Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 21 Jun 2021, 15:14
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: When in Rome, do as the Romans do  (Read 21443 times)

ankhtahr

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,687
  • A hacker spathe night owl
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #100 on: 15 Sep 2013, 06:00 »

hmm. I didn't even consider that tablecloths wouldn't be so commonly used in the US. Every restaurant (except for fast food chains) has them on the table, and I know many households where they're used at all times. Even though at home it's mostly PVC coated ones, which are easy to wipe clean.

I on the other hand have never seen one of these knife rests. We just use the plate.


But now I guess I'll explain what I talked about yesterday/today (depending on timezone and/or interpretation). Studentenverbindungen.

Damn, these things are strange. I've posted about German Schützenvereine some time ago, and about the traditions around them. In a way these Studentenverbindungen (basically the word for fraternities/sororities in German tradition) are similar. They are very set on their traditions, and seem extremely anachronistically for outsiders (and only 1% of the students are members of one). A friend of mine joined one, the main reason for that is that they offer cheap living space for their members. He isn't sure if he wants to stay a member, and he doesn't know if they'd even accept him as a full member, but he experienced quite a lot about them already.
Traditionally Studentenverbindungen practise "academical fencing", something which is only known in this context. Not all still keep this tradition, especially the catholic ones don't, but a large portion still holds it, either voluntarily or mandatory. My friend joined one which is officially "pflichtschlagend", so it's mandatory for everyone to practise academical fencing and to spar with others. Members of a "pflichtschlagende Verbindung" are also required to take part in a minimum number of fights with sharp weapons, the so called "Mensur". The Mensur originates in duelling tradition. If somebody offended you, you could demand satisfaction, and if the other chose so, it would come to a duel. Even after duels were forbidden, the Studentenverbindungen kept doing them, and even demanded that their members would take part in at least 5 to 10. Because of that it was in a way "necessary" to offend somebody, only to fulfill your required number of duels. This lead to the development of an insult which was not considered offensive, but only as a request to fight. This was the beginning of the Mensuren. Nowadays it is forbidden to decide about honour through a fight, but some Verbindungen still inofficially encourage their members to demand satisfaction after an insult.

All these strict rules have been parodied in rules about drinking. Drinking is an even more important aspect of life in a Verbindung nowadays, compared to the fencing. The rules for behaviour are set in so called Comments (pronounced French), and for the official drinking events there are so called "Biercomments". These include rules about drinking games, rules about behaviour toward others, especially higher ranked members, rules about punishments, and traditional songs. Punishments usually include either not getting any more beer (until the punishment is being lifted, which can be for years and is considered extremely degrading) or having to drink a lot more.

My friend is now considering leaving the Verbindung (he isn't a full member yet), because they're drinking too much. In the weeks he has been there, he had only one or two sober evenings per week. On the other nights he had to drink at least about two litres of beer.

Well, and another big problem with some Verbindungen is, well, it's pretty obvious, isn't it? "Trying to hold up German traditions"? While most Verbindungen try to appear multicultural and tolerant, there are some, especially some so called "Burschenschaften", which are not. They are famous for singing e.g. the first stanza of the German national anthem. Singing the first stanza is officially forbidden in Germany, the official anthem is only the third stanza. While the first line of the third stanza can be translated as "Unity and Justice and Freedom for the German fatherland", the first line of the first stanza is "Germany, Germany above everything, everything else in the world". I guess it's obvious as to why this is illegal.

Another concern often raised is sexism in Verbindungen. Most Verbindungen only allow male students to join, but there are a few female Verbindungen, and about 130 mixed ones.

Joining a Verbindung is something I wouldn't even consider. I don't really see the fascination with these "traditions", I couldn't stand the discrimination against others, be it women or members of other Verbindungen, I don't like drinking, and I'd like to decide for myself how to spend my spare time.
Logged
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
He had the look of a lawn mower just after the grass had organised a workers' collective.

Loki

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,532
  • The mischief that dwells within
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #101 on: 15 Sep 2013, 06:27 »

Now that you have explained what Burschenschaften are, I can see why my favourite resident leftist keeps bashing them.
Logged
The future is a weird place and you never know where it will take you.
the careful illusion of shit-togetherness

ankhtahr

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,687
  • A hacker spathe night owl
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #102 on: 15 Sep 2013, 06:30 »

Not all of them are right-wing-extremists, of all types of Verbindungen, there are the most right-wing-extremists in Burschenschaften. Some of the Corps are bad as well. Well, Corps are typically hardliners anyway.
Logged
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
He had the look of a lawn mower just after the grass had organised a workers' collective.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,449
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #103 on: 15 Sep 2013, 06:32 »

Yeah, but then you get the napkin dirty. Also the napkin should be in your lap.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

bhtooefr

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,987
  • ⌘-⌥-⌃-N
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #104 on: 15 Sep 2013, 07:03 »

Well, if you're eating at a buffet, the napkin wouldn't remain in your lap, it'd go on the table, when you go to get more food.

Now, at a full-serivce sit-down restaurant, it's easier to grab the silverware before they take the plate. And multiple courses would usually have more utensils, or they wouldn't take the previous course's plates until they were about to deliver the next course.
Logged

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,449
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #105 on: 15 Sep 2013, 07:24 »

If you're at a buffet and you're getting more food, why does it matter if they take the previous plate?
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Carl-E

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,351
  • The distilled essence of Mr. James Beam himself.
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #106 on: 15 Sep 2013, 08:03 »

Not all of them are right-wing-extremists, of all types of Verbindungen, there are the most right-wing-extremists in Burschenschaften. Some of the Corps are bad as well. Well, Corps are typically hardliners anyway.

Yeah, but then you get the napkin dirty. Also the napkin should be in your lap.


Post whiplash. 

About the ... fraternities.  Many in the US had a similar reputation, but that's abated a lot thanks to the intervention of the universities themselves, and the national orders of which the local fraternities are chapters.  If a fraternity wanted to have a presence at a university campus, they had to conform to the University's requirements.  And so many of the "old ways" (especially the constant underage drinking, incorporated hate practices and hazing) had to be toned down, at least publicly. 

Aside from the service fraternities, they're still pretty much nests of horridness. 

And Paul, we have a set of Noritake knife rests (12 of 'em) from my wife's mother's set, along with most of the service pieces.  We even have the matching china placecards that you'd write the name on with a crayon.  The plates didn't survive well, though - only a few remain, and no cups or saucers. 
Logged
When people try to speak a gut reaction, they end up talking out their ass.

bainidhe_dub

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,449
    • tumblr
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #107 on: 15 Sep 2013, 08:15 »

How chatty are shop workers in the USA? In the shop I work in we've actually been told things like, "Be polite and friendly but don't get Americanised with your service." Referring to the, "What can I get you? Would you like anything else? Is everything okay? Thanks for shopping here. Have a great day!" eagerness people think is done. I know on an individual level it would differ but in general.

When I worked as a cashier at a large chain grocery store (Safeway) we had a whole list of things we were required to say: Good morning/afternoon, how are you today? Did you find everything all right? Paper or plastic bags? (now there is a bag tax so they have to ask if you need any bags. that's the signal for the customer to hand over their reusable bags if they brought any.) Do you have a club card? Your total is ___. (then any coaching through the payment machine) Here's your receipt Mr./Ms. ____. (name is on the receipt if they used their club card) Would you like any assistance in the parking lot with your bags?

For a smaller purchase, it becomes a constant stream of chatter without ever having a conversation with the customer. But they would have "secret shoppers" come through and grade us, so if you skipped any part of the script you'd lose points.
Logged
I am lurking so hard right now. You have no idea.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,449
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #108 on: 15 Sep 2013, 08:20 »

Aside from the service fraternities, they're still pretty much nests of horridness.
I missed the word "aside" at first and was about to strongly object (thought you were specifically calling service fraternities horrid). I rather liked the one I was in.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Loki

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,532
  • The mischief that dwells within
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #109 on: 15 Sep 2013, 08:21 »

For a smaller purchase, it becomes a constant stream of chatter without ever having a conversation with the customer.

That's annoy the hell out of me as a customer.
Logged
The future is a weird place and you never know where it will take you.
the careful illusion of shit-togetherness

bainidhe_dub

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,449
    • tumblr
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #110 on: 15 Sep 2013, 08:29 »

Yeah it felt kind of stupid. Especially having to ask the able-bodied 30-something with two bags and a gallon of milk if they needed any help.
Logged
I am lurking so hard right now. You have no idea.

cesium133

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,014
  • Has a fucked-up browser history
    • Cesium Comics
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #111 on: 15 Sep 2013, 08:29 »

Not all of them are right-wing-extremists, of all types of Verbindungen, there are the most right-wing-extremists in Burschenschaften. Some of the Corps are bad as well. Well, Corps are typically hardliners anyway.

Yeah, but then you get the napkin dirty. Also the napkin should be in your lap.


Post whiplash. 

About the ... fraternities.  Many in the US had a similar reputation, but that's abated a lot thanks to the intervention of the universities themselves, and the national orders of which the local fraternities are chapters.  If a fraternity wanted to have a presence at a university campus, they had to conform to the University's requirements.  And so many of the "old ways" (especially the constant underage drinking, incorporated hate practices and hazing) had to be toned down, at least publicly. 

Aside from the service fraternities, they're still pretty much nests of horridness. 
At the very least, they've had to pretend to tone them down. Supposedly there's no alcohol at any of the fraternities here. I guess the puke piles that show up on the sidewalk in the frat house neighborhood every weekend are due to Alpha-Beta-Whatever's Raw Oyster Fridays...
Logged
The nerdy comic I update sometimes: Cesium Comics

Unofficial character tag thingy for QC

Welu

  • It was me, Austin. It was me all along.
  • Global Moderator
  • comeback tour!
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,756
  • That's a smashing blouse. FELLA!
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #112 on: 15 Sep 2013, 12:53 »

I've had people look at me after I've said, "Excuse me." and not make any effort to move.  :x
...to be fair, the sentence "excuse me" alone is not exactly unambiguous.

I think if you're sitting on the floor of a hall with your legs stretched out, what I'm requesting is obvious. If someone says, "Excuse me." to me and I'm not sure what they want, I ask or at the least ask, "Yes?" I don't turn to look at the person, stay silent while staring for a moment then turn away. Also most people would also consider me rude if I included "Excuse me, can you move, please? / Can I get past, please?" because I've suggested they were being awkward.

How chatty are shop workers in the USA? In the shop I work in we've actually been told things like, "Be polite and friendly but don't get Americanised with your service." Referring to the, "What can I get you? Would you like anything else? Is everything okay? Thanks for shopping here. Have a great day!" eagerness people think is done. I know on an individual level it would differ but in general.

When I worked as a cashier at a large chain grocery store (Safeway) we had a whole list of things we were required to say: Good morning/afternoon, how are you today? Did you find everything all right? Paper or plastic bags? (now there is a bag tax so they have to ask if you need any bags. that's the signal for the customer to hand over their reusable bags if they brought any.) Do you have a club card? Your total is ___. (then any coaching through the payment machine) Here's your receipt Mr./Ms. ____. (name is on the receipt if they used their club card) Would you like any assistance in the parking lot with your bags?

For a smaller purchase, it becomes a constant stream of chatter without ever having a conversation with the customer. But they would have "secret shoppers" come through and grade us, so if you skipped any part of the script you'd lose points.

Sounds similar to here, we get secret shoppers too. The only things I'm obligated to say/do is, "Hello (while smiling). Do you want a bag? Is that everything? Thanks. Goodbye."  Although there's some lenience for people who come straight to the till with no items and want cigarettes or lottery. I'd only ask someone if they needed help with their bags if they seemed unable and/or had a lot of items. Also giving a receipt is hard in my shop. It's only a small convenience with 90% regulars who don't want it. If they need to return something, we'll usually trust a regular or the purchase can be brought up again easily if it's they come back within a couple hours.

Right now we're meant to be trying to sell something which people qualify for after spending a certain amount on particular items but I hate asking customers. I haven't managed to sell on one, except to another worker who pity-bought one.
Logged
Dogs are fuzzy. :wow:
~They/Their/Them~

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,979
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #113 on: 15 Sep 2013, 13:03 »

I'm glad I didn't have a script I had to follow when I worked in Sainsbury's - we did get secret shoppers but they simply looked to see if we were being polite, friendly and helpful. Sometimes if I cheerfully said hello to a customer and they didn't respond, I would take that as my cue and not chat. Other times people would be obviously in the mood to talk so I would do that. I'd have hated any fake interaction that neither person wanted.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

Caspian Sea Monster

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 386
  • The Sourdough Bandit
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #114 on: 15 Sep 2013, 23:00 »

Here's your receipt Mr./Ms. ____. (name is on the receipt if they used their club card)

This ranks unreasonably high on my banes-of-existence list for possibly obvious reasons.

The constant stream of faux conversation grates on my nerves and to that I always make a specific point of shaking the cashier out of their vocal script by actually engaging them in conversation.  Sometimes the cashier looks stunned when you respond "I'm fine, how are you today?" or "I have 20 stitches in my foot.  How're you?"  My regularly scheduled misgendering at Safeway is nothing something I look forward to, though.

As for tableware ('cutlery', in my mind, refers to various knives that do not belong at the table,) eating anything that requires actual cutting is done with a knife in the right hand and fork in the left hand; in both cases, the 'back' of the implement is against the palm of the hand while the index finger runs down the spine to give added leverage, the fork speared downward into the food while the back of the tines act as a guide for the knife.  I always understood this as the "proper" way to eat steak... and also that steak is the only thing you have to eat "properly" because all the ☆☆☆☆ and ☆☆☆☆☆ restaurants where I grew up (or that I knew about or went to, anyway) were steakhouses.  In basically all other circumstances where the fork is involved, it stays in the right hand, held like a spoon or pencil while eating (like the previously linked graphic,) but the edge of it is used to cut apart (smash, really) things like fish and chicken whilst holding it similar to in the fork-and-knife scenario above - pommel in palm, index finger along the edge for strength and/or great justice.  Ultimately neither is the primary way of eating - I'd say at least 60% of my main meals are finger-foods; sandwiches, burritos, pizza, etc.

One of my best friends is mildly germophobic and refuses to eat anything with her hands.  I will never not poke fun at her for, in My Kingdom For A Fork level desperation, eating a donut with a plastic spoon.

"Proper" place setting is a pet peeve of mine.  I know how to "properly" set a table, it was something I was taught in high school.  I want to travel back in time, find the person who invented this asinine way of doing things, and flog them to death.  I'm right handed.  When I set my own table at home, the cup and all of the flatware go on the right side of the plate.  If I'm doing fork-in-left-hand-knife-in-right, then I'll pass the fork hand-to-hand.  My family has just learned to deal with this and not argue with me about it.  In-use silverware sits on the edge of the plate when not in-hand.  We also almost universally serve food buffet-style in this household; most of the food stays in the kitchen, you load up your plate there and bring it to the table.  I don't think this is typical anywhere in the US, we're just weird and/or lazy.

At home, Paper napkins (I know, terribly wasteful) only come from the Lazy Susan in the center of the table when they are needed.  At restaurants the cloth napkin goes in my lap and stays there for the remainder of the meal.

What I'm more interested in is elbows.  I was always told growing up (not necessarily by my parents) that having your elbows on the table while eating is extremely rude and the kind of thing you get flogged for in etiquette schools and at West Point and the like.  This seems insane to me.  My elbows are always up on the table while I'm eating, and it seems like most people I interact with do it too.  Does anyone else have anything to say about that?

I have grown up with self-service gas stations all my life.  Full-service gas stations in California are about as ubiquitous as unicorns.  Meanwhile it is against the law in the state of Oregon (and New Jersey I guess) for various reasons to pump your own gas and I find this completely bizarre.  For also various reasons full-service gas stations make me very uncomfortable.  No, I'd rather pay the machine or the person at the counter in the store.  No, I don't want you fondling my car's nether bits, get the hell away.  Also I didn't know that pump-then-pay was even a thing anywhere in the world - like, seriously?  You trust people that much?  This is unfathomable.

Also, I find squat toilets absolutely terrifying.

Logged
はじめまして、私は刑徒です。

Loki

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,532
  • The mischief that dwells within
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #115 on: 15 Sep 2013, 23:58 »

I think pump-then-pay is the usual way in Germany. I have only seen my favourite ex doing it, and I don't precisely remember.

On the elbows, it's exactly the other way around in Germany (the reasoning suppposedly being to prevent kids doing "nasty stuff" while having the hand in their lap. No, it doesn't make sense to me either.)
Logged
The future is a weird place and you never know where it will take you.
the careful illusion of shit-togetherness

ankhtahr

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,687
  • A hacker spathe night owl
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #116 on: 16 Sep 2013, 00:18 »

Well, having your hands in your lap is considered much worse than having your elbows on the table, but that is considered very rude too. Usually you have your forearms on the edge of the table.

And yes, pump then pay is the usual way in Germany. I'm even confused as to how it works the other way around. How do you know how much to pay, before you filled up? Here you simply drive up to the pump, fill your tank with gas or diesel (I gathered that diesel cars are very uncommon in the US) and then go inside and tell the operator which pump you used (they are numbered). You pay and then drive away. In case you shouldn't pay there are video cameras above every pump, recording your license plate, so the next day you're going to get a visit by the police.
Logged
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
He had the look of a lawn mower just after the grass had organised a workers' collective.

Loki

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,532
  • The mischief that dwells within
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #117 on: 16 Sep 2013, 00:21 »

Speculation: you walk up to the cashier, pay and he "unlocks" a specific pump up to the amount you paid? That's how I'd implement it.
Logged
The future is a weird place and you never know where it will take you.
the careful illusion of shit-togetherness

ankhtahr

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,687
  • A hacker spathe night owl
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #118 on: 16 Sep 2013, 00:29 »

But how do you fill up? I wouldn't know if I'd need 40 or 50 litres (random numbers, our driving school car actually had to be filled by about 60 litres, the Punto of my grandparents only by 35). Here you just fit the nozzle into the car, pull the lever and then there's a small switch, which locks the lever. The lever is released automatically when the tank is full.
Logged
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
He had the look of a lawn mower just after the grass had organised a workers' collective.

Papersatan

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,368
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #119 on: 16 Sep 2013, 00:41 »

Most Americans use a credit or debit card, and most modern gas pumps have a place to swipe the card at the pump, so you swipe it and then pump as much as you need.  If you have to pay cash you have to estimate the amount you will need and in mot places you go into the cashier to pay an tell them which pump you are at.  If you over pay then you have to go back and get change. There was one station in Rochester though which actually had a slot to insert cash at the pump and could give change, like a very expensive vending machine. :)

Most gas stations let you pump then pay in the 90's when gas was 89 cents a gallon and we drove mostly sedans, but as gas prices went up, and fuel tanks got bigger, the risk of someone driving off was higher.  Also I think that as more and more places started taking credit/debit cards it became the normal way to pay and so consumers were open to the idea of swiping their card at the pump instead of going in to pay, because for most consumers they were going to pay with a card anyways, so this is less work. 
Logged
[12:07] ackblom12: hi again honey
[12:08] ackblom12: I'm tired of lookin at that ugly little face

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #120 on: 16 Sep 2013, 01:02 »

Some petrol stations in France (I don't recall coming across it elsewhere) are arranged so that you fill first, but the exit from the station is through the cashier's booth.  This seems eminently sensible, but does mean they can't make extra on things you buy in the shop that the cashier is in - but then, the ones I'm thinking of are part of a supermarket, so you've probably already spent with them.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

ankhtahr

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,687
  • A hacker spathe night owl
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #121 on: 16 Sep 2013, 01:18 »

Well, as there is no real way of leaving without having the police infront of your door very soon, our system works just fine.
Logged
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
He had the look of a lawn mower just after the grass had organised a workers' collective.

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #122 on: 16 Sep 2013, 01:21 »

True; our petrol stations usually have cameras recording your number plate.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Caspian Sea Monster

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 386
  • The Sourdough Bandit
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #123 on: 16 Sep 2013, 02:18 »

Speculation: you walk up to the cashier, pay and he "unlocks" a specific pump up to the amount you paid? That's how I'd implement it.

That's precisely how it works - remotely from the register, obviously.  The pump cuts off either when the tank is full (the back-pressure valve in the fill nozzle kicks it off) or when you hit the pay limit if you paid cash.  Like Papersatan said, if you pay cash and then fill the tank without spending it all, you go back to the cashier to get your change.  Everyone I know generally pays more attention to how many dollars worth of gas they put in rather than how many actual gallons (yes, I know, stupid US unit system.)  That is, after looking around to see which station has the lowest current price.

I also find it mildly amusing that in Europe it's called (in English anyway) 'petrol' while in the US it's 'gas' while neither term is actually very accurate or descriptive.  And no, small diesel cars are also ultra-mega-rare in the state.  Mostly just for large trucks, and most stations that have diesel (not all of them do) only have it at one or two of the pumps.  I don't know if that's normal on the other side of the pond(s).

Having my forearms on the edge of the table hurts after a while.
Logged
はじめまして、私は刑徒です。

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #124 on: 16 Sep 2013, 02:28 »

A modern UK filling station will have both diesel and petrol at every stand; commonly two grades of each (ordinary, and with additives of unknown and unspecified usefulness).  A couple I go to have a few LPG nozzles as well.  And the UK was later embracing diesel than continental Europe (France in particular).
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Pilchard123

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,056
  • I always name them Bitey.
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #125 on: 16 Sep 2013, 02:43 »

I also find it mildly amusing that in Europe it's called (in English anyway) 'petrol' while in the US it's 'gas' while neither term is actually very accurate or descriptive.

Is 'gas' not short for 'gasoline'?
Logged
Piglet wondered how it was that every conversation with Eeyore seemed to go wrong.

Caspian Sea Monster

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 386
  • The Sourdough Bandit
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #126 on: 16 Sep 2013, 02:52 »

...yes.  Derp.  It is, but that's very easily forgotten, I think - including by me, just now.
Logged
はじめまして、私は刑徒です。

LTK

Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #127 on: 16 Sep 2013, 03:24 »

As for tableware ('cutlery', in my mind, refers to various knives that do not belong at the table,)
Huh? That's new to me. I distinctly remember that I was trying to find out the English translation of the Dutch collective noun for forks, knives and spoons (bestek) and it turned out to be cutlery, a word I didn't know before. Why would it refer to kitchen knives?
Logged
Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #128 on: 16 Sep 2013, 04:23 »

They are also cutlery, in that they cut.  I might use the phrases kitchen cutlery and table cutlery to distinguish them - but I would normally use cutlery on its own for table cutlery.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Caspian Sea Monster

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 386
  • The Sourdough Bandit
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #129 on: 16 Sep 2013, 05:03 »

Clarification: Cutlery broadly refers to knives.  Forks and spoons are not knives, therefore I don't consider the set of eating implements typically set at a dining table to collectively qualify as cutlery.  Free association, the first thing that jumps into my mind at the word 'cutlery' is a large shop full of bowie knives and shitty ornamental swords.

In my house growing up they were collectively called silverware, except this stopped making sense to me at some point because they aren't silver.  So unless they are actually silver, I interchangeably call them either flatware or tableware.  There is also the possibility that I'm just dumb though.
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2013, 05:52 by Caspian Sea Monster »
Logged
はじめまして、私は刑徒です。

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #130 on: 16 Sep 2013, 05:19 »

Clarification: Cutlery broadly refers to knives.  Forks and spoons are not knives, therefore I don't consider the set of eating implements typically set at a dining table to collectively qualify as cutlery.

We are, of course, in different countries, and speak different though related languages - so our usages are naturally different as well!

The Oxford English Dictionary says:
Quote from: OED
Cutlery (noun): The craft or trade of a cutler; (collective noun) knives and other wares made or sold by cutlers, esp knives, forks, and spoons for use at table.

The more modern Oxford Dictionary of English is explicit in both our usages:
Quote from: ODE
Cutlery (noun): knives, forks, and spoons used for eating or serving food; (N America) cutting utensils, especially knives.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Caspian Sea Monster

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 386
  • The Sourdough Bandit
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #131 on: 16 Sep 2013, 05:22 »

::mutters something about pants and suspenders::
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2013, 08:44 by Caspian Sea Monster »
Logged
はじめまして、私は刑徒です。

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #132 on: 16 Sep 2013, 05:24 »

Pavement is another good one.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

phLOx

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #133 on: 16 Sep 2013, 05:27 »

Good day peoples.

Some insight to the above mentioned on my current location: South Africa

With regards to table manners concerning cutlery, we use the same method as mostly mentioned. The fork in your left- and the knife in your right hand. Cutting takes place before taking a bite. The many small piece method is also popular for parents to exercise on their children's plates. I'm only speaking from experience though, and there are exceptions. My fiance for one is right handed, yet she still uses the fork in her right hand and her knife is in the left hand. I believe this comes from learning to eat with cutlery, starting out without a knife and holding the fork in the dominant hand.

With regards to tips; most restaurants do not pay their waiters, and they rely solely on tips from patrons. A generally accepted minimum tip is 10%. People that are feeling gracious or have a good income will tip 15% to 20%. Many restaurants have a policy in place, where if your table has six people or more, tip will automatically be included in the bill, generally at 15%.

Finally, talking about the gas stations. We refer to them as a "garage" or as a "petrol station". We also have what is called a "petrol jockey". This person will attend to your needs, be it to fill up, check tire pressure, water, oil etc. etc. Half of the time, if not more often, your windshield will be cleaned during fill-up. Tipping is recommended here but not mandatory. There is no "self service" option when it comes to filling your tank.
Logged

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,449
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #134 on: 16 Sep 2013, 05:34 »

(and New Jersey I guess)
Wasn't sure if Oregon was still true, but yeah, definitely still illegal in Jersey.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Akima

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,318
  • ** 妇女能顶半边天 **
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #135 on: 16 Sep 2013, 07:41 »

Credit cards pretty much all have the embedded chip in Australia now, and the "RFID" ones that you don't have to swipe or insert in a slot are coming in rapidly. I have a credit-card and use it regularly, particularly for shopping on-line. I'm one of those annoying people who pays off their entire balance each month. I am very careful never to carry a balance on which they can charge interest; as everyone knows, their rates are ruinous!

They had similar stuff for the chopsticks at the sushi place I was at recently.
Chopstick rests (hashioki in Japan, kuaizi zuo in China) are common all over East Asia. They're generally a formal dinner or restaurant thing; not something people bother with much at home.

Out in the country, there are still "full service" service-stations in Australia, where they pump the fuel for you, but in the city I don't think I've ever seen one.  I think "servos" all have CCTV recording everyone's number-plates, as PWH described, and I've never heard of "drive aways" being a problem.

Diesel-engined cars are still much less common than petrol here, but they're steadily becoming more popular. Typically a servo will have two pumps that can supply diesel, and the rest will be unleaded petrol (91, 95, or 98 octane (RON), though not all sell the higher grades) or E10 (petrol with 10% ethanol) or LPG (most of our taxis run on it). You still see diesel sold as "distillate" here, especially in country districts, which some visitors find confusing, but that is getting less and less common. Also, in the country, you still find diesel sold in the traditional way, from an isolated pump, unsheltered from the rain, surrounded by oily gravel rather than a paved surface, and often located rather too close to a large dog of the junkyard variety...
Logged
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned." Richard Feynman

ankhtahr

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,687
  • A hacker spathe night owl
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #136 on: 16 Sep 2013, 07:56 »

Well, 92, 95 and 98 octane (ROZ) are the common types here. They are named "Benzin", "Super" and "Super Plus". Diesel is called Diesel, it's named after a German inventor after all.

You'll also get some expensive stuff with additives and an octane number of up to 100.

Diesel is very common here. It costs a bit less than "Benzin", and while you have to pay more vehicle tax, it's generally cheaper to buy a car with a diesel engine if you drive more than 20000 km per year. And you can get almost every car as a diesel if you want to.
Logged
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
He had the look of a lawn mower just after the grass had organised a workers' collective.

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,979
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #137 on: 16 Sep 2013, 08:18 »

I've heard of "flatware" but I always thought it was plates?
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

Grognard

  • Only pretending to work
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,098
  • Token Straight White Conservative Male
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #138 on: 16 Sep 2013, 08:20 »

Here on the US East coast, we have 87 Octane, 89 Octane and 93 Octane.  Different vendors have slightly different mixes for their 89 and 93 octanes, so we get GOLD and SILVER and SUPER...
And then there is Taxed (Road) Diesel, and untaxed offroad (Farm) Diesel.

In NC, you can purchase 103 Octane Racing fuel at some filling stations.
as a teenager, I put some in a walk behind lawn mower. 
Sucker blew a 12" (30cm) blue flame out the exhaust until it ran out of gas.
Made my Dad a little angry.
Logged
Old enough to know better: Still too young to care.  PONG was my 'gateway' game.

Papersatan

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,368
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #139 on: 16 Sep 2013, 08:24 »

I am positive our gas stations have cameras and prosecute people.  I don't think drive offs were very common, but common enough to be annoying, or at least to enter public contiousness.  You have to think in a matter of a few years our gas quadrupled in price, and because of our previous super low gas prices, many people were driving suvs with big tanks and terrible mileage, so a tank of gas in the family vehicle could be $80, and only get you  300 miles, which since we also drive more than people in other countries (for a number of reasons) might not make you a whole week,  (our average commute distance is 16 miles, and an SUV from the start of this century only got 20 mpg *highway*). 

I think though, if I can be a cynic, pre-pay, with the pay at the pump card readers saved gas station owners money, not because they reduced drive offs (which would be prosecuted, though that takes time/money to do) but because it reduced worker load inside the store and therefore the number of workers needed.  It is not uncommon now for gas stations with a store to only have one person working, because there is rarely a line, because we are all serving ourselves at the pump.  I think that drive offs entering the public consciousness just gave a way to justify the change.

There is a whole other conversation to be had on that though, the trend in allowing/forcing consumers to do their own work, (looking at you "self serve check outs) which is not really more convenient for the consumer, but does reduce the number of jobs (and isn't, as it ought to be, increasing the wages for the remaining workers)



Flatware = silverware, but with the notion that it is likely not made of silver.
Logged
[12:07] ackblom12: hi again honey
[12:08] ackblom12: I'm tired of lookin at that ugly little face

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #140 on: 16 Sep 2013, 09:09 »

Here on the US East coast, we have 87 Octane, 89 Octane and 93 Octane.  Different vendors have slightly different mixes for their 89 and 93 octanes, so we get GOLD and SILVER and SUPER...
And then there is Taxed (Road) Diesel, and untaxed offroad (Farm) Diesel.

In the UK all modern petrol cars run on 95 octane (RON) unleaded fuel; it is hard/expensive to get other fuels for classic cars that require them.  (Note that RON figures are about 5 higher than MON figures, which I presume those US ratings use.)

Before the introduction of unleaded petrol, we had four grades: ** = 92 RON, *** = 95 RON, **** = 98 RON, and less commonly ***** = 101 RON (also * = 89 RON, but not for road vehicles).  In those days it mattered to use the appropriate fuel, at least one of high-enough octane.  Now all cars will run on the standard unleaded fuel, but the petrol companies all sell 98 RON "premium" fuel at a higher cost to those who want to pay more for no advantage (and some sell 100 or 101 RON for even more).  In fact, they even sell two grades of diesel, simply to get people to pay more.

We also have farm diesel, which has a red dye in it to enable illegal on-road usage to be detected.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Redball

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,242
  • What's disease? Where?
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #141 on: 16 Sep 2013, 10:46 »

The only place I don't pump my own gasoline is in New Jersey. But I can't call that full-serve because that's all that's done when I pull up to the pump. No windshield wash, no oil or tire pressure check, as in the "old days" before self-serve.
Logged

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,130
  • Fair warning, an avatar change is coming
    • Do They Have To Use Drums?
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #142 on: 16 Sep 2013, 13:52 »

Hodgy, genuine question, why do you know so much about basically everything? Is it actually because of life experience, or are you just a walking, breathing, fountain of knowledge?

Welu

  • It was me, Austin. It was me all along.
  • Global Moderator
  • comeback tour!
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,756
  • That's a smashing blouse. FELLA!
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #143 on: 16 Sep 2013, 13:58 »

I think he's a Mimir.
Logged
Dogs are fuzzy. :wow:
~They/Their/Them~

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #144 on: 16 Sep 2013, 14:12 »

Hodgy, genuine question, why do you know so much about basically everything? Is it actually because of life experience, or are you just a walking, breathing, fountain of knowledge?

Both, of course.  Plus extreme search skills which enable me to produce the answer to things I knew nothing about fast enough to fool you. :wink:

When I quote dictionary entries, of course, I've looked them up.  I have the OED (two versions), Chambers and Merriam-Webster all to hand on my iPhone.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

LTK

Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #145 on: 16 Sep 2013, 14:16 »

The knowledge of a man who possesses over 60 years of life experience as well as finely honed google-fu is formidable indeed.
Logged
Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

Valdís

  • On Probation
  • Duck attack survivor
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Huggable Huldra
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #146 on: 16 Sep 2013, 15:18 »

I think he's a Mimir.

Mímir = The god whose well that was. Not the well itself.
Logged
Now the sayings of the High One are uttered in the hall
for the weal of men, for the woe of Jötuns,
Hail, thou who hast spoken! Hail, thou that knowest!
Hail, ye that have hearkened! Use, thou who hast learned!

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,878
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #147 on: 16 Sep 2013, 15:19 »

Also, wasn't his head cut off and carried around by Odin?  I don't fancy that.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

LeeC

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,834
  • Be excellent to each other, party on Dudes!
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #148 on: 16 Sep 2013, 15:21 »

Sounds like God of War mixed with Lollipop Chainsaw.  It worked well for them.  Why not the all father?
Logged
You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Valdís

  • On Probation
  • Duck attack survivor
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Huggable Huldra
Re: When in Rome, do as the Romans do
« Reply #149 on: 16 Sep 2013, 15:43 »

Well, I suppose it depends on what sacrifices one is willing to make in order to become the most powerful lobbyist in all the realms.
Logged
Now the sayings of the High One are uttered in the hall
for the weal of men, for the woe of Jötuns,
Hail, thou who hast spoken! Hail, thou that knowest!
Hail, ye that have hearkened! Use, thou who hast learned!
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up