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[SomeCanadianWeirdo]

Okay, so I watched Starship Troopers the other day,

You poor unfortunate person.

Yeah, Paul Verhoeven, I really believe you when you claim it was supposed to have some sort of anti-facist message, as opposed to you pulling that explaination out of your rear so it made your crap film sound better.

Personally I want Hanners' dad to look like Martin Landau.  But he'll probably look more like Marten's dad I suspect.

[Jabberwocky]

Can we get that picture in wallpaper size?  (Uh... I mean, ha ha today's strip sure was funny wasn't it.)   

Yeah, Paul Verhoeven, I really believe you when you claim it was supposed to have some sort of anti-facist message, as opposed to you pulling that explaination out of your rear so it made your crap film sound better.

...or perhaps, from the book of the same name.   

Personally I want Hanners' dad to look like Martin Landau.  But he'll probably look more like Marten's dad I suspect.

I'm imagining J.P. Manoux, though Jeph will probably surprise us and make him look like John Barrowman or something.

[Soulsynger]

[ ... ]
Sorry, wanted to nip it in the bud.
[ ... ]

Dude, SHE has a NAME!  

What, because I got to spend two hours watching sexy people shoot at giant insects? I regret nothing.

This is going on IMDB.

Anyway, was just a throwaway comment because the whole 'military in space' thing was giving me a Troopers-ish vibe. Today's comic probably shows the less-glamorous reality of it, though. Being posted to space must be boring as hell. I don't blame the lieutenant for wanting to take every opportunity to actually do her job.

Wow. That, somehow, made me really sad.

[Kugai]

Okay, so I watched Starship Troopers the other day,

You poor unfortunate person.

Yeah, Paul Verhoeven, I really believe you when you claim it was supposed to have some sort of anti-facist message, as opposed to you pulling that explaination out of your rear so it made your crap film sound better.

Personally I want Hanners' dad to look like Martin Landau.  But he'll probably look more like Marten's dad I suspect.

Personally, I've always believed that Verhoven should be dragged out into Public Square and given 20 lashes for the butchery of Heinleins classic that he calls a film.

No, I'm not shipping, but when you introduce a loaded gun in the beginning of the story, it usually winds up getting fired by the end.  (Yes, that's a metaphor.)

[zmeiat_joro]

It scares me that anyone might see Verhoeven's film as anything but satire. It's about as in-your-face blunt as satire is possible to get. Even my teenage self saw that.

[Deadlywonky]

supposedly the film in the series that got closest to the book was actually ST3 because of the whole 'power armor' thing. rather than sending men into combat protected by little more than ballistic vests and helmets

[Mad Cat]

I have a bad habit of finding out a popular book is coming to the big screen, running out and reading said book, and then being sorely disappointed by the movie-going experience. Luckily, that didn't happen with Harry Potter, because I had no interest in it until my mom dragged me to the movie, or Twilight, because there's no way I'm watching the movies OR reading the books.

With Starship Troopers, I had to go a little schizophrenic. The book was so good, once the on-screen drek started, I had to disassociate my book experience from the movie and tried to appreciate the movie on its own merits. As far as I'm concerned, there were no scenes in the movie that did not include NPH. Hearing that ST3 came closest to the book, I'm wondering about seeking it out to watch it as if it were the only movie to bear the name.

[Earin]

Hearing that ST3 came closest to the book, I'm wondering about seeking it out to watch it as if it were the only movie to bear the name.

Bearing in mind that I haven't read the book: ST3 was hilariterrible, but I really liked the first ST film - it was quite silly and fun as an action film, and I definitely saw it as a pretty blunt satire on the Glory Of Military Service and the role of media influence.

[J]

RE: Verhoeven's film

I honest to God loved it for being a mindless action flick. It led me to Heinlen's far superior book, which tempered my enthusiasm. I cannot imagine the sort of spite it takes to go out of your way to license something specifically to give it a middle finger larger than Mount Everest.

supposedly, the story is that he'd never heard of the book before & was originally making a completely different film called 'bug hunt', but near the end of pre-production some producer dropped it into his lap and told him "this is your movie now". when he read the book, he disliked it so much he didn't even bother finishing.

now if you give the guy who made robocop a book he doesn't like espousing politics he doesn't agree with and tell him to make a movie out of it, what do you think is going to happen?

I wonder if one of Hanners heros is Ellen Ripley?  

Isn't she everyone's hero?

yes. though personally, i prefer sarah connor.

[Mr_Rose]

Yeah, see "I didn't like the bits of the book Idid read so I'm going to parody the bits I made up to fill in for the stuff I didn't read" is a pathetic explanation for anything, never mind such an appalling treatment of a much-loved source.

[J]

Yeah, see "I didn't like the bits of the book Idid read so I'm going to parody the bits I made up to fill in for the stuff I didn't read" is a pathetic explanation for anything, never mind such an appalling treatment of a much-loved source.

well i'm not sure what you'd have him do given the situation. if they were wrapping up pre-production, then that means the sets, props, costumes, effects, and script were all finished or very close to it, the crew and actors were hired, and everything was scheduled to begin. given that, the only reasonable options would be to either put the whole project on hold for weeks or months while the script is completely rewritten and everything else adapted to fit, or just make the movie he was already making, with a few names changed and a few mocking shout outs to the book.

anyway, i think the movie is less a satire of the book then of american imperialism and military culture in general, just like robocop was a satire of american consumerism and corporate culture.

[Akima]

Yeah, see "I didn't like the bits of the book Idid read so I'm going to parody the bits I made up to fill in for the stuff I didn't read" is a pathetic explanation for anything, never mind such an appalling treatment of a much-loved source.

The novel Starship Troopers is probably as much hated as admired. Personally I think it's well worth reading despite the rather young-adults style lingering from Heinlein's earlier work. It is ironic though, considering how often the Bugs have been interpreted as representing Communist China (though Heinlein never said so), that his idea of civil rights and privileges arising from service to the state is very Confucian.

[Is it cold in here?]

Heinlein studied Chinese history, though that may have been after he wrote Starship Troopers.

Any objection if I split the Starship Troopers discussion into a separate thread in Enjoy?

[Kugai]

Seconded

[zmeiat_joro]

RE: Verhoeven's film

I honest to God loved it for being a mindless action flick. It led me to Heinlen's far superior book, which tempered my enthusiasm. I cannot imagine the sort of spite it takes to go out of your way to license something specifically to give it a middle finger larger than Mount Everest.

I had read the book before the film, as an even younger teenager, and wasn't very impressed. While the film was hilarious. I like most of Heinlein's other stuff more. I did miss the depiction of powered armor and the shooting them out of a spaceship stuff, which was probably the only significantly interesting thing in the novel for me. But the film more than made up for it, and I don't know if it would have worked well with the message of the film if you included powered armor, I don't think they should have included it just for the sake of it.

Em, regarding some other comments I see here, I didn't see anything particularly mocking of _America_ about it. And I'm European. I saw it as mocking totalitarianism, showing Americans how totalitarianism would look like in their culture, translating if you will to American visual and cultural tropes the underpinnings of totalitarianism, to show them what an American totalitarian regime's propaganda would look like.

NOTE: moved this here from WCT after noticing Is it cold in here?'s comment.

[Jimor]

Yeah, see "I didn't like the bits of the book Idid read so I'm going to parody the bits I made up to fill in for the stuff I didn't read" is a pathetic explanation for anything, never mind such an appalling treatment of a much-loved source.

The novel Starship Troopers is probably as much hated as admired. Personally I think it's well worth reading despite the rather young-adults style lingering from Heinlein's earlier work. It is ironic though, considering how often the Bugs have been interpreted as representing Communist China (though Heinlein never said so), that his idea of civil rights and privileges arising from service to the state is very Confucian.

Yeah, a lot of mixed views of the book, and part of that with Heinlein is always trying to separate what viewpoints he may be pushing as an author, versus viewpoints he wants to explore and put out there for the reader to examine.

A great literary response to Starship Troopers is Joe Haldeman's "Forever War." Haldeman was a Vietnam vet who felt like none of the military science fiction really captured what it was like for the grunts. Ridley Scott has optioned the book, which could be really really interesting if done right which doesn't necessarily mean adhering strictly to the book (and Haldeman has said he doesn't expect pretty much anything to reach the screen, so if elements do survive, he'll be pleasantly surprised).

[Delator]

When i was 14, I read an article in a magazine with a sneak peak at the film. I thought the model work on the ships looked good, and saw it was based on a book by some guy named Heinlein, so I went and got it from my library.

I've since read damn near everything else Heinlein ever wrote...so if Ridley Scott was trying to somehow steer me away from the authors ideas, it didn't really work. 

I did enjoy the movie though, in the same sense as Mad Cat in that I simply ignored the differences that would normally irk me and just enjoyed the ride.

It also happened to be the first R rated film I saw in theaters...long story, but it involves nefarious schemes that came to glorious success. Between the nude scenes and the gratuitous violence, I got what I came to see. 

[MamiyaOtaru]

Yeah, Paul Verhoeven, I really believe you when you claim it was supposed to have some sort of anti-facist message, as opposed to you pulling that explaination out of your rear so it made your crap film sound better.

horrible start to an interesting thread

I'll just leave this here: http://www.avclub.com/articles/starship-troopers,41966/

[Alex C]

Yeah, sorry OP, but that came across as hella dopey given that it's Verhoeven and that kind of shit is exactly what he does. Verhoeven doesn't do earnest messages, okay? He does pisstakes. His point wasn't just against fascism, per se, but also making fun of how stupidly fawning the media is in general. There's interviews with his producers that indicate that Verhoeven wanted to cast even younger people in most of the lead roles but they had to nix it given all the other shenanigans the movie was already getting up to.

FFS, the guy was responsible for Robocop and put Neil Patrick Harris in a costume that openly apes Nazi officer uniforms back when Neil Patrick Harris was still mostly known for playing Doogie Howser MD. I don't know how more unsubtle he could have been about what he was doing. Half the joke is that you seriously have to make war look that bad before people start thinking the things that your film shows is senseless and ugly.

[Alex C]

For the record though, I've never really liked Starship Troopers.

I just don't think Paul Verhoeven is an idiot given how the movie absolutely makes sense.