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Total Members Voted: 93


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Author Topic: WCDT: 2510-2514 (August 12-16, 2013) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 63423 times)

Kisai

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AIs are copyable. Pintsize got backed up to Marten's desktop computer at one point and continued conversing in a Pintsize-like way.

Now that just makes things complicated. Do robots have souls? Do robot BACKUPS have souls? If Marten deletes the backup is it murder? Do robots cry robot tears in the recycle bin?
Depends on how the AIs view themselves.  If they consider the backups as being just that, backups and thus expendable, then I doubt they would consider the backups as having souls or deleting of such as murder (provided the original still existed).  They may even consider their "soul" as something a little different than conventional thinking, perhaps more like their "state of being" (words are failing me there...).  Also, backups would most likely be in a state of "suspended animation" as they're not actively running and thus be unaware of their current situation... so wouldn't be able to cry tears in the recycling bin. ;)



Oh, and hi everyone.

I think this story line probably brought some new readers... if anything to learn more about the AI's. I actually read QC from beginning to end a week ago, and speculated what could happen to "May"
http://t.co/fichS7Pq12 (I did this on an iPad, forgive the crudeness)

My theory is that AI's exist in a state of non-existence, like when you turn off your PC, the state of the RAM is erased (human analogy, when the blood stops to the brain it dies.) To save it, there is a companion storage system for which the "hibernate" image is kept. When an AI transfers from one platform to another, this is the only thing copied. (COW=Copy On Write) otherwise ensures that the AI isn't destroyed from power loss, but may render their last few minutes in a unclean shutdown state if their platform were to be damaged and lost power. This is currently what Virtual Machines do when they migrate from one physical machine to another without shutting down. This image is likely huge and expensive. (IBM Watson has 15TB of RAM, 2880 cores (80 teraflops), and 22TB of Disk space.)

What Momo suggested was ejecting the storage medium prematurely (so the hibernate image is no longer present) and destroying it. Therefor "May" would either be stuck permanently as the companion AI until another storage medium becomes available, or until "set free" and having to find a platform that "May" can afford.

I speculate that either Momo will give May her old platform (the KawaiiPC) at some future point, or May will simply steal/take it and not give it back. Poor Impulse control and such. Another possibility is we simply don't see anymore of the maid hologram, but May takes it that Dale wants to be her friend ( http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2284 ) and assumes a role in Dale's life like Pintsize does with Marten.

One other possibility that does come to mind is we see more "Robot Jail" "May"'s as Dale continuously is selected for the companion AI program. "Nope, not again"

I do like that Jeph has never pushed anything unreasonable about the AI's thus far. Pretty much everything presented in the comic about AI isn't too much of a stretch. Both IBM's Watson, and Siri are primitive AI's but we don't recognize them as anything more than tools right now. Likewise the platforms (chasis) aren't much of a stretch either.
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Welcome, new person! That's an outstanding first post.
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KOK

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http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2512
OMG.  It's happening, it's really happening.  IT IS HAPPENING!!!!!   WE ARE AT HAPPENING DEFCON 5 HERE PEOPLE!!!  I can sense the power of two gamers coming together to form a couple!!!  And it shall be awesome!!!!!

Defcon 5 means deep peace. Nothing exiting going on.
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Dr. ROFLPWN

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Marigold, you should not be scared to talk to boys. You have touched a wiener--you know the male weakness!

And man the part where Jeph mentions that the end of the Dale/May arc will create feels has me worried. May said Robot Jail is horrible, and she clearly doesn't think Dale is... :-\
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Luneward

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What Momo suggested was ejecting the storage medium prematurely (so the hibernate image is no longer present) and destroying it. Therefor "May" would either be stuck permanently as the companion AI until another storage medium becomes available, or until "set free" and having to find a platform that "May" can afford.


Interesting theory.  My problem with that is that as soon as you throw out the storage medium (IE the hard disk and presumably all of May's files), all that remains for a program to run is whatever is in RAM, and unless AIs somehow magically run differently, they can't operate without their files.  You essentially have a brain that only has short term memory, and as soon as it needs anything... boom.  General Protection Fault.  Without some sort of significantly different in-universe computer system where an AI is contained all throughout the system, removal of a hard drive is essentially death - or at least a complete memory wipe (like what may have happened when Pintsize caught a virus).

So my interpretation was that Momo was indeed threatening May with non-existence at that point.
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Welcome back!

Maybe the hibernate file goes on a different disk?
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Alerie Sand

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I am so glad they're patching things up!
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bhtooefr

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You essentially have a brain that only has short term memory, and as soon as it needs anything... boom.  General Protection Fault.

For what it's worth, a General Protection Fault occurs when a program accesses RAM in a way that it's not supposed to.

This would be a disk error.
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ZoeB

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Welcome, new person! That's an outstanding first post.
What he said.
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J

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we don't know how similar computers in qc-world are to our own in terms of capability. it's possible that the entire ai program & all it's essential files are held in RAM, with non-volitile storage only used for backup & save-states.
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FuryoftheStars

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I think this story line probably brought some new readers... if anything to learn more about the AI's. I actually read QC from beginning to end a week ago, and speculated what could happen to "May"
It may have indeed, although personally I think it was just chance for myself.  I followed a link from someone's comment on a different comic a couple weeks ago to find this one and read up through.  Only found the forums last week and lurked a bit.

What Momo suggested was ejecting the storage medium prematurely (so the hibernate image is no longer present) and destroying it. Therefor "May" would either be stuck permanently as the companion AI until another storage medium becomes available, or until "set free" and having to find a platform that "May" can afford.
I agree with everything you say (and in fact, I think you conveyed the idea loads better than I ever could), but I think there is also a third possibility, here.  More than likely, May's output is merely being streamed to Dale's glasses, and likewise anything that happens (input) is being streamed back to her.  Thus, ejecting the HD would cut her off completely and ultimately result in death if destroyed (assuming the Robot Jail doesn't keep automated backups... which I'm sure they probably do).

The reason I suspect her "consciousness" is merely being streamed to Dale is because if she were actually uploaded to the glasses, it would be a security risk of her being able to find a way to download back off and onto something else.  Also, these two strips:
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2499
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2500
The impression I got from these two strips is that she was merely "cut off" from Dale, not actually shutdown or anything.
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Loki

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Marigold, you should not be scared to talk to boys. You have touched a wiener--you know the male weakness!

Nuhuh. That's a male weakness.

Welcome, new people!
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cesium133

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You essentially have a brain that only has short term memory, and as soon as it needs anything... boom.  General Protection Fault.

For what it's worth, a General Protection Fault occurs when a program accesses RAM in a way that it's not supposed to.

This would be a disk error.
If there's an AI military in QC-world, would its commanding officers be General Protection Fault and Colonel Panic?  :psyduck:
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Unofficial character tag thingy for QC

ankhtahr

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Dude I know about General Failure and Major Mistake, but Colonol Panic is so absolutely hilarious!
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cesium133

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I just tried Googling it and it autocorrected it to "Kernel Panic." Google, you're no fun.  :roll:
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WilliamCA

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http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2512
OMG.  It's happening, it's really happening.  IT IS HAPPENING!!!!!   WE ARE AT HAPPENING DEFCON 5 HERE PEOPLE!!!  I can sense the power of two gamers coming together to form a couple!!!  And it shall be awesome!!!!!

Defcon 5 means deep peace. Nothing exiting going on.

Oops.  Sorry about that, i always get those numbers mixed up.  But then again the Happening warning system uses the number system in reverse according to 4chan.  And a question.  Is there really a rule against shipping?  And how was a i shipping?  Its pretty obvious how this is going to turn out.  But either way i look forward to Marigold dating Dale!  I think Marigold deserves someone.  Well OK i think Marten deserves to find happiness a lot more.  OK OK i mean Hanners deserves to at least have a boyfriend more then anyone in the entire cast...geez.
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WilliamCA

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If that is true, then Hanners will be upset. A reasonable number of babies doesn't make itself, you know.
We're working on that technology!

This was pre-Francis, of course, but Hanners did not seem to be averse to the idea of Dale-Marigold flirtation. EDIT -- he crossed what would have been my creepy threshold in that strip, though.

I gotta agree with you, he was going for that creepy, sexy stalker vibe.  The way she was blushing was obvious though.
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WilliamCA

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techkid:
I agree. Talking about factual topics is no problem to me. But as soon as I don't know what to talk about anymore, well then I don't know what to talk about.

My advice (and personal strategy): Go meta.

Cheerfully tell the person "And this is the part of the discussion where it looks like we don't know what to talk about. (I used to know this one guy who could magnificently get himself out of those situations. $anecdote_about_person_you_may_invent|I really hate it when this happens. It feels like $comparison. $vaguely_related_topic_to_comparison_you_just_made|Do you think we should continue the awkward silence, or should we talk about $random_topic? What is the first thing that comes to your mind about $random_topic? I think $own_opinion)."

You have to do it cheerfully. This signals "Hey, you know this is awkward, and I know this is awkward, and we both know that the other knows, so let's laugh about this together!"

This has multiple advantages:
1) Going onto the meta level is not something that people expect. That automatically makes you interesting.
2) The reaction of most people to going onto this level is laughing or at least smiling, because they are surprised and laughing seems to be one of the ways they react to surprising situations. People like it if you make them smile.
3) The other person probably feels about as awkward as you. You are "saving" them from the situation. They will be grateful, possibly not even consciously.
4) In my limited experience, people will surprisingly readily go along with a completely random topic. Random topic should not include controversial stuff like religion, politics, ethics, family, money, health... . Random stuff from your surroundings is good. ("What do you think about gas lanterns/letter boxes/door handles?")

Animals are good too. ("What do you think about dolphins? In my opinion, you cannot trust a species that keeps smiling. Did you ever touch a dolphin? I have too/I never have. $description_of_occasion/We have always only traveled to the mountains. But they have their advantages too - like that one time when $anecdote). BAM, conversation got going again.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to strike up a conversation with the forum.

Oh, that's great. Say, forum, what do you think about the color red? What would you say is your personal ranking of colors? Oh really? That's an interesting choice.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2512

OMG.  It's happening, it's really happening.  IT IS HAPPENING!!!!!   WE ARE AT HAPPENING DEFCON 5 HERE PEOPLE!!!  I can sense the power of two gamers coming together to form a couple!!!  And it shall be awesome!!!!!

Plus i've dated BBWs in the past.  It is great.  I really hope these two get together.  Their power level will be over 9000!!!  Oh and they'll probably be the first couple to get married in comic.  I am calling it!


No shipping please, there is a rule against that somewhere. Out of curiosity, what's a BBW?

Quote
the first couple to get married in comic

That honor is already taken.

Doesn't count.  They aren't main cast
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TheBiscuit

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Oops.  Sorry about that, I always get those numbers mixed up.  But then again the Happening warning system uses the number system in reverse according to 4chan.  And a question.  Is there really a rule against shipping?  And how was a i shipping?  Its pretty obvious how this is going to turn out.  But either way i look forward to Marigold dating Dale!  I think Marigold deserves someone.  Well OK I think Marten deserves to find happiness a lot more.  OK OK i mean Hanners deserves to at least have a boyfriend more then anyone in the entire cast...geez.
The obvious doesn't usually happen in this strip. Also it doesn't seem even remotely obvious to me. They no longer are on hostile terms, that doesn't mean they are gonna date. As for Hannelore, she probably would quite like the idea of a boyfriend, but it's probably still years away if it could ever happen at all. She's still freaked out by most physical contact.
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Border Reiver

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Dude I know about General Failure and Major Mistake, but Colonol Panic is so absolutely hilarious!

But who ever thinks of the poor bloody enlisted personnel?  Where's the love for Private Server I ask you?
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pwhodges

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And a question.  Is there really a rule against shipping?  And how was a i shipping?

Your question reveals that you haven't read the stickies at the top of this forum, and so presumably not the rules either. 

You are strongly discouraged from arbitrary shipping.  However, you can discuss what's going on in the comic (which is rather the point!), and so your remark passes due to that consideration - but the number of exclamation marks you needed to say it was a bad sign.  Read this.
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"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Kugai

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And the Forum Hosts reserve the right to nuke you from orbit.


Ooooh, first date.  :-D
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FuryoftheStars

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[...]nuke you from orbit.
Always when someone says that I can't help but think of this quote:
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. "

It's also one of my more common responses whenever someone asks me if i have any suggestions to solving a problem....
« Last Edit: 15 Aug 2013, 12:01 by FuryoftheStars »
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Kugai

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Yes well, it's better than being hit by Centauri Mass Drivers.
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James The Kugai 

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FuryoftheStars

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*shrug*  Perhaps, but I don't think they had radiation fallout, either... or did they?  I can't recall.  I wouldn't think they did.
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DSL

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Dude I know about General Failure and Major Mistake, but Colonol Panic is so absolutely hilarious!

But who ever thinks of the poor bloody enlisted personnel?  Where's the love for Private Server I ask you?

Private Server is undergoing Corporal Punishment.
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Binary

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Dale and Marigold
Sitting in a tree
L - A - R - P - I - N - G

 :-D
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Dale and Marigold
Sitting in a tree
L - A - R - P - I - N - G

 :-D

C-R-E-E-P-I-N-G
H-I-S-S-I-N-G
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Kisai

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I think this story line probably brought some new readers... if anything to learn more about the AI's. I actually read QC from beginning to end a week ago, and speculated what could happen to "May"
It may have indeed, although personally I think it was just chance for myself.  I followed a link from someone's comment on a different comic a couple weeks ago to find this one and read up through.  Only found the forums last week and lurked a bit.

I read it on an iPad and the click-to-go-forward navigation is troublesome on it. Several people retweeted comics from this story arc, so I'm certain it attracted some new readers.

Quote from: FuryoftheStars
What Momo suggested was ejecting the storage medium prematurely (so the hibernate image is no longer present) and destroying it. Therefor "May" would either be stuck permanently as the companion AI until another storage medium becomes available, or until "set free" and having to find a platform that "May" can afford.
I agree with everything you say (and in fact, I think you conveyed the idea loads better than I ever could), but I think there is also a third possibility, here.  More than likely, May's output is merely being streamed to Dale's glasses, and likewise anything that happens (input) is being streamed back to her.  Thus, ejecting the HD would cut her off completely and ultimately result in death if destroyed (assuming the Robot Jail doesn't keep automated backups... which I'm sure they probably do).

The reason I suspect her "consciousness" is merely being streamed to Dale is because if she were actually uploaded to the glasses, it would be a security risk of her being able to find a way to download back off and onto something else.  Also, these two strips:
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2499
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2500
The impression I got from these two strips is that she was merely "cut off" from Dale, not actually shutdown or anything.

I avoided going there because we don't know much about the glasses. From what is indicated in the comic, the glasses are not even a computer, just a terminal or thin-client. Dale turning off the glasses simply disconnects from the server, the session remains running.

Going back to my comments earlier, a VM or Hibernate image, yes implies that the AI runs entirely from RAM. This is the assumption that the AI itself is not part of a conventional operating system that has "files" in the same context that Windows/Linux does. A comparison is playing a game that doesn't let you rewind/reload, and prevents you from save-scumming. AI's likely evolve in the same manner, where you can't simply "roll back" a personality quirk, otherwise there would be no need for robot-jail, bad AI's could simply be rolled back before they became criminals. In humans, changes happen to our DNA and are propagated to cells and even offspring. This may eventually lead to AI's or Humans that are too "damaged" to function.

Also remember earlier when Pintsize was upgraded to a new chasis, and when he had additional RAM installed. In the former, no changes to Pintsize's personalty changed, while upgrading the RAM did. Though I speculate this just makes an AI able to keep more thoughts in active memory instead of paging out.

Momo's threat to destroy May's storage medium may simply show the same kind of sass that Faye does to other Human characters. Only we don't see it that way. If it actually happened, the OS would likely just say the physical storage medium has been unmounted and would continue to operate and queue writes until it comes back. In a conventional computer this would eventually force the OS to either throw away writes or pause/halt until the drive comes back.
(I'm speaking from experience, as on FreeBSD, if the drive runs out of space, it will continue to run until it consumes the swap file, and then any process with a write pending will be halted until space is available. Windows is a lot less friendly about it.)

At any rate I'm interested to see the fallout from Momo and May interfering with Dale.
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Is it cold in here?

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As regards shipping, the safest speculations to make are those which are best anchored in canon and which are least explicit.

Discussing the comic of course includes discussing the similarity between the story arc about Dale and Marigold and the traditional "boy meets girl" story.


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Loki

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What pray is the "classic" story?
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FuryoftheStars

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I avoided going there because we don't know much about the glasses. From what is indicated in the comic, the glasses are not even a computer, just a terminal or thin-client. Dale turning off the glasses simply disconnects from the server, the session remains running.

Going back to my comments earlier, a VM or Hibernate image, yes implies that the AI runs entirely from RAM.
Yeah, that's exactly how I'm viewing the glasses myself, at least in the context of May being able to interact with the user.  The concept of the jail makes little sense otherwise in my mind.

Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the nitty gritty of VM ware and how it works.  Only within the past 6 months or so have I really begun dealing with XP Mode on Win 7 as my work attempts to upgrade some of our user's laptops to Win 7 64, despite the core software we use being so outdated it won't run on it and upper management refuses to shell out to upgrade it.

At any rate I'm interested to see the fallout from Momo and May interfering with Dale.
That indeed!  Although Marigold doesn't appear like she'd be upset at Momo for what she did, Jeph did mention something about "feels" for this Friday, I believe.  Should be interesting....


What pray is the "classic" story?
Oh, you know...

Boy meets girl...
Boy and girl make love...
Girl turns out to be mate eating alien and devours boy...

Just how these things turn out.... ;)
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Loki

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Oh, that one.
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bhtooefr

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I read it on an iPad and the click-to-go-forward navigation is troublesome on it. Several people retweeted comics from this story arc, so I'm certain it attracted some new readers.
Looks like Jeph (or his webmaster if he isn't the webmaster) could use this library to add support for swiping back and forth through his comics, in addition to the left and right arrow navigation he already has.
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Carl-E

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Hmmm...

Jeph warned about "FEELS!" for friday.  I don't see a date by then, I think it'll be something relatively sweet between Dale and May. 


But I don't think I want to see a Pinnochio ending.  "Oh, Dale, thank you!  Now I can be a real robot!" 

 :-P
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Rghfrgl

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 Maybe the feels have nothing to do with Marigold and Dale. Maybe they're the start of a new arc instead of the end of this one.
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Wait, wait - it's not November is it?

Oh, wait, I know... he does this before he goes out of town for a long weekend, and he can ignore his e-mail inbox.
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"Character is what you are in the Dark." - D.L. Moody
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
Just another Joe like 46

LTK

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I don't think so. It could be something like Prince of Tennis+Mecha.

 A little mistake in the first panel, but Jeph said on Twitter that he'll try to fix it.

 EDIT: Fixed.
Now I want to know what it originally said.
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

Rghfrgl

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Now I want to know what it originally said.

Dale said 'Shut it May' or something to the effect when Momo still had the glasses on and he couldn't hear her.
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Is it cold in here?

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Boy and girl are tossed together by circumstance.

Boy and girl think the worst of each other because of their different backgrounds and fight bitterly.

Boy and girl finally become a couple.

The formula has been used by everyone from Jane Austen to Stanley Weinbaum.

There is a tvtropes article ...
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Thank you, Dr. Karikó.

K1dmor

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Now I want to know what it originally said.

Dale said 'Shut it May' or something to the effect when Momo still had the glasses on and he couldn't hear her.

 Exactly, here's the original:

 
(click to show/hide)
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celticgeek

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"...and a small glass of champaign, please." 
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a 'dèanamh nan saighdean airson cinneadh MacLeòid
We Wear Woad When We Write Code
Ní féidir liom labhairt na Gaeilge.
Seachd reultan, agus seachd clachan, agus aon chraobh geal.

aldonius

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I just reminded myself of the stargazing scenes in HPMoR.

Double feels whammy.
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Squiddlywinx

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I like the title pun. It made me smile.
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mustang6172

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I always imagined Northhampton had more light pollution.
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cesium133

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I don't know about Northampton, but I know here you can see at best a handful of stars because the light pollution is so bad.
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The nerdy comic I update sometimes: Cesium Comics

Unofficial character tag thingy for QC

Perfectly Reasonable

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AIs are copyable. Pintsize got backed up to Marten's desktop computer at one point and continued conversing in a Pintsize-like way.

I think this is a slip on Jeph's part. Everything we've seen since suggests strongly that AIs are not copyable.
Suppose they were. Once you managed to generate a capable and cooperative AI, you could mass reproduce it for all sorts of devices. ReallySmartPhones, for instance. (Wouldn't you like to have an autocorrect that didn't embarrass you?)
But we don't see anything like this in the QCverse. Each AI is a distinct and unique individual.
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What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

GarandMarine

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From Prison Staff
To Dale Whatyerface

Subj: AI Companion Test

The funds have been wired to your account... uh... would you mind keeping her? Like on a regular basis? You have to understand just how quiet things are here without May as she's apparently been designated now.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

Sorflakne

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Dale's already bought her.

Quote
I think this is a slip on Jeph's part. Everything we've seen since suggests strongly that AIs are not copyable.
Suppose they were. Once you managed to generate a capable and cooperative AI, you could mass reproduce it for all sorts of devices. ReallySmartPhones, for instance. (Wouldn't you like to have an autocorrect that didn't embarrass you?)
But we don't see anything like this in the QCverse. Each AI is a distinct and unique individual.
He wasn't copied, he was transferred to another machine so his chassis could be worked on.  No slip up happened.

Besides, there's nothing so far to say that AI is not cognitive, in that perhaps they all start with a base personality, and then learn and evolve as they interact with their owners and environment to develop their own distinct personalities.
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If you want to see what God and Satan look like, look in the mirror.

K1dmor

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 That last panel...

 It brings me memories.
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