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Author Topic: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat  (Read 28752 times)

Akima

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3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« on: 06 May 2013, 03:08 »

I'm not sure that the men who flew in the B-17s* they show in the background would necessarily have approved. It is ironic that people who presumably think of themselves as some sort of libertarians or anarchists should associate themselves with one of the most effective government-military-industrial mobilisations in human history...

*It was the B-24 that was the Liberator, incidentally. Do these people know no history?
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #1 on: 06 May 2013, 10:26 »

*It was the B-24 that was the Liberator, incidentally. Do these people know no history?

...will you marry me?
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #2 on: 06 May 2013, 11:59 »

*It was the B-24 that was the Liberator, incidentally. Do these people know no history?

As a WWII aviation fanatic who can tell you when a Merlin engine is overhead and who has spent countless hours at airshows, nobody knows shit about fuck. There's only one airworthy B-24 anywhere in the world nowadays anyway. She's a J model and is done up in "The Dragon And His Tail" full-fuselage art.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #3 on: 06 May 2013, 12:04 »

*It was the B-24 that was the Liberator, incidentally. Do these people know no history?

As a WWII aviation fanatic who can tell you when a Merlin engine is overhead and who has spent countless hours at airshows, nobody knows shit about fuck. There's only one airworthy B-24 anywhere in the world nowadays anyway. She's a J model and is done up in "The Dragon And His Tail" full-fuselage art.

I find it delightful and ironic that the B-17s... outlasted almost every other wartime bomber design.   You don't see much of anything else fly these days... a single example here and there.   
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #4 on: 06 May 2013, 12:22 »

They were not in general built to last. As long as the mean time between disintegrating from poor construction was greater than the mean time between being shot down they were a success for their operational requirements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #5 on: 06 May 2013, 13:34 »

*It was the B-24 that was the Liberator, incidentally. Do these people know no history?

...will you marry me?

Akima has very high standards for suitors:
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #6 on: 06 May 2013, 13:39 »

Damn, inquiry retracted.  My calligraphy is terrible.  :oops:
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #7 on: 06 May 2013, 15:36 »

Damn, inquiry retracted.  My calligraphy is terrible.  :-[
Same. But at least we don't have to fight to the death! (Also my girlfriend would probably not approve of me fighting for someone else's hand anyway :emotrex: )
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #8 on: 06 May 2013, 22:16 »

I forgot to applaud Akima for pointing out the bomber footage was B-17s, and not B-24s, you'd think finding the right stock footage wouldn't be THAT hard right?

Also according to Wiki, there's two airworthy B-24s in existence, a B-24A named Diamond Lil (18th off the assembly line. Ever.), and Witchcraft, a B-24J who flies with the Commemorative Airforce.

On an aviation nerd note, if I had a magic amount of money that I could own and maintain some classic aircraft with no concern, I'd want a Catalina flying boat and a F4U Corsair in Marine Corps markings.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #9 on: 07 May 2013, 13:05 »

I forgot to applaud Akima for pointing out the bomber footage was B-17s, and not B-24s, you'd think finding the right stock footage wouldn't be THAT hard right?

Also according to Wiki, there's two airworthy B-24s in existence, a B-24A named Diamond Lil (18th off the assembly line. Ever.), and Witchcraft, a B-24J who flies with the Commemorative Airforce.

On an aviation nerd note, if I had a magic amount of money that I could own and maintain some classic aircraft with no concern, I'd want a Catalina flying boat and a F4U Corsair in Marine Corps markings.

Huh, didn't know anyone had restored a B-24A to flying condition! That's awesome news for me to hear. And I've met Witchcraft on a few occasions, that's the one that used to have Dragon And His Tail markings. She visits my town every Memorial Day Weekend with a B-17G, usually Nine-Oh-Nine.



<mod>the following post couldn't be moved to this thread because it also contained gun stuff, but the relevant part is quoted in its correct sequence here:</mod>
I'm not as expert on aircraft as Patrick no doubt is, but I get the History Channel, and saw a programme on TV about the B-24 that is being restored here in Australia. The Liberator was the only heavy bomber operated by the RAAF during the war against Japan, and of course they also flew from bases in China as part of Chenault's 14th Air Force. Besides, it's good to root for the underdog.
« Last Edit: 03 Jun 2013, 06:25 by pwhodges »
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #10 on: 08 May 2013, 10:13 »

I've heard from the owner of a PBY that he regrets buying it, it is far more difficult to keep flying than other comparable warbirds due to the way the frame is built.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #11 on: 09 May 2013, 17:05 »

yeah dude, shit, I coulda told him that. I mean, the wings are mounted to a post sticking up out of the fuselage, and then there's all the structural concessions they had to make for the dorsal gun blisters and the landing gear (assuming it's a PBY-5A or later). Plus the bomb bay, if it has one (I actually have never bothered to look)
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #12 on: 09 May 2013, 17:54 »

yeah dude, shit, I coulda told him that. I mean, the wings are mounted to a post sticking up out of the fuselage, and then there's all the structural concessions they had to make for the dorsal gun blisters and the landing gear (assuming it's a PBY-5A or later). Plus the bomb bay, if it has one (I actually have never bothered to look)
Patrick, how/why did you learn so much about ancient aircraft? Hobby? I was 8 when WWII ended, could tell at that age the difference between the B-17 and B-24 (my mom worked on B-24 engines) and remembered the PBY in postwar years. But I couldn't imagine how a bomb bay was fitted into a hull, and still can't. I had to laugh at the Wikipedia entry, describing how an early design couldn't take off in some circumstances because the tail would partially submerge. Ooops!
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #13 on: 09 May 2013, 18:37 »

After this hurdle is cleared someone is going to come forward demanding protections of copyrighted shapes/patterns.    I foresee Lego leading the pack on that one -- everyone (including myself) foresees a future of toys produced at home.    Companies are going to want to make sure that you can't download a file and xerox 10,000 copies at the flip of a switch. 

That is really interesting. I'm interested if there is any way Lego could leverage it's big machinery of mass production to outprice the home producers - basically making it cheaper to buy blocks than to print blocks. Problem is, of course, that Lego doesn't really sell the simple blocks as much as they are selling themed packs of very specific (and horrendously overpriced for fucking plastic) parts - a star wars ship or a pirate cave or something like that. There's no way those things won't be cheaper to make at home.

It'd also be really interesting to see how far their copyright goes - from what I can see on wikipedia, they have not been able to to successfully sue for damages against companies that produce compatible blocks (the patent is long since expired, and the shapes are too functional to be considered a trademark), so it's very unlikely that they could in any way prevent people with printers from doing that.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #14 on: 10 May 2013, 00:59 »

State Department gets involved.

As long as they make the distinction between "dangerous shapes/designs/patterns" and "dangerous technology" I see no problems going forward.

I don't like the idea of some asshole sitting in a room full of other assholes, all trying to tell me what shapes I'm not allowed to mold plastic into.

Patrick, how/why did you learn so much about ancient aircraft? Hobby? I was 8 when WWII ended, could tell at that age the difference between the B-17 and B-24 (my mom worked on B-24 engines) and remembered the PBY in postwar years. But I couldn't imagine how a bomb bay was fitted into a hull, and still can't. I had to laugh at the Wikipedia entry, describing how an early design couldn't take off in some circumstances because the tail would partially submerge. Ooops!

Before I learned how to play an instrument, I was obsessed with airplanes. I spent every minute of my free time listening to music and reading airplane books. My best days were spent at airshows, talking to all the old pilot vets and sponging up as much info as possible. I played flight sim games on the computer, had box sets of WWII gun camera footage, watched Black Sheep Squadron on History Channel all the time, built plastic models, everything. My favorite airplanes are the North American P-82 and the Northrop P-61A (the P-61B was stupid, how you gonna delete the turret that made the Black Widow so badass in the first place?). My grandpa was the RO in a P-61 on Guadalcanal.

Obsessed, dude.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #15 on: 10 May 2013, 03:39 »

Another P-61 fan.   Fantastic.   Very underrated plane.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #16 on: 10 May 2013, 09:18 »

Before I learned how to play an instrument, I was obsessed with airplanes. I spent every minute of my free time listening to music and reading airplane books. My best days were spent at airshows, talking to all the old pilot vets and sponging up as much info as possible. I played flight sim games on the computer, had box sets of WWII gun camera footage, watched Black Sheep Squadron on History Channel all the time, built plastic models, everything. My favorite airplanes are the North American P-82 and the Northrop P-61A (the P-61B was stupid, how you gonna delete the turret that made the Black Widow so badass in the first place?). My grandpa was the RO in a P-61 on Guadalcanal.

Obsessed, dude.

Patrick makes a point for me that I was thinking about in the transhumanist thread about memorising information.  There's enough accumulated knowledge in that paragraph to supply a lifetime around aircraft; it's with our hobbies and obsessions that we fill our memories now, rather than practical information to get on with life.  Had Patrick gone into aeronautical engineering, all this would be supplemented with even more real-world experience, and may have even been "practical" knowledge.  But the brain fills with what's important to you, and the average person is no longer trying to understand why last years crops didn't do so well (unless you're a farmer, or a garden hobbyist). 

We don't memorize less - it's the things we commit to memory that have changed. 
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #17 on: 10 May 2013, 11:21 »

Before I learned how to play an instrument, I was obsessed with airplanes. I spent every minute of my free time listening to music and reading airplane books. My best days were spent at airshows, talking to all the old pilot vets and sponging up as much info as possible. I played flight sim games on the computer, had box sets of WWII gun camera footage, watched Black Sheep Squadron on History Channel all the time, built plastic models, everything. My favorite airplanes are the North American P-82 and the Northrop P-61A (the P-61B was stupid, how you gonna delete the turret that made the Black Widow so badass in the first place?). My grandpa was the RO in a P-61 on Guadalcanal.

Obsessed, dude.

Neat obsession!
I'd forgotten about those aircraft. I think I confused the P-38 with the P-61 and P-82.
Do you have any interest in the B-26? My stepfather wrote a book, Flak Bait, about the design, production and deployment of that bomber.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #18 on: 10 May 2013, 14:28 »

The Martin Marauder? Yeah, I'm sorta familiar. Twin engine medium bomber, not terribly fast but from what I understand they were used fairly extensively in North Africa and the Med. I built a snap-tite model of one in grade school. I'm pretty sure my dad has a copy of that book, actually, I'll have to ask him though.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #19 on: 29 May 2013, 01:54 »

We are a LONG WAY (20 years) off from being able to print out cups/plates/forks/entire toys at the push of a button.
YMMV on that.

4 of these aircraft (and the observation balloon) are styrene - the rest, 3D prints.


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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2013, 03:43 »

Is the coloring done in print as well, or is that paint?
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #21 on: 29 May 2013, 06:19 »

I think you can print in color in some cases, but it:s specific machines, I personally have seen some amazing 3D printed props/toys that were easily 1:1 scale (toy laser weapons from ME3 for example)
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #22 on: 29 May 2013, 06:55 »

Is the coloring done in print as well, or is that paint?

Paint and decals.

This is a closeup of an unpainted one printed in laser fused nylon (strong, cheap, but coarse grain) - the models are 1/144 so about 2-3 inches wide



This one is of a giant Handley Page O/400 strategic bomber - you can see part of it at the very top of the group picture.

« Last Edit: 29 May 2013, 07:00 by ZoeB »
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #23 on: 30 May 2013, 04:01 »

My dad would flip his shit if he saw those! Before he started work on his real airplane he used to whittle 1:96th scale WWII fighters and bombers from balsa wood and then paint em to match ones he particularly liked, or ones we'd seen together at airshows. I never even thought to make 3D models with a 3D printer til now, funny enough.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #24 on: 30 May 2013, 04:58 »

Zoe B, I'm drooling! I remember seeing a pic of these on another thread a while back - I'm a nut for anything WWI, but especially the planes (I grew up down the road from the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, you should see their collection...). 

I haven't built / painted a model since... well, since I was a kid, I guess (and we're the same age).  But you know how it goes - my car needs a bearing changed, a single lady friend broke her kitchen faucet (I'm the "handy husband" for a merry band of widows and divorcees), my daughter needs transferred to and from her chair, and I've been up three days straight writing online math lessons, grading and selling beer. 


Maybe when I die there'll be some time... :-\ :psyduck:
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #25 on: 30 May 2013, 09:07 »

I did plastic models as a kid. My brother was more of the plane junkie, but I was obsessed with the P-38 and P-61's twin tail boom design. I do believe my parents still have a half-finished P-61 kit of mine floating around their garage somewhere. I'd kind of like to get back into plastic models, but I think I have too many other, more expensive hobbies at the moment.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #26 on: 31 May 2013, 02:41 »

I was obsessed with the P-38 and P-61's twin tail boom design. I do believe my parents still have a half-finished P-61 kit of mine floating around their garage somewhere. I'd kind of like to get back into plastic models, but I think I have too many other, more expensive hobbies at the moment.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/399054/1-300-p-61-black-widow.html

1/300 3D model, printed in resin (nylon powder is too coarse grain)



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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #27 on: 31 May 2013, 02:47 »

My dad would flip his shit if he saw those! Before he started work on his real airplane he used to whittle 1:96th scale WWII fighters and bombers from balsa wood and then paint em to match ones he particularly liked, or ones we'd seen together at airshows. I never even thought to make 3D models with a 3D printer til now, funny enough.

There are now hundreds available in various scales via Shapeways. http://www.shapeways.com/search?q=aircraft

The O/400 is this one - http://www.shapeways.com/model/309852/1-144-handley-page-o-400.html



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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #28 on: 31 May 2013, 12:01 »

So wait.  Zoe, is that your model collection or am I seriously misunderstanding something?
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #29 on: 01 Jun 2013, 00:09 »

So wait.  Zoe, is that your model collection or am I seriously misunderstanding something?

That photo is a small part of it. 1/144 for WWI, 1/200 for WWII (and WWI Zeppelins).




The poster is an original from 1915, and worth a fair bit (4 figures). Picked up at a school fete for $5.









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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #30 on: 01 Jun 2013, 00:27 »

We are a LONG WAY (20 years) off from being able to print out cups/plates/forks/entire toys at the push of a button.
YMMV on that.

well this is simply bull. i had some intensive hands on with a lot of the big name 3D printers at CES, and they CAN print ready to use utensils, play-with-able toys, ect, at the touch of a button. I've seen it with my own eyes.

does it take a while to print? yes, no question about it. but it sure as hell can be done.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #31 on: 01 Jun 2013, 01:30 »

I think the subtext of MDBS's comment was, with over-the-counter, plug & play systems, not the current systems which are some-assembly-and-lots-of-knowledge-required.

Zoe: Oh my god. <3

I really have nothing else to say that wouldn't just be excessive gushing and offers to bear your metaphorical children.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #32 on: 01 Jun 2013, 10:52 »

It's pretty freakin easy to print something. Open your supported 3D CAD program, load your model, click print.
That's it.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #33 on: 01 Jun 2013, 10:58 »

The problem is that the current hobbyist-grade stuff requires a lot of tweaking before it'll reliably get to that point.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #34 on: 01 Jun 2013, 11:03 »

Ah, that's the part I was missing. Can't say anything as far as the setup process goes.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #35 on: 02 Jun 2013, 20:14 »

The poster is an original from 1915, and worth a fair bit (4 figures). Picked up at a school fete for $5.

I recognized it from just the corner in the first photo - I had a copy hung over my bed as a lad. 


I think I found something for my long term goals (bucket) list.  I want to fly something pre-WWII.  Wood, fabric, wire, oil and ... maybe a little prayer. 
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bhtooefr

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #36 on: 02 Jun 2013, 21:46 »

Not actually flying it, and it's not actually pre-WW2, let alone pre-WW1 (being a replica, with a modern Lycoming engine and ailerons) but being a passenger aboard it it:

http://www.wright-b-flyer.org/
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Caspian Sea Monster

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #37 on: 03 Jun 2013, 00:30 »

If I could afford to see the project through to completion, I would be outside right now running spruce through the bandsaw, making wing ribs for a biplane.  Not that big into building something faithfully old school though; more interested in something kind of like a Daisy Mae biplane, but single-place and around a water-cooled inline-6 (based around a Maserati A6GSC alloy block dry-sump model and dual-ignition header, converted into an aero engine proper with twin magnetos, centrifugal supercharger and intercooler, and a Bendix pressure carb; it's like a miniature half-Merlin!  Lycoming opposed engines are boring.)  Doing so is well within my skill, not so much within my wallet.  Never mind that I can't afford to finish my flight training either (my dad is a pilot and payed for me to take lessons when I was a teen, both fixed-wing and rotary - Luscombe 8A and Schweizer 300CB respectively - but stopped due to the cost.  I haven't been flying in over a decade.  :cry:  I am resigned to dicking around in DCS: Warthog and picking my friend's (a flight instructor at WMU) brain for advice.)
« Last Edit: 03 Jun 2013, 00:48 by Caspian Sea Monster »
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #38 on: 03 Jun 2013, 05:02 »

I think I found something for my long term goals (bucket) list.  I want to fly something pre-WWII.  Wood, fabric, wire, oil and ... maybe a little prayer.

New Zealand. It's not just for Hobbits.|

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #40 on: 03 Jun 2013, 13:00 »

Like I said, I used to live near here...


One of our neighbors was a performer at the show, and she offered to take my brother and I up.  Parents wouldn't let us...    but a friend's dairy farm was at the end of the airfield, and so we'd watch the planes when we'd visit, and went to see the whole show a couple times.  There is (well, was, when I was young) a whole WWI "schmaltzy" part of it, complete with sootbag-bombs and a genuine WWI tank (French, I think).  The "black baron", who flew a version of the famous DR-III with a face on the cowl came out poorly in the end, of course.

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KingOfIreland

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #41 on: 03 Jun 2013, 14:12 »

Any love for R/C?

Here's my admittedly rubbishy fixed pitch chopper and his little brother for in my dorm room!


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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #42 on: 03 Jun 2013, 15:13 »

God dammit now I have another thread to actually pay attention to.  You're ruining my life here, Hodges.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #43 on: 03 Jun 2013, 15:28 »

Set the ones you want to notify you of new posts, and then there's essentially no extra work involved. ;)
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Patrick

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #44 on: 03 Jun 2013, 16:44 »

My old man's got 3 of these fuckers, two of which he's actively restoring to flying condition. The third is for parts, which he will be replicating using his in-home machine shop.

http://www.russellw.com/planes/cruisemaster/

I've been helping him a little bit with getting one of them back in the air. The previous owner had done some weird shit to keep her airborne and my dad didn't approve of the work, despite it passing inspection. He's a perfectionist and he wants to make it as fast as it can be, so that means putting it completely "in rig" and that means a lot of nitpicking. He and I have that nitpickiness in common.
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #45 on: 03 Jun 2013, 17:15 »

Those use flat four engines?  Or bigger? 
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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #46 on: 03 Jun 2013, 17:49 »

I've been helping him a little bit with getting one of them back in the air. The previous owner had done some weird shit to keep her airborne and my dad didn't approve of the work, despite it passing inspection. He's a perfectionist and he wants to make it as fast as it can be, so that means putting it completely "in rig" and that means a lot of nitpicking. He and I have that nitpickiness in common.

A neighbor in Tucson snowbirds from Alaska and has a Bellanca Cruisair in Arizona. He took me up for a short flight over the desert one morning, did a roll and a loop, asked me if I wanted to do it again. No thanks, one of each was enough. The first four hours of my flight lessons in the late 50s had been under the influence of Dramamine.

Carl, the photo of the 14-19-2 230 Cruisemaster's engine looks kind of flat.
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Patrick

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #47 on: 03 Jun 2013, 18:22 »

it's a flat 6!

edit to add: My dad's insistent on the bigger engine because he likes the dick-measuring contest of flying faster than his best friend, who flies a Bellanca Viking. Why the Viking is slower, I really don't know, because the Viking easily has 60hp on the Cruisemaster. My guess is that the Viking has a much heavier fully-retractable tricycle landing gear than my dad's tailwheel configuration. All them hydraulic bits and such. Plus, the vertical stabilizer on the Viking is simply enormous. It's so much smaller on the Cruisemaster, even accounting for the outrigger tails. I'd go so far as to estimate it's a 10sq.ft. difference.
« Last Edit: 04 Jun 2013, 04:08 by Patrick »
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bhtooefr

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #48 on: 04 Jun 2013, 02:24 »

Set the ones you want to notify you of new posts, and then there's essentially no extra work involved. ;)
Or I just keep an eye on the "Show new replies to your posts" page.
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Method of Madness

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Re: 3D printer models and aeroplane chat
« Reply #49 on: 04 Jun 2013, 09:31 »

^ That. It's the first thing I check every time I come to the forum, and several times after. (I'll occasionally look for new threads too, but I mostly refresh that page).
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