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Author Topic: 2012 Election  (Read 14531 times)

Carl-E

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #150 on: 15 Nov 2012, 15:37 »

This is reminding me of some of the anecdotes in the abortion thread about the people who define themselves as pro life (because they think they're anti-abortion) without realizing that this means they want the option to be taken away. 

It would be nice if, before taking a position on an issue, people would actually look into what those positions mean. 



I know, that would require work and thought...
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #151 on: 15 Nov 2012, 18:19 »

The problem isn't just that she's racist because she used the N word, she used it and hoped he would be murdered. GRR. YOU ARE A RACIST, YOU ARE JUST ASHAMED THE PUBLIC FOUND OUT.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #152 on: 15 Nov 2012, 18:40 »

YOU ARE JUST ASHAMED THE PUBLIC FOUND OUT.

THIS!  YES definitely this!
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #153 on: 15 Nov 2012, 19:33 »

On the other hand if they're deterred into silence then we don't know how many of them there are or how hard to work to counter them.

Also not convinced that canceling her health insurance is a proportionate response.

Not that I would willingly have her on my payroll.
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Bluesummers

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #154 on: 15 Nov 2012, 20:04 »

their apologists trot out excuses such as "You don't know that they're racist, they might just be ignorant!"

That's just terrible...after all, racism is ignorance and hate, all in one.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #155 on: 15 Nov 2012, 20:12 »

As horrible as she is, I hope she's not jailed. Hoping someone gets killed is not a direct threat and treating it as such would create a dangerous precedent.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #156 on: 15 Nov 2012, 21:14 »

As far as I can gather, she just got fired from her job. People don't go to jail for saying something like that, because it's still protected speech unless it can clearly be construed as a threat. And you can bet Gloria Allred will jump on that like a hobo on a ham sandwich, if they try to prosecute.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #157 on: 15 Nov 2012, 21:35 »

Also not convinced that canceling her health insurance is a proportionate response.
Connecting health care to employment is just a bad idea all round.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #158 on: 15 Nov 2012, 22:02 »

For many reasons.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #159 on: 15 Nov 2012, 23:40 »

"If you're not healthy enough to work, why should you get any help to get better so that you can work? What do you think this is, Russia?!"

Aaaand that's why I support socialized healthcare. That, and Social Security is a bunch of asshats. I know firsthand.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #160 on: 16 Nov 2012, 04:52 »

Good thing "Obamacare" prevents her next insurer from discriminating against her for gaps in coverage.  And if she just hangs in there another year and a half "Obamacare" will subsidize her health insurance so she can afford it independent of her job. 
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #161 on: 16 Nov 2012, 04:58 »

Oh no! The socialist commie black man will be interferin' with her health care, whether she likes it or not!
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #162 on: 16 Nov 2012, 08:52 »

There's an iconic picture of a Tea Party protester holding a sign warning the government not to get involved with Medicare.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #163 on: 16 Nov 2012, 11:43 »

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #164 on: 16 Nov 2012, 19:24 »

That one really bothers me.  His opponent conceded well before all the votes were counted, not realizing how many were unaccounted for.  And now it looks like they're not even going to bother looking at them.  There were so many irregularities and some blatant voter suppression in that county that it's sickening. 

And no one's going to do anything about it now.  I think there may be a lawsuit in the works, but that could take years and most likely won't go anywhere anyway. 
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #165 on: 16 Nov 2012, 19:27 »

...What's Arizona's rules for recalling elected officials, I wonder?
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #166 on: 16 Nov 2012, 20:00 »

We have had it happen before.  The fact is, the same group was looking at recalling the Governor here as well - and I think I may need to talk with some friends, and trying to nudge them into going after Joe.

Something really needs to be done, because this motherfucker has lost his goddamned mind.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #167 on: 16 Nov 2012, 20:13 »

The rules for a state office may well be different from whatever the county rules are.  I only hope somebody does something - Sherriff's deputies shouldn't be running around chasing questionable people with automatic weapons. 
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2012 Election
« Reply #168 on: 17 Nov 2012, 01:18 »

I looked it up, especially after remembering Meachem. It's pretty straightforward - go to place where you would apply to run for position; get papers promising signatures; go out and get signatures equal to 25% of last election total votes cast. After that, a recall election is called.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #169 on: 17 Nov 2012, 12:38 »

That's the thing.  You can grow up and know your parents are terrible racists, and not become one.  It is clearly possible, or how have we gotten here today?

It's not about how far we've come or how things have changed since our parents were children, it's about how much farther we have to go. (And sometimes, kids don't realize that their parents are racist and then they act in the same way as their parents, not really knowing why what they're doing is wrong.)

My point was not that we don't have a long way to go, but that is is clearly possible for change to happen and for people to have beliefs that differ from those of their parents.  And that the way we as a society drive that change in opinions is by publicly and vocally calling people out for their bullshit.

I am absolutely fine with these kids having the spotlight shined on them and having to defend their opinions.  If you make a public statement, you are accepting public discourse on your statement.  If in fact these kids were raised to be racist and are unaware that there is something wrong with that, well they are going to find out most of us think there is something wrong with it.  These are not 8 year olds who are using a slur that their dad uses because they don't really understand what it means. These are teenagers who are about to enter society as adults.  These are people who feel qualified to enter the public debate about politics.  They have had plenty of exposure to other opinions, and are old enough to know that parents are fallible and that they need to develop their own opinions.  I doubt any 17 year old shares all the beliefs of their parents, because they are old enough to make their own choices. 

Like I said, I think in most cases the school is not in a position to do anything about the tweets.  Students do have freedom of speech, and as agents of the state public schools have no business telling them what they can and cannot say outside of school.  Forced diversity training is unlikely to have much of an effect, because you would have to want to change your mind to not approach it as some stupid 'PC' thing you were forced to do because you are so persecuted in modern America for being white, bloo bloo...

But one thing that makes a lot of people change their behavior is understanding that most of your peers don't think your behavior is ok.  Many people who live in racist communities and say racist things do so because it is popular to do so.  It is normal in some places and so there is little social risk in doing so.  The point of these shaming campaigns is to make there be a high social risk of doing so online.  If we can change the perception of the social space of Twitter, for example, to be one in which it is not popular to be racist, and posting racist tweets violates the social norm of the community, then people who are live in places where it is the norm, will be forced to think about their behavior in both situations.  It is not about preventing people from stating their opinions, people can still choose to violate the no racism norm, but if they want to do so they will have to be prepared for social sanctions.

On a related note, a Tumblr has appeared:
http://hellothereracists.tumblr.com/

Edit:
Also as a note for people concerned that these teens won't be able to get into college or find a job after this exposure, anyone with half a brain, who actually realized they were wrong could write their admission essay about this experience and how they hadn't thought about their actions, but that the exposure made them re-assess their opinions and now they now realize both the impact fo their words and all the things they can gain by participating in a divers society.  That shit writes its self. 
Ditto for a "tell me about a mistake you have made" question at an interview.
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2012, 12:46 by Papersatan »
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #170 on: 18 Nov 2012, 04:26 »

I think the schools can do something about the tweets, indirectly. Rather than any stupid forced political correctness course, which as Kat points out would not be useful at all and probably would reinforce the racist beliefs, schools could respond by tackling the issue of critical thought and developing one's own opinions on something. It doesn't have to be a controversial topic - in fact, for learning how to think it's probably better to choose something that people aren't already strongly leaning in one direction or the other over - but helping people reason logically and showing them how to assess their own conclusions is an important first step in bringing them to realise their mistakes. It's basic teaching philosophy, right? Don't just tell them the answer, help them to figure out how to find it themselves.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #171 on: 18 Nov 2012, 08:39 »

<mod>The post this refers to is now in the Teaching Critical Thinking thread</mod>

The GOP is pretty much a comic book villain organization, no joke. They are House Harkonen.
« Last Edit: 18 Nov 2012, 16:46 by pwhodges »
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BeoPuppy

Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #172 on: 18 Nov 2012, 09:57 »

The GOP nomination is pretty much a comic book villain organization, no joke. They are House Harkonen.
Mitt = Vladimir?
Ryan = ... Feyd Rautha??
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ackblom12

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #173 on: 18 Nov 2012, 10:05 »

Nooooooo now I'm imagining Ryan in this:

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #174 on: 18 Nov 2012, 20:25 »

Is...is that Sting?

Oh My God it is...I totally forgot he was in Dune....that just made my day. XD
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #175 on: 20 Nov 2012, 03:10 »

and ruined mine. DX
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #176 on: 20 Nov 2012, 03:27 »

Given the context, I now cannot look at that photo without seeing the most uncomfortable patriotic underpants ever.  It looks like a bald eagle accidentally ran into Sting's boy bits.  Like birds who fly into glass doors.
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BeoPuppy

Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #177 on: 20 Nov 2012, 03:30 »

What do you think will break first?

Pay attention: what you answer might get you deported.
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