University course funding
« Reply #3 on: 25 Jan 2012, 12:09 »

Yikes. And I thought the financial "aid" process was complicated over here....

They recently changed all of our regulations, but our funding limits are based on what year you're in and what your total dollar amount in loans is. As undergrads, they cap federal loans at just under 60k total for however long it takes you to graduate. Each year has its own limits as well. For grad students, your total amount owed can not exceed 140K (that includes undergrad as well, so assuming you hit the 60k max, that leaves you with 80K in loans for grad school). Of course, this only matters if you are approved for the loan and manage to meet the eligibility requirements as well. 
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

Omega Entity

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,273
University course funding
« Reply #4 on: 25 Jan 2012, 12:10 »

Mine were all accumulated by 2009, I think. Been deferring them ever since, since I don't make enough to make the minimums.
Logged

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,926
University course funding
« Reply #5 on: 25 Jan 2012, 15:27 »

Basically we can get funding for one year longer than the expected duration of our first undergraduate degree. I am doing a three year course over four years, because I had to intermit last year, so I can't take any more time out or I won't be able to graduate (unless I pay everything myself, without any loans or grants). You're not expected to take more than 3 years to do your undergrad, or 4 if it's a four-year course. We don't have the same system as in the USA where you can just keep going and going until you've accumulated credits - you do a specific set of exams each year and then you're done.

Interesting how different everything is!

(Thanks Paul)
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
University course funding
« Reply #6 on: 26 Jan 2012, 06:21 »

I agree, it's definitely interesting to see how this kind of stuff works in other countries. When you sign up for a course, are all of your classes for the next 3 or 4 years predetermined? Or do you have the option of choosing from a selection of certain ones as long as they fit the requirement? For example...I had to take a 4 art history classes- everyone in my program had to take History of Western Art 1 (Egyptian to Medieval)  and 2 (Renaissance to Modern). Then we could choose any other 2 art history classes that were offered by our university. I chose Modern and Far Eastern. Do they offer you those options or is it just kind of "Here are the classes you get, pick the time slots you want"?

When you said you do a specific set of exams, it made me curious as to whether or not everyone who is in the same place in your course is expected to take the exact same set of exams as everyone else.

Basically we can get funding for one year longer than the expected duration of our first undergraduate degree.

Does the funding cycle start over if you decide to get a second bachelor's degree? Or a master's degree? Or are you stuck paying those on your own?


For some reason this is fascinating to me, I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions lol
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,926
University course funding
« Reply #7 on: 26 Jan 2012, 09:05 »

Basically you apply to do a specific degree. I chose law when I was 17, and applied to five unis. They all offered me a place and I chose one. First years all do the same papers (might not be true of EVERY degree but it is of most) and then you will generally have some compulsory ones and some optional ones which you choose at the end of each year for the next year. But they will be the papers offered for that subject and it's rare for there to be any crossover. I'm doing one which the sociology & psychology degree also offers and we take it together, but that's unusual. So basically you are tied to a specific subject from application, unless you are allowed to switch midway.

Funding - we're charged a LOT less than US students, I pay about £3,550 a year (it goes up each year by about £200) but students starting next year or maybe this year will pay £9000 a year, big dramarama about that. The Student Finance company will give everyone loans and grants for their first undergraduate degree and then if you want to do another you're on your own. Graduate degrees usually come with funding, you have to find that and apply for it and I know nothing about it I'm afraid. Luckily for me, my midwifery degree which is another undergraduate one willl be NHS funded so I do get financed, but that's not normal.

Ask away! Sorry if this is clogging up the thread, Paul and IICIH, feel free to bump us out if you like. How does it work over there if you've reached the limit for your federal loans?


Oh also, we don't get to pick our timetables. Lectures are at a particular time and that's it. It works because you can't take more than a specific combination of subjects so they can plan it to suit everyone. Classes are arranged with your supervisors and there are usually only four people in each one so again, easy to sort.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
Re: University course funding
« Reply #8 on: 26 Jan 2012, 10:28 »

I'm not so sure about it being the case that in most degrees first years all have to do the same thing. I imagine it depends heavily upon what institution you're in, and also what degree you're doing, but everyone I know who did a BA rather than a BSc had a fair amount of room to take optional classes.
Logged

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
Re: University course funding
« Reply #9 on: 26 Jan 2012, 10:40 »

Most of the time, we have to apply to specific degrees as well but our schedules are a lot more flexible. We're given requirements related to that degree program but a lot of them aren't time sensitive (unless you need certain prerequisites). In addition to that, you have the general education requirements- everyone has to take at least 2 English classes, 1 math, 1 science, 2 social science and 1 foreign language. Sometimes you can find a school that will allow you to be undeclared but I've always been in a specific program, even when I wanted to be undeclared because I hated my major and couldn't decide what to change it to (FIT wouldn't allow it).

I think the more specialized schools here take a similar approach to yours- I had to apply to my major before I actually applied to the school itself. That was tons of fun....between the 2 essays, multiple furniture sketches and grueling portfolio review....urgh. Then, at the end of each semester we were given our "blocks" for the following semester- our specialized class schedule that couldn't be changed- after which we decided what else we wanted to take and whether or not it would fit into our schedule.

I graduated from SUNY New Paltz and their approach was much different. We were given a list of courses that we absolutely needed to graduate and then we sat down with an advisor to plan out how we wanted them scheduled. The initial plan covered all 4 years (or however long you needed to finish your # of credits) and you followed it as best you could. Sometimes classes would fill up quickly so you'd need to push something back and replace it with another class. It was nice to be so involved in our scheduling but it had the potential to be a giant pain in the ass.


Over here, tuition really depends on whether you go to a public or private school. When I was in high school I wanted so badly to go to Pratt Institute in Brooklyn. My parents pleaded with me to look elsewhere after we found out that tuition alone was $32,000 a year so I applied to FIT (which, although it's strictly an art school is actually part of the SUNY system- short for State University of New York aka a public school). Tuition there was $6,000 a year. When I transferred to New Paltz I could take a lot of my credits with me (except for the really specialized courses like "Design, Color and Lighting Principles and Theory"...those ended up being electives lol).


I typically ended up with between 8,000-10,000 in financial aid per year because I made sure to apply for enough to cover most of my living expenses. After we jump through all the paperwork hoops, the funds get disbursed to the college and then whatever money is left after tuition, fees and room and board (if applicable) gets released to us. We have grants too, but they are a LOT harder to come by. I think at most I may have received a total of 2,000 in grants over the course of 6 years. We're also offered work study, where we are basically just employed by the college for the semester, but it pays peanuts compared to other jobs. I was approved one semester but decided not to do it because I had another job that paid more (and because of that, was not offered work study for the following semesters). After we reach our limits I think we just don't qualify for financial aid anymore. It could just be that we can't receive any more federal loans, which usually have a lower interest rate and allow you more repayment options than loans from private lenders. I only have one private loan- from CitiBank. And they suck. I can't wait to pay that one off!!!


Lucky for you that your degree is covered! That's so awesome :-)
(And ok....4 people per class??? I am SO jealous. I was in a lecture once where the teacher was still asking us our names during the very last week)
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17,241
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: University course funding
« Reply #10 on: 26 Jan 2012, 12:00 »

May's "classes" are I presume what I call "tutorials"; in my case (a looong time ago) they were just two students.  Oxford (and Cambridge too, presumably) is very proud of its tutorial system, and considers it an important USP; however, most other UK universities don't have anything remotely as personal, and like to sneer at the waste that such an intensive system implies (I know because my wife went to one such and now works in another).
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

snalin

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,540
  • You may Baste me
Re: University course funding
« Reply #11 on: 26 Jan 2012, 12:29 »

I'm taking a Bachelor's in Informatics at uni here in Norway. We take 18 courses over 3 years (preferably), and can choose six of them. I think other degrees offer more choices, especially the ones at the humanities, but that's just guessing. The three years does not have to be continuous, and there's usually not a problem if you need to take a year extra to finish because you failed courses or changed your degree, although the university does not like that at all (as they get money from the state based on, amongst other things, number of finished degrees).

You get student loans from the state as long as you're studying (maximum limit is NOK90800 a year, 15,5k USD). If you pass at least 30 points each semester (3 courses for us, the "normal"), you get 40% of that converted to grants (if you don't live at home). I think there's some special rules for part time students and such. I couldn't find official numbers on how long you get your loans, but I know that there's no problem getting them all the way through your master's, even if you are a year behind on finishing. There's some rules about how long behind you can lag though - if you have passed 60 points less than you should have if you took the normal amount of courses - basically if you have taken loans for a year more than you have passed, you won't be able to get any more loans before you've passed some more courses.

Going to uni costs pretty much nothing - I pay 470NOK (80 USD) each semester, and that goes to the student organizations and such. The loans does sadly not cover the living costs for a year (over 90% of the students have a job), but all in all we are pretty well off financially. There pretty much is no kinds of private grants, simply because they are not needed. There is neither any private universities or colleges, although there exists some private schools that has a more job-oriented higher education (they usually cost tons of money, you don't get official loans, and their reputation is mixed).
Logged
I am a cowboy / on a steel horse I ride
I am wanted / Dead or alive

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,926
Re: University course funding
« Reply #12 on: 26 Jan 2012, 15:25 »

The Norwegian system, from what I know very vaguely from talking to Jens and Kris, seems quite good and incredibly financially supported. I wish we were moving towards that sort of system, not the USA system of "take them for every penny they've got and then some".

Yes, when I say "classes" I mean what Paul calls tutorials and I call supervisions. For each one we get given a reading list that generally takes about 15-20 hours to get through, and sometimes also an essay to write, and then we go and discuss the reading in groups of two or three. I have one-to-one supervisions for one of my subjects this year, which is simultaneously great and terrifying. I'm doing five subjects and we have a supervision for each one every fortnight, so lots of reading all the time.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
Re: University course funding
« Reply #13 on: 27 Jan 2012, 02:12 »

I wish my tutorials were that small! Yesterday I was in the smallest one I've ever been in - four people, including myself, excluding my lecturer - and that was due to people skipping it because it was a hard topic.
Usually my tutorials have at least 8 students in them, which is just enough that you can fairly easily fade into the background, or stop paying attention, both of which I am prone to do if I'm not kept on my toes.
Logged

DrPhibes

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 418
  • Hai. Zorro here. Any CC?
Re: University course funding
« Reply #14 on: 27 Jan 2012, 02:37 »

about 20k in debt. IN my second year. If I finish I'll be about 30-40k in debt.
Logged

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
Re: University course funding
« Reply #15 on: 27 Jan 2012, 08:24 »

Wow, snalin that is amazing!

May- that sounds wonderful but scary at the same time. If we ever want closer interaction with our professors, we have to set up a meeting to come see them during office hours (which is about 1-2 hours a week, so you better hope no one needs them the same time you do) orrr you have to come early to class or stay late and hope that they're available. And that you don't have to run from one class to another.

I think the smallest classes I've ever been in were about 15 people- my six hour studio classes. The largest was probably a Survey of Design class that had about 100 first year students in it. I think there are benefits to each- more minds (therefore more opinions and ideas) in the larger setting but more attention in smaller ones. It blows my mind how independent that system is. Our courses typically meet for 3 hours each week- one 3 hour session or 2 ninety minute sessions. Once semester I took 21 credits and it seemed like I was in class every waking moment. There were days I'd spend 9-12 hours on campus. I'd have 1 class from 9am-12pm, then another from 12:15-3:30, then a 2 hour break, followed by another class from 6-9.

How long does each of your supervisions last? I feel like I'd forget so much if I had to go 2 weeks between meetings.
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,926
Re: University course funding
« Reply #16 on: 27 Jan 2012, 09:39 »

Each supervision is an hour long, in theory (sometimes they run over but they aren't supposed to) but really, a supervision is just a way for your supervisor to confirm that you're studying and on the right track. That's why it's called supervision, rather than tutorial, I think (although obviously the Oxford system is similar and named different so maybe I'm talking rubbish) - we are meant to be independent and working all the time. I aim for five hours of reading a day, although at the moment I'm not managing it because I'm busy, exhausted and stressed, and I know I'm considered a slacker by the other students. Most people probably work about 50-60 hours a week, including around 10 hours of lectures.

Right now, I would give quite a lot to be at a different university.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
Re: University course funding
« Reply #17 on: 27 Jan 2012, 12:54 »

 :-( I know the feeling all too well- when it rains, it pours. I'm sorry you're having a tough time....and seriously? Screw those other students. It easy to keep your nose in a book if you have no where else for it to be.
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
Re: University course funding
« Reply #18 on: 29 Jan 2012, 04:27 »

It's weird how different the work ethic can be uni-to-uni and degree-to-degree, May. My girlfriend works for as long as you say most students work at your uni, but she far and away does mountains more work than anybody else I know. Most people I know would consider 5 hours of reading a day to be far more than they're used to, but then I suppose my course is a bit of an exception - we're mostly judged by our ability to criticise primary philosophical sources, so most of the hard work is sitting there and picking holes in the arguments of people far smarter than you.
Logged

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,926
Re: University course funding
« Reply #19 on: 29 Jan 2012, 04:51 »

I have been going through a blip (which I guess is actually not a blip since it's more common for me than the non-blip) of getting more like two or three hours of reading done a day, but that is definitely not usual. It's mental here, everyone is totally obsessed with racking up library time. And yet they never seem to do any actual thinking, no one wants to discuss philosphy or jurisprudence with me, they think I'm crazy for disagreeing with the lecturers and forming my own ideas. Drives me mad.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

Carl-E

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,346
  • The distilled essence of Mr. James Beam himself.
Re: University course funding
« Reply #20 on: 29 Jan 2012, 12:52 »

That's because they're there to learn, not to think!   :lol: :| :psyduck:
Logged
When people try to speak a gut reaction, they end up talking out their ass.
Pages: [1]   Go Up