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Author Topic: WoWCrack  (Read 22681 times)

Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #100 on: 19 Aug 2016, 07:50 »

Not to come off as a dealer but,

Let's face it, if we're playing again, we do need to try and get more people playing! :evil:

But what Ali was saying is true. Blizzard are really trying make the various specs feel a lot more different than before. I have two warriors, Fury and Arms, and I can tell you this right now, the Arms feels very much like its the faster hitting character, focusing on dodging to serve as the off-tank. The Fury feels very much like the juggernaut, its going to take the hits and its going to be slower but when it does hit, its like a train-hitting.
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hedgie

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #101 on: 19 Aug 2016, 07:53 »

I quit in cata.  I guess the writing was on the wall then

Edit: the thing that bugged Me back then was when we started getting AOE heals. I really didn't wanna heal the idiots
« Last Edit: 19 Aug 2016, 08:02 by hedgie »
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"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #102 on: 20 Aug 2016, 21:05 »

when we started getting AOE heals. I really didn't wanna heal the idiots

I don't see them as idiots, but as ablative meatshields. You needed them to keep the bad guys from whaling on your squishy priest.
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hedgie

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #103 on: 20 Aug 2016, 21:29 »

Well, my main as an H Pally wasn't very squishy.  And if you've ever tried to take-out a disc priest in PvP, you know that they don't go down easy either  :-P 

But it does make sense that Blizz didn't want 2/5 of the heal specs at the time be be over-specialised to the point where they basically regarded DPS as being hidden under an SEP field.  Even in Cata, I did warn DPS that any heals they got from me were largesse.
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"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #104 on: 20 Aug 2016, 22:13 »

Well, you know, when you are sick of healing idiots, you are sick of WoW.

And I'm not saying that because WoW is full of idiots (though it might seem like it at times).

Basically, if you have a dungeon full of people who aren't obsessed with the game, who don't treat it like a part time job, then "idiocy" (aka mistakes) will happen with some frequency. That's not to mention the genuine idiots. The best healers, IMO, are the ones who put the success of the group/raid over petty dislike of individual players. As far as I'm concerned, "idiots" aren't the ones who are bad for the game. The ones who are bad for the game, the ones who really drive players away, are the abusive ones with no tolerance for anything less than close to perfect game play.

The good healers are the ones who relish a challenging dungeon where the players are not at their best. When facing a new boss, this is the default, and it is where the healers can shine. Face it, once the strategy has been mastered by the group, the healers can usually more or less sit back and relax (and poke fun at the mage who pulled aggro again with invis on cooldown and is now a smudge on the floor).

I became annoyed at the emphasis on AoE healing, but not for the same reasons as stated above. There was a time when raid healers had definite roles, and it was those roles that made life interesting. You had your efficient, single-target throughput healer, usually on a tank. You had your burst output healers, sometimes on a tank, sometimes on a specific role, sometimes on random targets. You had your aoe healers, you had your random raid healers. They were all needed, they all had their strengths, and they played to them. When everything clicked, healing was a joy. When people got obsessed with numbers on the hps chart, that caused problems, because some roles didn't necessarily have high numbers, even though they kept the people alive they were supposed to. So they would heal randomly in an effort to boost their numbers, and people died as a result. This, as a heal leader, was endlessly frustrating.

Now, possibly in an effort to attract the dps/hps junkies, they have homogenised the healing classes, made the damage much more raid-wide and less spikey, and changed the game such that there is a genuine need for simple aoe throughput placed on all healers. Maybe it made healing more interesting for people who watch the metres, but it made healing much less interesting for me.

I think part of the reason is that, while I like healers with different roles, I don't think that they really got it right in Wrath. The idea of holy priests being good in 5-man dungeons and holy paladins being good in raids didn't make sense. I was actually assigned to healing Valithria Dreamwalker in ICC, FSM knows why. The difference between my output and the holy paladin's was ridiculous. We killed the boss, so I didn't really care, but I think there's a balance to be struck there somewhere, and I wonder if it will ever be achieved.

As a side note, the tolerance levels for mistakes vary based on what class you're playing. I have made stupid mistakes as a healer and been told "nah, don't sweat it." I've made stupid mistakes as a tank and had mixed responses. And I've made stupid responses as a huntard, and had vitriol hurled at me that you would barely believe (if you weren't a veteran WoW player).
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hedgie

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #105 on: 20 Aug 2016, 22:53 »

Well, you know, when you are sick of healing idiots, you are sick of WoW.
Quite true, and you raise some excellent points which I'll attempt to address without being so flippant (and not on a phone).  But in the 4 years I played on Blizz servers, and three I did on private servers, I noticed that arrogance similar to mine although common to healers in general was exaggerated almost to the point of parody by H Pallies and Disc Priests.  I knew several who refused to even go on anything less than a full-guild run of anything, and reached that point, myself, on several occasions out of frustration on anything but a milk run.

I'm rather amused that with progression raiding, where anyone who hadn't been doing it on the PTR was learning, raids lasted not much more than three hours because at least half of the healers and usually one of the tanks were intoxicated to the point of being useless.[1]

Quote
The good healers are the ones who relish a challenging dungeon where the players are not at their best. When facing a new boss, this is the default, and it is where the healers can shine. Face it, once the strategy has been mastered by the group, the healers can usually more or less sit back and relax (and poke fun at the mage who pulled aggro again with invis on cooldown and is now a smudge on the floor).
 

Oh, yeah.  New bosses were far more interesting.  Towards the end of an expansion, gear inflation for progression raiders got to the point where I'd tell a similarly geared pug tank to "just pull the fucking room already, I'm *bored*".  End-game LK was the worst for this, IME.

Quote
<snip=agreed> When people got obsessed with numbers on the hps chart, that caused problems, because some roles didn't necessarily have high numbers, even though they kept the people alive they were supposed to.

Yeah.  I *did* look at the charts after a wipe just to see if someone for their class/spec/role wasn't pulling their weight.  It was frustrating, though, to be booted from a pug on a disc priest for having "low hps".

<snip=agreed>
Quote
As a side note, the tolerance levels for mistakes vary based on what class you're playing. I have made stupid mistakes as a healer and been told "nah, don't sweat it." I've made stupid mistakes as a tank and had mixed responses. And I've made stupid responses as a huntard, and had vitriol hurled at me that you would barely believe (if you weren't a veteran WoW player).

Oh, I know.  Before my pally took over as my main, I temporarily ran my DK as one.  If anyone started joking about "deathnoobs", I'd do things like pet-pull or leave exploding bunnies around for pats in order to troll people.

Edit:  I also, tended to test other tolerance levels less for making mistakes (I tried my best not to make them and maintain a proper Ballmer Peak throughout) was to see what other sorts of things that I could get away with.  Like demanding that after a boss kill, I got to go outside and smoke a cigarette whilst everyone else dealt with trash, or well, seeing how drunk I could get before anyone noticed.  It's pretty crazy what one can get away with.

[1] I will never confirm nor deny causing a wipe due to being drunk to the point of falling out of a chair during a critical moment.
« Last Edit: 20 Aug 2016, 23:02 by hedgie »
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"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #106 on: 21 Aug 2016, 20:09 »

I've never actually played WoW while drunk, but I have healed a tank who was pretty drunk on a couple of occasions. Luckily for us, he'd run the place so many times, most pulls went off without a hitch. But when something unexpected happened... let's just say that there were some comical wipes. Fun times.
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"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." - Sir Joshua Reynolds (paraphrased)

Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #107 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:35 »

Turns out the invasions pre-event is a fantastic way of levelling up characters and make quite a lot of gold. Three invasions and I've taken a Shaman from level 22 to 39.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #108 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:50 »

I had an issue at first where I wasn't gaining the proper amount of experience for some reason. I would do several invasions and my EXP bar would barely move. At level 93, I was getting 80-2000 xp per kill, with full rest.  Since then though it's been taken care of. I got my belf paladin almost to 99, and my human mage is almost at 98 right now. Once they are Legion-ready I'll probably hit up one of my low characters and see how far I can get them in a week.
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #109 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:59 »

Yeah, I've always considered making a Priest or a Mage, but I've never really like the idea of actually levelling up a cloth class through the expansions. But the invasions should be quite useful. But you might want to consider making some more use of the invasions, while Blizzard haven't said anything, I imagine the event should end a little bit after the launch.
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

LeeC

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #110 on: 26 Aug 2016, 11:11 »

I was able to get my orc warrior from lvl 20 to 54, my blood elf hunter from 73 to 100 and gear my 5 other 100s with lvl 700 gear.  This weekend I am going to try and get my warrior to 60 and start a draenei priest and get her to 60 too.  Especially after seeing this video.

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Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #111 on: 26 Aug 2016, 12:36 »

Carbot really captures the image of the male Draenei well. I could hardly tell the difference between his drawing and a screenshot.
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #112 on: 29 Aug 2016, 20:06 »

Legion launch has been a lot of fun, no disconnects or queues, but then again I'm on a fairly low population server so it doesn't really matter to me.

Legion spoilers
(click to show/hide)

A word of warning, the Legion Invasion events were really useful for a couple of reasons. Unless you can heal yourself quickly or do a massive amount of damage, you're going to struggle...As did my Death Knight and he had an average of 673 gear.
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LeeC

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #113 on: 06 Sep 2016, 06:03 »

I completely forgot that for Illidan its been a time warp for him. The world is really different since BC.

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You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #114 on: 06 Sep 2016, 07:29 »

That global range on The Hunt is so OP....
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Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #115 on: 06 Sep 2016, 17:51 »

So, forgive me for my ignorance, I haven't been following this stuff.

How is this expansion different from Burning Legion?

Blizzard seem to have been trading heavily on nostalgia in the past couple of expansions. Maybe they got a bit burned by MoP and decided that the best way to bring players back is to rehash, rehash, rehash.
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"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." - Sir Joshua Reynolds (paraphrased)

Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #116 on: 06 Sep 2016, 18:09 »

Yes, there is a lot of play on Nostalgia that has gone into this and the last expansion. It's not really a bad thing though. WoW lore is quite expansive and it would be a waste to throw it all away every expansion to come up with new things. Especially when the old things are still around and there are more stories to be told about them.  A fair bit is borrowed from Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King. The return of the Legion, of Illidan and Kharazhan from Burning Crusade hits on a lot of the big things that were popular in that expansion. Some of the feel of the zones, Dalaran, the Vrykul and a new hero class call back to Wrath. Familiar places and people and new stories to be told. Technically, continuation of stories that have been told since the start of the franchise. Many of the enemies have been stopped, or beaten back... but never truly destroyed and their threat was not ended, merely postponed.  The Legion by definition cannot be destroyed. At best you can destroy the physical bodies of the demons and send them to the nether for a time. But they will always return. They and the Old Gods will always remain a threat to Azeroth, no matter how many times they are 'killed'.

So in short.. I don't mind at all that we are going back to old places. I liked visiting old Draenor last expansion. I love running around Dalaran again this expansion. I'm so looking forward to the new Kharazan dungeon, which still remains one of my favorite raids ever. I want to see where these characters, some of which I've known longer than real life friends at this point, go in their story.
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #117 on: 06 Sep 2016, 18:23 »

So, forgive me for my ignorance, I haven't been following this stuff.

How is this expansion different from Burning Crusade?

Blizzard seem to have been trading heavily on nostalgia in the past couple of expansions. Maybe they got a bit burned by MoP and decided that the best way to bring players back is to rehash, rehash, rehash.

Fixed that bit for you.

Basically the Burning Legion have actually invaded, rather than just being the hidden boogeymen and puppet masters that they have been for all the expansions. On top of that major
(click to show/hide)

The whole point of Legion is now that the players characters have been recognised as the main heroes of Azeroth and therefore become the leader of their class and act as the spearpoint against the Legion. Warriors become champions of what is essentially Valhalla, having been recognised as the true champions of Azeroth. Death Knight players can reforge Frostmourne into a pair of blades (Frost spec only), but also recreate the Four Horsemen. Paladins rebuild the Order of the Silver Hand and are based from the basement of Light's Hope Chapel. And it goes on like that for the classes.

It seems like Blizzard are clearing out characters and setting up the players to take over from them. Which kind of makes me wonder if the expansion will be some sort of Kingmaker scenario and players become rulers of their respective faction.

Edit: Also, what Neko_Ali said.
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #118 on: 06 Sep 2016, 19:25 »

Ha, yes, sorry for the brain fart there with the misnaming of BC.

Obviously, a lot of people don't mind revisiting to old places. It's proven to be a very popular strategy. And I have no doubt that you can justify the position that this expansion advances a story. I'd probably feel happier about another Legion expansion if not for the tired Back from the Dead trope.

Eh. Given that I am trying to resist any temptation to return to the game, I should be happy that they are doing this. Because it makes resisting the temptation easier.

Obviously I am not heavily into the lore and am not their target audience.
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"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." - Sir Joshua Reynolds (paraphrased)

Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #119 on: 06 Sep 2016, 19:38 »

To be fair, the characters who have died aren't coming back and in all fairness Blizzard isn't really the kind of developer that uses that trope. In fact, they're more likely to use http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CameBackWrong trope. And bear in mind that the characters they have killed off were or are quite popular.
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #120 on: 06 Sep 2016, 20:16 »

Sure, back from the dead, came back wrong. Pick your favourite resurrection trope. No real difference for the purpose of this discussion.

And of course they only bring back popular characters. Say what you like about Blizz, they aren't idiots. That rather does, however, support the notion that they are primarily driven, not by narrative, but by marketing imperative.
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #121 on: 06 Sep 2016, 20:32 »

Sure, back from the dead, came back wrong. Pick your favourite resurrection trope. No real difference for the purpose of this discussion.

And of course they only bring back popular characters. Say what you like about Blizz, they aren't idiots. That rather does, however, support the notion that they are primarily driven, not by narrative, but by marketing imperative.

The thing is that Varian is literally dust on the wind, Vol'jin got burned on a pyre. You have two of the most popular characters in the franchise and they have been completely removed and killed off. Varian's chin too.

But the general feel of this expansion is that maybe Blizzard are clearing the board, that the world isn't going to be the same again and we aren't going back to the status quo simply because it does not exist anymore. Now, there have always been dark spots early to mid expansion, where the players are on the ropes, but then haha, we get the lucky break to turn things in our favour. But its not happening in Legion, at least not yet. The old heroes are dying and being cleared out and for once everything rests on the player's shoulders, because now they have to make the choices (or at least being directed by their second in commands or bosses...). I don't think Legion will be the last expansion, mainly because WoW is 12 years old this year and is one of the few subscription based MMOs still around, Blizzard are making too much money from this. But I also know that Blizzard aren't afraid of killing off fan favourites for the purpose of developing the story.
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #122 on: 06 Sep 2016, 20:37 »

There is no need to be afraid of killing them off when you can either resurrect them or time travel to reuse them at any time you choose, is there?
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #123 on: 06 Sep 2016, 20:53 »

There is no need to be afraid of killing them off when you can either resurrect them or time travel to reuse them at any time you choose, is there?

You seem to be obsessed with the idea of Blizzard bringing back characters from the dead. Like there's a conveyor belt where they kill a character at one station and resurrect them at the next station, before killing them at the next station and repeating the process ad nauseum.

Granted, the time travel plot of Warlords was something of an asspull, but its not necessarily an overwriting one. Its more like the current Star Trek. Yeah, there's an alternate timeline, but in the same way that the Kelvin timeline for Star Trek doesn't necessarily mean that The Original Series, the Next Generation and so on have been rendered obsolete, rather its just a fork in the story. Same thing with Warlords, the story hasn't been overwritten, but there is a fork in the timeline, the Warlords timeline and the Main timeline. That Gul'dan from Warlords is now in the Main timeline doesn't even matter any more than the players crossing universes and time to smack a petulant teenager upside the head.
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #124 on: 06 Sep 2016, 21:54 »

Hey, I'm not obsessed with anything WoW, I thought I made that clear. I'm just having a conversation with you, and responding to the points you're making. I'm happy to keep discussing the resurrection trope for as long as you are.

Like there's a conveyor belt where they kill a character at one station and resurrect them at the next station, before killing them at the next station and repeating the process ad nauseum.

Not quite that bad, no. I think you're somewhat unfairly mischaracterising what I'm saying.

The impression I get is that you don't entirely disagree with what I'm saying, just that you don't think that any of it is a deal breaker. If so, then I actually agree with you on that. None of this is the reason I've stopped playing, actually. But that's another story.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #125 on: 07 Sep 2016, 08:27 »

Actually, fairly few lore characters have had resurrection happen to them. In fact, it's something that's often joked about in the difference between mechanics and lore. Players and mobs and bosses can endlessly respawn because otherwise the game would be boring or drastically different in a game sense. But if someone is killed outside of gaming reasons, they tend to stay dead without very good reason and often extreme cases.  Of course, given the fact that ghosts are a regular thing, just being dead doesn't mean a character can't have part in the story. I just had another nice talk with Uther on my paladin the other night, and he's been dead for many years. The only real people I've known to come back from the dead in lore was Kael'thas. And his resurrection was not... pleasant. He came back as a twisted fel puppet with crystals embedded in his chest. Sylvanas of course has had a few lives through the years. First as Ranger General, then brought back as a banshee by Arthas. Then possessing a couple of different bodies. Finally she nearly died in the new Forsaken questline after Cataclysm but was restored to undeath by one of her Valkyr sacrificing her life to save Sylvanas.

The various member of the Burning Legion can't be killed on this world, or on Draenor/Outland.  It was long established that when you destroy a demon you are just destroying it's body. It's spirit goes back to the Nether to reform. to actually kill a demon, you have to kill it in the Nether. You can also consume it's essence and trap it within your body the way the Illidari or Meryl Felstorm did. But that doesn't kill them, and eventually they can potentially get free. As far as returning bad guys in this expansion go... Illidan was never killed. When the players beat him at Black Temple, Maiev stopped anyone from killing him to return him to his eternal prison. So no resurrection there. Gul'dan of our world remains dead. The Gul'dan leading the invasion force in Legion is the alternate universe one opened up in Warlords of Draenor, come back to the prime universe. All thanks to meddling in the time stream by bronze dragons.

So ultimately, there have been very, very few people return from the dead, outside of the Undead and demons in game. Far less you would think in a game that includes resurrection spells and mechanics that mean players never die for long, and you can re-run content many times. But that's pretty much just set aside as a game concept that doesn't really happen in lore.
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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #126 on: 07 Sep 2016, 09:02 »

I am still confused (lore wise) on how Medivh is dead but shows up in WC3 alive only to be left as a ghost/image in Karazhan (ignoring the fake out ghost in the recent khadgar video). I havn't made it very far in Legion due to meat space so no spoilers, but is it addressed in legion?  If its been addressed elsewhere please let me know.

Also are the comics canon considering the new guardian in the comics is completely left out of the game?
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Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #127 on: 07 Sep 2016, 11:05 »

Here is Medivh's lore page: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Medivh

The short answer is, after he was killed, he got a resurrection, his mother used the last of her power to restore his life. Mabye? Some of the later appearances of him as 'The Prophet' suggest he might not be human, but some kind of spirit made solid for a while. After the defeat of Archimonde at Mount Hyjal he disappeared to 'rejoin legends'. His role has pretty much been taken over by Khadgar now. Though Khadgar still refuses to accept the title of Guardian, thinking he would wind up going down the same path to evil as Medivh.

I'm really not sure how lore-valid the various books and comic are supposed to be. But I'm pretty sure Med'an is not official. Certain his story as Guardian and all that he did in the comics is directly contradicted by the story of Legion, and no mention of him is ever made anywhere but the comics, I think. So I'm pretty sure that is all non canon.

Some things though are canon, such as the events of the Sunwell Trilogy manga, which introduced the blue dragon Kalecgos, among others. Who has gone on to become a regular occurrence in the World of Warcraft. My thought is that it's like the Star Wars comics and books. Until something appears in offical Blizzard media, such as the game, consider it to be alternate universe possibilities. Not real until it officially shows up.
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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #128 on: 12 Sep 2016, 11:54 »

Not really tying this into the current discussion because phone typing/swiping sucks, but I'm having fun with this expansion. I don't feel completely hopeless soloing, but it's not a cakewalk. Questing is pleasantly streamlined and i like how the zones scale based on level. Also my favorite raid is making a comeback!

Who knows how long it'll keep my attention, but so far I quite like it.
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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #129 on: 12 Sep 2016, 12:27 »

So if I eventually want to play...do I have to buy the game and ALL the expansions?
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Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #130 on: 12 Sep 2016, 12:44 »

Yes, but not separately. Buying the base game now includes all of the expansions up through Warlords of Draenor for USD $20. So all of the content up to level 100. If you want to go past that, then you have to purchase Legion separately.  That is the way expansions have been handled for a while now. When a new expansion comes out, the previous one gets folded into the content of the main game as far as price goes. So cheaper really than if you had been playing all along and bought each expansion as it came out.
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Method of Madness

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #131 on: 12 Sep 2016, 12:55 »

Oh! Cool! Ok, when I build a computer that can run WoW I'll do that, then.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #132 on: 12 Sep 2016, 15:02 »

Taking a break from the Broken Isles to solo some of the heroic dungeons from Warlords.

I think I can sum up the outcome as the following:


Which is really easing the mammoth cost of that...well, Mammoth from last week...
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #133 on: 12 Sep 2016, 15:28 »

Oh! Cool! Ok, when I build a computer that can run WoW I'll do that, then.

I'd recommend just getting the base game at start. You will have all the class changes, quality of life stuff and all that that people playing Legion have. You don't need the expansion for basic mechanics of the game. You don't need to buy the expansion until you reach level 100 and are ready to move on. Or unless you really want to play a Demon Hunter. They are a ton of fun, I'll give you that. So there is a lot of content to do before you reach that point. And the price may have dropped for Legion by then, or you might be able to pick it up on a sale somewhere. Getting the expansion does give you a free level 100 boost, allowing you to get a character immediately ready to head to the Broken Isles.

But I recommend playing through and getting someone to level 100 first before doing that though, and trying out several classes to see which ones you like. This will let you get a feel for the game and mechanics of it all, so you don't feel overwhelmed right at the start. And since the level 100 boost is something you can only do once and you can't change class afterwards,  you probably don't want to waste it.
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #134 on: 12 Sep 2016, 16:25 »

Yeah, try out several classes before making one your main.

I remember years ago when Wrath had been announced, I wanted so much to play a warrior and I really disliked the idea of Paladins (though this was going back to other games). I got to about level 40 when I realised that I really didn't understand the mechanics of a Warrior, I was so focused on getting my combat talents that I had no real idea of maintaining aggro for tanking (thank god we don't have to buy talents anymore), which really didn't help at a time when Warriors were pretty much the main tanks in the game. And that left a rather bitter taste in my mouth for Wrath and Cataclysm because if you joined a group, everyone wanted you to be the tank.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love playing a warrior these days, but I have a Paladin for my main, who goes through the content first and looking at a Priest for soloing older content.

That said, the mechanics have simplified so much since 2008. Each class and each specialisation has been further defined in what their roles are and how they can be used. Warriors used to be something of a joke in terms of dealing damage, but nowadays, warriors are terrifying.

I'm sure you can still get trial versions of Warcraft from certain retailers, or even the Starter Edition from Blizzard.net itself. You can level up to 20, earn up to 10 gold and try out the basic stuff, though expansion content will be denied to you (which is alright because the expansions really start at level 60)
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Method of Madness

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #135 on: 12 Sep 2016, 17:40 »

I briefly played when Burning Crusade came out, but I never got past level 20 or so. So yeah, the base game (which means all the expansions except Legion, right?) will be more than enough.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #136 on: 12 Sep 2016, 17:52 »

I'm glad to hear they've done a good job with questing in Legion. Questing in WoD was a lot of fun.
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"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." - Sir Joshua Reynolds (paraphrased)

Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #137 on: 12 Sep 2016, 18:16 »

I briefly played when Burning Crusade came out, but I never got past level 20 or so. So yeah, the base game (which means all the expansions except Legion, right?) will be more than enough.

Like its been said, if you feel like you want to, you can upgrade to Legion if and when you feel like it.

I'm glad to hear they've done a good job with questing in Legion. Questing in WoD was a lot of fun.

Yeah, because the regions scale up with the player and because each player can do the main zones in the order they want, Blizzard has done away with the ridiculous requirement to level up from previous expansions to more reasonable amounts, like for all ten levels in Legion, its like 600,000 up to 750,000 (in Cataclysm, it was something like 9 million xp for level 85). It wasn't a grind per se, but it did take a while.

Levelling and questing in Legion means you aren't looking for something to fill in the gaps between searching for the next quest. There are still certain areas where you can fill up a meter to get a huge boost to xp and a fair bit of gold, much like there were in Warlords. They're handy, but at the same time the fact that there are several in every zone and it kind of feels like its being foisted on you as you come across them and I'm kind of "meh" about them.

There are also World Quests for end-game now. Basically they're like the old daily quests, but you get quests for each zone; some might be related your class, others can be boosts to your reputation with each zone faction, with there are some that are related to your professions. They haven't been implement yet, presumably to let players get to max level first, but there are going to be World Raid Bosses.
« Last Edit: 13 Sep 2016, 02:50 by TheEvilDog »
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Lines

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #138 on: 12 Sep 2016, 19:33 »

Echoing testing out classes. My druid has definitely been my only constant character since vanilla. Never really got into my pally or any fighting melee character really (other than cat druid), so pallys, warriors, rogues, and death knights are not really my jam. I much prefer casting and/or healing. Right now my three main characters are a druid, shaman, and mage. I need to test out healing on my druid, as I haven't healed on it since BC? I prefer casting and being a kitty. I love healing on my shaman and so far casting has also been good, although I'm used to being a melee DPS on it. Mage is mage, pew pew. Demon hunters are a lot of fun and I think are a good balance between warlocks and death knights, also they look cool.

So yeah. Play with lots of classes, see what you like, and go from there.
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Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #139 on: 12 Sep 2016, 21:37 »

More for my own amusement than for anyone else's, a (vaguely remembered) history of classes I've tried.

Druid (lured by the promise of being able to do everything)
Mage (first character I ever raided with)
Priest (decided I liked healing more than pew pew)
Hunter (my only character with a pvp focus, on a pvp server)
Shaman (only time I've really enjoyed playing dps)
Paladin (my tanking phase, only ever pugged though)
Monk (healing, dabbled in tanking)

Classes I tried but never really got into: rogue (20 levels or so), warrior (similar), DK (starting zone only), warlock (got to about 60 before I gave up)

The character among all those that I have called my main since creation was the holy priest, with the mage coming second in the early days, to be overtaken later by the shaman.

Healing was more of a numbers game in WoD. To attract more players, I suppose. Not really to my liking. Sure, you can't ignore the numbers, but if I were obsessed with numbers I'd play dps.  :roll:
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"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." - Sir Joshua Reynolds (paraphrased)

Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #140 on: 13 Sep 2016, 06:41 »

Some interesting things in Legion, especially in regards to classes is that they are lifting a lot of abilities from Heroes of the Storm as class abilities. Not to mention straight up featuring characters from both games, putting them in prominent positions. For example, for the Shaman elemental spec artifact weapon I had to engage in a mini tournament in Pandaria. One of my fights was a team match. Rehgar and myself vs Chen and Lil Li. Chen even kept using his barrel roll ability constantly. And Reghar hangs out in the shaman class hall now, bearing the title "Hero of the Storm'. In case the point wasn't driven home enough...

As far as abilities go, a lot, if not all classes have picked up abilities that straight up pull from HotS. My shaman has Sundering. Which is... a lot less impressive than Thall's version. Only hitting a small area in front of me, instead of a long line. Death Knights get to summon Sindragosa like Arthas, and use Leoric's wraith walk ability. Warriors  have a Heroic Leap much like Sonya's ultimate. The fire mage's artifact allows you to summon pheonixes like Kael'thas... The list goes on and I'm sure I haven't seen them all yet. There is even a quest where you play as Murky for a while, using his abilities straight out of HotS. I wouldn't call it heavy cross promotion, it feels more like easter eggs for people who play both games. Albeit really obvious easter eggs.

The new Demon Hunter class is a lot of fun. They feel a lot more action oriented. With Fel Dash on charges and a rapid cool down, plus defensive mechanics largely based on dodges and more area affects.. It feels like WoW is becoming more of an action MMO. It is still tab target and throw abilities for the vast majority. But with the more melee classes like Demon Hunter and Monk postilion feels more important. The Demon Hunter is a lot of fun... It's seriously challenging Shaman as my top spot.. Who are only holding on because they can heal, while Demon Hunters can't.
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #141 on: 13 Sep 2016, 10:22 »

Yeah, Havoc spec Demon Hunters gain access to a talent called Demonic Appetite, which lets them create soul fragments with one of their attacks, they can run into these fragments which add Fury and restore some health.
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Tova

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #142 on: 16 Sep 2016, 03:27 »

So, sorry for the continued dumb questions, but what are professions like in legion?
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LeeC

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #143 on: 16 Sep 2016, 04:28 »

So, sorry for the continued dumb questions, but what are professions like in legion?
So far in my experience:
Professions get their own quest lines/chains as well that help you learn new recipes and improved versions of those recipes (protip for smiths, don't buy the level 2 leysteel armor recipes, just follow the quest lines!).  Each recipe has 3 levels with each level of that item being better than the last (leysteel bracers lvl 1 is weaker than layseteel bracers lvl 2).  For mining I had to just mine anything I found and it started a quest for that specific type of mining I was doing (1 for mining a node, 1 for mining a dead elemental body, 1 for mining a wall vein, etc) and for each type of new mineral.  You can still mine without doing the quests but doing the quests gives higher yields of minerals when you mine that object.  It seems way more involved than in previous games where you just learn a recipe and start mass producing it until you get no increased in profession level.
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You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #144 on: 16 Sep 2016, 06:44 »

It is also slightly more difficult and annoying to get new recipes. You go out and do quests to lean to make new things. Then  you can buy the plans to improve what you can build. But you can't just go to a trainer and buy a brand new recipe like you could before. So far I'm finding it more annoying than anything else.
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Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #145 on: 16 Sep 2016, 07:15 »

Yeah, if you have a crafting profession like tailoring or blacksmith, you gain a quest to collect X amount of material (to be fair they aren't that difficult to get) and bring it back to the questgiver. Who tries to make something and that fails spectacularly (though the Blacksmithing one is the funniest), and you can make bracers and shoulderpads. You're then sent out to talk to an expert on the materials and through a series of quests, you learn more and more recipes.
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hedgie

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #146 on: 16 Sep 2016, 09:15 »

Ugh.  Questing.  The bane of my life.  I hope they got rid of the "collect 20 monkey anuses and most monkeys don't have them" type.
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LeeC

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Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #147 on: 16 Sep 2016, 09:39 »

They kind of do.  There are still missions where they want you to kill x pumas or kill a bunch of soldiers until you find all the diary pages.  The difference being its relevant to the quest chain/story.  Killing pumas to help your gnome friend learn to hunt and they have a mini-xp bar, each of those pages are voice acted and tell you where to find your missing troops which is the next stage of the story.  They do have bonus areas inside the areas where you are already questing.  They help you level up faster and add to the immersion. 

For example I have a quest to destroy the bolt throwers on the towers and kill the head honcho, but the area also has a bonus meter that I can fill up by killing henchmen, freeing dragons, and burning huts.  Once the meter is full I get a ton more XP and also money or class hall currency.  A lot of times I am just doing the quests but the bonus meter is already at 75% so I just stick around and kill a few more mobs or burn another building. Which makes sense seeing as we're trying to destroy this viking base anyway.

This is different from the old grind because I dont have to collect 10 bear asses but the bear ass drop rate is so low I have to kill 50 bears to get 1 bear ass.
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You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it. - M. Gustave

Castlerook

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #148 on: 16 Sep 2016, 09:58 »

To be fair, they really did change up the questing approach since Cataclysm. The emphasis is now on the story for each region and like LeeC said, those quests are tied into the story. For example, if you go to Westfall, you are pretty much thrown into a murder investigation; which has you talking to witnesses then searching for clues and generally investigation, which leads up to the return of the Defias Brotherhood and the partial destruction of Westfall.

There are still quests where its like "Bring Me 30 Turkey Giblets" and you end up killing something like 100 turkeys, but thankfully that kind of quest has been severely reduced and they are phasing them out. The overall approach from Blizzard from the past few expansions has been to make the game a bigger draw to a fanbase that has become used to free-to-play games. That means more streamlined quests, less creature killing for quest items and mixing up some fun like mounting in a turret, which is always fun.
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Neko_Ali

Re: WoWCrack
« Reply #149 on: 16 Sep 2016, 10:20 »

Some nice additions are the fact that the zones are mostly not level-dependant. There are four main leveling zones for Legion. But you can do them in any order. Each has the usual main story quest thread and a bunch of side missions you can do. But the level of the mob adjusts to your level. In the same way that the pre-Legion events were scaled so that level 10 and level 100 players could be doing the same event, and the level 10 wasn't destroyed by a stray demon fart. Also they include multi-tapping mobs again. If you see someone fighting a mob in your area and you aren't grouped, you can still jump in and fight them. You will get credit for the kill for any quests and experience, and your own treasure. Possibly the greatest thing is that resource nodes are per player. Which means if I'm fighting a mob on top of an ore node, and some jackhole runs up and mines it out from literally under my feet... it doesn't matter. I still get to mine that node. It doesn't disappear when the other person mines it. Only when I mine it does it disappear to me.
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