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Author Topic: The Ultimate Hi Def Next Gen Console thread (internet connection required)  (Read 40681 times)

ackblom12

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Yessssss, the backpedaling begins.

Microsoft to Drop Used Game Restrictions, Online Requirements

This may have officially become a race again. Though I suspect they're going to be feeling the damage done from the initial announcements for a while to come.
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RedWolf4

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My, that was quick, wasn't it?

I'm betting this won't save them from still losing a fair portion of their sales, but it is . . . . satisfying. . . to see such a fast response and turn around. I wonder what that board meeting was like?

"What do you mean our corporate strategy of bending the consumer over a barrel and sodomizing them with the new Kinect wasn't recieved well?"
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LTK

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Unfortunately, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression.

Makes me think. I considered Microsoft's decision of killing the used game market with DRM as a sound business choice, but now I realise that Sony's approach is far, far more sensible. Sony and Microsoft sell consoles, not games. They collect licensing fees from game sales, which means it's in their interest to sell new copies of games rather than used, but if they want to be considered as hardware manufacturers in service of the consumer - which they do, only they're not fooling anyone - then it's not their responsibility to put a stop to used game sales. I can sort of imagine that shelves stacked full of second hand console games also contribute to the popularity of the console.

If Sony and MS are going to pretend that they don't care about people selling console games second-hand, then we can probably look to the publishers to recoup the loss. After (or even before) Sony and MS, game publishers suffer the most. One possibility for them to alleviate this is to go to the console manufacturers to ask for implementation of a top-down DRM system, which would be in both parties' financial interest. It would be interesting to know how much say the respective publishers' board members had in this decision. However, it's obvious that consumers aren't simply going to let them get away with this, not without offering some substantial incentives to draw players in despite the restrictions imposed by the DRM. Steam's the perfect example to look toward here; the most important incentive they gave is the massive discounts. If Microsoft is not willing to do the same (i.e. knock $10 off every one of their $60 games) then no one is going to have a reason to tolerate this massive decrease of flexibility.

So, this might just show what we can expect the future of consoles to look like:

E3 2013, Next Gen and PC's Bizarre Invisibility Problem

Anyway, the other option that publishers have is simply to implement their own software-based DRM with the same functionality, which is an approach we can assume Sony is taking given how they said publishers were going to be able to implement their own form of DRM on the PS4. When given this option on the PC, some publishers attempt to weed out piracy by requiring a constant online connection in order to play. Recent examples are SimCity and Diablo 3 which, depending on how well you tolerate bullshit, also did not provide enough incentives to justify the fact that you get booted out of your game if your connection drops.

Let's hope that this doesn't bring publishers to decide that they actually do want a cut of all those second-hand games in circulation, because if they do, it would be comparatively trivial to implement their own DRM on the newest consoles - plenty of RAM to fit it in, after all - with a much lower chance of it getting cracked. If that happens, I would actually prefer that Microsoft streamlines the DRM by integrating it with their own Live accounts if the alternative is having to manage an EA account, Activision account, Ubisoft account, etcetera...

Also, a member of the Rock Paper Shotgun forum says:

Quote
New marketing name: Xbox 180
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

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That Vid comes up as Private - even when I log into YouTube
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Edguy

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As glad as I am that they're getting rid of the always on BS, this is pretty weak. Funny how Sony screwed both of them  :-D
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I dunno..

K1dmor

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^ I admit, I lol'd.  :-D

I feel kinda ambivalent about the whole thing atm. Shitty DRM management aside, things like install-to-HDD, game registration + download-from-anywhere, the 10-member free game/DLC-sharing library were genuinely good ideas, and it appears that they've scrapped all that.

It feels like rather than improving the core digital distribution concept, they've done away with it entirely, which I don't believe was entirely the right choice to make. I think we simply needed more options, like an offline mode as a contingency - and now instead of offering anything novel, we just have two next-gen consoles pretty much only comparable by their hardware. Hooray for diversity.
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Edguy

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It feels like rather than improving the core digital distribution concept, they've done away with it entirely, which I don't believe was entirely the right choice to make. I think we simply needed more options, like an offline mode as a contingency - and now instead of offering anything novel, we just have two next-gen consoles pretty much only comparable by their hardware. Hooray for diversity.

It's not like we gave them much of a choice, is it. Any attempts at minor modifications would probably just have resulted in hate, with people proclaiming it's still a piece of shit. The internet forced them to do something drastic.
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I dunno..

RedWolf4

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They COULD have kept it like that and taken away the DRM and connection issues. I honestly don't see why not. . .
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Edguy

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Even the DRM-stuff is fine by me, all I'd require was an offline mode (not necessarily removing the always-on, as I believe that could have some positive uses).

But the thing is, I don't think they felt that they had much of an option. Go big, or go down.
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I dunno..

ackblom12

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The sharing of digital games and such isn't entirely gone actually. They've had to set it aside because it required the infrastructure they just had to scrap to get done, I'm guessing it'll be added back within a few months. Also keep in mind that now that Steam's digital sharing is about to start up it's beta testing, not even going into MS's original planned bits, I suspect Sony has something like it in the works. Not something I'd make bets on exactly, but I think it's pretty likely.
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ackblom12

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And so I can suckle on Jim's teets again, because in this case he basically has the exact same stance I do but with words that aren't put together at an 8th grade level.

An Industry That Needs Xbox One DRM is a Failed Industry
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GarandMarine

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Apparently MS caved and retracted /all/ of it's DRM and stuff for the Xbone
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ackblom12

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...That's what this entire page is about?
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GarandMarine

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I dunno, I'm out of it, sorry.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

ackblom12

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So there's been a lot of talk lately about how much of a pain in the ass MS is to work with if you aren't a major developer. Double Fine has had a load of problems with them in the past and it sounds like they're having problems trying to work with them getting Massive Chalice on Live, Jon blow, Fish and many others have criticized them and a lot of indie developers are jumping ship to Nintendo and Sony. Here's one of the nastier ones.

The Sorry Saga of Skulls of the Shogun & Windows 8

“When people call Microsoft ‘evil’, it’s kind of an undeserved compliment. To be evil, you have to have vision, you have to have communication, execution…”
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K1dmor

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 Because Nintendo deserves one too  :-D:

 
 PS: What game is the one with "Robots into Tanks, and Dinos" ?
« Last Edit: 21 Jun 2013, 00:12 by K1dmor »
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LTK

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We saw Sony's and M$'
Don't. Just don't.
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

Lupercal

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Yeah I mean, shouldn't it be M$, Son¥ and Ni圓tendo?

I don't think the Robots/Tanks game has a name yet. 2014 release anyway, which is looking like the year the Wii U finally gets some interesting games on it.   
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snalin

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And so I can suckle on Jim's teets again, because in this case he basically has the exact same stance I do but with words that aren't put together at an 8th grade level.

An Industry That Needs Xbox One DRM is a Failed Industry

Since we're already talking about the dude a lot, here's a (thread-unrelated) interview he just did about his change in stance on gender... stuff.
« Last Edit: 23 Jun 2013, 10:27 by snalin »
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ackblom12

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And so I can suckle on Jim's teets again, because in this case he basically has the exact same stance I do but with words that aren't put together at an 8th grade level.

An Industry That Needs Xbox One DRM is a Failed Industry

Since we're already talking about the dude a lot, here's a (thread-unrelated) interview he just did about his change in stance on gender... stuff.

The HTML link was broken. This should fix it.
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snalin

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Those right brackets, man, those right brackets.

I think I need a proper IDE to write these forum posts.
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ackblom12

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And Jim again, because why not, on why the PC gets away with all the stuff that the One was criticized for. I really think all of this is incredibly obvious, as Jim does, but here ya go.

Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It

And no, the sharing option One had was not enough to counteract any of this.
« Last Edit: 24 Jun 2013, 14:23 by ackblom12 »
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ackblom12

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Huh, so the Xbox One isn't including a pack in headset because of the Kinect. They still have yet to prove (as far as I'm aware) the new Kinect is actually capable enough to totally replace it. The original Kinect was a total piece of shit for both gesture and voice recognition. If I was planning on getting one, I'd be mildly annoyed that they couldn't pack one in with their $500 console. Also, the headsets from the 360 won't work, which isn't necessarily a surprise, but still a bit of a dick move. As the article points out, it's also a bit of a dick move for those who have hearing problems.

The PS4 is including a headset, but I think most fully expected that considering how dumb the lack of one for the PS3 was.

Microsoft’s decision to remove pack-in headset from Xbox One hurts parents, hard of hearing
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Lupercal

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Good thing about the PS4's headphone thing is that it just has a universal jack on the controller so you can fit whatever crazy headset you like into your gaming routine, which is much nicer than the two options on the 360 - shitty, thin wired default headset, silly in-ear faux bluetooth thing that cost too much.
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Edguy

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I hope Microsoft goes that way as well, can't imagine having monopoly on small headsets was too big a part of their income. Of course, there could be some sort of technical limitations like the controller outlet not being able to support a larger headset properly or whatever, but they should let stuff like that be the users' responsibility. Standardized hardware all the way!
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I dunno..

ackblom12

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They're not. MS is going proprietary with their headphone jack. They've claimed that they are looking to 'fix' the fact that wireless 360 headphones won't work on it, but until it's done I'm not sure if it will happen.
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snalin

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Proprietary headphone jacks.

Just... taste the sound of that. It might be the stupidest thing in the world.
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RedWolf4

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I'm sure it tastes pretty sweet to the business strategy guys.

"Oh, lets make it so you have to use all proprietary gear with the console, that'll boost revenue by a few billion."
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Edguy

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Proprietary. I don't even know what that means, let alone how to pronounce it..
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I dunno..

ackblom12

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It means that it's a connection type that has been patented. This means that anyone who wants to make anything compatible with it, be it adapter or headset, will have to purchase a license from MS in order to do so. This is, of course, assuming that they sell licenses to do so.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-incompatible-with-current-gaming-headsets

Other examples of proprietary formats would be Sony's memory cards for the PSP and Vita. Also the adapter plug-in for the iPhone.
« Last Edit: 30 Jun 2013, 16:58 by ackblom12 »
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Edguy

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Yeah, I got the meaning of the word out from the context, but it would have been completely foreign to me alone.
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I dunno..

snalin

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See I can get the memory card thing; you'll probably be buying one with the handheld anyway, and if you can't stick your PSP mem card into your pc, pirating is going to be harder. But most people already have headphones they'll want to use. I can't see myself being happy sitting playing with a decent Msoft headset on, with my ungodly expensive Bose lying unused right next to me.

For a company that's trying to make "the ultimate integrated entertainment experience", making sure that you can't pull your headphone plug out of the xbone and into your phone when you need to go... Hell, it's not even going to be compatible with windows fucking phone.

MSOFT STAPH
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Pilchard123

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Was that meant to be "MSOFT STAHP", or were you likening Microsoft to a Staph. infection?
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de_la_Nae

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Poor Staphylococcus sp., getting lumped in with Microsoft's games division like that.  :angel:

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Well both are the results of festering wounds.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

de_la_Nae

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Ha!

I kind of want to derail this thread with microbiology stuff, but I won't, promise.

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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

ackblom12

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Well, that is a bit of a stretch ain't it?
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RedWolf4

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I think that somewhere, there is lye being applied to an open wound.
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ackblom12

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I don't think this will have much new for most folks here, but this is a rather funny breakdown of some of the announced features for the PS4 thus far.

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ackblom12

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And holy shit, self publishing for the PS4 seems to be ridiculously simple.

Here's How Self Publishing Will Work on the PS4

"While we obviously don't all have PlayStation 4s yet and can't comment on how self-publishing is working out for the system (if only!), on paper, it does sound like Sony -- and Nintendo, let's not forget -- are making the right decision going into this new console generation. Speaking at the Develop Conference, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe senior account manager Agostino Simonetta recapped what it will be like for developers who choose to self-publish on PS4, as reported by Gamasutra:

  • Developers have "end-to-end" control, including games' release dates.
  • Success on the platform is said to do with the quality of the current game and not how many titles a developer has previously put out (though that surely doesn't hurt).
  • To that end, promotion on the PlayStation Blog, for example, is "not guaranteed" and "depends on the objective quality of your title."
  • When a game is submitted to Sony, developers can tick a box that indicates their desire to get feedback from the company. This is entirely optional and advice received needn't be followed.
  • Once submitted, it takes approximately one week before a game is able to go live at which point the developer chooses when that will specifically happen. That's it!
While licensed developers will still need an actual development kit to get started, once that hurdle has been passed, the process sounds reasonable in all the right ways. It's a fabulous time to be making games and I can only see that becoming more true over the coming years."
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RedWolf4

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Welp, PS4 it is for me then.
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ackblom12

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Sony is doing an awfully good job of upping the ante with MS.

Sony relaxes Video Unlimited DRM on PlayStation devices

Quote
Sony has relaxed the download policies for its Video Unlimited service, Shacknews has discovered. Better known as the Video section of the PlayStation Store, Sony has added support for a cloud library and re-downloads across multiple devices.

The original policy prevented users of the Video Unlimited service from ever re-downloading purchased content. In fact, the PlayStation support site still notes that "videos purchased on the video store cannot be re-downloaded once it has been downloaded to either a PS3 or PSP system." Essentially, videos disappear from the Download List once successfully downloaded and activated on a PlayStation console.


However, it appears you can now access all of your downloaded video content, including content purchased before the terms have changed. The language on the Video Unlimited website reflects the change: "If you purchase a copy, the video or TV show download will be available infinitely and can be transferred to other enabled devices." For example, if you've purchased a movie through the PS3 store in 2010, you'll be able to re-download that content on Vita by accessing the Download List on that device.

The most recent Terms of Service for the Sony Entertainment Network also reflects the change.

Greg Belloni, senior manager of corporate communications at Sony Network Entertainment, confirmed the change to us. "I can confirm that we did recently change the service to allow users to re-download video content."

The change means video purchases on PlayStation Network no longer need to be backed up to a hard drive. With support for a persistent video library, Video Unlimited matches similar policies in place by iTunes and Amazon Video. With exclusive content from Sony Pictures planned for the service, it's a change that simply needed to happen.
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de_la_Nae

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Sony's always been good at kicking others when they were down and turning it to their advantage; I mean Playstation 1 and 2, c'mon.

They aren't any good at getting themselves out of a slump without that though, i.e. Playstation 3.

Also I like to hold the view that Sony is generally peopled by Shadowrun Insect Spirits, so uh...y'know, I wouldn't necessarily take my input too seriously.

Also hey, Yahtzee writes another one.

ackblom12

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Heheh.

Man though, I'm always a bit weirded out by people seriously comparing console and PC specs. Partially because I feel like PC gamers have this weird idea that everyone on the planet builds their computers, at least when it suits their complaining, and also have a strange habit of ignoring the fact that even on an x86 architecture, it's not so easy to compare when it comes to actual performance. They also love to ignore the benefits of having a consistent build for developers. Comparing prices of the hardware is just kind of silly for this reason, though the software prices and proprietary hard drives are completely up for grabs.

As much as I dislike gamer fandom in general, I think PC gaming fandom is one of the more irritating sects.
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RedWolf4

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Heh, yeah. I remember that comic someone did of the whole 'REAL' gamer shtick. No one comes out good in that. Except the taxidermist.
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