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[lepetitfromage]

So, after hearing all of you discuss gaming in some of the Chatter threads and overhearing Nick slay demons in Diablo III while I'm reading QC has piqued my interest in RPGs. I've never really played anything short of Second Life (very briefly) and Neopets (longer than I care to admit lol). Nick has a few copies of older games that he said I can install and I've gotten his feedback but wanted to ask you all what you think. I'm deciding between two right now- Diablo II or Guild Wars. Which one do you think would be the best game to get the feeling of how to play but not be completely overwhelmed? I'm also open to playing online but don't really want to pay for anything (and the lists I've seen are SO LONG, I have no idea where to start)


And, out of curiosity- what was your first RPG?

[ChaoSera]

I'm not entirely sure but I think my first RPG was Gothic II. Also still easily one of the best games I've ever played and I think it'd be a good start for getting into RPGs. The Controls take a bit to get used to but after that it's nothing short of awesome.

On the matter of Diablo II vs. Guild Wars, I've never been a fan of either of those. Tried both and got bored with them pretty quickly, especially Diablo II. But that's just my personal opinion, both games have a pretty big fanbase. But my recommendation would still be Gothic II (or part I, if you want to start with the beginning of the story).

[de_la_Nae]

If we're talking computer/video games...

Out of the 2 choices, I'd say offline / LAN Diablo 2. Guild Wars is fine, but I'd never suggest an online game, let alone an MMO, for someone just starting out. Then again I'm possibly an old fogey.

I've gotta run out the door, but I'll think about it.

[ackblom12]

For video games, it was either Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy for the NES. Can't for the life of me remember which one.

For tabletop it was first edition D&D.

[snalin]

There's RPGs and then there's RPGs. If you want something that introduces you to the part of RPGs that is about the mechanics of making a character and developing it, and having a lot of fun smashing monsters, I'd definitely go with Diablo 2. If exploring a beautiful world, seeing cool sights and such sounds more like your thing, Skyrim is probably a better bet. Be aware that Diablo 2 is so old that there's not much of any tutorial, so you might want somebody that knows how it works to help you through the first five minutes.

Honestly, for a starter experience that has it all, and is has a facinating story to follow, I'd definitely recommend picking up something from Bioware - Dragon Age Origins or Mass Effect are both incredibly good games, and both have easier difficulty settings that will make it less of a hassle if you're not an experienced gamer. DA:O is definitely the more RPG-y of them.

Note that all four games I have listed are very different both in feel, gameplay and appeal. They share experience gaining, inventory and quests to do, so they're all classified as RPGs, but that doesn't mean that enjoying or not enjoying one means that you will feel the same about the others.

If you want a more social experience, Guild Wars (2, you mean Guild Wars 2, right?) is probably a good bet for MMOs, but I'm no expert in that area.

[ackblom12]

I second Mass Effect and Drain Age: Origins, but I'd actually recommend Torchlight II over Diablo II now days.

[Pilchard123]

It's possibly not the type of RPG you mean but I play EVE off-and-on, when there's people I know also playing. (EVE's not very kind to new people though.)

[snalin]

I second Mass Effect and Drain Age: Origins, but I'd actually recommend Torchlight II over Diablo II now days.

While Torchlight might be a better game overall, I think the comparative simplicity of Diablo II makes it a better beginner game. It's been a while since I've played both, but I'm pretty sure there's a ton more visual input during fights in Torchlight II, which might be a bit much to a fresh gamer. Also more skills, more gem combination, etc. Though it might be that Torchlight is more engaging.

If there's time, try both!

[Masterpiece]

The only RPG I liked was Bastion.
Because I could not find anything in that game I didn't like.

[ackblom12]

The reason I would suggest Torchlight II over Diablo II actually has to do with how hard it is to build a bad character, as well as the much more forgiving difficulty options.

I'm not sure I'd call Bastion an RPG, but it's definitely got some light RPG mechanics.

[Parkour Lewis]

Unless you count raiders of the Lost Ark on the atari 2600, then probably Dragon Warrior was my first RPG.

For the beginner, I'd recommend one of the Fable games.  They're easy enough for sonmeone who's never played and RPG before, and action-based so it won't throw you into the deep end of RPG games without a few lessons first, and there's no way you can accidentally screw yourself ona  character build like with Skyrim or Oblivion.  Also the Fable games are basically on all plarforms since you weren't specific to console or PC.

[Nikolai]

Mass Effect was my first RPG, largely due to the fact that I have been a late bloomer to the gaming scene. My latest was Fable III, which I found to have an somewhat dissatisfying ending considering the amount of trouble I went through to have a "Good" playthrough. It was also incredibly short. That being said, I wouldn't mind a couple more playthroughs to see how the different choices effect the outcome.

[lepetitfromage]

Thanks everyone! Lots of good info here

I've got other options but none that my computer will actually run. I'm just starting to work on building another one....it's about time, really. I've upgraded bits and pieces here and there so almost nothing is original, but I've had this computer since '03. 

As far as what I'm looking for- I'm really intrigued by character development and want to be able to explore that. I think I'm gonna give Diablo II a try. Nick played it for years while he was waiting for III to come out so I've definitely got someone to help me out if I need it. I think playing offline might be a better bet for me initially because I don't want to deal with people being asshats while I'm learning something new. They can be asshats after I (kinda) know what I'm doing.

[snalin]

If you want something straight forward that's easy to play, go with barbarian. Don't do necromancer on your first run (because getting your skeleton army stuck in narrow hallways is the worst). Otherwise, have fun!

[de_la_Nae]

Oh god

I loved being a Priest of Rathma, but...the catacombs of Lut Gholein....

[ackblom12]

That actually wasn't so bad once they made skeletons not shit terrible against bosses.

Before then, bosses (Especially Diablo and Duriel) were just the worst fucking thing if you wanted to be a skeleton Necro.

[ankhtahr]

I've never liked any game of the Diablo series. Too much Hack&Slay and I can't get used to the isometric perspective.

My first RPG was Gothic. It's a fairly old game, but still great. You might give it a try. Gothic 2 is great too, but I didn't like Gothic 3.

Gothic's available on GOG by the way.

The Elder Scrolls is a fantastic series too, be it Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind. Oblivion and Morrowind might be a little hard to understand at first (as the character creation/leveling system is complex) but they are great fun. Skyrim is a bit easier to understand, but a fine game too.

[lepetitfromage]

If you want something straight forward that's easy to play, go with barbarian. Don't do necromancer on your first run (because getting your skeleton army stuck in narrow hallways is the worst). Otherwise, have fun!

Ok, this made me seriously lol. I can imagine it would be frustrating but it's amusing to watch in my head.

[Akima]

Honestly, for a starter experience that has it all, and is has a facinating story to follow, I'd definitely recommend picking up something from Bioware - Dragon Age Origins or Mass Effect are both incredibly good games, and both have easier difficulty settings that will make it less of a hassle if you're not an experienced gamer. DA:O is definitely the more RPG-y of them.

You might consider some of Bioware's earlier titles like KotOR and Jade Empire. They are excellent games and available at low prices because they are old. The graphics are dated of course, but the RPG aspects are still there. I actually played KotOR for the first time not long ago, and had a ton of fun.

[dr. nervioso]

kotor I and II are the best games ever, in my opinion.

But then again I like lightsabers a lot

[ThomasEll]

It's possibly not the type of RPG you mean but I play EVE off-and-on, when there's people I know also playing. (EVE's not very kind to new people though.)

EVE is quite easily one of the least newbie friendly games out there. I can't imagine how hard it would be to get into, being both a newbie to the game and gaming.

[de_la_Nae]

The only things less newbie-friendly than EVE are games that aren't in the same language as the player.

Though i will say EVE did incorporate some shitty tutorials a while back that help.

[Pilchard123]

They're talking about rewriting those to make them less terrible. I keep meaning to renew my subscription, but I never get around to it.

[ThomasEll]

To be fair to CCP, they have recently made scanning a whole lot easier to do with the last expansion. Although whether they have changed the tutorials or not is another matter.

[ChaoSera]

From personal experience when I tried EVE a few years ago I can just say: DON'T try it if you don't have a friend who can get you introduced and possibly help you out a bit. The game is insanely complex and hard to get into. I'm an experienced gamer and I even had a friend help me out when I started and I was still overwhelmed and did not really know where to start and what to do.
Personally I even found X3 easier to get behind than EVE. Especially if you don't have any prior experience with gaming and MMOs in particular, EVE is not the right game to get started with.

[GarandMarine]

This is 100% accurate, EVE is a stone cold bitch but it can be quite enjoyable. I'd probably still play if my computer could handle it better. I have quite the stable of ships and all I ever did was fly around shooting stuff, loot and repeat. I did some mining too, but just as a "I need to hang out for a run with the Corp, but it's in a while.... I know I'll leave my ship in position here, and go knock some rocks open while watching a movie!" the not new any more mining frigate was AWESOME for that.

[ChaoSera]

Although that picture is not entirely accurate anymore, because nowadays the learning curve for WoW is virtually non-existent.

[Pilchard123]

(We should totally start a QC corp)

[ThomasEll]

Although the good thing about Eve is that once you make it up the cliff it's not too hard of a game to play, and you get to fly around in the metaphorical bulldozer 

[GarandMarine]

I have a ton of metaphorical bull dozers to pick from at this point! It's great! That's my real hobby in the game. Collecting spaceships. I have my Rifter, my Drake (which is my primary ship and my baby), a Navy Raven my buddy gave me, a Rokh, the entire collection of new destroyers except for Minmatar, an Amarii battlecruiser, a Gallente battlecruiser... oh and the Apocalypse in the garage that still needs to be fit. Yeah it's not conductive to solid skill training, but I don't have the time or personal financial resources to want to train beyond Battleships (not to mention acquire ships past that).

[de_la_Nae]

I have my Rifter...the entire collection of new destroyers except for Minmatar, an Amarii battlecruiser...

Hm...conflicting input...not sure if Amarii dog or not...

[Alex C]

I'd try torchlight II because it's cheap and decent. Recommending RPGs is a tough business because there's several sub-genres and aside from Zelda clones and Rogue-likes I can't think of a genre that benefits more from having played similar games and having a distinct set of gamer instincts built in.


Also, I realized I was old the other day when my nephew was playing an xbox arcade title and I was like "Shoot the red thing!" but he didn't and he died. It was so obvious to me, but I guess not all games are about shooting the red gem anymore. I learned that shit well before I mastered long division.

[GarandMarine]

I have my Rifter...the entire collection of new destroyers except for Minmatar, an Amarii battlecruiser...

Hm...conflicting input...not sure if Amarii dog or not...

That'd be a Gallente dog flying for a Caldari corp. Minmatar ships just don't fit my flight style.

[ankhtahr]

By the way, at the moment Gothic 2 Gold is on sale for $3.99 at gog.com. It's a good game, the second RPG I've played.

[ChaoSera]

By the way, at the moment Gothic 2 Gold is on sale for $3.99 at gog.com. It's a good game, the second RPG I've played.

It's not just a good game, it's the best goddamn RPG ever made. Everybody should have played it at least once.

[ankhtahr]

But I have no idea how good the voice acting is. It's been developed by a German company, so I only played it in German.

But it's true, Gothic II is a fantastic game. Just be prepared to die from the first enemies you encounter. I did.

Also this is is published by GOG.com, so no DRM and compatible with Windows 7.

[ChaoSera]

Just be prepared to die from the first enemies you encounter. I did.

Me too. I'm pretty sure the first time I played, the young wolf you encounter just outside of Xardas' Tower killed me. Then, when I tried again, I went left to the lake and got killed by the goblin there.
Gothic II is pretty hard at some points, but still an incredible game.

[ankhtahr]

Actually I just started a new game. Killed the wolf with the heavy branch, got myself killed by the bandits a few steps later…

[ChaoSera]

Do you play with the addon? If not, you should really get it. It makes the start a little easier and also adds a really awesome new storyline.

[Edguy]

The Elder Scrolls is a fantastic series too, be it Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind. Oblivion and Morrowind might be a little hard to understand at first (as the character creation/leveling system is complex) but they are great fun. Skyrim is a bit easier to understand, but a fine game too.

A little off topic, but I recently started playing Oblivion, as my first time playing a TES game. For such a big, mainstream franchise, it's pretty hardcore RPG. The leveling system is extremely confusing at first, and the amount of interactable stuff that have no purpose is stunning, especially if you're used to games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. And things take time. Oh man.. I feel like I haven't done shit, and I'm like 70 hours in..

[Akima]

That'd be a Gallente dog flying for a Caldari corp.

Gallente chien, n'est ce pas?

[GarandMarine]

Pas, Caldari chien à ce stade, ils ne me laisseront pas traverser la frontière Gallente, peut-être parce que mon français est si pauvre

[ankhtahr]

Do you play with the addon? If not, you should really get it. It makes the start a little easier and also adds a really awesome new storyline.

I've got the Gold Edition from gog.com. I didn't find the original CD anymore (it wasn't a retail one, but a full version giveaway in a gaming magazine).

[snalin]

The Elder Scrolls is a fantastic series too, be it Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind. Oblivion and Morrowind might be a little hard to understand at first (as the character creation/leveling system is complex) but they are great fun. Skyrim is a bit easier to understand, but a fine game too.

A little off topic, but I recently started playing Oblivion, as my first time playing a TES game. For such a big, mainstream franchise, it's pretty hardcore RPG. The leveling system is extremely confusing at first, and the amount of interactable stuff that have no purpose is stunning, especially if you're used to games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. And things take time. Oh man.. I feel like I haven't done shit, and I'm like 70 hours in..

I really keep forgetting how good Oblivion was. I guess it's just both Morrowind and Skyrim being much better games that makes it my least favourite TES game, but that doesn't mean it's not amazing. The npc interaction is the only thing that's not great ("I SAW A MUDCRAB THE OTHER DAY"). I'd recommend some mods - the unofficial patch is great to have, and Oscuro’s Oblivion Overhaul is one of the better mods for any game (It was probably a big part of the maker getting a job with the New Vegas team).

[GarandMarine]

I hated Oblivion and tolerated Morrowind, I freaking loved Skyrim though.

[snalin]

What did you hate about it? Not that I cannot totally see why you would, and I know a lot of people who have genuine complaints about it, just interested in the specifics.

I felt that they really didn't know what they were jumping into when they switched to voice acting over text. The available words used to explain the world dropped to probably a tenth of what they had available for earlier games, and without the kind of refined AI and facial animations that you need to convey more meaning than the dialogue itself, the available depth of the world takes a serious hit. The Shivering Isles expansion really showed that the Bethesda team can learn and grow - it was very well written, with a story and setting they could convey effectively with the engine they had on hand. It far outshines the vanilla game.

The combat was an improvement over Morrowind's, but the scaling AI scaled a bit too well, so you never had any big challenges, and you never really felt that you got that much stronger. Oscuro’s fixes all that, though, and makes the game much more fun.

It's also a real pity that radiant AI didn't make it into the game in the way they wanted - it took too much processing power for the consoles to handle, and it was leading to kinda strange behaviour. Teaching NPCs rudimentary problem solving, but with violence as one of very few tools to solve problems, and you get a lot of murders.

[GarandMarine]

Oblivion just felt... clunky. It didn't engage me at all. The story was kinda weak, they killed off captain picard too fast, the landscape was boring and samey... I dunno. Hard to explain I just could not get into it to save my life.