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Total Members Voted: 66

[Is it cold in here?]

She may be trying to wriggle out from under over-protectiveness. It's a natural and healthy reaction on her part. Agreed that Dora should not undermine Jim.

Considering the escaped bears and kung-fu monks on the streets, CoD might be the safest place in town.

Sam, Dora, phone calls are cheap ...

[Storel]

Is it normal to be that concerned for a 13-year-old? When I was her age I was running about freely =/. She's not exactly a preschooler.

Same for me when I was 13, but parents today are much more paranoid than they were back in the '70s. So yeah, I'd say this was relatively normal for nowadays, although I agree that today's attitudes are too overprotective. Here's an article about one mom's attempt to avoid overprotectiveness, and how she caught hell from a lot of people for it: http://www.freerangekids.com/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-the-subway-alone/

[Neko_Ali]

More to the point, Sam has been shown to be a bit of a rebellious child. The last time she snuck off to hang out at the Coffee of Doom she got into quite a bit of trouble. And Faye is the 'cool aunt' figure who enables shenanigans that will turn Jim's hair even more white. So yeah.. Dora's not in the wrong here. She's being a responsible adult and business owner. The next step of business I'm sure will be a call to Jim. But she has to impress to Sam that she just can't wander into the shop whenever she feels like it to hang out. Especially and go hiding in the cabinets. 

[pwhodges]

Here's an article about one mom's attempt to avoid overprotectiveness, and how she caught hell from a lot of people for it: http://www.freerangekids.com/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-the-subway-alone/

I went to school across town on my own by bus daily at the age of five.

[Loki]

I wish I could post something to that effect, but I had a helicopter dad. I wasn't allowed to go alone to school until seventh grade or so, until my father for once caved under mom's influence.

For comparison, most of the people I knew came to school alone in fifth grade. This is in an urban area which is quite safe, mind you.

It occurs to me now that I might have had more freedom at 13 than Sam does. 

[Redball]

I walked alone to school, about a mile, starting in first grade. Detroit streets were safer in the 40s.

[GarandMarine]

Small children take the metro alone regularly in Japan, but there's cops everywhere and it's pretty safe in general. It was definitely odd to me the first time I saw it though.

[Akima]

I went to school across town on my own by bus daily at the age of five.

This is a cultural attitude as well as one that has changed over time. I cycled to school by myself, though the streets of Australia's largest city, from the age of eleven, and walked to school before that. But, and this is a big but, my parents trusted me to tell them where I was going, go where I was supposed to be going (school, shops etc.), do what I was supposed to be doing, and return directly home. If I had misled them about where I was going, or tried to justify it with weaselly arguments about what "friends" meant... Well, let's just say that I would have regretted it. Chinese parents are immune to kawaii eyes, and don't try to be their kids' best friends. Mine gave me trust and responsibility, but that sprang from my obedience.

Faye is enjoying playing the "cool big sis", but she is undermining Dora, and, indirectly, Jim and adult authority generally. Dora should ring Jim. It is not her call, or Faye's, to decide what it is OK for Jim's daughter to be doing. But hey, this is a comic, right? Rule of Funny, Belisario's Maxim etc. etc.

[Kugai]

So, Faye and Sam are about to spring into action.

[94ssd]

I was definitely allowed to go basically where I wanted at Sam's age as long as I didn't stay out super late. My upbringing wasn't very strict compared to most people's though.

Small children take the metro alone regularly in Japan, but there's cops everywhere and it's pretty safe in general. It was definitely odd to me the first time I saw it though.

My friends and I would ride the Rapid (Cleveland's lame above-ground public transit system) across town just for fun.

[Is it cold in here?]

So, Faye and Sam are about to spring into action.

Unless they turn over a new leaf.

[Method of Madness]

Dora today >>>>>>>>> Dora yesterday.

[Carl-E]

From 2nd grade to 6th (ages 8 to 12), we lived in the tiny village of Rhinebeck in the Hudson River Valley.  It has had one stop light (I think there's a second one, now), a corner tobacconist that sold comics and Playboys on the same rack,  tiny library, a German butcher (Blutwurst, Bockwurst, Sousse... man, that stuff'll kill ya) an IGA grocery, a general store, and a graveyard that went back to the late 1600's when the town was settled. 

I rode my bike to the consolidated county school, about 2 miles, and to friends houses after I stopped in at home and told them where I'd be.  I covered half the damn county by bike, out to the state forest, down to the fairgrounds, explored abandoned houses out in the country, and hung out at the one gas station in town, where people bitched when gas rose to 27 cents a gallon (it was the beginning of the oil embargos...). 


It was a very different time, I'm afraid.  We let our girls pretty much do and go where they wanted, but they needed driven places more often than not, and never really had the same kind of freedom I and my wife had.  But they did OK, and some of the stories I've heard since they've grown would just have made my hair fall out faster if I'd known at the time

[Throg]

One question does spring to mind about Faye's proposed activity is why does Dora let her keep a small machine shop in the back room?

"Why does a coffee shop need a machine shop?" is one of those imponderables, like "Why does God need a starship?"

[Throg]

So, Faye and Sam are about to spring into action.

Unless they turn over a new leaf.

I'm sure they can hammer things out.

[Is it cold in here?]

One question does spring to mind about Faye's proposed activity is why does Dora let her keep a small machine shop in the back room?

"Why does a coffee shop need a machine shop?" is one of those imponderables, like "Why does God need a starship?"

"Shit, why WOULDN'T we have one?"

[jwhouk]

Comic's up.

Somehow, I suddenly feel sorry for Sam.

[GarandMarine]

Awww Sammy.

[J]

that is one cute little girl.


wouldn't quite call that a sword though.

[Carl-E]

"You call that a knoife?  THIS is a knoife..."

~you probably know who. 


Also, the meter changed in panel 3, then changed back.  Creeped me out. 

[Is it cold in here?]

I think there's a lot of underutilized energy in that kid.

[Sorflakne]

The sword looks like an unfinished variant of one of these:

[Loki]

I get a distinct feeling there is something... left unsaid in this conversation.

*silently rolls Sense Motive*

[Lubricus]

The sword looks like an unfinished variant of one of these:

My spontaneous reaction to that picture was "sausage knife". 

[Sidhekin]

My spontaneous reaction to "sausage knife" calls from distant memory the battlecry "beg or be bobbitted!"

[TinPenguin]

wouldn't quite call that a sword though.

Well Faye is responsible enough that she isn't going to let her make a real sword... it's also must be kinda limited what you can make from reshaping a truck spring.

She is definitely the one teaching her bad grammar though.

[Akima]

"Why do you gotta"...  All those years learning your bizarre language, aspiring to speak it "like a native"... Wasted. 

As for the sword... Faye and Sam just need to forge the other one of the pair, and then fit the grips, guards etc. If anything, the blade is a little long for Sam (the length of the wielder's forearm is the key measurement). Gratuitous pic of Liu Yifei just because.

[gopher]

Gratuitous pic of Liu Yifei just because.

May your deity of choice bless you, top photo.

[westrim]

I've been absent the last few days of conversation, but allow me to be briefly opinionated:

Faye's dress looks good, on her and in general- I certainly enjoy the similar ones worn at a local 50s diner. The number of people flinging around severely negative statements about it is really surprising- what is it about fashion that brings forth such vitriol? Would we accept such acerbic attitudes on any other topic? I mean, disliking it is fine, but people were positively juvenile/ fashionista magazine columnist about it.

Pintsize would consider any job that takes place at a sausage fest to be unacceptable. It's all about the ladies.

Sam is awesome, aside from butchering the language. I read a Sociology text recently that tried to justify nonstandard grammar like Ebonics on the grounds that the only necessity is that the meaning be clear, and the conflict between that oversimplification and my own views has made me more sensitive than usual. Other than that, I really like the character.

Dora is reminding me why I dislike her. Such a negative person.

I consider myself quite nerdy, but only in terms of knowledge, not passion. I enjoy, say, Doctor Who (or the history of keyboards, or the various existing types of swordplay), but am dumbfounded at how into it people get. I generally am far better at understanding than regurgitating, so it's often the case that I can follow a conversation but not contribute to it.

I see no problem with a girl Sam's age being so mobile, especially in a small New England town. The number of things modern Americans have convinced themselves are worthy of fear (and their disproportionate responses) never cease to dismay me.

Liability and being  the responsible adult is a wench. 

Am I the only one that caught this? Resisting jokes.

So, Faye and Sam are about to spring into action.

Unless they turn over a new leaf.

I'm sure they can hammer things out.

It's nice seeing those two forge a relationship

[Border Reiver]

"Why do you gotta"...  All those years learning your bizarre language, aspiring to speak it "like a native"... Wasted. 

As for the sword... Faye and Sam just need to forge the other one of the pair, and then fit the grips, guards etc. If anything, the blade is a little long for Sam (the length of the wielder's forearm is the key measurement). Gratuitous pic of Liu Yifei just because.

Akima, the only thing gratuitous about that photo is the paired knives to the left. 

And not to be a spoilsport, but shouldn't the blank still be rather warm? 

Personally, I'm wondering how she's planning to finish the sword off and market it.

[techkid]

Between yesterday's and today's strips I guess I can see a little from all three points of view:

Sam likes to hang around CoD because it gives her a little freedom to be the sort of kid she wants to be (admittedly, Faye is a pretty awesome aunt/big sister). Besides, swords or not, the place is safe for her to be.

Dora, despite objecting to mewling little poo-larvae like Sam (admittedly, she was referring to babies, but sometimes teens can be just as big a bunch of babies ), doesn't actually mind having Sam around. But the kid should be more honest about where she is, which probably annoys her more than the unexpected responsibility. As IICIH said, phone calls are cheap.

Faye also seems to be siding with Dora on this, and probably took a more responsible approach. Teenagers do rebel against authority figures (not all, or at least not all the time), and as anyone soon learns, being told "NO" without reason, explanation or even talking about it is pretty rude, and makes you ask yourself the question "why not?". By distracting Sam with something cool ("SWORDS!"), and then discussing the issue with her, would get Sam thinking about things like honesty and openness.

Well, things haven't progressed that far yet, but that's how I see it.

[ThomasEll]

Sam says she has friends her own age, but it's entirely possible that she doesn't have many friends, or that she isn't particularly close to any of her friends.

[Rimwolf]

"Why do you gotta"...  All those years learning your bizarre language, aspiring to speak it "like a native"... Wasted. 

Not wasted, perhaps incomplete. Faye is using an informal register of American English which seems quite appropriate in conversation with a tween-ager in a back alley on a sensitive topic. That construction has been used in a couple song titles: "... Be So Mean", "... Be So Blind", and shows up several times in the lyrics of "Why You Wanna".

Or perhaps you are overly susceptible to prescriptivist poppycock. (You might find Language Log interesting in many respects, one of which is that it has a lot of posts in the last couple of years about the Chinese languages, and the problems of Chinese/English translation, like this one.)

[TinPenguin]

Sam says she has friends her own age, but it's entirely possible that she doesn't have many friends, or that she isn't particularly close to any of her friends.

It's quite likely she's the kind of kid who has plenty of friends at school, where there's a kind of forced social interaction, but doesn't see them so much at other times. And being an imaginative, adventurous kid, she probably doesn't mind. She definitely seems to prefer hanging out with adults, but adults who can operate on her level, like Faye or Padma (or, in a manner of speaking, Momo).

[someone]

So the kid wants to hang out with Faye and didn't come over to see Dora. I guess Jacques has his limits. Dora was giving her a mom look. If she was to continue acting all tough and disciplinary with the kid, instructing her on responsibility, we would inevitably heard this retort:  Then why does my dad say your girlfriend has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, works when she wants to, gets stoned on the job, has group sex in her dorm, then chases after her employee's ex-girlfriend like a starving, horny vulture with some cheesy line that "I admire the woman you are..." What does my dad mean when he says "Sam, you will see in your life that people with issues are attracted to people with issues. It’s much safer to play with a girl that makes real swords than one that is emotionally like a grenade."

[ThomasEll]

So the kid wants to hang out with Faye and didn't come over to see Dora. I guess Jacques has his limits. Dora was giving her a mom look. If she was to continue acting all tough and disciplinary with the kid, instructing her on responsibility, we would inevitably heard this retort:  Then why does my dad say your girlfriend has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, works when she wants to, gets stoned on the job, has group sex in her dorm, then chases after her employee's ex-girlfriend like a starving, horny vulture with some cheesy line that "I admire the woman you are..." What does my dad mean when he says "Sam, you will see in your life that people with issues are attracted to people with issues. It’s much safer to play with a girl that makes real swords than one that is emotionally like a grenade."

 

I don't really think that the Dora/Tai relationship is quite like that, and I don't really think that Jim would talk to about Dora like that.

Not to mention the fact that Faye is hardly the model of emotional stability

[TRVA123]

Faye also seems to be siding with Dora on this, and probably took a more responsible approach. Teenagers do rebel against authority figures (not all, or at least not all the time), and as anyone soon learns, being told "NO" without reason, explanation or even talking about it is pretty rude, and makes you ask yourself the question "why not?". By distracting Sam with something cool ("SWORDS!"), and then discussing the issue with her, would get Sam thinking about things like honesty and openness.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's completely accurate for this situation. Sam already knows the "why not?" aspects of this.
 "Why not?"
-Because your dad doesn't know where you are
-Because you lied to your dad before you came here
-Because you lied to us.
-Because you need to check with us first
-Because we're not a babysitting service.

Maybe Faye's approach is a better method for getting through to Sam, but this still lets Sam essentially lie to her father and get away with it. again, not a good precedent to set.

[DSL]

So the kid wants to hang out with Faye and didn't come over to see Dora. I guess Jacques has his limits. Dora was giving her a mom look. If she was to continue acting all tough and disciplinary with the kid, instructing her on responsibility, we would inevitably heard this retort:  Then why does my dad say your girlfriend has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, works when she wants to, gets stoned on the job, has group sex in her dorm, then chases after her employee's ex-girlfriend like a starving, horny vulture with some cheesy line that "I admire the woman you are..." What does my dad mean when he says "Sam, you will see in your life that people with issues are attracted to people with issues. It’s much safer to play with a girl that makes real swords than one that is emotionally like a grenade."

Does Jim even know Tai? Or what she said to Dora in a private conversation?

[Loki]

I am almost sure he does not.

Also, I had not expected anyone to be soo... polarized... about Tai.

[Thrudd]

Also, I had not expected anyone to be so... polarized... about Tai.

Nothing they stated was a falsehood.
It all depends on how you look at things.
Really it is just what kind of light you shine on the subject and how you filter what you see.

I don't look at the relationship through rose colored lenses and there will be issues and drama resulting from any number of character flaws from either one.
I also try and avoid use polarized lighting when trying to look at things from all angles but I still get such a crick in the neck.

[DSL]

The statements were accurate. My point was, how would Jim know enough to make them? I can see him being indiscrete enough to say it, either to Sam or within her hearing -- based on how Jeph's drawn him so far -- but we haven't seen that he'd have the information about Tai. We've seen that he knows/thinks he knows enough about Dora to say the other part, true.

[Loki]

Okay, lets address this point by point. Warning, might get messy, as I am on my phone and typing on it sucks.

1. Run by me again how Tai has Narcisstic PD?
2. work behavior: to be fair, it doesnt sound like there is much to do at the library. On the other hand, Marten is shown to impart a lot of knowledge on the interns (I am not going to browse the archives right now, but the strip included something about dental dams, condoms, the black bin and dodgeball). It can safely be assumed that Marten did not get his knowledge out of thin air. It would appear instead that he was taught by a knowledgable superior.
Also, she is hardly out of line in a place where they have extra bins for dental dams and condoms and where a teacher shags the headmistress (or something to that extent).
3. group sex: someone, you say that like its an inherently bad thing. Wtf?
4. going after Dora: as far as I remember, Tai asked Marten for permission. If not before, then at least after the first hint or something like that. That is more than Dora did. Dora was like "Faye doesn't want Marten? Okay lets kiss him. Oh, wait, that happened." Then without missing a beat she was asking Marten "okay, how do we make Faye not kill us both?" Now, my memory may be misleading me on those points; feel free to correct me. But she hardly qualifies as a "vulture" in my books.
5. cheesy line: how is the choice of words important? Instead shouldn't she rather be admired for having the guts to go after her subject of desire, after the last time she opened up to Bailey, Britney orwhatshername she basically had her heart broken?

someone: it sounds like there is at least a little bit of projection involved. Now, as was broadly discussed here during the Marten-Dora-breakup arc, the comic is our collective Rorschach chart, so of course you are welcome to do so. But by talking about characters like this, yo are hurting feelings of people in real life who like that character. Please try and be more attentive to that, okay?

[Thrudd]

Well tabulated Loki, and your phone-fu is better than my keyboard-fu.

"the comic is our collective Rorschach "

A test? But I'm horrible at tests! 

Also apologies for my failed attempts at optics humor in my previous post.

[TRVA123]

I just don't get why Tai was brought up at all.

She doesn't have anything to do with the Sam/Jim/Dora/Faye situation whatsoever.

[FunkyTuba]

My suggestion: don't feed the troll.

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye's dress looks good, on her and in general- I certainly enjoy the similar ones worn at a local 50s diner. The number of people flinging around severely negative statements about it is really surprising- what is it about fashion that brings forth such vitriol? Would we accept such acerbic attitudes on any other topic? I mean, disliking it is fine, but people were positively juvenile/ fashionista magazine columnist about it.

Thank you for a post that made me stop and think.

People are the same way with music. I think they're both tribal identity markers, and humans seem to be deeply hard-wired to be irrational about those.

[Loki]

w00t I got sigged... but I am pretty sure the sentiment wasn't mine. *searches* Yup, found it. I *might* have been the first to comment on it, though. I am not going to sift through the 36 pages of that thread.

[Akima]

Would we accept such acerbic attitudes on any other topic? I mean, disliking it is fine, but people were positively juvenile/ fashionista magazine columnist about it.

Hop over to the Band section of the forum for a sampling. Taste in music, guitars, pickups, pedals, amplifiers... Besides, I'm a Shanghai girl; it's expected.

[DSL]

Faye does seem to have replaced or at least supplemented "the same pair of ratty-ass Chucks (she's) been wearing since (Dora's) known (her.)"

[Kugai]

Soon she'll have her little Conan