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The Angel of Peas!

3 (3.9%)

Give peas a chance!

15 (19.5%)

Peas cannot be achieved through violence.

9 (11.7%)

Imagine whirled peas.

6 (7.8%)

A vision of peas with a Birdseye view.

3 (3.9%)

Peas on hurt; goodwill to all sentient beings.

5 (6.5%)

+5 soothe pain, -5 cause light frostbite.

9 (11.7%)

No justice - no peas.

5 (6.5%)

Peas porridge hot - no Earl Gray.

2 (2.6%)

Peas porridge cold - with a side of waffles.

6 (7.8%)

Space ham and peas?

3 (3.9%)

Can we peas stop the puns?

11 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 72

[ZoeB]

Ah prejudice, it's a pain in the ass. Especially when it's your own prejudice that you're trying to overcome and you know you're behaving stupidly, but you still can't shake the automatic response.

I've become aware of it through my own life experience. Not my personal situation, but I now mix with people I never would have before 2005.

Here's an exercise for those saying "Na, I don't rely on appearances to judge anyone". Two pictures. Before and after FFS.

Before:



After:



It's the same gal.

Until you can look at the first picture, and see behind the eyes the woman in the second, you won't Grok in Fullness. Until you can look at Gordon, and see Station - or Momo - behind the half-dozen eyes - you also will not Grok in Fullness. It's not easy.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

[Xthform]

If Scott Ramsoomair has the gale to write this comic http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=270 why can't Jeph make a comic where a pre op trans gender character has a relationship with a member of their current pre op sex.

The last time something non-PC happened the extreme Tumblr feminist underbelly caught a wiff of it, came out and drove him to the drink which ended in him stabbing himself, and that was only because there was one of the characters had low self-esteem. What do you think they would do if he "insulted" them a second time?

In the end Jeph has the final say in what happens and all we can do is speculate and not insult him because you "don't see this arc going anywhere I want it to go."

A story writer passionate about his stories wouldn't let militant extremists control the context of their work. I'm also not insulting him, I've been reading QC since the beginning loving almost every minute of it but I've noticed a sad tone here as I do with nearly every other webcomic I read. No one seems to want to do anything risque and it's becoming extremely depressing to see a remotely interesting plot ruined for you because you know the writer 9 times outa 10 isn't going to take the non PC route. Case in point was why I linked the VGcat comic. There are people out there who don't care about being PC and are mildly successful, I just wish Jeph was more like that.

If Scott Ramsoomair has the gale to write this comic http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=270 why can't Jeph make a comic where a pre op trans gender character has a relationship with a member of their current pre op sex.

If only Scott Ramsoomair would bother to POST a damn strip at least once a week instead of this wishy-washy schedule, perhaps your argument would hold some weight.

Just because Scott doesn't update on a regular basis doesn't strip him of the fact that he isn't afraid to do something incredibly Non-PC so my argument is sound. Also if you want to get that kinda technical Jeph doesn't have a perfect update record either. I haven't seen Ryan and Lar over at Licd post a filler strip in sometime like 5 or 6 years? Despite going on con tours for months at a time.

[pwhodges]

There are people out there who don't care about being PC

And there are people who care about how others are treated and treat each other, regardless of ideology.  Jeph is like that, and he will make his own choices without reference to us anyway (he only rarely glances at this forum).

[Xthform]

There are people out there who don't care about being PC

And there are people who care about how others are treated and treat each other, regardless of ideology.  Jeph is like that, and he will make his own choices without reference to us anyway (he only rarely glances at this forum).

All I'm saying is Tolkien wouldn't have changed the Hobbit if some militant Christians started throwing bricks at his house for corrupting the minds of children with his books about magic (Much the same way Dungeons and Dragons caught alot of hate).

[bhtooefr]

I think Xthform is actually referring to a different kind of PC than is normally used in the US context of people being "too PC", but still considering PC as a negative thing.

(For full context, a lot of rhetoric in the US considers using non-slur names and presenting minorities in a positive light, in the name of political correctness, to be pandering to those minorities, and therefore being PC is a bad thing (if you're a white cis straight God-fearin' all-'murrikan asshole male, anyway).)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Xthform is actually arguing that in reality, it's being PC to pander to the white cis straight Christian American male (abbreviated as WCSCAM from here, because screw all that typing) segment of the population, and being PC in that regard is a bad thing (which, IMO, it is). If I'm reading it right, he's also arguing that Jeph ends up being too PC in that definition, to prevent his audience from attacking him too much for being too PC in the standard US definition, which I disagree with - Jeph has changed dialogue before for the sake of not offending his audience, but just about every time, it's been for the sake of not offending MINORITIES, not to perpetuate the WCSCAM's perspective. And, he's been afraid to go down storylines not for reasons of offending the WCSCAMs, but rather for reasons of potentially offending the minorities he's portrayed (just read his comments re: the Claire storyline).

Not to mention, he portrays racial, sexual, and now gender minorities in a very positive light, and he DOES explore storylines involving those people in ways that would horrify the WCSCAM. (Well, you could argue the lesbian exception to the WCSCAMs being negative about homosexuality (which isn't positive, it's creepy, but at least it's not outright hatred) in the case of storylines involving Tai's personal life, but still.)

[Tova]

All I'm saying is Tolkien wouldn't have changed the Hobbit if some militant Christians started throwing bricks at his house for corrupting the minds of children with his books about magic (Much the same way Dungeons and Dragons caught alot of hate).

He's not going to change it just because you want the story to go a certain way, either.

The story will go the way it goes, and no matter what happens, one side will no doubt claim that Jeph didn't "have the guts" to write the story the way they wanted it to be written. In reality, Jeph will have his reasons for writing the story one way or another, and you are kidding yourself if you claim to really know those reasons.

Your OP is total nonsense. It's the worst kind of shipping, with a hefty dose of bullying thrown in for good measure. It ought to be treated the same way as any other shipping post on these forums.

[ankhtahr]

Keep in mind that there were verbal personal attacks on Jeph earlier, and he had a hard time dealing with it. I wouldn't resent Jeph for trying to avoid something like this, not implying that he does.

Jeph should do what he wants to do. It really isn't our business telling him how to do his job.

[jwhouk]

Not that we haven't helped him do his job before, though.

[jwhouk]

What's in store for us this week?

More Marten/Claire angst.    15 (22.7%)
Faye and Angus get into an argument.    0 (0%)
Marten gets the band a gig - a *paying* gig!    7 (10.6%)
Tai and Dora - the relationship deepens.    3 (4.5%)
One whole week of characters eating breakfast.    6 (9.1%)
Momo offers Claire the services of her Social Protocol Database.    4 (6.1%)
Momo ends up zapping Clinton (again).    5 (7.6%)
The reason for Gordon's reappearance is revealed!    15 (22.7%)
You ever wanna just sit and stare at the wall for, like, three hours?    3 (4.5%)
I think that describes my time reading the forums...    7 (10.6%)
(Insert "Waffles" or similar meme here.)    1 (1.5%)

Total Members Voted: 66

[Neko_Ali]

In regards to Clinton and today's comic... Karma is a bitch. I just wish it worked that efficiently in the real world...

As far as prejudices go, and dealing with people and their appearances... It can be a hard thing. I am pretty good at it in general. But there are still some things that seriously scare me and send me into panic attacks. Gordon, I could deal with because he is a very stylized looking spider. I would think more 'Tachikoma' than 'ohgodnokeepitaway'. Some spiders I have no problem with, or think are cute. Others... run screaming. In some cases because they could or would be dangerous to me.. but in others they just scare or disgust me... I would get the same reaction to a scorpion AnthroPC... I would try to get away, largely out of fear. It would take me a lot to overcome my aversion to that. A cockroach AnthroPC... would never even have a chance to prove themself to me. I would either be running screaming or attacking them.... I don't think anybody is completely free from prejudice. Some deal with it more than others. Some work harder to get over what prejudices they have. But I don't think anybody can ever get rid of them all. I would like to meet that person though...

As far as the story goes and whether or not there 'should' be some romance between Marten and Claire. That's really up to Jeph. From what I have seen in the rest of the comics, I trust that he will handle it respectfully and well. And we know that he is being extra careful with Claire, as he specifically doesn't want to offend anyone with her character and wants to portray her accurately.

That in mind, all of the major characters are flawed people, like everybody is, really. They all have their host of issues and problems and they all have their ways of dealing with or not dealing with them. Dora and Marten were good together for a while. And while in the end it was Dora's trust and self worth issues that caused the break up, Marten had his part in it with his passive/aggressive stance and his habit of always just 'going with the flow' and trying to 'not make any waves'. Good things in moderation, but not when you are running away from or avoiding problems and letting them build up. The same issues reared their head when it came to Faye and Padma. And likely any romantic relationship with Claire would run into similar issues. Marten will likely have to deal with his own personal issues before he gets into a good relationship, the way that Faye is working on hers.

I have not seen any indication that Marten thinks of Claire as anything other than another girl. Claire does seem to worry about that though, how other people see her. My thought was that her major worry about the Marten-snuggling was that he would feel somehow weirded out snuggling with a girl who wasn't 100% biologically female. But then that could be just me projecting....

[pwhodges]

All I'm saying is Tolkien wouldn't have changed the Hobbit

He's not going to change it just because you want the story to go a certain way, either.

Though actually Tolkien did change The Hobbit, with a retcon to match the account Bilbo gave in The Lord of the Rings about how he got "Gollum's" ring.

[Rghfrgl]

If Scott Ramsoomair has the gale to write this comic http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=270 why can't Jeph make a comic where a pre op trans gender character has a relationship with a member of their current pre op sex.

If only Scott Ramsoomair would bother to POST a damn strip at least once a week instead of this wishy-washy schedule, perhaps your argument would hold some weight.

He should have hung it up a long time ago. It was a great comic, but he doesn't care about it anymore, yet can't let go either.

To respond to the comparisons I don't think it's fair. VGcats has no continuity or long term storytelling. The controversial strip killed the main character and he was back 2 strips later. I don't know if Jeph has the guts to do a Claire and Marten romance. I'd lean towards 'probably not', but there's a whole lot more to consider. Where does the romance go? Will a shy girl like Claire fit in interacting with the main cast more?(I don't think so, except in a Marigoldish role and we've already got Marigold.) Is she the one? If not how do they eventually break up and where does the character go from there?

Now I'd love if tomorrow Tai walks into the office and Claire and Marten are making out as much as the next shipper. I don't know if that'd be the right move for the comic(Though I'd certainly love being proved wrong). And that's just it. It's not just a matter of if he's got the guts to do it, but if it's the right thing for the comic.

 If you don't consider that all a sudden it's jurasic park. And then Sara gets eaten by a dinosaur.

[Xthform]

Keep in mind that there were verbal personal attacks on Jeph earlier, and he had a hard time dealing with it. I wouldn't resent Jeph for trying to avoid something like this, not implying that he does.

Jeph should do what he wants to do. It really isn't our business telling him how to do his job.

I wasn't so much trying to tell him how to write more so just venting something that has bothered me about web content lately. For the record I'm not even a fan of a Claire Marten shipping I just thought this was a chance to do something that would really push the envelope because no one ever takes those kinda risks anymore.

@bhtooefr
You are pretty spot on here and I know Jeph has done some great things with his writing for minorities and bi/gay people and I love him for that but rarely do I ever see something like a trans gender person make it into a main cast let alone a still transitioning one. I thought Jeph was really gonna go some place big with Claire you know rush headlong into uncharted waters and having this in transition M to F enter into a relationship with someone who knows what they are and what their going through and be willing to accept that would be something I've never seen before.


As I stated above I was never really pulling for a Claire Marten relationship but my need to push boundaries started screaming for this to happen. Everything these days is very scripted and predictable. I can't remember the last time I watched or read something I hadn't already guessed the conclusion of.


EDIT: I know I'm being incredibly selfish with what Im trying to get at but you'd be frustrated to if you'd gone 15 years without being truly impressed by something again.

[Method of Madness]

He should have hung it up a long time ago.

I thought he did hang it up a long time ago. And I just looked, he's done about 20 strips since 2009, and three since 2011. That's not an irregular update schedule, that's occasionally coming out of retirement. There's no comparison between that and Jeph occasionally taking a sick day. (Also LICD occasionally posts a filler strip, not that their Con Tales aren't fun, though)

Though actually Tolkein did change The Hobbit, with a retcon to match the account Bilbo gave in The Lord of the Rings about how he got "Gollum's" ring.

What.

[bhtooefr]

That said, it would be a completely plausible storyline for Claire to not be interested in pursuing a relationship at all, let alone one with Marten, for many, many reasons:

• She may not want to add the stress of a relationship to her life when she's going through grad school
• She may not want to impose any trust issues and anxieties that she has (and we know she has both - maybe not to Dora level, but still, both Dora's and her trust issues are affecting their professional lives - Dora nearly fired Faye because of them, Claire destroyed work assigned to her by Tai because of them) on a potential partner
• She may simply not be interested in a romantic relationship period - we know that she has attractions, but that doesn't mean that she's romantically inclined. I somehow doubt this, it'd be very weird in light of her trust issues and a few other things, but it's possible I guess
• She may fear that her status would cause issues (potentially personal safety issues) in a relationship

Note that only one of those has anything to do with her being trans. Myself, I suspect that if Jeph went that way with the shiptease, he'd go for #2, because that shows Claire as flawed, but trying (as opposed to Dora, although that's not 100% fair to Dora now).

And, there's also plenty of reasons for it to not be Marten - his passivity in many situations would probably frustrate Claire to no end. Conversely, her intensity, if he's in an especially passive mood, or wanting to interact with her in some way other than what she's focusing on, could annoy him. (It could work really well, though - Marten's been shown as less passive lately (really, ever since right before the breakup, when Dora pushed him to the breaking point admittedly, but Dora also pushed him, AFTER the breakup, to actually get into the band stuff again, and he's been continuing with that without her pushing him further), especially in this arc, where he actively went to make sure Claire was OK, and actively helped her through the situation once she was able to interact with him. And, Marten's passivity could end up being a form of stability for Claire, and Claire's intensity could end up being a form of motivation for Marten.)

[Valdís]

Though actually Tolkein did change The Hobbit, with a retcon to match the account Bilbo gave in The Lord of the Rings about how he got "Gollum's" ring.

What.

Well, it was explained in-universe as the previous account being from Bilbo's telling, where-as Frodo wrote down a more truthful account of what happened, which Bilbo had chosen to exclude.

[pwhodges]

Though actually Tolkien did change The Hobbit, with a retcon to match the account Bilbo gave in The Lord of the Rings about how he got "Gollum's" ring.

What.

Details here.

[Is it cold in here?]

If the purpose of webcomics we don't write ourselves were to break new ground rather than entertain, it's worth noting that Jeph is breaking ground by having Claire be just another character. I gather from the comments of several trans people that this has been a breath of fresh air to them.

"The purpose is to entertain people for 15-30 seconds every weekday and also to make me money so I can buy food"

If anyone can't live without a comic up to their standards of edginess, well, the barriers to entry are low and it's welcome to promote it here -- there's a thread just for that.

[TimO]

... And, there's also plenty of reasons for it to not be Marten - his passivity in many situations would probably frustrate Claire to no end. Conversely, her intensity, if he's in an especially passive mood, or wanting to interact with her in some way other than what she's focusing on, could annoy him. ...

Which could of course make for an interesting story arc.  You really don't want relationships which work for a fictional tale, because that's boring.  Something with two characters at each other throats half the time makes for dynamic and interesting events.  Historically it was how Marten failed to get off with Faye and Padma (permanently) which probably made for interesting things happening.  We know that it's likely that any characters relationship is doomed to failure, because Happily-ever-after doesn't make for a good continuing storyline, only for the end of one, and I'd hope that Jeph isn't about to hang up his cartooning boots.

[Method of Madness]

Though actually Tolkien did change The Hobbit, with a retcon to match the account Bilbo gave in The Lord of the Rings about how he got "Gollum's" ring.

What.

Details here.

Damn it, Tolkien.

[Neko_Ali]

If the purpose of webcomics we don't write ourselves were to break new ground rather than entertain, it's worth noting that Jeph is breaking ground by having Claire be just another character. I gather from the comments of several trans people that this has been a breath of fresh air to them.

It really really is, for me at least. Just having a trans character is impressive. Handling them well is wonderful. Not making the entire character or comic be about them being trans is almost unheard of. Though in fairness to that, most comics which feature trans characters are focused on trans or LGBT stuff, so it's natural and normal that most of the comic revolves around those issues.

[GarandMarine]

@Zoe: As someone who's done a lot of overcoming the past year, I don't think I'd ever get over my inborn automatic response of trying to kill Gordon with the nearest heavy object. Then again I'm so ridiculously arachnophobic it probably qualifies as something more severe....

My bet is that if Gordon's life was in danger, and you knew for a fact that he was a person, you'd pick him up and take him to safety. THEN collapse in a screaming heap. Amnesia-inducing drugs would be appropriate therapy.

Probably, I mean Gordon seems quite pleasant, his chassis just flips my beserker switch.

I have tried to over come my arachnophobia, to that end I know a lot about spiders, I've let tarantulas walk on me, I've watch movies, read books, met with experts in the field of spiders  and talked to them. Mentally I respect them as one of nature's oldest and most effective predators. This does not stop me flipping out the buttered fuck crumpets and terminating with extreme prejudice when I see a common house spider. I'm not sure what I'd do dealing with a Huntsman. Probably wake up 24 hours later to a destroyed house and wonder what the hell just happened.

[TinPenguin]

Though actually Tolkien did change The Hobbit, with a retcon to match the account Bilbo gave in The Lord of the Rings about how he got "Gollum's" ring.

What.

Details here.

Damn it, Tolkien.

It's not that surprising. He did spend his entire life rewriting and reworking everything he'd ever written, never quite finding satisfaction with it all.

(perhaps this is also/more relevant to the thread on comic #10)

[Akima]

I've had to eject two Huntsman spiders from the premisses recently. Catch and Release.

I am not supposed to kill creepy-crawlies, so I have quite a arsenal of catch-&-release kit. The key weapons are transparent plastic bowls with wooden knobs glued to the base. This allows me to hold the bowl securely, and see the spider etc. through the plastic as I slap the bowl over it. Then I slide a sheet of plastic between the bowl and the wall, floor etc. and take the captured creature outside. As Zoë says, Huntsmen are big and I need my "B-52" 200mm diameter catcher for them. There are Redbacks and occasional Funnel-Webs in my garden, along with the odd poisonous snake. Yes, welcome to Australia.

I have no problem with spiders of any size, but I don't like cockroaches. They really creep me out for some reason, and I sometimes kill them even though I know I should not.

[Redball]

In Bombay in the 1960s, I expended a lot of DDT on cockroaches. They infested two places in our apartment: Under the sink and inside the intricately-folded cardboard bookcase provided by the Peace Corps at the time.

[Tova]

Spiders are very much friends in our household, and usually (though not always*) enjoy careful escort into the back yard.

Cockroaches do not enjoy such privileged treatment. Nor do indian mynas. Their only reward, if caught, is a swift death.

* They occasionally get to stay put if they are not bothering anyone and are safe from our resident cat.

[Rghfrgl]

Barring going Hitchcock, how can a bird be that bad?

[bryntheskits]

They are territorial and highly aggressive birds who compete with and displace native wildlife for habitat areas. They take over tree hollows and plug up nest sites they are not using, forcing possums and birds out and ejecting nestlings and eggs from their nests.  They also compete with native fauna for food and habitat.

Source

[Platypodes]

When I was a kid, I often used to choose a package of frozen peas when I was out and my mom offered to buy me a snack.  My mom found this...unusual.  She might *still* be telling her friends about her daughter and the frozen peas.  I'm so glad to have Emily for company in this!

[GarandMarine]

Wow, that bird makes Yelling Bird seem like a pleasant individual.

[ZoeB]

My thought was that her major worry about the Marten-snuggling was that he would feel somehow weirded out snuggling with a girl who wasn't 100% biologically female. But then that could be just me projecting....

Or me. Same issue here. Plus me getting weirded out too - just because you're Trans/Intersex doesn't prevent you from feeling the same Transphobia that many others do. It can be inconvenient on a personal basis, but also useful as it allows you to see the Transphobes as merely human, like yourself. Not innately bad. This really is a case of "to understand all is to forgive all" and to laugh at the inconsistent illogicalities of being human. Kindness is the answer of course, to forgive yourself, so forgiving others becomes not just trivial, but inescapable.

[mtmerrick]

oh god.

i googled huntsman spiders.

i do not have any kind of arachnophobia but those guys give me the heebiejeebies. i would, as was said by someone else earlier, probably wind up destroying with extreme predujice if i met one IRL.

*shudders*

[Tova]

They are scary looking, but they pretty much keep to themselves. Plus they eat cockroaches. Enemy of my enemy, and all that jazz.

[jeanramone]

I've got a pet Huntsman called Harry. He's pretty chill.

[ZoeB]

oh god.

i googled huntsman spiders.

i do not have any kind of arachnophobia but those guys give me the heebiejeebies. i would, as was said by someone else earlier, probably wind up destroying with extreme predujice if i met one IRL.

*shudders*

No, Huntsmen are "catch and release". They're ... about as harmless as you can get for a venomous creature in Australia. They just look scary. Ok, terrifying. 20cm B-52 size Spider Trappers definitely appropriate.

Redbacks are far less menacing in appearance, but actually deadly to the elderly and very young, and painful to adults. Those are the ones I take no chances with.

There is a typically Australian  tragic ballad concerning a victim of one of these creatures.

[celticgeek]

Meanwhile, back at the library - bad pea puns irritate Emily.

[Method of Madness]

Ha, no! She loved that pun. She just wanted to be the one to say it! (Have we ever seen Emily sad?)

[GarandMarine]

Ugh, someone suspend Claire's license to comedy. It just doesn't work.

[Method of Madness]

It's not the pun that's bad, it's her interrupting. I should give her a peas of my mind.

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

Possible DRAMA,  which may lead to CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

[Method of Madness]

Doubtful, though.

[mtmerrick]

This is the second? time we've seen claire's  face.

I love it. 

[Is it cold in here?]

Attempting puns around Emily seems to produce what the old IBM manuals called "unpredictable results".

[GarandMarine]

Attempting puns around Emily seems to produce what the old IBM manuals called "unpredictable results".

FTFY

[K1dmor]

This is the second? time we've seen claire's  face.

 It's the third time.
 One,  Two,  Three.

[EspyPsyche]

Creepy insect things do not get a pass in my home. I exterminate with extreme prejudice and maximum firepower. Whether it be spiders (which I know aren't actually insects), roaches, or anything else with more legs than a cat, it has to die. I even own a high-power sprayer with a fogger setting for killing wasps and anything else bee-like. Out on the street, I don't exterminate, but in my home (or at the public pool when I used to be a supervisor) I definitely exterminate. At the pool, it was a public safety hazard to have stinging insects, venomous spiders, or anything that bites.

[mtmerrick]

Yeah, claire's punning leaves much to be desired. But that home at the lake had me cracking up for a few minutes straight.

[Sidhekin]

It's not the pun that's bad, it's her interrupting. I should give her a peas of my mind.

Even peas may be purchased at too high a price.

[Method of Madness]

Yes, peas sell, but who's buying?

[K1dmor]