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Many laughs, good discussion, great friends and a happy new year!

8 (11.9%)

Another big storyline and character development.

10 (14.9%)

Faye's mom and sis return!

2 (3%)

Raven! More Raven!

5 (7.5%)

PENELOPE!!!

0 (0%)

That wedding we've been talking about.

2 (3%)

Marigold!

2 (3%)

EMILY!!!!!

6 (9%)

More AnthroPC hijinks (and character development)!

2 (3%)

Claire's backstory!

7 (10.4%)

No more hand issues from Jeph.

13 (19.4%)

Spathe Ham and Waffles!

1 (1.5%)

MOAR MEMES!

0 (0%)

Whatever it is - it's gonna be GOOD.

9 (13.4%)

Total Members Voted: 62

[Mr. Doctor]

Hehehehe it's not like Jeph has an option... His characters are alive and do whatever they want wohoooooooooooo 

[Carl-E]

One of my three brothers and his wife made the decision that they wouldn't add to the worlds population.  He put his money where his reproductive organs are and had a vasectomy. 

One of my other brothers had two boys.  His wife's catholic, they wanted more, but both boys were autistic to different degrees, and so they decided against more. 

My wife and I wanted a large family as well.  After two extraordinarily harrowing caesarians to have our two daughters, we decided not to abuse her body any further. 

....and my youngest brother's over 40 and has never had a serious relationship (except with a bass).  I literally have no idea if he even gives family a thought.  Ever. 

[Bluesummers]

Awww, and here I wanted to see a pregnancy arc...not. I have nothing against pregnancy, I just think it will open up too many cans of worms, or Jeph will use the "Hand of the Wrathful God-Writer" and kill the child before birth, one way or another. I'd rather not go down that path.

Skullmaster is a servant of Morgoth.

I'm pretty sure you have that backwards.

Sauron was a servant of Morgoth...it didn't stop him from doing whatever the hell he wanted, including terrorizing Middle Earth, trying to turn all the elves into orcs, starting up a gluten-free bakery to raise awareness of his condition, and creating the One Ring.

[sitnspin]

I literally don't know anyone who doesn't ever want to have kids. Most people I know are more like "someday, who knows". And there's also a few "right now, can't wait". But the opposite side of the spectrum I've never met.

Nice to meet you, you just met one. I honestly do not understand the desire to have kids at all. It is such an alien concept to me, that I literally can not wrap my head around it. I suppose it is good for the species that those people exist, but I don't get it it. Kids are awful, messy, and loud. It takes every ounce of energy just to keep them from dying the first few years and it just gets worse after that. And every video of a birth I have ever seen makes me say "Hell no am I letting my vag get ripped open by an a screaming bloody alien-looking thing like that."

I would never wish ill on a child, I was one myself once upon a time and I know the damage a shitty life can wreck, but neither do I want one anywhere near me. I babysat a niece once, and that was enough for me.


Then again,  I don't even want the responsibility of owning a pet.

[Barmymoo]

I think a lot of people who say "I don't want to have children" base that on seeing the awful children other people raise. If you can identify the behaviour you don't like (screaming, making a mess, being generally unpleasant) then you can deal with it when they're your own. Most bad kids are just the product of bad parenting.

That said, I don't think everyone should want to have kids and certainly not everyone should have them. It's a big commitment! And it requires specific skills and character qualities. I know I'd make a good mother. I know I'd make a shitty surgeon. It's the same type of decision.

[Zebediah]

Well, I have a son, and it was the best thing ever to happen to me.

Emphasis on best thing ever to happen to me. I know better than to generalize my own experience to everyone else. Some people aren't cut out for parenthood.

And I'm glad we won't be seeing a silly arc where we wonder if Angus is really the father of Faye's baby, or if it's the result of a drunken one-night stand with Pintsize.

[ihaveavoice]

I think a lot of people who say "I don't want to have children" base that on seeing the awful children other people raise. If you can identify the behaviour you don't like (screaming, making a mess, being generally unpleasant) then you can deal with it when they're your own. Most bad kids are just the product of bad parenting.

This is very much not the case for me - I generally like children, though not nearly as much as they like me, and am very good with them. Too good, because it leads to "you'll make a great mother" type comments, to which I always reply, either out loud or in my head, "or cool aunt." While I do like kids, I don't want to be around them for longer than a babysitting gig lasts, no matter how cool any specific child is. I have no desire to go through pregnancy, childbirth, caring for an infant or having a kid to care for after that.

The only scenario in which me having a kid is a happy thing in my head is the very specific future timeline in which I become a very good friend's egg donor, visit every so often and only ever get more involved than that when the kid's old enough to have conversations - also, this involvement does not extend to me having to do any heavy-lifting raising of the kid - I just take her places sometimes, show her to my family and teach her valuable lessons about life. (It's always a she. I guess if the child was born male, I'd just be like, well, I can't have a Ya-Ya Sisterhood of secrets with THAT. Seeya!  ) And the reason my egg is even used instead of a more convenient arrangement where I befriend a niece or other child? Just so I can be like, "There, I've passed on my genes, now STFU EVERYONE." So basically, this particular subset of daydreams isn't about me having a kid - it's about me imagining a way to refuse to do what society/my family wants me to do with my uterus/life while never being penalized for it. "Look, I'm involved in her life! I brought her to dinner! I totes did the kid thing so leave me alone."

So yeah, it's ridiculously late and I may have rambled or may have made sense, I don't really know, but the point is: I like kids but do not want any of my own. I face annoying pressure to (and patronizing insistence that, as being female removes my say in all matters, I WILL) change my mind about this when I get older. I keep seeing media be all "every woman wants children or HATES AND FEARS THEM" and as a result will idly make up futures in my mind every once in awhile where I can be off the hook for not working how I'm "supposed to." I therefore would like to refute the assumption that people who don't want kids just think they're all "bad kids" judging by some observed bad behavior. (Not saying you were making that generalization about ALL people who don't want kids, just have to address it. You are awesome, BTW, for not prescribing your choices as The One Right Way for everyone else.) It's quite possible to find kids silly and fun rather than thinking they're screaming poop machines and still have no desire to raise one!

[Black Sword]

Anti-children attitudes make me go 

Seriously. I can get being pissed at poorly raised children, but using that as a basis to dislike children in general and want to avoid them, let alone not to want to have any? It perplexes me.

Of course, at this point my consternation is merely an academic point, since I don't have anyone to even discuss having kids with. (there needs to be an XD smiley on QC)

[jwhouk]

Did anyone get the feeling that a.) we've had this conversation in-strip before, and b.) this conversation could have been held 1,000 strips previous and the reaction would have been the same?

[Carl-E]

You would know if it's been in-strip before or not - I don't recall it ever coming up.  But yes, as a topic it seems character-defined (rather than defining), in that the reactions of those involved don't seem like they'd change even if the people themselves changed. 

You may be thinking of the maternal instinct comic that someone brought up, where Dora mentioned that she'd probably eat her young.  I think that's as close as we've gotten. 

[Cambyses]

I don't think people who don't want to have kids are "anti-kid" necessarily. I would love to have kids some day, but with the laundry list of congenital health problems in my family (diabetes, obesity, tendencies towards substance abuse, autism, schizophrenia and many more!) subjecting another human being to the lifelong risk of winding up with one or more (likely more) of these just to have a little mind that I can mold and shape in my image seems unbelievably selfish and callous.

[TheCollyWolly]

I see a fight brewing... I really hope Jeph doesn't write Angus out. I like that guy.

On a side note, my girlfriend and I have pretty much decided kids ain't for us. I don't think we're cut out to be parents, and those shits are expensive.

[Method of Madness]

Why would a fight start? Angus seems like he'd want to have kids someday.

[westrim]

Great Leader, are babies not necessary for maintaining the DPRQC? Surely your personal Childfree feelings should be kept out of the propaganda Daily Entertainment Comics of the Web.

Okay, I'm kind of tired of squeezing into this, I'll change my avatar back at the end of the week.

[Welu]

Dora's mentioned her lack of desire for wanting children before. Can't find the strip but I remember when she was asked about babies she mentioned her uterus curling in on itself like a millipede in response. I assumed Faye would have the same opinion but it's neat to see her view of, "Maybe, maybe not." Considering her past she seems she could be a fun, Make The Most Of Every Moment type but over-protective mum.

I personally have never wanted children. There's no real reason other than I Don't Want To.

Edit: Millipede uterus. I couldn't find it at first because I thought it was said way earlier for some reason. Plus she said she didn't like babies to Jim.

[Zebediah]

Why would a fight start? Angus seems like he'd want to have kids someday.

Maybe so, but Angus could be trying to agree with her on the "someday" part and have it go horribly wrong. Since when does a fight have to be about something rational, especially where Faye is involved?

[Is it cold in here?]

Dora was quite emphatic about not having kids.

Faye would be a better aunt than a mother.

[idontunderstand]

No, I'm sure Faye would be a great mother. Someday. 

[Barmymoo]

There are lots of good reasons not to have children, and all the ones mentioned so far seem reasonable. Frankly if you don't actually want to have them, I think you shouldn't - we have far too many people on this planet to have more just for the sake of appeasing social expectations.

[Welu]

I get bugged when I'm asked to further justify my lack of desire for children. I usually want to say, "Surely there should be more reasons needed for having children rather than just wanting them because? Just wanting a child doesn't mean it's a good idea to have one. Not wanting a child is a very good reason to not have one since if you don't want to be responsible for another living being for the rest of your/their life, they'd probably ended up resented against at the least."

~~

On the comic, I kind of like and dislike Dora's reaction to Faye at the same time. It's more than surprised and kinda dramatic.

[Method of Madness]

I personally have never wanted children. There's no real reason other than I Don't Want To.

That's a perfectly cromulent reason.

Millipede uterus.

Ha, I was wondering if today's comic was Jeph's way of letting people know he never intended to have kids, but then I saw that his post for the quoted comic was "man I can't wait to get my vasectomy" (which he may have since had? I dunno) so I guess no little Jephs.

[sitnspin]

I get bugged when I'm asked to further justify my lack of desire for children. I usually want to say, "Surely there should be more reasons needed for having children rather than just wanting them because? Just wanting a child doesn't mean it's a good idea to have one. Not wanting a child is a very good reason to not have one since if you don't want to be responsible for another living being for the rest of your/their life, they'd probably ended up resented against at the least."

Thank you. I was an accident, my parents were not looking to have a kid, and they ended up being rather horrible at the parenting thing. They are dead now, and while on a certain level I miss them, there is still a whole lot of resentment left over.  I don't want to have kids, and while I have plenty of justification for not wanting them, the lack of desire alone seems a good enough reason to not do so.

The fact that, given my sexual orientation, becoming pregnant would involve an expensive and lengthy ordeal only adds to weight to it. Adoption is an alternative that is also lengthy and expensive.

Personally, I find the apparent need for many people with children to tell us non-breeders to tell us how awesome it is to be a parent and to ask how we could possibly NOT want to have them or to ask the "So when are YOU going to have a kid?" to be  bit obnoxious. I don't tell people not to have kids, all I ask is that they don't try to pressure me into it.

I don't mind being an "aunt" though. I am an only child, but there are a few kids out there who think of me as an aunt because of my relationship with their parents.

Related to the comic: I don't find it all that surprising that Faye would consider the possibility of having kids someday. Beneath the prickly sarcastic armor, Faye is a fun-loving gal and rather child-like in her enthusiasm and rather protective of her family of friends. I could see her being a great mom: loyal, protective, and attentive. The messy bits would drive her nuts, as they do with all parents (I assume), but playing with the kid and teaching it to get by in the world (in her own cynical way) I think she would really enjoy.

[Carl-E]

Found it!  Mom nom nom. 

[Overkillengine]

There are lots of good reasons not to have children, and all the ones mentioned so far seem reasonable. Frankly if you don't actually want to have them, I think you shouldn't - we have far too many people on this planet to have more just for the sake of appeasing social expectations.

/scrooge paraphrase butchery

If they'd rather not, then they had better not do it and decrease the surplus population.

But yes, having children is a huge responsibility that should not be taken on trivially. I see so many people my age spawning without thought; or thinking the child will bring them some sort of fulfillment; or will make someone else happy, or fix their destined to fail relationship...and all I can feel is pity for the poor child subjected to that, and resolve not to make that mistake myself.

[Tova]

Generally speaking, I quite like other people's kids. That's all I'll say on that topic.

[Bluesummers]

Faye would be a better aunt than a mother.

She already is, to Sam...pretty much. She's the cool aunt that spoils the kids and pisses off their parents in the process. Aww yeah...

My aunt watches Cow and Chicken. she's the cool aunt.

[Is it cold in here?]

Is my memory playing tricks on me?

Is there a strip in which Dora says that Faye would eat her own young?

[henri bemis]

I quite like kids, especially when they're older, but I don't want any of my own.  I've already got two young half-siblings and a niece that I love spending time with.  But the idea of being pregnant creeps me out, and I'm sure I'd hate every second of it (I know some women who love it, and that's great for them!  It's just not for me), and since I don't really have any desire to reproduce, why bother finding out?  When I'm older, and if I ever have the money and time, I could see myself fostering or adopting older kids, and I've always assumed I'd take in my siblings if anything happened to my parents (I'd be the only family that could), but I fully intend to keep my own uterus unoccupied.

I think Faye would make a rad mom.  She's obviously not planning to get pregnant right now, just keeping her options open because she isn't sure yet.  I get that.

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye would need to develop a longer fuse if she were to be a good parent.

If she treated a toddler the way she does Pintsize, there would be issues and repercussions.

[Carl-E]

Is my memory playing tricks on me?

Is there a strip in which Dora says that Faye would eat her own young?

I don't think so, but there's one where Dora says she'd eat her own young.  I cited it four posts before you asked. 

[Akima]

Anti-children attitudes make me go 

I'm not anti-children. I'm anti the massively unbalanced social and economic impact of having children on women. There is not much we can do about the fundamentals of biology, or the way the still-considerable medical risks of child-bearing fall almost exclusively on women, but economic policy and social status are matters of choice. When I read articles like this, and this, having kids really does not seem a good bet.

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

No comic today?

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

And somehow by posting that I FIXED IT.   

[Barmymoo]

This might be better in the DISCUSS forum but still...

Women are making the wrong choices early in their careers

Now that, I find offensive. I am one of those women making a career choice that will lead to a fairly poorly-paid job, and hopefully I will be taking time out from that job in order to raise children. It is the right choice for me. I'm 100% behind the idea that women ought to be paid the same amount as men (and that traditionally "female" jobs like, for instance, midwifery, teaching, administrative work and shop work should be paid at an equal level to comparable "male" jobs like being a doctor, construction, being a solicitor and accountancy) but I find that sentence to be suggesting that it is women's own fault if they don't make a shitton of money because they made the wrong choice. I should not have to choose between doing a job I would be good at and enjoy, and having a decent wage.

[Border Reiver]

Diapers - nothing more fun than watching someone change a newborn's diaper for the first time.

Newbie:  "This isn't so tough, don't know what the problem is...Oh My Sweet?!?  This kid just drinks milk - where the hell did all this green stuff come from?!?"

Baby:  "Goo" (while looking so cute and helpless that it is nearly impossible to contemplate running away in terror)

[WAYF]

It just occurred to me that possibly the last time that Dora, Faye and Marten were all bouncing off one another like this, was just before the break-up. It's been too long.

[Near Lurker]

(and that traditionally "female" jobs like, for instance, midwifery, teaching, administrative work and shop work should be paid at an equal level to comparable "male" jobs like being a doctor, construction, being a solicitor and accountancy)

Now hang on - look at what you're asking.  In terms of the required skills, administration isn't really comparable to accountancy.  While the same isn't true of shop work vs. construction, a construction site, no matter how well managed, should be worlds more dangerous than a properly run shop.  These two became "female" professions due to a low estimation of women, not the other way around.  As for the one that if anything stems from a mystic overestimate of women, midwifery, how necessary or useful it is at all is an open question, but it can't be denied that it's a highly specialized skillset compared to the much broader knowledge base required of nurses and doctors.

(Teachers and lawyers... well, that's a more interesting one.)

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

I am responding to Barymoo and At the risk of kicking over a bee-hive here:

I have yet, in all the years I've worked, to meet a woman who is willing to work on an equal level as her male counterpart.

"I'm sorry I can't do that it smells bad."

"Oh that's icky,  do it for me."

"I'm having *issue* due to ____,  I need accommodation."

And the ever popular  using flirting/sex-appeal to get people to foist work off on others... along with the ever popular pretend-harassment/everything-is-offensive-accommodate-me types.   This applies equally to office-work, as well as manufacturing and fabrication work

This is a cross-section of the population numbering in the thousands,  it is across 20+ years of working,  and my observations are backed up by many others across the region, state, country, internet.

Women want true equality?    Stop being a weasel,  roll up your sleeves and grease that drive-shaft.    Yes it smells nasty.   Yes you have to lift/twist/bend.   Yes it can be interpreted as an innuendo.    Get over it and get the job done then we'll talk equal pay.

I'm sure there are women out there who are more than willing to work as a true equal,  I just haven't met any.   

[westrim]

I am responding to Barymoo and At the risk of kicking over a bee-hive here:

I have yet, in all the years I've worked, to meet a woman who is willing to work on an equal level as her male counterpart.

"I'm sorry I can't do that it smells bad."

"Oh that's icky,  do it for me."

"I'm having *issue* due to ____,  I need accommodation."

And the ever popular  using flirting/sex-appeal to get people to foist work off on others... along with the ever popular pretend-harassment/everything-is-offensive-accommodate-me types.   This applies equally to office-work, as well as manufacturing and fabrication work

This is a cross-section of the population numbering in the thousands,  it is across 20+ years of working,  and my observations are backed up by many others across the region, state, country, internet.

Women want true equality?    Stop being a weasel,  roll up your sleeves and grease that drive-shaft.    Yes it smells nasty.   Yes you have to lift/twist/bend.   Yes it can be interpreted as an innuendo.    Get over it and get the job done then we'll talk equal pay.

I'm sure there are women out there who are more than willing to work as a true equal,  I just haven't met any.   

I find your four spaces between sentences, and two after commas, very offensive. Off to the Kwalliso with you.

[Akima]

I giggled, but... How large is the age-gap between Faye and her sister (who'd just failed her first year at college the last time we saw her, so 19-ish then, I suppose)? Faye's in her mid-twenties, so six or seven years? I wonder how many seven-year-olds are changing nappies?

Now that, I find offensive.

It set my teeth on edge too, but the article was discussing a government report that only addressed income inequality, and reasons for it, not job-satisfaction, self-actualisation or any of the other nice things at the top of Maslow's pyramid. Until all jobs are equally paid (unlikely and probably undesirable), making choices that lead to lower-paid employment is foolish, if the only thing you care about is the wage.

Stop being a weasel,  roll up your sleeves and grease that drive-shaft.    Yes it smells nasty.   Yes you have to lift/twist/bend.   Yes it can be interpreted as an innuendo.    Get over it and get the job done then we'll talk equal pay.

Stop being a bully, stop assuming that only men are entitled to define the working environment, stop demanding that women accommodate men while offering no accommodation in return, and then we'll talk about whether anything other than bigoted contempt is being offered.

[jwhouk]

Ahem... DISCUSS, please?

And you guys are missing the big reveal!

Marten's an ONLY CHILD, y'all! It's CANON, baby!

[hakko504]

Diapers - nothing more fun than watching someone change a newborn's diaper for the first time.

Newbie:  "This isn't so tough, don't know what the problem is...Oh My Sweet?!?  This kid just drinks milk - where the hell did all this green stuff come from?!?"

Baby:  "Goo" (while looking so cute and helpless and aiming it's stream of p** into newbie's face)

Fixed.

[DSL]

... Marten's an only child as far as he knows. Veronica's a little hazy on the subject.

I was thinking that I'd feel sorry for Sven the next time he walks into CoD except for:
a.) He's less likely to have changed Dora (two-year age gap) than Faye to have done similar service for Amanda; and
b.) If he had, he'd make some snarky comment about infant Dora's diaper region, finally receiving his Faye-supplied beatin'.

[westrim]

Anti-children attitudes make me go 

I'm not anti-children. I'm anti the massively unbalanced social and economic impact of having children on women. There is not much we can do about the fundamentals of biology, or the way the still-considerable medical risks of child-bearing fall almost exclusively on women, but economic policy and social status are matters of choice. When I read articles like this, and this, having kids really does not seem a good bet.

That's where the whole marriage thing comes in handy, providing an extra person to support the kid/s. On the general topic of income inequality, I always feel the distinction is often not made clear between people being paid differently for the same work (we've both spent 5 years delivering mail, why does he get paid 2 dollars more than I do?) and being paid differently for different work (I'm a nurse, she's a doctor, she makes much more than me), which are entirely different issues.

[Bluesummers]

Marten's an ONLY CHILD, y'all! It's CANON, baby!

I just kinda assumed...wow, was that really not defined up until now?

[pwhodges]

Actually, it's made pretty clear here, and in the next one where she says she doesn't have any illegitimate children either.  Any doubt expressed in the forum is just people riffing on the remark about the years before Marten's birth being a bit of a blur.

[Carl-E]

I'm sure there are women out there who are more than willing to work as a true equal,  I just haven't met any.   

I have.  Many of them.  And my life is richer for it. 

My goddaughter was a mechanic in the army, and is now working as a gunsmith (she's also now a mother). 

One of my best friends in the theatre group works for DPA in cleanup, not to mention being a registered electrician (mainly so she can work the union theatrical lighting gigs). 

Not only do they exist, they are more common than you'd think.  Just 'cause you've led a sheltered work life...

[pwhodges]

I'm sure there are women out there who are more than willing to work as a true equal,  I just haven't met any.   

I have had more female bosses than male over the past 45 years, and have worked with many, many female peers on an equal footing.

[DSL]

In my previous life as a newspaper guy, I worked for a total of seven boss-editors. The three best are women. They kicked ass, took names, made sure they had the names right. They never, ever, insisted they or any source be treated any differently because of internal plumbing -- more than I can say for the male boss-editors.

I've worked with and for hilariously incompetent male and female journalists, too. I remember them because (and this is an institutional quirk of the news business) they were the loud exception -- and I have to actively remind myself of former co-workers who, to put it bluntly, gave a shit and let it show in their work.

Excuse me, gotta run -- I'm supposed to be taking care of my 83-year-old mother, who literally does not know how to NOT work and is adjusting with difficulty to enforced retirement.

If you'd care to define "taking care of" as "trying and hilariously failing to keep up with," you can posit that I'm doing OK at it.

[Thrudd]

I have.  Many of them.  And my life is richer for it.  .....
 ...... Not only do they exist, they are more common than you'd think.  Just 'cause you've led a sheltered work life...

Even your rebuttal's opening and closing statement points out that such people are still not in the majority

Up until recently I also had a sheltered work environment where everyone was capable, and also willing to lend a hand if an issue cropped up.
[ small high tech / pharma start-ups ]

Now I am in the Real World [tm] (service industry) and am constantly amazed and appalled at the general populace.
It's not so much a gender thing, except in how individuals go about it [girls do it one way, guys another] but people are more often then not stupid or lazy if not both [a dangerous combination].

The world, she is crazy 

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Bah - I'm posting this anyways even though they are much better than mine