Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 22 Oct 2020, 19:52
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12   Go Down

Author Topic: What seemed weird when I visited your country  (Read 47095 times)

Akima

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,283
  • ** 妇女能顶半边天 **
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #450 on: 03 Jun 2014, 19:12 »

Also, from that article - it says that touching the customer will increase your tip. Hell no. If a waiter touched me, I would not tip anything at all. Don't put your hands on me, random stranger.
Eeew! Yes. No touch me! I can't wait for robot waiters quite frankly. I think I'd prefer that to a jetpack. I especially don't like those waiters who insist on introducing themselves to me: "Hi, I'm <insert first name here>, and I'll be serving you tonight." Ugh! So phoney. I do not disdain them, or their service, but random waiters are not my friends. No, I don't especially like using my personal name at work either, but it is so much the custom in Australia that one cannot object without coming off as a weirdo.
Logged
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned." Richard Feynman

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,415
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #451 on: 03 Jun 2014, 19:21 »

Wait, why do you object to someone telling you their name? I'm pretty sure it wasn't your intention, but your post really comes off as "why is the help telling me its name?" in the worst possible way :|

And...how would you work with someone and not tell them your name?
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Akima

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,283
  • ** 妇女能顶半边天 **
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #452 on: 03 Jun 2014, 20:31 »

Wait, why do you object to someone telling you their name? I'm pretty sure it wasn't your intention, but your post really comes off as "why is the help telling me its name?" in the worst possible way :|
Yes, I suppose it does :-(. I carry reactions based on my ancestral culture, which is much more formal and hierarchical than you are probably used to. Within the family, we refer to each other by our titles, not our names. I call my father "Father" (as is common in the West too, of course, although it might be "Dad"), but he calls me "Elder Daughter". Ones personal name is for close friends, so when a random stranger in a professional setting seems to want to assume the status of a friend, it feels intrusive, fake and manipulative. It's not a "the help" status thing, I think, because it grates in the same way when superiors in the workplace insist on using my personal name, and expect me to do the same to them. The boss is not my friend either.

Quote
And...how would you work with someone and not tell them your name?
I said my personal name. That is, as opposed to my surname. What you would probably call your first name or Christian name. Yes, of course I have adopted the Western name order for public purposes, living in Australia, but it still feels wrong, and deep inside my "first name" is still my surname. Because, you know, the family is more important than the individual. ;)
« Last Edit: 03 Jun 2014, 20:52 by Akima »
Logged
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned." Richard Feynman

Pilchard123

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,950
  • I always name them Bitey.
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #453 on: 04 Jun 2014, 00:03 »

I had my hair cut today and didn't leave a tip. I felt a bit guilty, but the cut cost 22. I had been led to believe I would get a 30% discount by booking in advance for an appointment on a Tuesday, and didn't, so I'm choosing to see it as a 30% tip.

You were even more generous than you were expecting to be: it actually works out as a ~43% tip.
Logged
Piglet wondered how it was that every conversation with Eeyore seemed to go wrong.

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,648
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #454 on: 04 Jun 2014, 00:20 »

Within the family, we refer to each other by our titles, not our names. I call my father "Father" (as is common in the West too, of course, although it might be "Dad"), but he calls me "Elder Daughter".

That's not unknown in former generations in England, too.  My father was a bit like that, though not so formally.  I don't recall him ever addressing me by name!  This was probably actually a combination of embarrassment and fear of us children on his part.  My parents' pet names for each other were "Horse" and "Mare" (I won't explain here), and these were also used by family friends - and so for most of my childhood I was called "Foal minor" (my siblings being "Foal major" and "Filly").
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Ben

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #455 on: 04 Jun 2014, 02:48 »

Having spent much of my life in countries where haggling is usual, it doesn't bother me at all. My daughter, even less so.

I don't tip in UK because (a) I don't find it makes any difference at all to service (b) I'm strongly opposed to the persistent attempts to introduce it as a scam by the owner (c) I'm just a skinflint

I tip in US because that what you do there

I usually follow the expat line that pestering Kemo Sabe fir baksheesh will get you nowhere, full stop.
Logged

GarandMarine

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,308
  • Kawaii in the streets, Senpai in the sheets
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #456 on: 04 Jun 2014, 05:20 »

Wait, why do you object to someone telling you their name? I'm pretty sure it wasn't your intention, but your post really comes off as "why is the help telling me its name?" in the worst possible way :|
Yes, I suppose it does :-(. I carry reactions based on my ancestral culture, which is much more formal and hierarchical than you are probably used to. Within the family, we refer to each other by our titles, not our names. I call my father "Father" (as is common in the West too, of course, although it might be "Dad"), but he calls me "Elder Daughter". Ones personal name is for close friends, so when a random stranger in a professional setting seems to want to assume the status of a friend, it feels intrusive, fake and manipulative. It's not a "the help" status thing, I think, because it grates in the same way when superiors in the workplace insist on using my personal name, and expect me to do the same to them. The boss is not my friend either.

I have similar issues with this though my family doesn't really use titles. (Dad's still "sir" though. Mom's just Mom.). It bothers me when my boss or boss's boss want me to call them by their first names. I usually settle by calling them "boss" or something similar with a more informal feel then sir or ma'am. Like chief. It's a work around, but one that frustrates me. My part time staff are sure as shit not calling me by my first name. I'm your employer, not your buddy. If you're full time that might change.
Logged
I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,415
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #457 on: 04 Jun 2014, 05:25 »

See, I kind of find it funny, because people who know me to pretty much any degree call me Eric. But my closest friends? Those are the ones that call me by my last name! Also, I find it depressing when someone says that "x is not my friend" in a context where you don't have a reason to dislike x. Why isn't x your friend? Why can't they be your friend for a little while? Not having everyone be your friend to some degree by default sounds like an awful way to live.

So Akima, do you expect people to call you just by your surname, or do you wish them to add "Ms." in front of it? Because calling someone by just their surname seems extremely familiar, but that's probably how you feel about just using a given name.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

LTK

Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #458 on: 04 Jun 2014, 05:34 »

It can vary within countries as well. I was so surprised to hear a girl I knew address her mother with the formal personal pronoun, which is usually used for unknown elders or teachers and the like. At university everything's back to being informal, though.
Logged
Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

Neko_Ali

Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #459 on: 04 Jun 2014, 05:51 »

The boss/friend dynamic can be difficult for people to separate, at least in the US. I mean, I never had a problem with it.. Work and leisure time are separate things. Some of it is cultural stereotyping. It's all over media, the adversarial relationship between employee and employer. The latter of which doesn't want to be there and does the least possible to get by, while 'the man' is trying to force extra onto you. It's a horrible work ethic that has to much basis in reality. When you have bosses who are friends, then the theory goes they are supposed to let you slide and get away with more, which just makes things bad all around. So the typical thing is, 'I am  your boss, not your friend.' to avoid any accusations of nepotism.
Logged

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #460 on: 04 Jun 2014, 06:04 »

Maybe I'm more informal than others, but I prefer for most people to use my first name. When I was student teaching, it was so weird to get used to the way that students referred to me. I told them they could call me "Ms. D"- a little less formal but still maintains the right dynamic for student teaching. If/when I ever get a REAL teaching job, I've even considered allowing my students to call me by my first name. There's a certain comfort in it.


And looking at that billshrink page: wedding musicians, really?

You stick the word "wedding" in front of anything and they will find a reason to charge you more. You're supposed to tip all of your wedding vendors, even though they're taking an arm and a leg in the first place.
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

LTK

Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #461 on: 04 Jun 2014, 06:51 »

In case of weddings, isn't it way easier to, y'know, not tip them? What are those wedding musicians/florists/caterers/whatever going to do, tell all their friends to avoid you the next time you're getting married?
Logged
Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

ankhtahr

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,679
  • A hacker spathe night owl
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #462 on: 04 Jun 2014, 07:01 »

It's very interesting when you're spending a lot of time in hackerspaces, as some people are more comfortable with nicknames than with given names, so you get used to being referred to by your nickname. There are a few people where I don't even know their real names.

Tutors (students who teach lower grade students) almost always want to be referred to by their first name, same goes for everyone in the Fachschaft. And then there is this one professor who hates his last name and asks everybody to call him by his first name.
Logged
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
He had the look of a lawn mower just after the grass had organised a workers' collective.

bainidhe_dub

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,449
    • tumblr
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #463 on: 04 Jun 2014, 07:30 »

A lot of times the guy actually working at your wedding is just some grunt from the company you have a contract with. It's kind of like tipping waiters in that you're thanking the individual for their service to you, while still paying the establishment for your meal. I wouldn't say it's expected but my husband definitely gets tips sometimes when he runs lights for weddings and bar mitzvahs, usually like $50 when it happens.
Logged
I am lurking so hard right now. You have no idea.

Loki

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,532
  • The mischief that dwells within
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #464 on: 04 Jun 2014, 07:46 »

Tutors (students who teach lower grade students) almost always want to be referred to by their first name
Well duh, they are students :roll: Same goes for professor assistants, by the way, which I believe is equivalent to a TA in the US.
Logged
The future is a weird place and you never know where it will take you.
the careful illusion of shit-togetherness

Grognard

  • Only pretending to work
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,069
  • Token Straight White Conservative Male
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #465 on: 04 Jun 2014, 09:15 »

here's a tidbit...

at my work, everyone calls me "Mr. Grognard".
but then, I call them by their ranks.

referring to me as "Mister" makes me feel old.
but then: I am the oldest person in the office.
Logged
Old enough to know better: Still too young to care.  PONG was my 'gateway' game.

Mlle Germain

  • Cthulhu f'tagn
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 516
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #466 on: 04 Jun 2014, 09:59 »

See, I kind of find it funny, because people who know me to pretty much any degree call me Eric. But my closest friends? Those are the ones that call me by my last name! Also, I find it depressing when someone says that "x is not my friend" in a context where you don't have a reason to dislike x. Why isn't x your friend? Why can't they be your friend for a little while? Not having everyone be your friend to some degree by default sounds like an awful way to live.
I totally disagree. (I realise this might well be a language/culture thing and I think it is an interesting thing to explore in this thread! Probably friend means something different to you than it does to me.)
Somebody not being my friend does absolutely not mean I dislike them. I like a lot of people very well that I just do not know well enough to call them "friend". My friends are people who I regularly spend time with outside of work/university and probably also other regularly scheduled activities like team sports, whose private life I am interested and invested in, who I keep in contact with because I genuinely enjoy their company and they are important to me, whom I will help if they ever run into trouble, who I will rely on to help me if I am in trouble. Of course I met most of my friends at university or via hobbies, but just knowing someone from there doesn't make them a friend, it makes them an acquaintance. There is not enough time in my life to have more than, say, roughly ten to fifteen actual friends.
Of course I won't say to anybody: "My friend quota is full, go away." That's not how it works. If it so happens, I will spend more time with them and get to know them better and we will become friends.

And at work, trying to be friends with your collegues can be very annoying and bad for the work environment: Let's face it - you don't spend time with each other because you enjoy each other's company, but because you're being paid to. You have work to do and your job (or especially the bosses job) is to make sure everything is running smoothly and effectively. Friendship has nothing to do with it. And one shouldn't confuse a work relationship with friendship; that is really not fair on the other person.
Of course you can be friends with your collegues outside work, but at work that shouldn't play any role. Also, I am not a fan of employees being urged to spend time together outside work to bond or whatever - it is a job. You have every right to keep it separate from your private life and it absolutely doesn't make you a bad employee.

About how you address other people: The UK is turning out to be way less formal that way than Germany, at least on the surface. At uni in Germany, everybody says "Sie", the German formal personal pronoun, and students address professors (actual professors, not tutors or postdocs, usually) by their last names by default, and the same the other way round. If you work together on research, that's different. Then people will usually use first names and "du", the informal personal pronoun. The default thing for people you meet in a business setting (not via friends or sports or hobbies, there it's usually "du") or on the streets is to address them with "Sie" and "Herr"(Mr) or "Frau"(Ms) + last name. That is not considered overly formal at all.
Teachers start calling their students "Sie" from 11th grade (17) onwards, though usually in combination with the first name (students always call teachers "Sie" and Mr/Ms last name at least at school).
I actually get annoyed when people in Germany that I don't know (in shops, at the doctor's etc.) address me with "du", because that means they treat me like a child. At almost 23, that's kind of annoying.
The only situation where it's really awkward is with your friends' parents - I never know how to address them. I usually either go with "Sie" to be safe until I am told to use "du" or I formulate all my sentences in a way that avoids addressing them at all. My parents say "Sie" to my friends (which I and also my friends usually still find weird at our age. My friends then tell them to use "du"). Usually going from "Sie" to "du" is a mutual thing that is mostly offered by the more senior person, though.

In the UK, this seems to be vastly different and people seem to call each other by their first names almost immediately, regardless whether the setting is business or private. For me, it still feels weird to address my professors at university with their first name, but I am getting used to it. When I contact someone for the first time, I still always address them as Mr/Ms, Dr, Professor etc., and then when they reply, I will address them similarly to how they addressed me or how they signed their message the next time. I guess people from Germany who are used to using first names only in a pretty familiar setting have to be a bit careful not to confuse calling someone by their firstname with actually being on familiar terms with them.

Oh god, this is a wall of text :-o Sorry...

Edit: I now after rereading Garand's post, I still have something to add: To me it feels very weird to address your parents in a formal way or even by their first names (again a cultural thing, I am sure). A few friends of mine call their parents by their first names and it just feels so... I don't know, unfamiliar. I call my parents "Mama" and "Papa", the German versions of Mum and Dad. And they usually call me little kid nicknames that can be kind of embarrassing in front of other people, but I don't actually mind, because they're my parents and so they're allowed to call me things I would let noone else call me.
« Last Edit: 04 Jun 2014, 10:04 by Mlle Germain »
Logged

nekowafer

  • [email protected]*& ^$%O
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,926
  • fuck the secret sauce I'm gothalicious with cheese
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #467 on: 04 Jun 2014, 10:25 »

I'm basically always called by a nickname by people who know me - mostly because my first name is difficult to pronounce. I am used to working in non-formal settings (retail, specifically Hot Topic, where most of my customers were teenagers), where calling me by my last name would have been far too formal. Now I work with physicians. I call them Dr. [last name], and they call me Elesia or Miss Bowers. And it's weird being called the latter, as it makes me feel kind of old.

Basically I have never been in an actual formal setting and wouldn't know what to do with myself were I to be put in one.

My parents are still mommy and daddy. My brother goes by his nickname, my sister by her first name.

Oh and for most of my childhood I went by my middle name, Lynne (or Lynnie), which is far easier to pronounce.
Logged
what she said was sad, but then, all the rejections she's had, to pretend to be happy could only be idiocy

Pilchard123

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,950
  • I always name them Bitey.
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #468 on: 04 Jun 2014, 11:21 »

UKian here. Both jobs I've had have been first-name jobs with everyone in the office, with the exception of those with the same first name. Then it's usually 'FirstName SurnameInitial' (Bob A and Bob B) or NonoffensiveDistinctiveFeature FirstName (Small Bob and Tall Bob).
Logged
Piglet wondered how it was that every conversation with Eeyore seemed to go wrong.

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,979
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #469 on: 04 Jun 2014, 12:21 »

I have called almost everyone by their first name since I was sixteen (not because that was the age cut off for doing so, but because at 16 I moved to a sixth form college where teachers went by first names). Almost all my lecturers and supervisors at both universities use their first names - we would sometimes refer to lecturers who we didn't know personally by their surnames between students, but never had cause to address them so I don't know what we'd have said to their face. Probably Dr/Professor Surname, because we hadn't been introduced.

I actually can't think of a single instance where I call someone by their title and surname. Possibly my doctor - I don't know his first name. Then again I can't usually remember his surname either. I call my mentors by their first names. Some of the doctors in the hospital go by first names, some by last, some by nicknames. I never know who any of them are anyway.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

lepetitfromage

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,267
  • addicted to the shindig
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #470 on: 04 Jun 2014, 13:19 »

My parents are still mommy and daddy.

Mine too. They will always be mommy and daddy.
Logged
If you try to take all the steps at once, you'll fall over.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,415
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #471 on: 04 Jun 2014, 13:21 »

Mine have always been mom and dad...although I occasionally call my dad "Johnny" (his name is John). Not really sure how it started, and it's usually as a greeting (not during a conversation). He's never objected, my sister sometimes calls him that too. (shrugs)
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Welu

  • It was me, Austin. It was me all along.
  • Global Moderator
  • comeback tour!
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,748
  • That's a smashing blouse. FELLA!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #472 on: 04 Jun 2014, 13:21 »

Oh and for most of my childhood I went by my middle name, Lynne (or Lynnie), which is far easier to pronounce.

Neat coincidence in our names. Whoop!
Logged
Dogs are fuzzy. :wow:
~They/Their/Them~

nekowafer

  • [email protected]*& ^$%O
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,926
  • fuck the secret sauce I'm gothalicious with cheese
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #473 on: 04 Jun 2014, 13:31 »

I know right! I've actually never known anyone else that goes by Lynnie.
Logged
what she said was sad, but then, all the rejections she's had, to pretend to be happy could only be idiocy

Welu

  • It was me, Austin. It was me all along.
  • Global Moderator
  • comeback tour!
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,748
  • That's a smashing blouse. FELLA!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #474 on: 04 Jun 2014, 13:35 »

I much prefer "Lynnie" to "Lynn", which is how my parents spell my name. Although it took me a long time to get comfortable introducing myself by it because almost everyone mishears it as "Lilly". :psyduck: Now I'm more confident to repeat it till they get it right.
Logged
Dogs are fuzzy. :wow:
~They/Their/Them~

bhtooefr

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,880
  • ⌘-⌥-⌃-N
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #475 on: 04 Jun 2014, 13:43 »

Teachers were almost always family name, instructors at the technical college I went to were sometimes given name, sometimes family name. (I'm going to try to use given/family name due to how different languages handle the ordering of them, and also trying to avoid hardcoding middle-endianness into my language (although personal names in Western languages are only middle-endian at a byte level, at least, unlike, say, American dates).)

Except for a strange phase I went through when I was like 6, I used "mom" and "dad".

And, I'm used to given name taking precedence, so someone may be introduced as John Doe, but I'd refer to him as John (and he'd refer to me as Eric), not Mr. Doe, typically, even in the professional contexts that I'm usually in.
Logged

Masterpiece

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,364
  • No time for Claireification
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #476 on: 04 Jun 2014, 14:08 »

My parents are still "Baba" and "Mama".

Oh man that reminds me of a thing my dad and I used to do. My dad works every weekday (Saturday included), and always came home at seven/eight. We live in an apartment building, so he'd ring the doorbell and I'd check on the speaker, saying "who is it?" and he'd say "Baba" but in a weird way, not emphasizing the last 'a' but the first one, making it sound like he said "Bob".

So when he comes up to the apartment door, I'd open and say "n'aber Bob" (what's up, Bob), to which he would reply "iyiyim, Joe" (I'm well, Joe). I think me asking might have sounded to him like a Turkish dub of a western or something, and it was a thing that was special to us two and I always looked forward to saying "n'aber Joe" every day...

god I miss my father.

LTK

Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #477 on: 04 Jun 2014, 14:12 »

Funny story: My earliest babysitters were a husband and wife whom I was supposed to call aunt Agnes and uncle uh.. I forgot. They would reprimand me if I called them by their first name only, but I only did that once when I was feeling trollish.

I like how we have a word for "needlessly rebellious, provoking attitude" now that perfectly describes how I was feeling like eighteen years ago.
Logged
Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

GarandMarine

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,308
  • Kawaii in the streets, Senpai in the sheets
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #478 on: 04 Jun 2014, 14:20 »

Baba is Russian for Grandma.
Logged
I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,979
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #479 on: 04 Jun 2014, 14:30 »

I find it weird to call non-relatives by relative-titles, but I know it's normal in some families so I guess it's just what you're used to. I have so many relatives that I really don't need to acquire extra honorary ones! Plus there are cultures (Akima, is this the case in China?) where using aunt or uncle is a sign of respect.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

dr. nervioso

  • Beyond Thunderdome
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 555
  • No more Mr. Nice Bitch
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #480 on: 04 Jun 2014, 14:42 »

When I lived in Miami,  all of the students would generally refer to the teacher as "miss" no surname, which I had always used

And another cultural difference I found  in the Midwest when  I made my glorious return was  the ubiquitous use of the phrase "You're fine" whenever domeine made a blunder of some sort. It really creeped me out at first.

Sent from my SM-T110 using Tapatalk

Logged
Quote
this forum is slowly decomposing into butts and kitties

Loki

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,532
  • The mischief that dwells within
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #481 on: 04 Jun 2014, 14:50 »

Plus there are cultures (Akima, is this the case in China?) where using aunt or uncle is a sign of respect.
In Russia, at least when I was young, (Aunt/Uncle + given name) was the polite (ie usual) way for children to address an older friend of the family (e.g. a friend of your mother or a neighbor who'd let you play on their lap).
Logged
The future is a weird place and you never know where it will take you.
the careful illusion of shit-togetherness

Masterpiece

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,364
  • No time for Claireification
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #482 on: 04 Jun 2014, 15:06 »

Baba is Russian for Grandma.
Baba is Turkish for father. Same as Papa in German.

Masterpiece

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,364
  • No time for Claireification
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #483 on: 04 Jun 2014, 15:14 »

My brain made a weird jump when I wrote that post - it's now stuck on "Musique Non Stop" by Kraftwerk, just because of the "Papaaaa papapaaa tick" in the intro:

Mlle Germain

  • Cthulhu f'tagn
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 516
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #484 on: 04 Jun 2014, 15:35 »

When I lived in Miami,  all of the students would generally refer to the teacher as "miss" no surname, which I had always used
Also if the teacher is a man?

I have never called anyone apart from my parents (Mama&Papa) and my grandparents (Oma&Opa, which are the German versions of Grandma/Grandpa) by their "family title" - I mean their relation to me. I call my aunts and uncles just by their first names. But my second cousins (not sure if that's the right word; I mean my cousin's children) call my mum and dad, i.e. their great-aunt and great-uncle "Aunt *MyMumsFirstName*" and "Uncle *MyDadsFirstName*" and name their other aunts and uncles and grandparents in a similar fashion. However, they do not call me "Cousin ..." but just my name. I think in Germany most children use Aunt and Uncle just for their actual relatives, if at all.
Logged

dr. nervioso

  • Beyond Thunderdome
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 555
  • No more Mr. Nice Bitch
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #485 on: 04 Jun 2014, 15:39 »

I believe the students used male teacher surnames more than they did for female teachers, but there were not many male teachers to begin with

Sent from my SM-T110 using Tapatalk

Logged
Quote
this forum is slowly decomposing into butts and kitties

GarandMarine

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,308
  • Kawaii in the streets, Senpai in the sheets
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #486 on: 04 Jun 2014, 18:20 »

Plus there are cultures (Akima, is this the case in China?) where using aunt or uncle is a sign of respect.
In Russia, at least when I was young, (Aunt/Uncle + given name) was the polite (ie usual) way for children to address an older friend of the family (e.g. a friend of your mother or a neighbor who'd let you play on their lap).

Common in parts of the U.S. too. My "Uncle" Tom and "Aunt" Jeanie for example.
Logged
I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,415
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #487 on: 04 Jun 2014, 19:45 »

(and he'd refer to me as Eric)
Wait, you're Eric, too? That means there are at least three of us.
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

bhtooefr

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,880
  • ⌘-⌥-⌃-N
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #488 on: 04 Jun 2014, 20:14 »

ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US.

And I neglected to mention that a significant portion of my friends call me "toof", even IRL. (One community I'm in (where normally nicknames are eschewed, and most people use real names even in IRC), there's another Eric that's been there much longer... except he uses his nickname too. There's an unspoken "nobody calls anyone Eric" rule in that channel.)
Logged

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,415
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #489 on: 04 Jun 2014, 20:31 »

Perfect! I should join! "Hi, I'm Eric, but you can call me Method."
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

GarandMarine

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,308
  • Kawaii in the streets, Senpai in the sheets
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #490 on: 04 Jun 2014, 20:35 »

The Eric hive mind grows ever larger
Logged
I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,415
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #491 on: 04 Jun 2014, 20:35 »

(Checks toof's profile to see if I'm still the oldest Eric) When's your bday, toof? We're both 26!
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

TRVA123

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,518
  • Just waiting to jump in with a peninsula joke.
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #492 on: 04 Jun 2014, 22:11 »

And another cultural difference I found  in the Midwest when  I made my glorious return was  the ubiquitous use of the phrase "You're fine" whenever domeine made a blunder of some sort. It really creeped me out at first.

wait, "you're fine" as a way of accepting an apology isn't standard practice elsewhere?

*midwesterner here* I probably say "you're fine" or "no worries" ten or more times a day at work.
Logged

Ben

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #493 on: 04 Jun 2014, 22:15 »

Calling older friends of the family "aunt" or "uncle" used to be common in the UK and you still hear it occasionally, although it's no longer usual and considers rather "old fashioned". Note that it would not be usual to refer to their children as "cousin" and it would be generally understood who was an actual relative, as opposed to a form of address.

I travel in Asian countries and it's common there for Westerners to be addressed as "Mr (given name)" rather than "Mr (surname)" which is basically an adaptation of a local form of address; it might also be used when referring to someone known to both speakers but not present.

I just shrug it off when people address my by my actual first name on brief acquaintance or as a firm of enforced familiarity (recruiting agent desk staff, for example). Since anyone who actually DOES know me would know that I am almost NEVER called that to my face by people who know not to, it just marks them out as people who have promoted themselves to a specific level of association.
Logged

bhtooefr

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,880
  • ⌘-⌥-⌃-N
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #494 on: 05 Jun 2014, 03:19 »

(Checks toof's profile to see if I'm still the oldest Eric) When's your bday, toof? We're both 26!
1988-04-08.

*midwesterner here* I probably say "you're fine" or "no worries" ten or more times a day at work.
This.
Logged

Skewbrow

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,864
  • damn it
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #495 on: 05 Jun 2014, 04:04 »

I said my personal name. That is, as opposed to my surname. What you would probably call your first name or Christian name. Yes, of course I have adopted the Western name order for public purposes, living in Australia, but it still feels wrong, and deep inside my "first name" is still my surname. Because, you know, the family is more important than the individual. ;)

This may be difficult for us "occidentals" to understand. I hope that your coworkers understand and respect your reasons.

But I wanted to ask you if this is related to what I observed/was told about while I lived in the US. What seemed to happen was that children born to Chinese parents in America were given a "local" name to be used as a first name the way it is locally used. The parents got to pick that name. But another first name (the personal name?) was picked by the extended family/elders/whatnot in China? Based on what you said it sounds like I never learned the true names of the kids born to fellow grad students from China? We called the kid Aaron, because the parents did so :-)

Another thing that puzzles me about this. Is this practice of not disclosing the first names still common in China? My wife has a penpal from Hong Kong. I may be wrong but I think that she is referring to her kids with their personal names in her letters. Would people from Hong Kong have developed different customs in this respect?
Logged
QC  - entertaining you with regular shots in the butt since 2003.

Sorflakne

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,652
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #496 on: 05 Jun 2014, 05:54 »

I thought it was rather odd that instructors at my current college (and even our department head) said it was cool if we referred to them by first name during class time.  The oddity of it passed after a few days though.
Logged
If you want to see what God and Satan look like, look in the mirror.

Method of Madness

  • His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
  • Globe Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,415
  • The Bootysattva
    • Me!
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #497 on: 05 Jun 2014, 06:05 »

TRVA -I use "no worries" all the time, but "you're fine" seems odd to me.

Toof- I'm 1987, so I "win" bwahahahahaha
Logged
They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Akima

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,283
  • ** 妇女能顶半边天 **
Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #498 on: 05 Jun 2014, 07:12 »

Also, I find it depressing when someone says that "x is not my friend" in a context where you don't have a reason to dislike x.
For me, friendship is an important relationship, and I like to think that I offer a bit more to my friends than not disliking them. There are many people in the world I don't dislike, and I'm perfectly prepared to be polite to them or smile at them, but they are not friends; they are clients, coworkers, acquaintances, my dentist, random people I meet on railway platforms and so on. Friends are people I care a lot about, and applying the word "friend" to anyone I don't dislike feels to me like devaluing friendship.

Quote
So Akima, do you expect people to call you just by your surname, or do you wish them to add "Ms." in front of it.
What I expect is that people will use my "first name", and I accept that as customary in Australia. I would prefer Ms. <surname> in the workplace, but that is a lost cause here. I don't have any problem with being addressed simply by my unadorned surname either, but that is not common in Australia, especially for women, at least in civilian life.

This may be difficult for us "occidentals" to understand. I hope that your coworkers understand and respect your reasons.
They don't have to. At work, and in the "outer world" generally, I go by my "Australian name" given in Western name-order (first name, surname), and co-workers address me by my "Australian" first name. I keep any discomfort to myself; it's part of fitting in my adopted country. As you have observed, it is very common for Chinese-descended people to use a Western first name if they live in Western countries. If they were born in a Western country, their family might well have given them a Western name at birth. Many will be Christian, and will probably have been baptised with a "Christian name". Hong Kong is sort of "between worlds", but there too, the influence of missionaries, British imperialism, and  Western influence generally, means that many people use a Western first name, at least to interact with Westerners. This is all much less so in "Mainland" China.

In China, your surname always comes first. Mao Zedong's surname was Mao; his personal name was Zedong. Chinese people do not "not disclose" their personal names, as you put it. The point is that using the personal name by itself is restricted to close friends. Anyone else would either use your full name (surname and personal name together), or your surname and title (with the title coming after the name remember) or possibly just your surname. What bothers me is when people I barely know from a crack in the pavement seem to arrogate to themselves the status of a friend. As I said above, it feels fake, intrusive and manipulative.

Being born in China, I was not given a Western name at birth. I was named in the traditional way, inheriting my family surname from my father, and having my personal name selected by my grandparents. When we moved to Australia, my family obviously had to adopt Western name order, romanized spelling for our names, and English-language "first names". In my case, the two syllables of my Chinese personal name each sound like a common English girl's name, so the school where I was first enrolled wrote them down separately as my first and middle names using English spelling, and that is how I got my Australian name. I'm OK with it, and I made it "official" when I became an Australian citizen.

Plus there are cultures (Akima, is this the case in China?) where using aunt or uncle is a sign of respect.
Yes this is true in China. You would not do it to your boss at work normally, but an older person (generally a generation older) you meet regularly on polite terms might be addressed in this manner once you knew them fairly well. Grandfather and Grandmother are both also terms of respect for addressing unrelated elderly people whose names you do not know.

"No worries!" is the usual form here, for accepting an apology or assuring someone that no apology is necessary.
Logged
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned." Richard Feynman

LTK

Re: What seemed weird when I visited your country
« Reply #499 on: 05 Jun 2014, 07:39 »

Toof- I'm 1987, so I "win" bwahahahahaha
Well, that just means you started earlier. We won't know who's the winner until one of you finishes the human race.

Also, I find it depressing when someone says that "x is not my friend" in a context where you don't have a reason to dislike x. Why isn't x your friend? Why can't they be your friend for a little while? Not having everyone be your friend to some degree by default sounds like an awful way to live.
What Akima says about this makes total sense but there's still a feeling of meanness to saying "x is not my friend", even if you are friendly towards that person. If someone said that about you, even though it'd be completely true, wouldn't it still just hurt a little bit? It's one of those truths that's better left unspoken.
« Last Edit: 05 Jun 2014, 07:47 by LTK »
Logged
Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12   Go Up