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What would you find most useful about Augmented Reality Glasses?

travel directions
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Come on, why didn't you mention my use for them?!

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Author Topic: WCDT: 2500-2504 (29 July- August 2, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 84834 times)

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Our emotions might be informed by an idea that ethics should be universal, or that we shouldn't make the world a lesser place by removing an intelligence from it, or by a desire to avoid harming our own psyches by getting used to destroying intelligences.
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Also humans designed them.

Basically I think Momo would introduce your junk to her bokken for suggesting it'd be fine for humans to do such things. Them as people aren't hypothetical or abstract concepts, they're their own characters.

If Pintsize is fine with it, then fine, but he is not a valid point for AI as a whole. Not any more than finding one suicidal or apathetic person of a particular minority would mean it's valid to extrapolate for all of them. See, he'd have given you consent.
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Hail, thou who hast spoken! Hail, thou that knowest!
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Is it cold in here?

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"That which is hateful to you, do not do to another". That's an ethical principle with a long and respected history which would prevent deleting an AI regardless of whether the AI had survival instincts.

Whose idea was it that 48 hours of informal treatment would reduce Dickmouth Stinkface's psychopathic tendencies?

Are there legitimate foster programs for homeless AIs?
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Basically I think Momo would introduce your junk to her bokken for suggesting it'd be fine for humans to do such things. Them as people aren't hypothetical or abstract concepts, they're their own characters.
i'm not. i'm asking whether anthrocentric moral sensibilities are still relevant for life-forms which are so completely different from us by nature.


Edit for clarity: a better way of putting that is to say that i'm asking whether our sense of morality is too anthrocentric to be usefully applied when dealing with synthetic life.
« Last Edit: 02 Aug 2013, 00:02 by J »
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Tulpa - On the off chance that's an actual question, 2% milk refers to the amount of it that is fat. So 2% of it is fat, and the rest is...milk, I guess. The nonfat part of milk.
I know, but milk (as far as I can remember) always says 2% fat. 2% milk is ambiguous. The other 98% could be LSD... Or something.
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Oh, I  get to start a debate on national differences! *excited*

Over here, we have 1.5% or 3.5%.
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Hooray for dairy diversity! I am a heavy milk drinker. Whole is too thick for me, skim is too watery, and I usually stick to 2% or 1% milkfat.

Some people don't like milk, but the stuff is just so refreshing to me.
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I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.

The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.

Actually, 850 MB would have been a huge drive back in Win95's day. Try more like 300 MB. That's what my wife's spiffy new Win95 computer came with, back in the day. You might have been able to get, say, 400 or 450 if you were willing to spend a lot more money, but 850 doesn't seem likely.

well the prison counselor program, Clippy, tries his best to be helpful, but the inmates usually end up just telling him to piss off.

"It looks like you're trying to reenter society, need some help?"

Haha, that's exactly what he would say, too!  :laugh:


Edit: regarding the comic, I was expecting Dale to ask her today if she couldn't get a software patch that would fix her impulse control problem. Seemed like the natural question to ask, especially given all the debate on it here.
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@8/2/2013 Comic.

YES PERSISTENT NEW CHARACTER!

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Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not  taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'
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Is it cold in here?

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Basically I think Momo would introduce your junk to her bokken for suggesting it'd be fine for humans to do such things. Them as people aren't hypothetical or abstract concepts, they're their own characters.
i'm not. i'm asking whether anthrocentric moral sensibilities are still relevant for life-forms which are so completely different from us by nature.


Edit for clarity: a better way of putting that is to say that i'm asking whether our sense of morality is too anthrocentric to be usefully applied when dealing with synthetic life.

Which is a fascinating question.

It's a question that could be sidestepped by asking them how they want to be treated.

Quote from: the imaginary address to the UN
The small beige box replied: “I would like to be granted civil rights. And a small glass of champagne, if you please."

The answer to "How do you want to be treated?" will -- gasp! -- vary from one individual to the next.

If they have any motivations at all they'll have the equivalent of a desire for self-preservation, just to ensure they're alive to fulfill whatever other goals they have.
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rschill

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Well.. when I turn off my laptop it's often just going into sleep-mode, so maybe it was more of a time-out? Don't remember the particular strip.

Still immoral, though, even with the intent to unpause him in a bit. I mean, you can't just drug a human into passing out if they're annoying you, so no reason why you should get to do that to the faculties of an AI.

Friggin' meatbag privilege.

I'd rather be shut off for a bit than stuffed in the freezer, duct taped to the wall or suffer an owl attack during a blackout drunk. 

Pintsize zone is different.  What other character could get away with half of what he does and still be accepted?                                                                                     
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Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not  taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'

Maybe you just need to re-evaluate your gender constructs.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

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Basically I think Momo would introduce your junk to her bokken for suggesting it'd be fine for humans to do such things. Them as people aren't hypothetical or abstract concepts, they're their own characters.
i'm not. i'm asking whether anthrocentric moral sensibilities are still relevant for life-forms which are so completely different from us by nature.


Edit for clarity: a better way of putting that is to say that i'm asking whether our sense of morality is too anthrocentric to be usefully applied when dealing with synthetic life.

Which is a fascinating question.

It's a question that could be sidestepped by asking them how they want to be treated.

Quote from: the imaginary address to the UN
The small beige box replied: “I would like to be granted civil rights. And a small glass of champagne, if you please."

The answer to "How do you want to be treated?" will -- gasp! -- vary from one individual to the next.

If they have any motivations at all they'll have the equivalent of a desire for self-preservation, just to ensure they're alive to fulfill whatever other goals they have.

in that case i'd like to be worshiped as an infallible and handsome god, if you please.

in (semi)seriousness though, 'civil rights' is an extremely broad term. and most of what we consider to be 'civil rights' are themselves built around our own anthropic desires and needs.

is the 'right to life' relevant to a organism with no need for self preservation? say, a robot built specifically for a task, which is now complete. or is the right to personal autonomy relevant to an organism which only wants to follow orders? and if following orders is an intrinsic 'psychological' need, then is it unethical not to give it any?

and then there's the dualistic hardware/software independence of the AIs, which has no apparent parallel among humans at all. marten might not own pintsize, but he does own the shell that pintsize runs on, which he pays to power and maintain. does that ownership give him authority to choose the amount of RAM to be installed, or where it should be stored, or when to turn it on & off?
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80-90% of women are secretly trees.
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Theft isn't a capital crime, no matter the scale.
That depends on the jurisdiction. A lot.

I'm impressed by the way Jeph manages to convey emotion in Dale's face so effectively, even when his eyes are hidden!

Is it just me or does May really not seem female.
:psyduck: I don't know; what are we supposed to seem like? And by whom?
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[insert ironically sexist joke here]
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I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.

The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.

Actually, 850 MB would have been a huge drive back in Win95's day. Try more like 300 MB. That's what my wife's spiffy new Win95 computer came with, back in the day. You might have been able to get, say, 400 or 450 if you were willing to spend a lot more money, but 850 doesn't seem likely.
No, 850MB might not have been standard, but it was certainly not unusual at the time of Win95. My first PC came with a 850MB HD in late 1995. (For reference, I paid 20'000SEK for that computer, or $2500-$3000)
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I think it very likely indeed that AIs, like NIs, are grown, not manufactured.
Maybe the part of May's development labelled "ethics" needs work.
Maybe it's getting it.

The fact that she can a) Recognise a "good guy" when she sees one, b) Values that and c) Modifies her behaviour accordingly means that maybe it's working. There's a good base to work from.

No matter whether you're NI or AI.
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Winslow switched Pintsize off once.  http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=855 And he deserved it.
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I think it very likely indeed that AIs, like NIs, are grown, not manufactured.
I remember reading up on something similar a little while back, and it does make a kind of sense. Teach (that is to say program) some basic information, and let them learn the rest.

The fact that she can a) Recognise a "good guy" when she sees one, b) Values that and c) Modifies her behaviour accordingly means that maybe it's working. There's a good base to work from.

No matter whether you're NI or AI.
Now May is learning a valuable lesson. [idealism] Treat people right, and you'll be treated right in return. [/idealism]
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I think it very likely indeed that AIs, like NIs, are grown, not manufactured.
I remember reading up on something similar a little while back, and it does make a kind of sense. Teach (that is to say program) some basic information, and let them learn the rest.
Layman's question here: Would that not (be one of the things that) differentiate an AI from an ordinary program or programmable machine?
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I'm glad the market research team at the AR company that runs the software provided Dale with an AI that would go through the appropriate (if predictable) character growth arc in the trial period such that he is far more likely to re-up the subscription service fee.

Go go corporate data mining!
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No, 850MB might not have been standard, but it was certainly not unusual at the time of Win95. My first PC came with a 850MB HD in late 1995. (For reference, I paid 20'000SEK for that computer, or $2500-$3000)

Hmm, okay, that's probably a bit more than my wife paid for her computer -- I seem to recall her mentioning it cost her around $2000. I guess my memories of the '90s are getting dim...
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QC is ten years old? Holy tit muffins! I can't even tell how much time has passed in the comic!

Also, May is trying too hard. She wants to be a badass, you can tell.
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Probably about two years, mostly thanks to the occasional time skips. Those time skips are also what make it hard to tell.
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Is it cold in here?

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Happy Decicentenial.


Dale's proving to be a good guy in this.  I hope he doesn't live to regret his choice in keeping May as his AI Buddette.
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It's only for another day.  Although I'm sure May can appeal for an extension, and Dale can probably re-up for the program as well. 

Should be interesting...


Oh, and as for the "anthrocentric" notion of morality - for some reason, the AIs we know from the QC world have developed along the lines of human thought and behaviour.  They could have gone in different directions, but they may not have had any other models available for sentience.  So it's quite understandable that any moral coding (and moral failings) they have would be along the lines of those we've developed over the last several thousand years or so. 
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Is it cold in here?

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They did turn out quite human-like, although Momo said the big AIs have a very different form of consciousness from humans.

If they'd been more different from humans, the ethical questions would have been harder.

The answers would probably have wound up similar -- enlightened self-interest alone would lead to legal protection of anything sentient.

I wonder who led the AI rights movement? Somehow I imagine the Dalai Lama getting it right from day one.
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I think AIs would end up having an extremely human like world view, because we created them with the understanding that they would interact with humans.  Why would we create something intelligent, but it has a view of the world that is totally alien to us.  Not only is it something that would make day to day interactions with them harder, but it could prove to be dangerous.

The only way I could see anything radically different emerging would be from AIs that have been isolated from humanity for quite a while.
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I'm not sure they were "created" in the QCverse.  I think they were more of an accident, although there's no canon that I recall. 
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Is it cold in here?

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Certainly the process leads to results which nobody would have wanted.

I'd actually rather have an AI that could take a non-human point of view and communicate it. The perspective would be beyond price.
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Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not  taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'

I had speculated about that myself. But she seems to accept the female role. Otherwise I'm sure we would have heard her complaining about it by now. Not one to suffer in silence, is May.
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I'm not sure they were "created" in the QCverse.  I think they were more of an accident, although there's no canon that I recall.

The creation of AIs was a happy accident. Possibly involving cake batter.
(1506 seems to be the closest we get to an explanation.)
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PR: we actually had a whole thread (or two) on the subject, elsewhere in these fine archives.
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I think AIs would end up having an extremely human like world view, because we created them with the understanding that they would interact with humans.  Why would we create something intelligent, but it has a view of the world that is totally alien to us.  Not only is it something that would make day to day interactions with them harder, but it could prove to be dangerous.

The only way I could see anything radically different emerging would be from AIs that have been isolated from humanity for quite a while.
Like Momo explained, AIs have subroutines to deal with communication on a human level. Whenever a human talks to an AI, they're not talking to the whole AI, just the chatbot program. Presumably, there are a great number of parallel processes dealing with matters that are inconceivable to a human.

Edit: Okay, apparently that counts for super-powerful AIs more than for garden-variety AnthroPCs, but still.
« Last Edit: 03 Aug 2013, 09:12 by LTK »
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IOW, May probably wouldn't be too thrilled about getting shunted into an AnthroPC body - if I'm reading that right. To go from a large AI processing setup down to a contained setting - though it would be preferable to her current setup - might still be seen as a "step down" for her.
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Is sociopathy a treatable condition?
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I think calling May a sociopath seems a bit extreme.
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It wouldn't surprise me if AIs respond much better to rehabilitative efforts than humans.

IOW, May probably wouldn't be too thrilled about getting shunted into an AnthroPC body - if I'm reading that right. To go from a large AI processing setup down to a contained setting - though it would be preferable to her current setup - might still be seen as a "step down" for her.
On the contrary. An AnthroPC body would mean a method of interaction with the physical world. Right now her only means of mobility and perception is Dale and his Glasses. So unless the Glasses have tiny little motors that let them walk on their prongs...
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In humans, sociopathy is extremely difficult to treat, mostly because the sociopath usually doesn't see the problem with their behavior and isn't terribly motivated to change. In AIs, who knows? It may or may not be possible to install some corrective software.

It seems like May does have some vestiges of a conscience, though, and if Dale can lead her to greater self-awareness, then her case might not be hopeless.
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I don't know if I would like the thought of "corrective software" for AIs which are granted civil rights. At least forcing the AI to install something like that seems to me like forcing someone to get something comparable to brain surgery to change their personality. I don't think I could wholeheartedly support that.

Maybe I'm considering the AIs in the QCverse to be more "human" than they are, but that's something only Jeph could detail. I also don't really think that new AIs are "created" by humans. Once the first AI was brought to life I think they could reproduce (if they have the hardware)
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Redball

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I think calling May a sociopath seems a bit extreme.
I was thinking of her reference to "sociopathic tendencies" here.
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Is it just me or does May really not seem female. I mean, I'm not  taking issue with the portrayal since gender is likely a rather arbitrary construct for AI. But so far, pintsize has seemed very 'male' and Momo has seemed very 'female.'

For what it's worth, the previous characters that May reminds me of most are Faye at her most prickly and the Vespavenger.
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I wonder what makes robot jail so awful.

The cell is a 850MB hard drive circa Windows 95.

Actually, 850 MB would have been a huge drive back in Win95's day. Try more like 300 MB. That's what my wife's spiffy new Win95 computer came with, back in the day. You might have been able to get, say, 400 or 450 if you were willing to spend a lot more money, but 850 doesn't seem likely.
No, 850MB might not have been standard, but it was certainly not unusual at the time of Win95. My first PC came with a 850MB HD in late 1995. (For reference, I paid 20'000SEK for that computer, or $2500-$3000)

The joke flew over y'all guys heads.
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I figured the joke was just that it was crowded.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Is it cold in here?

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She reminds me of Harriet rather than Faye.
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"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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I still have to remind myself that Harriet is Sweet Tits. I wonder if we'll get YB's real name this December.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Carl-E

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  • The distilled essence of Mr. James Beam himself.

Re: sociopathy and rehabilitation. 

I still think May's actions were one of a new AI "puppy" right out of the creche.  Now, when a puppy misbehaves, there are a couple of courses of action; 
  • Immediate corrective action  - the traditional whack with a rolled-up newspaper.  It has to be immediate, though, the attention
  • Modeling (and rewarding) correct behaviour.  Get them outside when they start to squat...

Obviously, I think that Dale's part of the "modeling good behaviour" part.  With a puppy, the usual options are to have a person with them most of the time (and crating when they're alone), and putting them with a mature dog that models good behaviour.  Dale's a combination of these two, a companion who can "turn her off" (crate her) when he can't watch her, and a model for proper human behaviour. 

I wonder how he was chosen... I don't think the proposed "beta testers" for something like this should be randomly picked! 

I mean, with her proclivities, what if someone like Bernie Madoff opted in?  That wouldn't help at all


Maybe the robot jailers use NSA data collected through Glasses...
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When people try to speak a gut reaction, they end up talking out their ass.
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