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[Barmymoo]

I expect this film has been out for months in the USA but I just saw it tonight (Les Mis was sold out - by happy chance, as it turned out) and thought it was incredible. I loved the fact that they broke cinematic rules - they shot entire scenes with the light behind the characters, they panned across people's backs, everything was dimly lit and grubby.

My knowledge of the history of Abraham Lincoln's presidency is sufficiently sketchy that the ending was a surprise (I did suddenly think "wait, was Lincoln assassinated?" at one point, but dismissed it as a false memory), so I would be interested to hear from anyone who has comments on its veracity. Does the film reflect the American view of Lincoln?

As an intellectual challenge it was excellent. I will be buying it on DVD.

[jwhouk]

If you have Twitter, you could ask him yourself.

(No, not Daniel Day Lewis: Abraham Lincoln. Seriously.)

[riccostar]

I have spoke about this film with my history-adept friends and it is actually very historically accurate.  Great by both cinematic and historical standards.

[Pilchard123]

"Got to the theater", they said. "It'll be fun", they said.

[LeeC]

my favorite Lincoln moment is when Abe and JFK were opponents in an election and JFK put up a smear video of Abe eating a baby by editing a video of Abe eating spaghetti with a baby.  Abe was curious as to how JFK got his spaghetti video, only to find out he was stabbed in the back by his best friend Joan of Arc.

[jwhouk]

Shaddup.

[riccostar]

"Got to the theater", they said. "It'll be fun", they said.

Is 150 years too soon?

[jwhouk]

Seriously, May: go see it.

Lincoln was shot and killed by a Confederate sympathizer, John Wilkes Booth, at Ford's Theater in Washington. The play in question was "Our American Cousin", a comedy poking fun of "backwards" Americans from the POV of Brits. The scene were Lincoln was shot by Booth was allegedly edited out of the script from that point onward.

[Cire27]

I expect this film has been out for months in the USA but I just saw it tonight

Seriously, May: go see it.

 

[Valdís]

It didn't come to my local cinema, it turns out. Wanted to see it. ;_;

[Barmymoo]

Yup, Jwhouk, I did go see it! I'm advising others to do the same! I intend to find out more about Lincoln and indeed the American Civil War in general - it looks like a very interesting period of history. Any book recommendations?

[Carl-E]

It's probably the most written about period in history, certainly in American history.  However, rather than wading through books, if you've got about 12 hours, I heartily recommend Ken Burn's first major documentary, The Civil War.  Authoritative, extensive, engaging, and really incredibly well done. 

[jwhouk]

I'd actually suggest getting a copy of Ken Burns' The Civil War TV series. There would be so many books on the subject, you'd be overwhelmed.

By the way: my great-great grandfather on my maternal side (mom's mom's mom's father) was a Civil War veteran in the GAR, Wisconsin regiment. Strangely, he is the only direct relative of mine who was a veteran of any war (that I know).

[TheEvilDog]

I saw it last Saturday, and somewhat enjoyed it. I say somewhat because this little shite sitting behind us kept talking throughout the entire film. About an hour into the film I told him to shut up or get out, in the end his friend told him to shut up.

Back to the film, liked it immensely, and found Thaddeus Stevens to be quite interesting and a surprising character.

[Method of Madness]

Back to the film, liked it immensely, and found Thaddeus Stevens to be quite interesting and a surprising character.

Yeah, Tommy Lee Jones arguably stole the show, which is even more impressive considering DDL was Lincoln and gave an excellent performance himself.

[Barmymoo]

I had to tell my friend to put her phone away mid-film, because the screen was so bright it was annoying me (and presumably even more so the people who weren't making dispensations because they knew and liked her).

Thanks for the recommendation - I will look out for that documentary series. Anyone know of any legal, non-mind-blowingly-expensive ways to get hold of it?

[Method of Madness]

It's streaming on Netflix. Even if you don't have it, getting it for a month wouldn't be mind-blowingly-expensive ($8).

[Kugai]

Just got home from seeing it.

Damned good film

[Barmymoo]

Netflix is free for your first month! How long do things typically stick around on there? I don't think I can justify jumping into a 14 hour documentary just at the moment but term ends in about five weeks.

[Method of Madness]

I wouldn't worry about it, I'm sure it'll still be there in a month or so.

[Carl-E]

It's also in a lot of public libraries...


...in the US.  I know, not really helpful. 

[jwhouk]

A suggested reading:

The Civil War - the text of the narrative of the miniseries. You can get a good paperback version of it relatively cheap.

It covers the whole of the War from Fort Sumter to Appomattox - and beyond.

[Barmymoo]

Hmm sadly not available on the UK site, but I might be able to find it in the library - we have a lot of books in the university library system. Thanks!

I read a review of the film today which said that it white-washed aspects of Lincoln's character, such as the fact that he believed white people were inherently better than black people. Anyone know anything about this?

[jwhouk]

That was the prevailing attitude in the US at the time - even among those who were abolitionists.

[Redball]

It's half off and half on topic, but my first thought about the previous two posts was that phrenology was a popular pseudoscience through the 19th century. The connection, I guess, is that there were few ways of determining superiority or inferiority, innate intelligence etc., so the shape of the head was as good as any to make wild-ass guesses about all kinds of characteristics.

[jwhouk]

Something that might surprise those of you in the UK is how close you are to a major battle of the Civil War.

In June of 1864, the Confederate Ship Alabama left the harbor of Cherbourg, France to face the USS Kearsarge, whom had been pursuing the former from North America. The CSS Alabama was involved in raiding at least five different ships (for the purposes of resupplying the CSS fleet) on its way to France, as the Kearsarge pursued.

Finally, on the 19th, the Alabama attempted to run the blockade of the harbor by the Kearsarge, with the French flagship Couronne on hand to enforce French Territorial limits. It was a pretty much one-sided battle, as the Kearsarge was a better shielded ship with more accurate guns.

The Alabama still rests off the coast of France in the English channel, about 8.5 km north of Urville-Nacqueville.

[Kugai]

It very nearly became a war on two fronts for the Union in 1861 after the Trent Incident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Affair

[Torlek]

The British government was also seriously considering recognizing the Confederacy in 1862 in order to force a peace and open the cotton trade back up. However Antietam happened that September and got rid of that thought. The UK also avoided possibly being drawn in when they seized two ironclad cruisers that were being fitted out in Liverpool for the Confederate Navy in late 1863. The US already had an axe to grind over the Alabama and had the North Carolina or Mississippi made it out a Union invasion of Canada would have been probable. Finally, the last Confederate ship actually surrendered to the Royal Navy in Liverpool a good 5 months after the war ended.

To be an internal American affair the British, and in a less direct manner the French, were surprisingly involved.

[jwhouk]

Yeah, one of the reasons why the Confederacy went to grab Fort Sumter first was because they could then control a port where they could continue trade with the UK and others. The Union tried (rather unsuccessfully at most points) to blockade the CSA to keep them from doing so.

The CSA actually used Canada as a base for their spying operations on the Union.

What's rather strange when you read about the Alabama is that the ship never even made port anywhere in the South. It wouldn't surprise me if that was more the norm than the exception.