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Author Topic: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before  (Read 28063 times)

jwhouk

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To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« on: 09 Jun 2014, 19:37 »

As requested: A Trek Thread. Only one request: NO LENS FLARE.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #1 on: 09 Jun 2014, 20:33 »

Heard Worf is getting his own ship/show
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #2 on: 09 Jun 2014, 21:04 »

That would be epic!
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #3 on: 09 Jun 2014, 21:41 »

That rumor's been bouncing around for a while and it was only based on Michael Dorn saying he wanted to play Worf again. Even if it were to happen my fear is that it would be set in the Abrams-verse or, worse, in the Online-verse. If they were to actually set it in the prime timeline I'd be ecstatic but then they'd have to reset the books which would be a shame because some really good books have taken place post-Nemesis.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #4 on: 10 Jun 2014, 16:38 »

I think that Dorn has quashed that rumor himself recently.  Something along the lines of him saying he wouldn't mind playing Worf again, but not in his own series.

Meanwhile



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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #5 on: 11 Jun 2014, 02:43 »

I haven't seen much Trek, but I like a lot of what I have seen.

And fuck it, I loved the reboot, although I've yet to watch Into Darkness.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #6 on: 11 Jun 2014, 03:52 »

I think Into Darkness is great. It gets a lot of flack for certain directional choices, but it's a fine Star Trek movie. My main gripe, the more I watch it, is that Simon Pegg is a bit over-used, and other characters I'd like to see more of (Sulu, for instance) are put on the back burner.

Also, I love Karl Urban as Bones but every line of dialogue in Darkness starts with "Dammit man!". It's like he's trying to go full Bones. You never go full Bones.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #7 on: 11 Jun 2014, 04:01 »

I was born the night that TOS episode, "Mirror, Mirror" debuted on TV.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #8 on: 11 Jun 2014, 10:22 »

When I was born - or more accurately about 12 hours before I was born, and my mother had already been in labour for some time - my father sat by the hospital bed and said "Do you realise we're missing Star Trek?"
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #9 on: 11 Jun 2014, 16:00 »

When I was born - or more accurately about 12 hours before I was born, and my mother had already been in labour for some time - my father sat by the hospital bed and said "Do you realise we're missing Star Trek?"

To which the doctor presumably said 'I didn't think Trekkies got laid' and everyone rolled their eyes at a joke that was dated even in the 80s.
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jwhouk

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #10 on: 11 Jun 2014, 16:35 »

Dude. I said ORIGINAL SERIES.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #11 on: 11 Jun 2014, 16:44 »

...I replied to Pilchard because I thought Pilchard was a similar age to me and no age is listed on the profile...
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #12 on: 12 Jun 2014, 05:11 »

My main gripe, the more I watch it, is that Simon Pegg is a bit over-used, and other characters I'd like to see more of (Sulu, for instance) are put on the back burner.

I agree that the movie is a little Pegg-heavy, but I thought Sulu had his moments on the chair that were pretty awesome.

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #13 on: 12 Jun 2014, 10:41 »

...I replied to Pilchard because I thought Pilchard was a similar age to me and no age is listed on the profile...

Close-ish. I was born in 1993.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #14 on: 12 Jun 2014, 19:14 »

Before anything here gets out of hand, I'd like to ask we not start some silly Kirk vs. Picard debate.  It's asinine, and we already know the correct answer is Sisko anyway.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #15 on: 12 Jun 2014, 20:57 »

TEAM ARCHER!
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #16 on: 13 Jun 2014, 03:06 »

Heresy!
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #17 on: 13 Jun 2014, 03:08 »

Before anything here gets out of hand, I'd like to ask we not start some silly Kirk vs. Picard debate.  It's asinine, and we already know the correct answer is Sisko anyway.

Sisko is awesome.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #18 on: 13 Jun 2014, 04:30 »

TEAM ARCHER!

Archer's Avengers!

Top Captain for me is a tie between Janeway and Sisko with Picard in close second.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #19 on: 13 Jun 2014, 04:37 »

SISKO > ALL! HAIL SISKO!
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jwhouk

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #20 on: 13 Jun 2014, 05:23 »

The only good thing about Sisko was that he played baseball.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #21 on: 13 Jun 2014, 15:26 »

The Sisko is of Baseball (and Bajor)

And it took Sisko to do this.


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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #22 on: 15 Jun 2014, 06:20 »

and then Q never bothered The Sisko or his station ever again.
« Last Edit: 15 Jun 2014, 06:35 by J »
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #23 on: 15 Jun 2014, 13:45 »

Yup

Oh, and Axanar's released their first official trailer.


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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #24 on: 15 Jun 2014, 17:06 »

In the Mirror Universe, Spock makes the choice our Kirk gave him.  The 'Star Trek Continues' followup to the classic Episode, 'Mirror Mirror'
 
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #25 on: 16 Jun 2014, 17:38 »

TEAM ARCHER!

I have to admit that I can't hate Archer or Enterprise because I love Ouantum Leap (and Porthos!  Oh, Porthos!).  But that opening theme song, oh god it's horrible.  I can easily hate that.

But then, I'll usually take bad Star Trek over no Star Trek.  I can find things to like about all the captains, but Picard will always have my loyalty.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #26 on: 16 Jun 2014, 18:29 »

See, Rod Stewart's theme song was the least objectionable thing about that series. The whole thing with the "Temporal Cold War" and the Xindi was laughable, and the whole "blow up the East Coast of the US" thing just sucked.

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #27 on: 16 Jun 2014, 18:33 »

The obvious 9/11 parallels were indeed obvious.

Enterprise had some good moments in the fourth season, but it was too little too late.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #28 on: 16 Jun 2014, 18:35 »

It's been awhile since I watched it (and even then, I skipped a bit, and don't think I ever got to the end).  I did enjoy several episodes, but I probably couldn't tell you which ones they were now.  But *least* objectionable, really?  It has to at least be in the top 10.  (Though it's possible my hatred of it borders on irrational.  It's just not Star Trek!)
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #29 on: 17 Jun 2014, 05:54 »

I am of the opinion that J.J. Abrams should GDIAF after what he did to Star Trek. Thus the reason for the "no lens flare" comment.

The worst episode of Enterprise is better than either ST reboot movie.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #30 on: 17 Jun 2014, 05:57 »

I liked "Faith of the Heart" and didn't mind the different tone it set for Enterprise.

Abrams... just no. He and his lens flares can fuck right off.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #31 on: 17 Jun 2014, 06:13 »

I am of the opinion that J.J. Abrams should GDIAF after what he did to Star Trek. Thus the reason for the "no lens flare" comment.

The worst episode of Enterprise is better than either ST reboot movie.

Um.

...Why?
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jwhouk

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #32 on: 17 Jun 2014, 08:19 »

Gimme a bit, when I'm able and have time.

ADD version: blowing up Vulcan sucked rocks.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #33 on: 17 Jun 2014, 16:07 »

The only consolation we can draw from the JJsuckverse is that like the Mirror Universe, it's an alternate timeline - one I hope we can ignore eventually.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #34 on: 17 Jun 2014, 18:58 »

I still don't really have the time for a proper response, but let's just say I fall in the camp that says Abrams went against everything that Rodenberry wanted the Star Trek universe to be.

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #35 on: 17 Jun 2014, 23:09 »

It's all been a dream/they were dead all along, anyway, so ....
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #36 on: 18 Jun 2014, 00:50 »

It was a reboot, of course it changes things, and Rodenberry also wanted a lot of insane bullshit in the Star Trek universe while he was alive that had to be strenuously ignored.

I'll happily wait for a proper response.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #37 on: 18 Jun 2014, 18:22 »

I still don't really have the time for a proper response, but let's just say I fall in the camp that says Abrams went against everything that Rodenberry wanted the Star Trek universe to be.

I would posit that the best Star Trek episodes are the ones that went against Roddenberry's happy clappy future, where technology is a cure-all for society's ills.  The best examples of this would be the TNG episode "First Contact" (not to be confused with the movie of the same name) and the DS9 episode "In the Pale Moonlight."

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #38 on: 18 Jun 2014, 19:33 »

I'm suspicious that this may be an age-related thing.

To those of us who grew up watching TOS - when it was the only Star Trek around - we thought of the series as a "how the future should be" kind of thing. It gave people hope - hope that this stupid Cold War that had us all scared to death would turn very, very hot would actually pass and we would be able to go out, explore the universe and boldly go, etc.

Yeah, the Klingons and the Romulans were ersatz Russians and Chinese. I know that. I also know that the Vulcans were, in some manner. an analogy to the Japanese. Rodenberry was a humanist, but had leanings towards Buddhism and Taoism. He believed that the human spirit would eventually win out over hatred.

Obviously, the generations that came after Star Trek hit the big screen for the first time only saw the caricatures of what Star Trek was - the fanfics, the cosplays, the jokes about Spock's ears and Shatner's rug, "Dammit, Jim!" and "Beam me up, Scotty." But what was lost in all the noise was what Star Trek was supposed to be about: optimism.

Yes, Spock in the original series lost a lot. The whole Reunification arc on TNG was fantastic (and appropriate, since Mark Lenard was in failing health). But to have a secondary plotline from Nemesis basically nuke all of Vulcan on a (relatively) flimsy premise? Oh, joy. Just what we always wanted: Emo-Spock.

And Kirk - look, I know Shatner hammed him up. His acting got parodied so much because HE WAS THE FREAKIN' MAIN CHARACTER. The whole story of "Wagon Train to the Stars" was based on that leader, boldly going and all that. And despite the characterization, he was a leader. Yes, he did things unconventionally at times, but he was more along the lines of the quote by the Dalai Lama: "Learn the rules completely so that you may break them properly." He didn't just go off and break the Prime Directive for the lulz, like Abrams had him do in Into Darkness. He always had a reason: previous contamination, absolutely no choice, they needed the whales. The character we have now is a carouser who'd be more likely to not even make it past his first year at the Academy, let alone be granted command of a starship. And the way that ID went, it was like, "Hey, let's reverse the roles of Kirk and Spock from TWOK, and see if anyone notices!" Guess what, JJ: we did.

It's already been mentioned about Bones. The Doctor was way, way, WAY more than just a paranoid luddite. I blame the bad original cut of ST:TMP for that. McCoy was the ego to Spock's id, and Kirk was the superego. The three of them were what really made the show - and what made the Enterprise successful.

The triad was the general formula for all iterations of ST prior to the reboot. TNG started off with Picard/Riker/Troi, then became Picard/Riker/Data, and then - as the series began to evolve - it became more of an ensemble production. But the ship was always Picard's. DS9 had Sisko, Dax and Kira. Voyager had Janeway, Chakotay and Paris. Enterprise had Archer, Tucker and T'Pol. But all of them were shadows of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

When Abrams did that temporal shift, he threw out decades - DECADES - of storylines and history and character development, just so he could use special effects and "inject life" into a series that was seen as "out of touch." Maybe what he should have done was go back and watch every single episode of all five series.

Instead, we got the STU version of "Hey, what if we killed off Obi-Wan instead of Qui-Gon Jin in Episode I?"

Just like Khan missing the target on the Genesis planet, Abrams missed what Star Trek was - and could be again, if done right.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #39 on: 18 Jun 2014, 19:43 »

Holy fuck can I quote that? Like every where?
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #40 on: 18 Jun 2014, 19:49 »

Go for it.

And... May you live long, and prosper. ;)


EDIT: Side note - I can do the Vulcan salute without having to make like Nimoy and put my hands together off-screen.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #41 on: 18 Jun 2014, 20:34 »

Me too!

But yeah J just summed up every issue I've ever had with the Abrams reboot. It's a neat little sci fi action flick but it's not Star Trek. If Star Trek taught me anything growing up it was to hope. To approach life with an open, curious mind, to live with an explorer's courage and to be undaunted even in the darkest depths of the doldrums. To wonder. The assorted heroes of Star Fleet did not go out into the universe to make war, or return it if offered, but to offer peace, kinship and knowledge, and ask for the same in return. As J said, the triumph of the human spirit. A bright and glorious future wherein we, a species who has many dark days in our past. That is in fact the entire point of the first two episodes of TNG, Encounter at Farpoint. We as a species LITERALLY being put on trial for our past by the omnipotent Q. Maybe it is a bit of a generation gap thing on some level... I was introduced to TOS and TNG before I got out of the cradle so I probably don't count as Gareth and I are pretty close to being in the same cohort as well as the same generation, the Berlin Wall fell shortly after my birth, I never learned the fear that my parents had to live with as they grew up in the 60s and 70s... but I learned to look for something more from our future, and that's the vision Star Trek gave me.

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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #42 on: 18 Jun 2014, 21:00 »

I think that's the major thing about it: TOS and TNG were written before the fall of the Berlin Wall. You who were born after 1990 have no idea what it was like, thinking that the world could conceivably end at any time, just because someone pushed a button.

Star Trek was a glimmer of hope through all this. We can get to the stars. We will get to the stars. We will explore new worlds; we will seek out new life forms, new civilizations - and befriend them, peacefully.

That was more important to us than anything: we will get through this. Sadly, it's something lacking in today's world.

Back to topic: you still have that Enterprise costume I recall seeing you in on the pictures thread, GM?
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GarandMarine

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #43 on: 18 Jun 2014, 21:11 »

Hell yes! It's my favorite last day of con cosplay. Few things are more comfortable than a flight suit



My defense for the 2368 Type 2 phase pistol and comm badge? Time travel :mrgreen:
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jwhouk

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #44 on: 18 Jun 2014, 21:23 »

Damn that Agent Daniels. ;)
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Thrillho

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #45 on: 19 Jun 2014, 06:02 »

I think that's the major thing about it: TOS and TNG were written before the fall of the Berlin Wall. You who were born after 1990 have no idea what it was like, thinking that the world could conceivably end at any time, just because someone pushed a button.

Star Trek was a glimmer of hope through all this. We can get to the stars. We will get to the stars. We will explore new worlds; we will seek out new life forms, new civilizations - and befriend them, peacefully.

That was more important to us than anything: we will get through this. Sadly, it's something lacking in today's world.

Back to topic: you still have that Enterprise costume I recall seeing you in on the pictures thread, GM?

First of all, I was born in 1988. Which is a semantic difference and while I do understand the gulfs of age, given that I have friends who I did the same uni course as who don't even remember when Yugoslavia was a country, that is incredibly patronising.

You don't have to paint me as having a complete lack of understanding for the semi-utopian ideas of the original series just because I liked the reboot and had less attachment to it than you do. Jokes about TOS are easy because of this blinkered, retconned view of what the series used to be, like nailing alien women when that only happened in like three episodes.

Can we really reasonably expect a two-hour movie - or two, although I've not seen the second one - to cram all the ideas that the original Star Trek had in and still have time for actual story development and action? While there may not have been the utopian edge, I found the first reboot film to capture another element of Star Trek that you seem to have overlooked, namely the sense of real adventure that I got from many of the best episodes. But it's also having to re-introduce a fairly large cast of characters in their new incarnations.
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jwhouk

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #46 on: 19 Jun 2014, 07:18 »

One of these days, see if you can find a copy of the TOS episode, "Space Seed." Then, follow that up by watching Wrath of Khan. THEN, follow that by watching Into Darkness.

Besides the obvious "different stories about the same people" and "different actors in different eras", see if you can figure out what the major difference between all three are.

I'll give you a hint: count the number of explosions, and count the number of dialogues and meaningful interactions between characters.
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"Character is what you are in the Dark." - D.L. Moody
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Thrillho

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #47 on: 19 Jun 2014, 07:26 »

Okay, now you're deliberately being patronising so I'm just going to check out of the discussion entirely.
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Pilchard123

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #48 on: 19 Jun 2014, 14:30 »

And on that note, what does Geordi see?
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #49 on: 19 Jun 2014, 16:22 »

I'm suspicious that this may be an age-related thing.

To those of us who grew up watching TOS - when it was the only Star Trek around - we thought of the series as a "how the future should be" kind of thing. It gave people hope - hope that this stupid Cold War that had us all scared to death would turn very, very hot would actually pass and we would be able to go out, explore the universe and boldly go, etc.

Yeah, the Klingons and the Romulans were ersatz Russians and Chinese. I know that. I also know that the Vulcans were, in some manner. an analogy to the Japanese. Rodenberry was a humanist, but had leanings towards Buddhism and Taoism. He believed that the human spirit would eventually win out over hatred.

Obviously, the generations that came after Star Trek hit the big screen for the first time only saw the caricatures of what Star Trek was - the fanfics, the cosplays, the jokes about Spock's ears and Shatner's rug, "Dammit, Jim!" and "Beam me up, Scotty." But what was lost in all the noise was what Star Trek was supposed to be about: optimism.

Yes, Spock in the original series lost a lot. The whole Reunification arc on TNG was fantastic (and appropriate, since Mark Lenard was in failing health). But to have a secondary plotline from Nemesis basically nuke all of Vulcan on a (relatively) flimsy premise? Oh, joy. Just what we always wanted: Emo-Spock.

And Kirk - look, I know Shatner hammed him up. His acting got parodied so much because HE WAS THE FREAKIN' MAIN CHARACTER. The whole story of "Wagon Train to the Stars" was based on that leader, boldly going and all that. And despite the characterization, he was a leader. Yes, he did things unconventionally at times, but he was more along the lines of the quote by the Dalai Lama: "Learn the rules completely so that you may break them properly." He didn't just go off and break the Prime Directive for the lulz, like Abrams had him do in Into Darkness. He always had a reason: previous contamination, absolutely no choice, they needed the whales. The character we have now is a carouser who'd be more likely to not even make it past his first year at the Academy, let alone be granted command of a starship. And the way that ID went, it was like, "Hey, let's reverse the roles of Kirk and Spock from TWOK, and see if anyone notices!" Guess what, JJ: we did.

It's already been mentioned about Bones. The Doctor was way, way, WAY more than just a paranoid luddite. I blame the bad original cut of ST:TMP for that. McCoy was the ego to Spock's id, and Kirk was the superego. The three of them were what really made the show - and what made the Enterprise successful.

The triad was the general formula for all iterations of ST prior to the reboot. TNG started off with Picard/Riker/Troi, then became Picard/Riker/Data, and then - as the series began to evolve - it became more of an ensemble production. But the ship was always Picard's. DS9 had Sisko, Dax and Kira. Voyager had Janeway, Chakotay and Paris. Enterprise had Archer, Tucker and T'Pol. But all of them were shadows of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

When Abrams did that temporal shift, he threw out decades - DECADES - of storylines and history and character development, just so he could use special effects and "inject life" into a series that was seen as "out of touch." Maybe what he should have done was go back and watch every single episode of all five series.

Instead, we got the STU version of "Hey, what if we killed off Obi-Wan instead of Qui-Gon Jin in Episode I?"

Just like Khan missing the target on the Genesis planet, Abrams missed what Star Trek was - and could be again, if done right.

Grud I'm tempted to Copy that and Paste it to the Closed Star Trek Group I'm a member of on FB.
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