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Poll

So what SHOULD Pintsize do?

Do something outside, regardless of whether or not it would get him arrested.
- 2 (5%)
Take up painting.
- 0 (0%)
Robot Yoga.
- 0 (0%)
Bible Study.
- 1 (2.5%)
Work on being a better companion to Marten.
- 2 (5%)
Go with what you know - small-scale mayhem.
- 10 (25%)
Ponder the meaning of life, the universe - everything.
- 2 (5%)
Forget that and go back to wallpapering the bathroom with macro-anuses.
- 1 (2.5%)
Visit the AnthroPC zoo (aka the kitchen appliances).
- 0 (0%)
Two words: cake mix.
- 5 (12.5%)
MOAR TAI-DORA!
- 7 (17.5%)
Waffles.
- 0 (0%)
Spathe Ham.
- 0 (0%)
Just be you, Pintsize. Just be you.
- 10 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 35


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2251-2255 (13-17 August 2012) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 49522 times)

Lubricus

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Seems like Momo isn't programed with the famous Three Laws of Robotics. That is good because that creates too many loopholes but I wonder what they use to avoid dangerous behavior...

Welcome, new person!

Jeph said something the effect "It's fortunate that they like us". The ones with more prudence than Pintsize will avoid doing dangerous things because they don't want to and know better.

They may also be subject to the legal system.

They would be - wasn't it mentioned some time ago that AnthroPCs were now regarded as full members of society? I'll se if I can find the strip.

EDIT: I seem to misremember. In Jeph's comment to this strip, he explains a bit about AnthroPCs, and it looks like they might lack some basic rights.
« Last Edit: 13 Aug 2012, 01:06 by Lubricus »
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snubnose

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I am kind of surprised that Momo doesnt just apply the electric shock herself ... ? Oh well.
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Carpe Diem

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Wonder if Momo can (or will) reduce the voltage?

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Madmartigan

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Oh boy, add masochist maybe to Emily's growing list of strange? :psyduck:
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ukrayf

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Emily and Marten aren't going to get together are they
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cesium133

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Emily and Marten aren't going to get together are they
No, Emily and Momo are going to get together. And it's going to be shocking.  8-)
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Lubricus

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Emily and Marten aren't going to get together are they

Doesn't look like it, no. But who knows? Apparently not even Jeph...
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VonKleist

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  • First I lol'd. But then I serious'd.

I´m looking forward to seeing more of her. Kind of like the general idea of characters running loose inside of the creation :)

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Black Sword

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Emily and Marten aren't going to get together are they
No, Emily and Momo are going to get together. And it's going to be shocking.  8-)

Penalty for lack of "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

idontunderstand

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Penalty for spouting half-dead memes.  :mrgreen:
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LordVaughn

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And the award for Cloudcuckoolander of the Year goes to.... Emily! But seriously, it's weird how odd she is, but it's at a level where you'd almost call it adorable.
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themacnut

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Emily and Marten aren't going to get together are they

Nope, I suspect Emily may be a bit too strange for Marten's liking.

Ya get the feeling Emily might have been dropped on the head a few too many times as a kid? ;)

Or perhaps she stuck a metal fork in an electrical outlet as a toddler and has been...different ever since.

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Redball

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Or she had a sudden epiphany when Marten told her to quit it. She decided fair's fair and she deserves it.
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FunkyTuba

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Is anyone else hoping for another animated gif?
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JayJay

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Is anyone else hoping for another animated gif?

no ><
it fucks up when I'm trying to read on my mobile :~
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T

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I am kind of surprised that Momo doesnt just apply the electric shock herself ... ? Oh well.

Maybe they are progammed to not cause direct harm to humans but there is no law saying that they can't fool a human for some pain.
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Method of Madness

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Reminded me of this:

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Jeph said "absolute free will".

They have equal legal rights to humans.
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Method of Madness

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Absolute free will is debatable, since humans might not even have that.  Also is there any canon (in-comic) re: free will?
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They call me Mr. Madness.

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MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
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I can't think of anything, but I'm not the ultimate archive master.

There is, in fact, a hint to the contrary. In 1345, Faye was under the impression that Pintsize had "morality programming". She may have been mistaken.
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RyanW1019

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Don't all of us recieve "morality programming" throughout most of our early life? To some extent, it never really stops, it's just less subtle. And clearly some of us have the free will to do some pretty amoral things, so our own programming is not set in stone; or at least we're capable of ignoring it.
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themacnut

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Don't all of us recieve "morality programming" throughout most of our early life? To some extent, it never really stops, it's just less subtle. And clearly some of us have the free will to do some pretty amoral things, so our own programming is not set in stone; or at least we're capable of ignoring it.

The capability to ignore moral programming is why I'm not so quick to blame the parents for a child's, especially a teenager's, criminal behavior. We may call it programming, but we're not robots, we are able to make up our own minds about the morals we're taught. Some decide those morals are crap and do their own thing.

Also, some people never get much moral programming, or get a different set of programming than the rest of us. For example, what kind of moral code do you think a kid growing up in an inner-city family of drug dealers is going to pick up?
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Akima

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I am kind of surprised that Momo doesnt just apply the electric shock herself ... ?
Or that she needs physical contact, since a previous strip established that she could blow someone out of his shoes at a hundred metres! ZAP!!!

<rationalisation>The power needed to "jump" an lightning-bolt through air would be much greater, and perhaps less easy to control precisely, so for minor corporal punishment Momo prefers a contact-zap.</rationalisation>
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Method of Madness

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Maybe it's just more fun to trick people into it than to attack someone.
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Quote from: Polonius
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MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
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mustang6172

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If Momo really wanted to do some damage, she would show Emily the holopony she can never have.
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Method of Madness

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I don't think Momo is that cruel.
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jmucchiello

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Momo won't do it. She knows better.
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T

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Don't all of us recieve "morality programming" throughout most of our early life? To some extent, it never really stops, it's just less subtle. And clearly some of us have the free will to do some pretty amoral things, so our own programming is not set in stone; or at least we're capable of ignoring it.

The capability to ignore moral programming is why I'm not so quick to blame the parents for a child's, especially a teenager's, criminal behavior. We may call it programming, but we're not robots, we are able to make up our own minds about the morals we're taught. Some decide those morals are crap and do their own thing.

Also, some people never get much moral programming, or get a different set of programming than the rest of us. For example, what kind of moral code do you think a kid growing up in an inner-city family of drug dealers is going to pick up?
Part of the "moral programming" is not learned, we are born with it... well, at least most are.

I could give you better sources but I'm lazy so you will get just the first google result
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/05/robot-altruism/

There are many other "programs" we are born with. People aren't a mass produced equipament with a formated HD just waiting to be programmed.
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TheEvilDog

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We know Momo is one of the more "responsible" AnthroPCs in the comic, so she presumably knows there is a big difference between assaulting someone and defending yourself from harassment. As for her pinkie-shock technique, that's trickery, but its also something you see with siblings or some people, where someone says "I'm going to be kicking the air in front of me and if you get in the way it's your own fault." Emily has been warned what will happen but she is still going to try it. Again, that's Emily's own fault.

The Three Laws of QC are probably written up like this;
A robot may not permanent injury to a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm (unless its the human's own fault and the possibility of permanent or fatal injury is negligible).
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws (unless an individual is causing harm or distress to other human beings).
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T

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The Three Laws of QC are probably written up like this;
A robot may not permanent injury to a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm (unless its the human's own fault and the possibility of permanent or fatal injury is negligible).
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws (unless an individual is causing harm or distress to other human beings).

You know, that first law still can result in robots taking over the World to protect humans from harming each other... I guess Jeff never stated anything exactly because it is extremely hard to make laws without unwanted effects.
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Tova

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I would daresay, for all the discussion I've seen over months of reading these forums, that there are no "three laws of robotics" or any such similar laws in effect, because Jeph simply treats all of the A.I.s in the comic, by and large, as if they were people. So they have the same kinds of ethical frameworks as people, with all of the associated ambiguities and potential flaws.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

T

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I would daresay, for all the discussion I've seen over months of reading these forums, that there are no "three laws of robotics" or any such similar laws in effect, because Jeph simply treats all of the A.I.s in the comic, by and large, as if they were people. So they have the same kinds of ethical frameworks as people, with all of the associated ambiguities and potential flaws.

The problem is that they are sentient, but they also are products.

If you attack someone they will sue you, if your dog attack someone they will sue you, if an iPhone explodes and hurt someone they will sue Apple. If an AnthroPC hurt someone will they sue the AnthroPC, the owner or the maker?
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Valandar

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I can see Emily and Hannelore becoming good friends - which would lead to chaos beyond mortal comprehension.  :evil:
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snubnose

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Emily and Marten aren't going to get together are they
Guh.

After the black Dora-lookalike the asian Dora-lookalike ?

And she's again an airhead on top of it, too !

I dont like the idea, but I dont dare to say "no".

To think Marten was once interested in girls like Faye before ...


The Three Laws of QC are probably written up like this;
OMG can we PLEASE NOT GO THERE.

The Singularity happends, robots are sentient and dont need a set of mechanical laws to control their actions.
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T

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The Three Laws of QC are probably written up like this;
OMG can we PLEASE NOT GO THERE.

The Singularity happends, robots are sentient and dont need a set of mechanical laws to control their actions.


You know, those laws are needed exactly because Singularity happened and not the opposite.
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Tova

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You know, those laws are needed exactly because Singularity happened and not the opposite.

So you say, but I don't see any evidence that they exist. These comics aren't created by Asimov. Jeph has even said somewhere (I don't remember where) that we are "lucky" the AIs like us - which is quite a long way from saying that they are bound by rules!

If you attack someone they will sue you, if your dog attack someone they will sue you, if an iPhone explodes and hurt someone they will sue Apple. If an AnthroPC hurt someone will they sue the AnthroPC, the owner or the maker?

I don't know, and neither do you. Maybe it depends on the circumstances?

I take it from the question that you are implying that the resulting ambiguity of the answer requires that the laws exist - I disagree, and what's more, I don't even necessarily agree that it implies that they should exist.

But regardless of what I may think, I just don't see any evidence that they do exist.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

foolsguinea

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Beyond being flat-chested, do Emily and Dora actually look alike? Because I thought Padma was really clearly Bizarro-Dora, but Emily doesn't seem much like Dora at all to me.

She is sort of like Padma in that they're both "wacky." But they're not the same there either: As I recall Padma was mostly oblivious to cues, bad at reading people, stuff like that. Emily is more interested in unusual experiences and has unusual desires, and is indifferent to others' expectations and norms.

Hm. Marten is passive, Dora is anxious, Faye is PTSD, Hanners is OCD, Marigold is social anxiety/avoidant I think. Emily is funny-eccentric, while Wil is dramatic-eccentric. Pintsize is a prankster, Clinton is a socially awkward fan/enthusiast, Sven is self-destructive, Padma is oblivious.

It takes a certain something to put together characters that have this mix of neuroses and write them reasonably consistently and sympathetically, and be funny. Observation of the human condition, with both enough sympathy to like these people and enough abstraction of self to torment them, play them off each other, and generally put them through stuff.
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snubnose

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I dont get Fayes statement "Not much of a pursuit, if you ask me".


The Three Laws of QC are probably written up like this;
OMG can we PLEASE NOT GO THERE.

The Singularity happends, robots are sentient and dont need a set of mechanical laws to control their actions.


You know, those laws are needed exactly because Singularity happened and not the opposite.
Drat.

And so I fueled the discussion I tried to stop !

Assimov has written many stories about the three laws. Basically one can summarize the result as: they just dont work. Neither will probably any other set of simple mechanical laws.

Fortunately, thanks to the singularity, robots are as intelligent as people now and can follow their own common sense.
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Tova

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I think Faye said that because Dora didn't require too much chasing in the end.

And, Hannelore: go for it. Can I help?  :-P
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

WAYF

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I want to see a courtroom-based spin-off of QC now.

DORA BIANCHI: JUDGE, JURY AND SEXECUTIONER.

Or at the very least I'd like a poster with Dora and those words on it. :P
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Mr_Rose

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The Three Laws of QC are probably written up like this;
OMG can we PLEASE NOT GO THERE.

The Singularity happends, robots are sentient and dont need a set of mechanical laws to control their actions.


You know, those laws are needed exactly because Singularity happened and not the opposite.

How is it that almost no-one remembers that nearly every three laws robot story is an illustration of at least one case where the three laws have failed utterly? Asimov's Laws are a plot device, not a practical suggestion.
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Soulsynger

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That said the way Jeph is handling A.I.s in QC is probably the most comfortable one. Positive emotions (empathy, understanding, forgiveness) are always stronger and more enjoyable than negative ones. (anxiety, greed, hate)
I guess for any A.I. it would simply be logical to pursue positive human interactions (e.g. having fun with them) more than negative ones (e.g. enslaving them).

In that way, the dilemma inherent in Asimov's three laws kinda takes care of itself in QC.

...
Also I lol'd at Hanners in the last panel. She really doesn't want to do it but is bound by the shop policy. Turning the rule against the ruler must be impossibly baffling to her.
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Is it cold in here?

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Have we seen that customer before? He looks familiar.

Does Dora look younger because she's happy, or am I just imagining it?

Word Of God on AnthroPC ethics programming. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is a perfectly cromulent basis for an ethical system.

That's a really good question about liability laws. The QC world has probably tried multiple approaches. Who would write liability insurance to cover acts of Pintsize?
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Abyssalin

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Yay Hannelore's back, she will always be my favourite QC character,

And haha, i wish i had a store policy like that, hell i have business plans for the future, I am going to have a store policy like that.

And yes, I've seen that customer before, hell i thought it was Angus for a few moments then realised it's just someone who looks similar.
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TinPenguin

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I would daresay, for all the discussion I've seen over months of reading these forums, that there are no "three laws of robotics" or any such similar laws in effect, because Jeph simply treats all of the A.I.s in the comic, by and large, as if they were people. So they have the same kinds of ethical frameworks as people, with all of the associated ambiguities and potential flaws.

And of course, remember that the first thing the first AI asked for was equality.
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DSL

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There are no Three Laws in QC for the same reason there were no tribbles on the space station, or an Eagle Transporter docked thereto: They belong to different fictional universes.
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Soulsynger

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Also, Dora's comment reminded me of this comic (1946) ... a lot of refreshing changes of pace for Dora lately... lucky gal. And cute hair.
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Border Reiver

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Am I a bad person that my first reaction on reaching the punchline of today's comic was "Woo!  Wet T-shirt!"?

Then the second reaction was, "B---, its a comic..."

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Madmartigan

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Have we seen that customer before? He looks familiar.

Does Dora look younger because she's happy, or am I just imagining it?

Word Of God on AnthroPC ethics programming. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is a perfectly cromulent basis for an ethical system.

That's a really good question about liability laws. The QC world has probably tried multiple approaches. Who would write liability insurance to cover acts of Pintsize?

It's the hair style.  Dora looks sexy with it.

Well, there's the whole just "nice to be pursued" thing. :psyduck:  I'll refrain from saying more on that as it pretty much mirrors what I've been saying.  That this is the relationship for getting back in the game and not anything lasting.

That said.

HANNERS!  Perfect expression for that statement.

And it really wasn't that much of a pursuit

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JayJay

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Well, there's the whole just "nice to be pursued" thing. :psyduck:  I'll refrain from saying more on that as it pretty much mirrors what I've been saying.  That this is the relationship for getting back in the game and not anything lasting.


Dora may view it that way (or feel that way), but I'm pretty sure that Tai doesn't feel that way.
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