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Author Topic: There oughta be a law!  (Read 106658 times)

pwhodges

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #100 on: 20 Oct 2012, 12:05 »

If the extra letter is "i", then no.

Or "j" (my degree is in engineering).

(For those that don't know, electrical engineers use "i" for current, so use "j" for sqrt(-1) instead.)
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #101 on: 20 Oct 2012, 12:29 »

The only thing I can add to the discussion about the spelling of math(s) is that I can only pronounce it like "mass". If I try to enunciate it comes out "mats".

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #102 on: 20 Oct 2012, 12:38 »

A few years ago, before Oxford uni reorganised all its email addresses to get rid of a distinction between long and short forms (my department had clinical-pharmacology.oxford.ac.uk and clinpharm.ox.ac.uk, for instance), the long and short forms for the mathematics department were math.oxford.ac.uk and maths.ox.ac.uk!
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #103 on: 20 Oct 2012, 13:07 »

I pronounce it maffs, which might be easier to say?
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #104 on: 20 Oct 2012, 13:20 »

I say math and write maths.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #105 on: 20 Oct 2012, 13:37 »

I pronounce it maffs, which might be easier to say?

I used to do that but I'd get heavily mocked for it. Rather irritating because I'm from an area where it's not uncommon for it to be said that way. It's just that my accent isn't common.

TOBAL that if you're talking to someone with an unfamiliar accent, I am personally grand with it if you ask something to the effect of, "Where are you from?" (Not that everyone is okay with that question, so mind that.) However when I answer, "I'm from here." it is annoying to say, "Well, where are your parents from?" or even worse, "No. You can't be." and then when I go on to say I've lived here all my life, as in this one town, it is not okay for you to argue with me that I must be lying or have some kind of foreign aspect to my family line.

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #106 on: 20 Oct 2012, 13:42 »

maths.ox.ac.uk!

This is hilarious
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #107 on: 20 Oct 2012, 14:12 »

I pronounce it maffs, which might be easier to say?

TOBAL that if you're talking to someone with an unfamiliar accent, I am personally grand with it if you ask something to the effect of, "Where are you from?" (Not that everyone is okay with that question, so mind that.) However when I answer, "I'm from here." it is annoying to say, "Well, where are your parents from?" or even worse, "No. You can't be." and then when I go on to say I've lived here all my life, as in this one town, it is not okay for you to argue with me that I must be lying or have some kind of foreign aspect to my family line.

Would it be appropriate to ask you where your accent comes from, then?
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #108 on: 20 Oct 2012, 14:38 »

TOBAL about people who derail threads with Maths! ;)
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #109 on: 20 Oct 2012, 14:46 »

Would it be appropriate to ask you where your accent comes from, then?

Sort of. It's a fair enough question but my genuine answer is that I don't know. I'm told my accent is American, sometimes English, even though I've lived in the same Northern Irish town all my life and both my parents and one brother are Irish, my other brother was also born in this same town. There's no environmental reason I can see why my accent is so different compared to the rest of my family. I use all the same terminology and local slang as them.

I'm not that bothered by the question itself, it's the existence of follow up questions that bug me. It's almost always the exact same discussion when I meet a new person and it gets frustrating.

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #110 on: 20 Oct 2012, 15:16 »

My friend speaks with an accent that most people assume is American. She's Scottish, part Irish, lives in England and occasionally Germany. No Americans in sight.

TOBAL against people using toilet paper to dry their hands - we keep running out by Sunday lunchtime.

TOBAL also against leaving pubic hairs on the toilet seat.
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Redball

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #111 on: 20 Oct 2012, 15:23 »

TOBAL about people who derail threads with Maths! ;)
Would lack of intent be exculpatory? I was making what I thought was a joke about an extra letter added to "math."

And after a couple of years overseas in the 60s, I now ask visitors, "Where is your native place?" Seems more polite than "Where're you from?" Place and accent became a little confusing when talking to Barmymoo, though 'enry 'iggins would have sorted it in a second.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #112 on: 20 Oct 2012, 15:49 »

I have that problem - I'm not really "from" anywhere.  I never spent more than 4 years in any one state, except Indiana (15 years of college) and now central PA, where I moved in '95.  But my accent was pretty well set by college.  A mish-mash of Jersey, Ohio, upstate NY, and MD. 

So yeah, pretty unidentifiable. 

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #113 on: 20 Oct 2012, 16:27 »

I like to try and guess the accents, when I encounter them. I live in a city, but it's not a large city by any means, so I guess it seems a bit more interesting when we get people into the store that have a different accent. One family that comes in, the mother is from Scotland, and she was tickled pink that I could distinguish it - apparently it was often confused for Irish.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #114 on: 20 Oct 2012, 16:33 »

TOBAL also against leaving pubic hairs on the toilet seat.
I wouldn't make a law against that specifically because there are a LOT of worse things you can leave on a toilet seat, and almost all of them are worse than little strands of lifeless keratin.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #115 on: 20 Oct 2012, 16:42 »

Accents: I've spent most of my life in Michigan, minus a couple of years in India, three in the Army, though stateside, and four years in high school outside NYC. For years, back in Michigan, I was flattered when someone asked if I was from New York. I think I must have dropped R's, maybe as an affectation. It apparently ended; maybe from embarrassment. Later on, in choir, our director chastised us collectively for our Michigan aaaaan sound. It helps a singer to walk away from the chorus and listen. When I did, that "aaaa" sounded awful. Other than that, I have no accent, none at all.

Pubic hair: Curly little strands of lifeless keratin don't have little things clinging on for dear life?
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #116 on: 20 Oct 2012, 17:48 »

Pubic hair: Curly little strands of lifeless keratin don't have little things clinging on for dear life?

Googling: Apparently not. Seems that nothing can be transmitted via toilet seat or at least it's entirely unlikely.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #117 on: 20 Oct 2012, 17:59 »

Re: accents - It is completely possible to live somewhere and have an accent that is different from most of the people in the area! I have a friend who is from a small town in Texas and you'd think she'd never been to the south in her life based on her accent. Also her dad has one, but she and her sister don't really.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #118 on: 20 Oct 2012, 18:47 »

Re: accents - It is completely possible to live somewhere and have an accent that is different from most of the people in the area! I have a friend who is from a small town in Texas and you'd think she'd never been to the south in her life based on her accent. Also her dad has one, but she and her sister don't really.
Anyone care to speculate on how that happens?

Seems to me that if accents are the result of listening to those around you speaking, the "absence" of one, i.e., speaking with a different accent than those around you, must be the result of television or listening to another's speech and wanting to imitate it.

I might have related this in the forum: 2-3 years after high school in NY, I was stationed in South Dakota. I came home to White Plains for a week and dated a cute girl from the Bronx every night I was home. I went back to Rapid City with an accent I hadn't had when I left. It was gone in 48 hours. I was kind of sorry to see it go. Never saw it or the girl again.

It's my belief that U.S. television is gradually eroding language differences in the U.S..
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2012, 18:52 by Redball »
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #119 on: 20 Oct 2012, 19:22 »

One of my wife's friends suggested a law that whenever Clancy fans are caught talking about war as if it were a video game, they get drafted.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #120 on: 20 Oct 2012, 19:38 »

I'd administer the oath.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #121 on: 20 Oct 2012, 21:15 »

TOBAL allowing people to throw bricks and other sharp and dangerous objects at moronic teenagers screaming their heads off outside at 5am.

Not funny in the slightest.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #122 on: 20 Oct 2012, 21:16 »

Just pretend that you live on a farm and that they are roosters.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #123 on: 20 Oct 2012, 21:37 »

But you can throw things at roosters...
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #124 on: 20 Oct 2012, 21:39 »

It doesn't really help, though.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #125 on: 21 Oct 2012, 00:29 »

TOBAL also against leaving pubic hairs on the toilet seat.
I wouldn't make a law against that specifically because there are a LOT of worse things you can leave on a toilet seat, and almost all of them are worse than little strands of lifeless keratin.

That is a good point. Let me alter it.

TOBAL that you clean the toilet seat after use if you leave anything on it.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #126 on: 21 Oct 2012, 07:30 »

I don't really have an accent at this point. My mom and sister have sort of a Bawlmer (Baltimore) accent, but I've actually tried hard not to pick that up. I was also in speech therapy as a child which changed how I say things.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #127 on: 21 Oct 2012, 18:01 »

Generally, UK and former colonies use "maths", while US (and Canada, it rubs off) use "math"
Both the USA (or at least parts of it) and Canada are former colonies. I say "maths".

Everyone has an accent. I speak English with what I am sure an American would regard as an Australian accent, and Chinese with a Shanghai accent, both modified by deliberate training towards "standard educated" pronunciation. In China, strangers in Beijing think I come from Shanghai, while in Shanghai they often think I come from Beijing (my mother is a Beijinger, and Beijing dialect is the basis of Standard Chinese pronunciation), or sometimes Wuhan for some strange reason.

Like some latter-day Eliza Doolittle, I went to what were called "accent reduction" lessons as part of my ESL education. How far a hypothetical Henry Higgins would be able to identify any remaining Chinese influence on my English speech, I do not know. I have travelled to a number of regions of the USA (though not Baltimore as yet :-)), and nobody seems to have any trouble understanding me, which is the main thing.

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« Last Edit: 21 Oct 2012, 18:30 by Akima »
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #128 on: 21 Oct 2012, 18:43 »

Yes, I guess I should say that I do not have a strong accent - someone might be able to place me as coming from the east coast of the US, but they couldn't get much more specific.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #129 on: 21 Oct 2012, 19:07 »

Re: accent reduction

I originally met my friend Huiming as her English tutor.  She could read and write English quite well, we worked on some grammar things, and some vocabulary, mostly nonstandard, but common words and uses (I taught her gonna, and Ima, for example). But a large part of what we did was reducing her very strong accent so that more people could easily understand her.  I was a bit self-conscience of that task.  I was helping her to change her accent to mirror mine, and while that was fine for the big tasks, like helping her hear the difference between 's' and 'th' and enunciate them better, there were some words and sounds that I don't have standard pronunciation on.  As I have said I have a nasal AAAHH sound for many 'o' sounds and 'a' sounds get pushed back in the mouth as well.  When she said my name it sounded a bit like 'Keht' to me, but I was aware that my hearing of an pronunciation of that sound differed, in the opposite direction from hers, from standard American pronunciation.  I never corrected her because she was still easy enough to understand, and I would have to standardize my own accent before I would really be any help. 

Related, my father had a coworker who learned Russian in college.  He had a professor who was a major stickler for pronunciation and did lots of drills in class to help them speak well.  There was a situation at work where they needed someone who spoke Russian to help someone, and he volunteered.  At the end of the conversation he was so happy when the person asked "how long have you lived in the US?" until when he explained he was born here and took Russian in college she replied, shocked "but you have such a strong Polish accent!" :psyduck:
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #130 on: 21 Oct 2012, 19:20 »

It's not surprising if his professor was Polish, especially if he was the type to say that his pronunciation was the right way.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #131 on: 22 Oct 2012, 00:27 »

I've been told that I have excellent pronunciation in speaking Japanese, but I'm always paranoid that they're just being polite  :psyduck:
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #132 on: 22 Oct 2012, 00:27 »

I took a course and learned RP English and achieved a pretty good level of "British" pronunciation. Then I realized everyone I talked to liked my Swedish accent better so I stuck with that instead..
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #133 on: 22 Oct 2012, 00:28 »

(and Canada, it rubs off)

I wish. Canada has a gorgeous woman factory somewhere, I swear.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #134 on: 22 Oct 2012, 08:07 »

Accent-wise, I've been told I sound like Joe Mantegna, that is to say, a strong Chicago accent, which is quite odd because I have no immediate American relatives. What happened was I had a bad speech impediment when I was about 5 or 6, so I went to a speech therapist, who was American. And around that age, I had a habit of mimicking people. And because I mimicked her accent for about 6 months or so, I've ended sounding like I'm from Chicago.

Which I prefer to be honest, because the typical Cork accent is actually fairly high and nasal sounding.

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #135 on: 22 Oct 2012, 08:32 »

There oughta be a law against entertainment media adding sound effects to things that should be relatively, or completely, silent. I don't just mean 'funniest home videos' boinks and sproings - although they are the worst offender - I'm also talking about adding a sound to holstering a gun, opening a door, drawing a sword, stabbing someone who's wearing no armour whatsoever, or, worst of all, adding the sound of a crow when on the screen there's a blackbird.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #136 on: 22 Oct 2012, 08:51 »

The crow is off screen. He's displeased that his part was given to the blackbird and wouldn't stop interrupting.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #137 on: 22 Oct 2012, 10:06 »

I agree if the media is live-action. Although if things that should be silent are always left silent in animation, the scene sounds very empty. Things like doors opening or mundane sound effects can be left silent but anything dramatic needs some kind of UMPH sound other than dialogue/voice, even if it's a swell in the music.
The crow thing is just laziness to research the right sound.

TOBAL against people letting their kids run around a supermarket by themselves.

This. So hard. Especially if the parent's defence is, "They don't know any better!" when the child is toddler or older, therefore old enough to be taught right and wrong, or at least, "Stay by my side."

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #138 on: 22 Oct 2012, 10:10 »

Almost anything that includes ferrets has the wrong sound for them. I've heard them purring like a cat and chittering like uh... something that's not a ferret. They dook, damn it!
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #139 on: 22 Oct 2012, 12:08 »

Usually right before they try to take your throat out. Or right before they take a nap. Whichever comes first.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #140 on: 22 Oct 2012, 13:56 »

There oughta be a law against people using the word "hip" to mean cool or modern. I'm not against using old-fashioned terminology in general, but I am against using old-fashioned terms to call something new and exciting.  It's not the '50s anymore.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #141 on: 25 Oct 2012, 17:53 »

Quietly chewing should be mandatory. There are few things more offputting or disgusting to me than hearing someone eating from across the room.
In Singapore, it's even stricter than that. Chewing gum is completely illegal except for medical use, on the order of a physician. Kinda like medical marijuana in the U.S.

TOBAL stating that children under 12 (arbitrary age) have a curfew, and if their parents are caught yanking them around Walmart or somewhere at 11pm, the parents will be fined. And publicly ridiculed.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #142 on: 25 Oct 2012, 18:57 »

What's funny is that curfews don't usually apply if the parent is with their kid, at least I think.  Also...what do you mean medical use?  In what sense is chewing gum medicinal?
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Bluesummers

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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #143 on: 25 Oct 2012, 19:10 »

Apparently (according to wikipedia, etc) Chewing Gum may be used as a type of dental therapy...I don't quite understand the particulars.

The law originated because EVERYTHING in Singapore (it IS a pretty small country) was getting gummed up, from pay phones to elevator buttons to fire alarms. It was much MUCH more of a problem than it is in the U.S.

TOBAL against slow drivers in the fast lane. I swear to God almighty. If there is a traffic jam and I am in the passing lane, stuck there, I do NOT want to see the far right lane cruising steadily along unless there was a goddamn car fire in the left lane up ahead. Normal hustle-bustle traffic is NOT supposed to fuck over the people who use the roads properly (I drive about 250 miles a day for work...it gets to me).
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #144 on: 25 Oct 2012, 20:34 »

Someone who has problems with a dry mouth (a hazard for dental health) might chew gum to encourage salivation.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #145 on: 25 Oct 2012, 20:46 »

Like some latter-day Eliza Doolittle, I went to what were called "accent reduction" lessons as part of my ESL education. How far a hypothetical Henry Higgins would be able to identify any remaining Chinese influence on my English speech, I do not know. I have travelled to a number of regions of the USA (though not Baltimore as yet :-)), and nobody seems to have any trouble understanding me, which is the main thing.

If you had a detectable non-Australian accent, doesn't that excuse the people who complimented you on your English, if they could tell it was ESL?
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #146 on: 26 Oct 2012, 16:20 »

If there is a traffic jam and I am in the passing lane, stuck there, I do NOT want to see the far right lane cruising steadily along unless there was a goddamn car fire in the left lane up ahead. Normal hustle-bustle traffic is NOT supposed to fuck over the people who use the roads properly (I drive about 250 miles a day for work...it gets to me).

I have pontificated here before about the causes of traffic jams, but I will make a short point.  First, traffic jams spread backwards, at a pretty predictable rate and take much longer to disperse than they take to form.  When an accident has cleared up and all traces of it are gone, the traffic jam it caused will remain trailing backwards from that site for some time, leading people to be confused about what the cause was int he first place.  Also the cause need not even be an accident, just something that caused everyone to suddenly slow way down or stop.  Animals in the road, a single construction worker, one erratic driver.. things which will be even more undetectable to those suck a mile behind and 45 minutes later.   Second, the main cause of spontaneous traffic jams, and a contributing factor to the spread and longevity of ones with clear causes, is impatient drivers driving poorly in traffic jams.  If you hit your breaks, so do the 4 cars behind you, who don't know how hard they have to hit them and are likely to slow a little more and a little more suddenly than you, particularly if they were following too close, which it is likely in a high volume traffic situation they were.  The best tactic in a traffic jam is to drive smoothly and slowly, to not keep changing lanes because "that one it moving a bit faster now, no wait the one I was in is better back to it" Changing lanes requires the people in your new lane to slow down/stop to let you in and that disruption to their flow will ripple back making their lane slower behind you.  If the car in front of you speeds up suddenly, you speed up slowly, allowing a gap to form so that when they slam on their breaks, as they will, you can maintain your smooth slow speed, preventing, or at least minimizing their stop from chaining back.  Also, it is better for your blood pressure and anxiety, to just let go and drive slow.  Which rhymes so it ought to be in a bad PSA.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #147 on: 26 Oct 2012, 19:29 »

If you had a detectable non-Australian accent, doesn't that excuse the people who complimented you on your English, if they could tell it was ESL?
It might, but I'd be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt if I didn't suspect that their reaction had more to do with how I look than how I sound. I like to think that my English is good now, but I have sometimes wondered if it still projects otherness, at least at a subliminal level. No stranger has ever made such a remark after talking to me only on the phone as <my "English" name>, but someone who had never met me might feel it was not socially appropriate anyway, so that is hardly decisive. Short of wearing some Mission Impossible-style "white girl" disguise, it is difficult to separate people's reaction to my spoken English from their recognition of my ethnic appearance.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #148 on: 26 Oct 2012, 20:42 »

That's significant.

Traffic jams: it's impossible to maintain the recommended distance from the car in front, but the closer everyone comes to that, the more stable the traffic flow is.
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Re: There oughta be a law!
« Reply #149 on: 26 Oct 2012, 21:50 »

Traffic jams: it's impossible to maintain the recommended distance from the car in front, but the closer everyone comes to that, the more stable the traffic flow is.
There have been closed-course tests on cars networked together, each keeping track of the distance from the one in front of it. They move as a beautiful synchronous convoy.

Now could we only tear up every road in America and put in RFID transmitters every 50 feet so that traffic jams would be a thing of the past? "Yes We Can!" (I'm looking at you, Congress. Get this on the budget. NOW.)
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