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[Stephen]

It will probably start a flame war and if it does I apologize but I have to say it. I have to put it out there. Can we please see some growth with Marten as a character? He was the first character introduced complaining about his life and deciding to go out and do something about it. Since then he has been the same passive aggressive mess. He's just gained the ability to go from a passive aggressive coward to a passive aggressive jerk and back again. I mean... when Tai said she was just going to go for it before Dora had a chance to psyche herself out that would have been a pretty good moment for Marten to stand up for himself and tell her to just wait one day so she isn't a neurotic mess out of respect for their friendship or at least respect for Dora. Or before that he could have just refused to tell her anything about the conversation. Not even telling her to give Dora space and letting Tai say that one of the interns told her they'd been there. Could we please start to see Marten stop being a spineless jellyfish instead of him being a device to move the storyline along? At this point I'd rather you switch him with Tidus from FFX. They're both secondary characters and both annoying but at least Tidus had SOME growth along the way. I considered myself a Marten fan but... I'd prefer Tidus at this point. That's how bad this character has gotten. Write him out of the story for a year or something. Send him on a trip to find himself like Captain America when a Republican is in office. Do something with him, please.

[Is it cold in here?]

Restarting the band is a step in the right direction for him.

Notice, though, that it's only in regard to his own welfare that Marten is passive. Look how he defended Hannelore when Clinton was in full creep mode.

[Boxilar]

Ah yes. The old "Marten is a spineless jellyfish/coward/manatee" post dumped completely off topic in an unrelated thread. 

He has grown though. People don't change overnight. He's slowly taking on more responsibility at his job. He called Padma and checked up on her. He also hit on Lt. Potter. He went down in flames, but he took the shot.

Marten is over Dora. He's done and moved on. (Plus the hot Padma sexings probably helped him put things in perspective) As Is It Cold points out, one of Marten's overall motivating factors is to see his friends happy.

I don't know if I could be as chill as Marten seems to be about an ex getting together with a friend, but apparently Marten is a bigger man than me. He's not being a jealous douche and doesn't think he owns another human being just cause they were screwing for awhile.

[Tova]

I think Marten has developed slowly, and I expect that Jeph will give Marten some more substantial character development as the comic continues, but he won't become a different person overnight.

No flame war from me. Sorry. 

Edit: My post feels a bit redundant after Boxilar's post, but meh.

Another edit: Come to think of it, the post does appear to be apropros of nothing whatsoever. Could I ask what triggered it? Or is it just a gradual buildup of frustration? Marten is not really the focus of the current plot arc, so I don't expect anything to happen with regards to him for a bit.

[pwhodges]

(I split this out from the WCDT where it has no relevance, seeing as Marten's not even around.)

It will probably start a flame war

I hope you don't see the fact that we don't do flame wars here any more as a challenge - there's a word for that behaviour...

[pwhodges]

Notice, though, that it's only in regard to his own welfare that Marten is passive. Look how he defended Hannelore when Clinton was in full creep mode.

He defended his honour pretty effectively after the monk incident.

[Tova]

Maybe someone could link to the latest incident where Marten (at least allegedly) was "a spineless jellyfish"? It would give us something concrete to discuss. It would certainly move the thread along.

If you're going to pull out a comic where Marten is being fine with Tai and Dora getting together, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that this is an example of Marten being spineless. Just to get that out there ahead of time.

I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess is that the continued existence of Tai and Dora dating is what has driven OP to write what seems to be a totally out-of-left-field complaint. Seriously, just a guess. I want to know if I'm right.

[Mr_Rose]

I'm with Tova on this; I simply can't understand why Marten failing to turn into a possessive, jealous arse over the prospect of an ex getting a new SO makes him “spineless” but then so much of what one is ‘supposed’ to do when you break up with someone sounds more like ‘behave like a spoiled brat when their toys are taken away’ than anything else, to me.

[VonKleist]

Oooh I would rather
be a little catfish
So I could swim way down
in the Seeea-ee
I would have some goodlookin' women
put out lines for me


Ohhh, I´m sorry.. I thought this thread-title was about singing the same old blues again.

[Is it cold in here?]

Marten has a lot to overcome to learn to be assertive. Consider his mother's last visit.

[Tova]

Lots of people don't have skills in assertiveness.
There's a gulf between that and being a "spineless jellyfish", though.

[Boxilar]

Marten has a lot to overcome to learn to be assertive. Consider his mother's last visit.

Fair enough. But consider, this was the beginning of Marten's post breakup development. His mother showed up two days after the breakup  and the day after he got blitzed out of his skull. That was probably one of the lowest points in his life. Certainly that we've witnessed.

He HAS improved since then. Like most folks, he likely has the huge conditioned response most of us have to obey our parents. I agree that it is something he needs to work on. If he does get more assertive where his mother is concerned, it'll be something he deals with down the road when he develops more confidence in other parts of his life.

[Is it cold in here?]

He needs the band. He needs to practice leadership, and the band is the perfect place to do it. He needs a success in his life, and building a good band would be the best kind of success, the kind that comes from focused work. A "good band" means a skilled one: that's a success no matter how few shows they do. They have a chance now that Nat is gone.

[Hinterfiend]

People keep saying him being upset over the Dora/Tai situation would make him either jealous, possessive or both. I fail to see the reasoning behind either of those assessments. It's a perfectly normal thing to not be ok with a ex dating someone you have to see on a regular basis so soon after you're broken up. It has nothing to do with jealousy, it has everything to do with not rubbing salt in a fresh open wound. Especially is that close someone is in a position of authority over you and VERY prone to over-sharing.

[Boxilar]

He needs the band. He needs to practice leadership, and the band is the perfect place to do it. He needs a success in his life, and building a good band would be the best kind of success, the kind that comes from focused work. A "good band" means a skilled one: that's a success no matter how few shows they do. They have a chance now that Nat is gone.

I agree. From what we've seen, his big hurdle seems to be confidence in his songwriting. I wonder if Sven would be interested in helping out, or even joining the band. He seems to have reached a personal crisis in that, while he is financially successful, he is unsatisfied artisticlly. Marten could gain confidence and learn from Sven about dealing with the music industry, and Sven could learn from Marten how not to be a douche. And to enjoy music for the sake of music.  Just speculating, not trying to dictate to Jeph on where his story should go. I'll enjoy the ride where ever it goes.

[Mr_Rose]

What's this "so soon" bit people keep coming up with? How soon is soon? Marten's had enough time to mope, get back on an even keel, get embroiled in a doomed relationship with not!Dora, and go to space to hit on space!Faye since the breakup; not counting any time skips that's a couple months, easy. Meanwhile, Dora has been in therapy, gone on a date with her new business partner, dropped the ‘we're better off friends’ bomb on him, gone back to therapy, and just now gotten to a date with Tai.

[Carl-E]

We used to speculate about the passage of comic time relative to real time.  Cleqrly things move more slowly in comic time with the exception of time skips. 

It's been well over 400 strips since the breakup - nearly two years, real time.  Now, that's not nearly as long in comic time, but it has been a while.  He may not be completely over the breakup (who ever is?), but certainly he's able to cope and move on.  He's demonstrated this quite well, as the previous poster mentioned.   

[idontunderstand]

He needs the band. He needs to practice leadership, and the band is the perfect place to do it. He needs a success in his life, and building a good band would be the best kind of success, the kind that comes from focused work. A "good band" means a skilled one: that's a success no matter how few shows they do. They have a chance now that Nat is gone.

Why exactly does he need to practice leadership? I mean, how would that help his situation?

[Is it cold in here?]

It's a skill that any healthy human needs to be able to deploy at least occasionally and which would open up better jobs to him. It doesn't seem to be among his talents now.

[Redball]

How can he wrangle three interns without learning at least a little about leadership?

[idontunderstand]

Better jobs. Yeah, could be..

[foolsguinea]

He defended his honour pretty effectively after the monk incident.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=696
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=697

[Madmartigan]

He defended his honour pretty effectively after the monk incident.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=696
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=697

Goddammit, so much cool shit happened when Dora/Marten were together.   I laughed my ass off in the last panel when I first read it.

Now I'm sad again. Remembering how good Dora/Marten were.

[Tova]

It has nothing to do with jealousy, it has everything to do with not rubbing salt in a fresh open wound.

It should be evident that the wound has healed.

At least Marten's has. Maybe not everyone else's...

[DSL]

Good, this is good. Marten has expressed a career goal.

[jwhouk]

Good, this is good. Marten has expressed a career goal.

(golf clap)

Well played, sir, well played.

[Madmartigan]

I can see Marten gardening and meeting a hot gardner girl.

Though, some will claim his passivity will lead to his plants dying.

[DSL]

HOT GARDENER GIRL: "I'm only interested in guys who can bench press a wheelbarrow full of mulch. And seriously, call that Padma chick again."

[DSL]

It's a skill that any healthy human needs to be able to deploy at least occasionally and which would open up better jobs to him. It doesn't seem to be among his talents now.

At the very least, it postpones the day when you have to call some gahdam know-nothing young punk "boss."

[TinPenguin]

In my experience, the hot girls are less likely to be gardeners as passers-through the garden you are tending. And they tend to ignore you, dirty labourer that you are.

[Madmartigan]

In my experience, the hot girls are less likely to be gardeners as passers-through the garden you are tending. And they tend to ignore you, dirty labourer that you are.

You are going to the wrong gardens then my friend.  My sincere apologies.

[DSL]

I heard of a guy who wasn't ignored in the garden. He took some ribbing for it; she even offered an apple. Man, the trouble that caused. Or so I read once.