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Author Topic: English is weird  (Read 304101 times)

Omio

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #400 on: 11 Jul 2014, 16:53 »

Permission to post the full text of a leisurely essay I did about why one shouldn't overuse the comma? It extends precisely 1000 words. Warning, I kinda half-assed it, and brought spellcheck to its knees several times over.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #401 on: 11 Jul 2014, 22:16 »

Will it leave us commatose?
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Omio

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #402 on: 12 Jul 2014, 04:20 »

Judging by the terrible pun,  it sounds okay. Will leave it in a spoiler, though.

(click to show/hide)
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Carl-E

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #403 on: 12 Jul 2014, 11:24 »

My inner editor is retching right now. 
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #404 on: 12 Jul 2014, 12:42 »

My inner editor is retching right now.
Lemme tell you, when though I wrote it over 6 years ago, I was in one of those "MY CLASS IS FULL OF IDIOTS, READ IT AND SHUT UP!" moods. Your response is one of the desirable ones. :3
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #405 on: 12 Jul 2014, 15:50 »

I couldn't get more than a few lines into it. It reminded me of some of the winners in the annual Bulwer-Lytton contest, but without the humor.

My favorite from that contest, perhaps placed on the forum before:
Quote
"The sun oozed over the horizon, shoved aside darkness, crept along the greensward, and, with sickly fingers, pushed through the castle window, revealing the pillaged princess, hand at throat, crown asunder, gaping in frenzied horror at the sated, sodden amphibian lying beside her, disbelieving the magnitude of the frog's deception, screaming madly, "You lied!"
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #406 on: 13 Jul 2014, 03:21 »

Seriously, fuck our language it's stupid.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #407 on: 14 Jul 2014, 08:59 »

But it allows you to express that so eloquently! 
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #408 on: 14 Dec 2014, 09:46 »

Why is there so much difference between a safety clearance and a security clearance?

Why is there so much difference between a music bag and a music box?
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #409 on: 14 Dec 2014, 20:46 »

A music bag? Is that a thing?
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #410 on: 14 Dec 2014, 20:54 »

Well, bagpipes are.  There is a bag involved somewhere in there, but they sound more like an octopus is being tortured.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #411 on: 14 Dec 2014, 21:24 »

Quote
Why is there so much difference between a safety clearance and a security clearance?
I'm confused by this...
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #412 on: 15 Dec 2014, 18:58 »

A safety clearance, if I'm not mistaken, refers to a bridge over a road, and how tall a vehicle can safely pass under it.

A security clearance is being allowed to access secret documents or work in restricted areas.
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Akima

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #413 on: 15 Dec 2014, 20:28 »

A music bag? Is that a thing?
Certainly. Music bags are generally flattish cases designed to hold sheet-music.

Is "music box" standard American English for what I would call a "musical box"?
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #414 on: 15 Dec 2014, 21:13 »

Yes.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #415 on: 15 Dec 2014, 21:15 »

A music bag? Is that a thing?
Certainly. Music bags are generally flattish cases designed to hold sheet-music.

Is "music box" standard American English for what I would call a "musical box"?

Yes.

We're too lazy for all these extra letters other English speakers keep insisting on using  :-D
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #416 on: 16 Dec 2014, 05:19 »

@Akima- So a music bag isn't even a bag? :psyduck:
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #417 on: 16 Dec 2014, 06:12 »

Apparently not.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #418 on: 16 Dec 2014, 06:20 »

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #419 on: 16 Dec 2014, 15:38 »

Why is there so much difference between a doghouse and a cathouse?
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #420 on: 16 Dec 2014, 16:17 »

Causality: You end up in the doghouse after your wife finds out you've been to a cathouse.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #421 on: 08 Jan 2015, 22:25 »

Whenever I see the word "casualty" I hear "causality". 

I'm mildly dyslexic, but damn, it's one letter by one space

And a world of meaning. 
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #422 on: 08 Jan 2015, 22:36 »

I had something similar happen when I was taking a philosophy course in HS.  There was an entire chapter on "causal arguments", and I kept reading it as "casual arguments", and was wondering why it made no sense.  That was until the teacher actually reached that chapter and pronounced it correctly, and I suddenly understood.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #423 on: 14 Jan 2015, 22:35 »

Quote from: Twitter
Joshua Stanton @freekorea_us

Can I get a rewrite on this headline? 'North Koreans Walk Across Frozen River to Kill Chinese for Food'

Which reminds me of one of my least favorite idioms, in which people describe their dinner plans as "I'm eating Chinese".
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #424 on: 14 Jan 2015, 23:37 »

Or eating Italian. 

Are there other ethnic groups we like to have for dinner? 
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #425 on: 15 Jan 2015, 00:11 »

Mexican. Cuban.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #426 on: 15 Jan 2015, 04:30 »

Pretty much all of them really. Ethnic groupings have this handy ability of being able to be applied to things other than people.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #427 on: 15 Jan 2015, 07:51 »

Well it would only work for ones where the demonym is the same as the adj, that said I'm still not sure it's actually confusing, like it could work in an intentionally set up joke, but not an accidental misunderstanding.  People are countable, and food is not, so you would need an article or a number, and also it would get a plural.  Even if you avoided the word 'eat' and said "I'm having Italian" it would mean a person unless you'd set up a comparison of the person to food. (Say by waggeling your eyebrows at a friend who knows you're dating an Italian)

It could work if you used "some" because it has a dual meaning:
I'm eating some Italian for dinner.

As an amount of an uncountable thing (food)
As an expression of non-specificity (person)
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hedgie

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #428 on: 15 Jan 2015, 08:18 »

Now I'm thinking of the film "Eating Raoul".
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #429 on: 15 Jan 2015, 14:29 »

I'm eating some Italian for dinner.
Mmm... But the countability problem raises its head again, doesn't it? If you were actually a cannibal, you'd say "I'm eating some of an Italian", "I'm eating an Italian", or (if you were very hungry) "I am eating Italians. Italian without a definite or indefinite article is normally read as an adjective. "I am eating Italian" simply leaves the word "food" after "Italian" unstated but understood.

I tend to regard Chinese as an adjective. "She is Chinese" is fine, but "She is a Chinese" sounds a bit off in my ears, though I suppose it is no different from the way American is used as an adjective as well as a demonym. 我是中国人 literally means "I am China person", but depending on the context, could be translated legitimately either as "I am Chinese" or "I am a Chinese person". If you wanted to be absolutely specific about the latter meaning, you'd have to say: 我是一中国人 (the character 一 is used as an article here, equivalent to "a").
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #430 on: 15 Jan 2015, 14:32 »

With Fiva Beans and a nice Chianti?
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #431 on: 15 Jan 2015, 14:45 »

But it could also be said the same as you might say "Some idiot pulled out in front of me on the way to work" or "I wonder if I can find some mug to buy this bridge". "I'm eating some Italian" might mean "I am eating an unspecified and unknown Italian person".
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #432 on: 15 Jan 2015, 18:30 »

I tend to agree about the use of "chinese" as a demonym.  I have never said "a Chinese" always "a Chinese person"  I just wasn't sure if it was regional.  I don't really have a demonym for China...  "Chinaman" is the only one I've heard, and I'm sure not comfortable using that.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #433 on: 15 Jan 2015, 19:43 »

There's no single word demonym, just "Chinese person".
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #435 on: 11 Feb 2015, 05:46 »

The phrase "I never said he stole my money" means seven different things depending on which word is stressed. 

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #436 on: 11 Feb 2015, 06:24 »

No it doesn't, but depending on which word is stressed, you could guess the formulation of the question or statement that preceded it.

"Don't you think he should give the money he stole back?"
"How could you accuse him of stealing?"
Etcetera.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #437 on: 11 Feb 2015, 08:23 »

If you stress "I," it implies that someone else said it.  If you stress "never," then it literally means just that you never said it.  Stress on "said" implies that you never technically said it, but maybe hinted at it.  Stress "he" and it becomes "no, it wasn't him, it was that other guy."  Stressing "stole" indicates that you gave the money to him or something.  Stressing "my" says that he stole someone else's money.  And finally, stressing "money" says he stole something else. 

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #438 on: 11 Feb 2015, 08:56 »

There's a lot that can change about what the sentence implies but that does not at all change what it means:wink:
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #439 on: 11 Feb 2015, 11:40 »

I'm going to agree that it changes the meaning.  Meaning is more than just the surface value of words, it what they communicate.  By changing the stress of the words you are changing the message you are sending, and therefore the meaning of the sentence.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #440 on: 11 Feb 2015, 16:59 »

Exactly, the stress does change the meaning, I think. Words are not unique, isolated, discrete "bricks" of meaning which have the same value however used. That sentence illustrates perfectly the difference between spoken and written English. To communicate all the possible meanings of that sentence, you'd have to italicise the stressed word, or rewrite it.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #441 on: 11 Feb 2015, 17:18 »

Couldn't you argue that about sentences or lines in conversations as well? If you knew the context of that sentence, what preceded and followed it, it would be quite clear what word it is stressing. Either way it adds information that the original sentence did not contain, so I suppose that does affect the meaning as much as context does.
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #442 on: 11 Feb 2015, 17:25 »

how come when you send something by car it's called a shipment, but when you send it by ship it's called cargo?
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #443 on: 11 Feb 2015, 17:35 »

What do you say when you watch a car depart on a ship? "Look at that car go!"  :claireface:
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #444 on: 11 Feb 2015, 17:48 »

and if it's one of these?
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #445 on: 11 Feb 2015, 17:55 »

There's a lot that can change about what the sentence implies but that does not at all change what it means:wink:

Implication is meaning, though.  If someone bumps you and says "excuse me," then it's all cool.  If someone bumps you and says it like this, someone's getting punched. 

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Re: English is weird
« Reply #446 on: 11 Feb 2015, 19:43 »

and if it's one of these?

Well, at least it doesn't go at a Snails pace.    :claireface:
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #447 on: 31 Mar 2015, 23:02 »

“English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street.”   -- E. B. White
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #448 on: 01 Apr 2015, 06:07 »

I was wondering the other day how the word "drone" ever got attached to pilotless aircraft. After all, most of the bees you see flying about are not drones, but workers.
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Re: English is weird
« Reply #449 on: 01 Apr 2015, 06:47 »

I think it's closer to the more modern usage of office or industrial workers who serve to endlessly repeat actions or processes with little to no intellectual input into their work. I.e. When Smithers describes Homer Simpson as one of the drones from Sector C. Drones, being unmanned, can't take any overriding decisions not pre-programmed into them and can only do what they are told to do.
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