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Author Topic: 2012 Election  (Read 14546 times)

bainidhe_dub

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #50 on: 07 Nov 2012, 05:48 »

also...

How does a president with 50% approval ratings squeak by, but a Congress with approval ratings below 10% goes unchallenged?  Sounds backwards.
Gerrymandering works better at the local level.

Did someone say gerrymander? Check out the new congressional district map that just got upheld in Maryland. This thing is absurd. Contiguous and compact, my ass. But since the idea, apparently, was to kick out the longtime Republican in District 6, I guess it worked. Romney won Garrett, Allegany, and Washington Counties by 75, 65, and 58%, but the three together only counted for 35% of the congressional district, which the Democrat won by 59%.
« Last Edit: 07 Nov 2012, 18:33 by bainidhe_dub »
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Papersatan

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #51 on: 07 Nov 2012, 05:57 »

I first saw that revocation of our independence after the Bush/Gore election when we were still trying to figure out who won. It was amusing then, but I am not sure it makes sense now.

I'd like to correct Stephen on one point about the Michigan proposals (and maybe give a little context to non Michiganders).  Mr. Moroun does not own the only bridge to Canada.  There is also one up in Port Huron which is owned by the government.  But, he does own the Ambassador bridge which is the one in Detroit, and the busier of the two crossings.  A deal was reached with the Canadian government to build a second bridge in Detroit, which even without the public/private issues there is enough traffic to warrant.  The Canadian government agreed to foot most of the bill, in light of the state's current financial situation.  This would also buy up a lot of land in an area of Detroit which looks exactly like what most people imagine when they think of Detroit (think empty decaying buildings, including the remains of several burned down warehouses and the like) and would create some jobs as the bridge is built, maintained and staffed.

Mr, Moroun is understandably threatened by the idea of a new bridge and his company drafted the proposition has lobbied hard for it by claiming it will cost the state money which could be spent on firefighters and police.  I think this missed the point that we are getting an excellent deal on this bridge.  The plan aims to spend no Michigan money on construction or land aqusition, though might need some funds for administraive things and does include applying for some federal funds and the bridge tolls would go to paying off any construction debt.  Also, building bridges is something that I think firmly falls within a governments rights.  Even if this were not an attempt by one main to maintain a monopoly (one which I don't understand how he even got... how can you own an international bridge?? ) I don't think I would support it.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #52 on: 07 Nov 2012, 06:03 »

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #53 on: 07 Nov 2012, 06:09 »

Super proud to live in a state (Maryland) that passed gay marriage and a Dream act!   :-D

High fives for your state! I was super happy when I heard about the DREAM act and then was even happier when both issues passed.

My favorite was "return control of our schools to the community" (does he even know what a local school board is?)

He also doesn't seem to understand that he alone can't do this! Also that statement is just plain stupid, especially someone coming from a party that still really likes NCLB.

I can honestly understand why the House is still conservative (most rural areas are conservative and most of this country is rural), but I am glad the Senate got some Democrats (I'm looking at you Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Ohio, and especially Indiana and Missouri, among the others I'm missing), so at least both sides of Congress are not conservative. For Indiana and Missouri, I'm just glad that what those two men were saying has officially been voted to NOT be ok and I'm betting a lot of members of the Republican party are sad that they even endorsed these men.
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lepetitfromage

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #54 on: 07 Nov 2012, 06:55 »

And, with republican backing (read: money) he sent out a whole stack of incredibly slick mailers full of emotional, button pushing gobbledeygook.

It blows my mind that some people actually read those things. They go right from my mailbox to the trash, with the exceptions of just a few that I stop to laugh at first.



Also- yay Obama! And yay for Sean Patrick Maloney taking Nan Hayworth's seat in congress! Woooooot


ETA:
Quote from: The Queen
you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

Bwahahahaha that is amazing. Thank you for posting that link, VonKleist.
« Last Edit: 07 Nov 2012, 07:05 by lepetitfromage »
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« Last Edit: 07 Nov 2012, 07:17 by ackblom12 »
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #56 on: 07 Nov 2012, 07:48 »

Apparently Washington is too close to call, but Maine, Minnesota, and Maryland have all voted for gay marriage.

One step closer, my friends.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #57 on: 07 Nov 2012, 08:17 »

I don't know what party I would technically fall into. Is there one that's pro-gay marriage, 2nd Amendment, and weed?

I guess now that I'm a card-carrying citizen (and a 'grown-up'), I should probably start paying more attention to politics.
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ackblom12

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #58 on: 07 Nov 2012, 08:36 »

Also, it looks like Puerto Rico will be applying for statehood soon and I see no reason why Congress would deny it.

Gonna fuck the shit up out of our flag.

Edit: It depends on what you mean by 2nd Amendment rights. If you just don't want them banned, that's pretty much all of the parties and within a few years I fully expect the dems to start leaning pro-weed pretty heavily. Dems and Green Party are the two most prominent "pro-marriage equality" I can think of at the moment, though the dems are a fairly recent convert.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #59 on: 07 Nov 2012, 09:00 »

I'd say the biggest thing I take issue with is any sort of gun registry. Background checks? By all means. I just don't like to advertise that I own firearms, and I'd rather not have the government (or anybody, for that matter) having a list of the guns I have.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #60 on: 07 Nov 2012, 09:03 »

Well, the closest you might get to that is the Libertarian Party, but to be frank they're all over the place on things. They follow a general thread of logic on individual rights, but it depends on how much you can stomach the party largely being run by wealthy white men who are calling for the dissolution of government and housing an awful lot of racism and sexism.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #61 on: 07 Nov 2012, 09:40 »

YES! No constitutional amendment that would be hard as fuck to repeal for either voter ID or gay marriage... RE. FUCKING. JECTED. Fuck yeah.

Of course, the marriage thing still isn't legal, but after this I think that a certain state law will be challenged in the next year or two...
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #62 on: 07 Nov 2012, 09:41 »

Holy shit...

Quote
Republicans Lose Supermajority in Texas House
 

AUSTIN, Texas - Republicans have lost their 102-member supermajority in the Texas House, opening the door for Democrats to slow or block the majority's conservative agenda.

Democrats have won more than 50 seats in the 150-member lower chamber of the Legislature. That means Republicans can no longer suspend the rules to push through legislation over the objections of minority Democrats.

Last year, Republicans had enough lawmakers to form a quorum without any Democrat showing up for work.

Democratic leaders have said they will use their increased strength to block conservative bills and demand compromise on public education and health care issues.

Republican lawmakers point out that they remain the majority party and will continue to demand less government spending and lower taxes.
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Nikolai

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #63 on: 07 Nov 2012, 10:20 »

Can somebody please enlighten me as to why voter ID is a bad thing? I was under the impression that it was just to help prevent things like double voting and other types of fraud...
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Redball

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #64 on: 07 Nov 2012, 10:50 »

Can somebody please enlighten me as to why voter ID is a bad thing? I was under the impression that it was just to help prevent things like double voting and other types of fraud...
It appeared to be a hurry-up solution in search of a problem. Double voting and fraud committed by voters by all accounts is miniscule. Voter ID may not be a bad thing in the long term, but to me the issue was the unseemly haste to put it into effect before this election that was so suspicious.

A lot of people, many of them on the margins in this country, are entitled to vote because, dammit, they're citizens. But they don't necessarily have the paperwork -- driver license, birth certificate, for starters -- to prove their citizenship, even if they've lived in, say, a little rural community all their life, or have lived in a large cardboard box in LA for a year or five.

Sure, those people may be shown how to fill out the paperwork and mail it to the right place, and have a return address to pick up the document. Or they might be required to make a trip to the nearest county courthouse -- with what vehicle?

Anyway, that's how I saw it.
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ackblom12

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #65 on: 07 Nov 2012, 10:51 »

Basically it follows a long traditional history of voter suppression that largely targets students, minorities and the poor.

Also the fact that actual in person voting fraud is ridiculously rare, with slightly over 200 cases since 2000.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #66 on: 07 Nov 2012, 11:01 »

Voter ID laws generally require you to have a photo ID with your current address on it.  The idea is that it proves you belong in this district/state and that you are who you say you are so that you can only vote once. 

The problem is, as Redball said, people double voting or voting in more than one district or voting as someone else are problems which are not really problems.  It is very very rare.  Most states have some way to deal with it.  A much bigger problem we have is people who are registered to vote not doing so.  Voter ID laws make this problem worse, and they do it unequally across the population. 

Middle class and wealthier people are likely to have a valid driver's licence and to not have recently moved.  Under voter ID laws they would simply have to go vote.  If you don't drive you would have to go and get a special ID, and if you drive or not and you have moved in the past year, you would need to go get a new one.  The people likely to not drive and/or move frequently? Poor people, young people, recent immigrants.  These are the same people who are already less likely to vote.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #67 on: 07 Nov 2012, 11:22 »

Also, unless that ID is free, the requirement is a poll tax.

The intent becomes clear when a state worker is fired for urging his coworkers not to conceal the availability of free IDs.

-------

Gerrymandering:

Senators are elected statewide, so gerrymandering can't affect them. State legislators are elected from local districts subject to manipulation. Republicans want to go back to having Senators elected by legislatures and not by the public. I've never seen anyone point out the cause and effect relationship.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #68 on: 07 Nov 2012, 11:24 »

Can somebody please enlighten me as to why voter ID is a bad thing? I was under the impression that it was just to help prevent things like double voting and other types of fraud...

In the state of Minnesota, it would discourage certain individuals from voting (Because they cannot/ are not willing to pay for a new ID) while not giving any true benefit. Nationally, it is also worthless as voter fraud has never truly decided the outcome of a presidential election, or a congressional one (if I'm remembering my senior year gov class correctly). In the Minnesota example our state has some of the loosest rules on voting (you can register the day of and as long as you have a tax certificate, drivers license, student ID, title deed or two people that can vouch that you live in the county/ state of Minnesota) and we have the lowest rate of voter fraud in the nation (last election, at least).

The ID law here would be like cauterizing your entire arm for a paper cut on your pinky to make sure it doesn't get infected or hunting mosquitoes with a bazooka.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #69 on: 07 Nov 2012, 11:33 »

Thanks for clearing that up. Makes a lot more sense now. And poll taxes are unconstitutional! I learned that studying for my naturalization test.

...or hunting mosquitoes with a bazooka.

...I see nothing wrong with that. Does that make me a Republican?  :psyduck:
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #70 on: 07 Nov 2012, 11:40 »

The testimony in PA against the voter ID law was very moving - people who were married recently (name changed on the license, but not on the voter registration?  Sorry, you can't vote!) or people who can't get to one of the statewide DMV's to get a free ID (there are 67 counties - some don't even have a branch of the DMV, and there are only 5 in Philadelphia, and only one (!!) in Pittsburgh).  After all, if they don't have a license, how can they get to another county to gete an ID? 

It was a stupid law, enacted without enough time to put it into effect in a reasonable way.  Initially, the free ID at the DMV wasn't even in the statute, it was added as an amendment.  It had one and only one purpose - to stop poor, minority and young voters from being able to.  I think there was some shmoe in the state house who actually said that it "cinched the election for Romney" when it passed. 

And it wasn't revoked  just delayed.  You were still asked for an ID at the poll (I was, even though all the pollworkers know me), but if you didn't have one, you could still vote and it still counted.  I think that counted as intimidation, myself.  Bear in mind that you need to sign a registration form before you can vote anyway, and it has the signature you registered with for comparison, so you've already been ID'd that way! 

Most of it was a poorly planned ploy, plotted by pernicious pricks. 
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #71 on: 07 Nov 2012, 11:44 »

You remember correctly. It was Representative Mike Turzai.

------------------

Re: Trump: it's worth knowing that the rest of the world got surveyed about who they would vote for in the US presidential election if they were allowed to. http://globescan.com/commentary-and-analysis/press-releases/press-releases-2012/245-global-poll-obama-overwhelmingly-preferred-to-romney.html. I don't know whether the rest of the world laughs at us for almost electing Romney. I suspect they grimace instead.
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bainidhe_dub

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #72 on: 07 Nov 2012, 11:49 »

Nikolai- To get a sense of the candidates/parties, you can take a quiz at ISideWith.com. They include all 4 of the "third"-party candidates from this election so you get pretty comprehensive results. There's a lot of questions on a range of social, economic, and military issues.

A voter ID law in Texas was struck down because it was found to be an undue burden (I think that was the phrase - something like that) on poor and minority voters. You had to have one of a few types of ID like drivers license, but if you didn't you could get a free voting ID. All you had to do was get to the local security office (4 or 5 near the major cities, 1 in most counties, none in some) by some method (because, no driver's license hopefully means no car) with your birth certificate or other proof ($20 if you need to get a copies).

I mean, I'm not sure how people function day-to-day without SOME kind of photo ID, but three months before elections is not the time and place to start trying to change that.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #73 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:01 »

It doesn't just have to be some photo ID, it has to be a photo ID with your current address.  If you have moved you need to go get a new ID, that costs money, in NY anyways. 

Also, forms of photo ID without your address:
Student ID
Government benefit card (in some states these have your photo)
Passport

That's right, the ID that is good enough to get one across the border, would not be good enough to let you vote. 
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #74 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:07 »

That quiz was really interesting. Apparently I side the most with Stein and Obama, which is not surprising since I consider myself to be a Democrat with Green leanings. Though I find myself disappointed with the education questions, but none of the candidates really had a platform I agreed with anyways. (Politicians don't really get public education, but sadly not enough educators [I'm specifically talking about public schools, not college professors] become politicians.)
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ackblom12

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #75 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:10 »

If the Green Party would stop being douchenozzles about participating in local elections and campaigning, I'd consider registering as Green. As it is, I'm sticking with Independent who tends to vote Democrat for practicality reasons and Green when I think it can be spared and/or it's local.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #76 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:11 »

The quiz suggested that I vote for Stein, but Obama got my vote because, well.....as much as I hate to think so, any vote for a third party might as well be a vote thrown out the window at this point.  :-\


You were still asked for an ID at the poll.....

I wasn't.....granted, they did the signature thing but yeah. No ID.

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #77 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:14 »

After what happened with Nader in the Bush/Gore elections...yeah. I kind of agree with you on that one.

I don't think I've ever seen a local Green candidate. I wish there would be, though, because Cincinnati is a mess.
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ackblom12

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #78 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:26 »

We had 3 or 4 Greens running for various local and state positions, but the Green Party spends next to no money on campaigning, instead opting to spend all of their campaign money on the useless presidential campaign. They need to start with local work, senate seats and go from there, they aren't going to have any long term impact outside of "that crazy commie party" otherwise. It hasn't worked for them yet and it's going to continue not working for them.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #79 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:30 »

You vote for a third party is not thrown out if you live in a state which has no chance of swinging, but if you live in a state where the margin is small, a vote for a third party is a vote from one of the big two.

This year I voted for two green party members for school board.  They both lost.  One of them was also a socialist, so I knew he had no hope of winning.  When your homepage says you support free education for everyone that wants it, including college and post-grad all people here is "I want to raise taxes" not that as a member of the school board he would have had that power anyways.  The non socialist one actually got 2.25% of the vote though. 

I also voted for a libertarian for county prosecutor.  I figure a person whose political believes question the right of the government to lock people up is a much better prosecutor than one who brags that they have a "98%" conviction rate.  If you are convicting that many people, the system is broken.  Some people are supposed to be found innocent.  If you had a district where 100% of the people in court were guilty then that would be a pat on the back for the police, not the prosecutor.  The libertarian got over 15% of the vote, which I was shocked by.  He only had one opponent though.
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Nikolai

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #80 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:34 »

Nikolai- To get a sense of the candidates/parties, you can take a quiz at ISideWith.com. They include all 4 of the "third"-party candidates from this election so you get pretty comprehensive results. There's a lot of questions on a range of social, economic, and military issues.

Nifty. Apparently I side most with Gary Johnson as a candidate, but the Republicans as a party. Not sure how that works, but cool, I guess? Yay for learning about politics!
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ackblom12

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #81 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:43 »

Makes sense, the Libertarians have a lot in common with the Republican party policy wise, technically. Do some more reading on the subject and actually see what you think of the stuff you find when you dig deeper into the parties and their voting and policy records though. It can get kind of nasty and worrying no matter which party you go with. for example, the Republican Party (aka the GOP) is pretty well known for anti-gay marriage, racist rhetoric and policy making and "traditional families".  Not all Repubs are bad clearly, but it depends on if you can stand getting into the climate the current GOP has. Same with Dems, same with Libertarians, same with Green Party.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #82 on: 07 Nov 2012, 12:49 »

Which is why I advocate for everyone voting for people and not parties.
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Zingoleb

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #83 on: 07 Nov 2012, 13:17 »

I apparently match up with Jill Stein's policies almost 100%. I'm somehow unsurprised.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #84 on: 07 Nov 2012, 13:21 »

You vote for a third party is not thrown out if you live in a state which has no chance of swinging

Well...that's my problem. Ohio has ALWAYS been a swing state. We're kind of in a bind here. The majority of the votes come from the major cities, but if all of the liberals vote for a third party and everyone else continues to vote Republican, we lose. And if the rest of the country isn't also voting for that third party, then it's kind of like shooting ourselves in the foot.

I can post more later, but I've got to head to class.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #85 on: 07 Nov 2012, 13:44 »

Can somebody please enlighten me as to why voter ID is a bad thing? I was under the impression that it was just to help prevent things like double voting and other types of fraud...
That is the thoroughly disingenuous excuse. For the real story read up on things like "literacy tests", poll taxes, and other disenfranchisement techniques used during the Jim Crow era. Australian had similar laws.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #86 on: 07 Nov 2012, 14:44 »

Mitt's concession speech was actually pretty thoughtful and well said. 



Insincere as all getout, but you can't have everything...

'I Want To Congratulate The President,' Romney Says In 240,000th And Final Lie Of Campaign

Very pleased to see Obama get a second term. It would've been closer had Romney not made so many awful gaffes and had a fair few extremists behind him. I'm focusing on this because he seemed to mention so very little of what he was actually going to do as president!

Trump, an ass as always. Maybe if Obama releases his college records, Trump can finally make it common knowledge what advanced scientific anti-gravitational shit he's using to keep hair on his head.
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #87 on: 07 Nov 2012, 21:08 »

It's just white glue mixed with grits. 
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #88 on: 07 Nov 2012, 21:16 »

It's a white fluid, anyway. Not sure if it's glue.  :roll:
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #89 on: 07 Nov 2012, 23:30 »

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #90 on: 07 Nov 2012, 23:32 »

Buzz= Oregon
Woody= Texas

Pretty much how that's going down. :P
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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #91 on: 07 Nov 2012, 23:40 »

[...]
http://globescan.com/commentary-and-analysis/press-releases/press-releases-2012/245-global-poll-obama-overwhelmingly-preferred-to-romney.html. I don't know whether the rest of the world laughs at us for almost electing Romney. I suspect they grimace instead.
Most people I have spoken to have the feeling that we, the world, dodged a bullet there. We're already afraid of the next election.

I still think that if the US pres. wants to style himself 'leader of the free world' there had better be an election in which the free world can have its say.
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Zingoleb

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #92 on: 08 Nov 2012, 02:13 »

Buzz= Oregon
Woody= Texas

Pretty much how that's going down. :P

Oregon didn't legalise it, apparently. Let's call him Seattle, instead.

There's a guy up in Seattle that drives around in a van and sells seriously high quality pot out of it. He delivers. It's great.
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Barmymoo

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #93 on: 08 Nov 2012, 08:54 »

I also instinctively thought "why is requiring photo ID a bad thing?" but then I thought about our system. Here, all I have to do is turn up at the correct polling station and announce my name. I don't have to show any kind of ID whatsoever, including my polling card. There is nothing at all to stop me rocking up to someone else's station and using their name. I have never heard of it being a problem. However, if I were required to produce addressed photo ID I'd be in a bind, because my driver's licence has my mum's address on it and I vote at a station 200 miles away from there.
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bainidhe_dub

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #94 on: 08 Nov 2012, 10:55 »

And that's why ID laws are also an effective tool to disenfranchise college students, aka another group of damn liberals.
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snalin

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #95 on: 08 Nov 2012, 12:17 »

I think we get a thing in the post that we have to show. I can't remember if showing ID is an alternative, but I think it is. I can see that ID laws would cause problems, but then again, you would probably be able to prevent this stuff.
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ackblom12

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #96 on: 08 Nov 2012, 12:20 »

Sure, but once again, it's something that happens 15 - 20 times a year at most. The only voter fraud that happens in any meaningful way involve absentee ballots and other forms of non in-person voting, and even those have safety measures.
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Blyss

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #97 on: 08 Nov 2012, 13:57 »

Shady Shit in AZ.

Gotta say, I was worried about this, when before any results were even in, it was being reported that a lot of people that had registered specifically to vote against Arpaio (Our dictator limelight seeking sheriff in this county) were being told they could only vote provisionally - and those votes didn't count in the actual sheriff's election.

This is a big problem, given how MANY of them there are.

It doesn't look good at all. :x
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Papersatan

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #98 on: 08 Nov 2012, 14:01 »

Also, what some states do now prevents this.  In NYS when you register to vote you sign the form, and when you go to vote there is a book that lists all the people eligible to vote in that district and it shows their signature from their registration form.  When you sign in to vote they cover the half with the signature and you sign the other side.  IF the signatures match you are good to go.  No photo ID, no hassle.  While you could forge someone else's signature, learning to write the signatures of 100 people would not be feasible.  It seems like it would actually be harder to do than get 100 fake IDs.  Most college undergrads can get a fake ID pretty easily.
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Jace

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Re: 2012 Election
« Reply #99 on: 08 Nov 2012, 14:33 »

huh. I guess that means I'll probably never be able to vote since I have an incredibly inconsistent signature.
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