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Author Topic: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before  (Read 35519 times)

Kugai

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #301 on: 17 May 2017, 23:36 »

So, basically, the Klingons aren't Vikings anymore, they're now orcs. Also, because... reasons... they've decided to redo Spock's entire "Am I Vulcan or am I Human?" subplot with the main character (because there are no original ideas left).

Okay, I know trailers are deceptive. CBS are telling us what they want us to think the show is about, not necessarily what it is about, so I'll withhold judgement on these things for now. One thing about which I will not withhold judgement is the appropriation of the original Babylon 5 crew uniforms.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #302 on: 18 May 2017, 02:17 »

What is it about the Klingons? Vulcans, Romulans, Andorians, Humans, Ferengi... all consistently represented physically (give or take the odd rubber forehead) but this is, what, the third revamp of the Klingons?
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #303 on: 18 May 2017, 17:10 »

Third time's the charm??
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #304 on: 18 May 2017, 23:09 »

It seems particularly silly considering the ridiculous retcon/justification inserted into Enterprise for the change in appearance of Klingons from ST:TOS to ST:TMP and later. So now the canon is that they changed, changed back, changed again, changed back again... Or is canon a thing any more?
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BenRG

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #305 on: 18 May 2017, 23:24 »

That's an interesting question, Akima. I'm increasingly wondering if each separate 'incarnation' of Trek (the original series & movies 1-6, the four 'Next Generation-era' shows and movies 7-9, the Abramsverse and now Discovery) should be considered parallel continuities that are similar but not identical and do not necessarily have the same histories and even the same physical laws in the background.

I'm not opposed to this concept. I would even argue that there is some basis for this in the official materials. For example, in The Original Series, warp factors were the cube root of the vessel's velocity multiplier of the speed of light. In The Next Generation, it was altered to a logarithmic scale that reached infinity at Warp 10 and Enterprise added a new modifier where certain subspace conditions could allow a starship to travel far faster than their notional warp speed and that there were 'express routes' between some major systems like Sol and Q'on'os (something that some writers, most notably William Shatner's ghostwriter, have suggested is artificial and possibly the work of the Next Generation-era's ancient God-species/progenitors of all intelligent life, the Preservers... but I digress). Simon Pegg (who ended up effectively writing Star Trek - Beyond) has also explicitly stated that his understanding is that the Abramsverse is a parallel universe rather than a divergent timeline.

As I said, there's no reason why this couldn't work and I'm happy enough with it as a meta-explanation. However, I'd have been grateful if this were clearly stated somehow. Spock could have mentioned it in ST2009 and, if they are doing the interdimensional thing in Discovery, it wouldn't be hard to drop it in (maybe have one of the Discovery's scans of the Swirly Space Anomaly Thingy show the Enterprise under Captain Pike).
« Last Edit: 19 May 2017, 02:44 by BenRG »
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #306 on: 19 May 2017, 01:27 »

With the way Discovery looks so far I'm having trouble believing all their protestations that it's in the Prime universe and isn't 10 years before ST '09. At this point they're flatly contradicting the visual aesthetic established in 'The Cage' and slightly continued in 'Where No Man Has Gone Before'. Canon has been kinda squiggly since the TV and movie rights were split up in '05 though.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #307 on: 19 May 2017, 16:28 »

One  of my own concerns is that Paramount/CBS essentially keeps 'Shitting On The Fanbase'.  If there is any way for them to kill off 'The Golden Goose', it's to continue to poss off and alienate  the fans the way they have in the recent few years.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #308 on: 31 Aug 2017, 01:59 »

Well, it looks like Discovery isn't dead in the water... yet. It's just turned up on Netflix to be released September 25th.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #309 on: 31 Aug 2017, 02:12 »

An interesting bit of information has emerged about both the J J Abrams reboot and Star Trek - Discovery.

It turns out that, when Viacom was split into Paramount Pictures and CBS Television by court order, CBS retained all rights to the Star Trek license and Paramount had only the right to make films and TV shows that had the name 'Star Trek'. Consequently, they would have needed to negotiate a separate license to use the trademarked imagery and art designs (such as the classic show uniforms, the starship designs and the set designs). Paramount have been unwilling to do so and CBS have apparently been somewhat unreasonable on the terms they are offering anyway. So, the reason why both the Abramsverse and Discovery look so different from the classic Trek, either subtly (as in the case of the Abramsverse uniforms) or overtly (the Discovery uniforms, starship aesthetic and Klingon make-up designs) is because they legally have to be different or Paramount & Bad Robot would be breaking trademark and copyright law.

It seems that the destiny of Star Trek is to die by being impaled by a pen on a copyright attorney's desk!
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #310 on: 31 Aug 2017, 15:35 »

That's fucking ridiculous

I've known THREE year old children better behaved than that!!!!!
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #311 on: 31 Aug 2017, 16:21 »

That said, the design of the Discovery resembles that of the ship for the cancelled 70s Star Trek film Planet of the Titans. When the film was cancelled, it was instead used for the proposed television series Star Trek Phase 2. Which itself was cancelled. And why we ended up with Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

Which in a way, makes Discovery the series before the films in more ways than one.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #312 on: 24 Sep 2017, 19:54 »

YouTube Reviewer Emergency Awesome has just dropped a Non-Spoilery Review of Discovery after he Previewed the first two Episodes



Just to be on the safe side .......

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #313 on: 25 Sep 2017, 02:23 »

It occurred to me today that the initialism for Star Trek: Discovery would be ST:D, which is a little unfortunate.

And I've already read internet comments that can't spell Shenzhou...

YouTube Reviewer Emergency Awesome has just dropped a Non-Spoilery Review of Discovery after he Previewed the first two Episodes
And this guy can't pronounce Shenzhou. Shen-zoo? :roll: It is shen-joe! Not difficult! Unless you're just using Chinese stuff as set dressing, and don't care about getting it right.
« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2017, 02:30 by Akima »
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #314 on: 25 Sep 2017, 09:33 »

I've been seeing some stuff about the show pop up on imgur.  No one has said their opinion yet.  Just a picture here and there and an occasional gif.

Never really been a fan of emergency awesome.  Has anyone here seen it yet?
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #315 on: 25 Sep 2017, 21:56 »

And this guy can't pronounce Shenzhou. Shen-zoo? :roll: It is shen-joe! Not difficult! Unless you're just using Chinese stuff as set dressing, and don't care about getting it right.

If it's any consolation, I'm watching it right now, it's being pronounced "Shen-joe" in series.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #316 on: 25 Sep 2017, 23:37 »

Yay, it is! Props to the team for that. They do have Michelle Yeoh to help them get it right, of course.
Edit: Removed unnecessary quotation.
« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2017, 23:47 by Akima »
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #317 on: 26 Sep 2017, 10:12 »

She also doesn't change her accent for this role, and, according to Wikipedia, "Yeoh also chose her own decorations for Georgiou's ready room, including Malaysian puppets and a bottle of Chateau Picard wine".
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #318 on: 27 Sep 2017, 08:06 »

How are you liking it hedgie?
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #319 on: 27 Sep 2017, 10:45 »

So far so good.  I have seen the first two episodes, and am awaiting the next one.  My only gripe is that they had to redesign the klingons yet again (not really a spoiler since it's in the first 10 seconds). However, the way things are now, I think that no matter how good it is, the show is doomed.  The release model of streaming-only on CBS's own service rather than one of the big three basically ensures that most won't watch, and the vast majority of those who do will torrent it rather than pay for another subscription.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #320 on: 27 Sep 2017, 11:12 »

Yeah, their business model seems counter productive.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #321 on: 27 Sep 2017, 11:46 »

I do wonder if they're trying to kill it off. Netflix effectively paid for its development, IIRC, so barring opportunity cost it's not exactly a loss if it "accidentally" has terrible ratings and isn't renewed.
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BenRG

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #322 on: 27 Sep 2017, 12:54 »

Well... Sorry but I wasn't greatly impressed. There was a lot of interesting potential in the story and characters alike but, in the end, it fell flat.

(click to show/hide)

Ben's Rating: 3.5/10
« Last Edit: 27 Sep 2017, 13:16 by BenRG »
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #323 on: 27 Sep 2017, 13:14 »

I have already seen it, but please do spoiler some of that stuff for those who have not.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #324 on: 27 Sep 2017, 15:21 »

Yeah, their business model seems counter productive.

That's why they're leading off with ST:D. They want a slice of that sweet, sweet streaming service money so they are leading off with a property that they know people want. Time will tell if they overestimated people's tolerance for blatant consumerism in their Star Trek.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #325 on: 27 Sep 2017, 17:28 »

She also doesn't change her accent for this role
Something that has gone down badly in some xenophobic quarters. As usual, many of the complaints about Ms. Yeoh not speaking "proper English" are sub-literate.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #326 on: 01 Oct 2017, 21:40 »

ST:D..

no spoiler here: it's BAD. nauseatingly, poorly acted, wasted money BAD.
remember BSG:2000 ?
ST:D is worse.
Gene is spinning in his grave.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #327 on: 02 Oct 2017, 07:42 »

I wasn't much for the new BSG.  My wife liked it though.
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BenRG

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #328 on: 02 Oct 2017, 12:12 »

Okay, now I've seen episode 3 and... Well, I know how sensitive the mods are to spoilers so open the post if you want the details, even though I tried to keep them spoiler-free

(click to show/hide)

BenRG's Rating: 5/10 (+half a point for the introduction of someone who is, so far, the only genuinely likeable member of the crew.)

(click to show/hide)
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #329 on: 02 Oct 2017, 21:01 »

I wasn't much for the new BSG.  My wife liked it though.

I stand corrected: when I talked of bad BSG, I meant GALACTICA 1980.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactica_1980

the 'new'BSG of 2004 was awesome.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #330 on: 03 Oct 2017, 07:03 »

I liked the pilot episodes (which on syfy was a 2 hour movie that came out a couple of years before the series was broadcasted) and I really enjoyed the idea.  Then it quickly got boring to me.  Admittedly I did not watch them in order and the episodes I did see were politically heavy handed.  I guess I wanted more war or a faster paced narrative (like the pilot).  One of these days I'll give it another try but I just haven't had the motivation to do so.

I have heard people suggest that if you like an idea behind a story but not its execution, to write you own.  I may just do that...but then Mass effect came out and the Quarians pretty much scratched that itch for me.
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Kugai

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #331 on: 03 Oct 2017, 20:29 »

I think enough time has gone by that I don't need to Spoiler this and I thought you would be interested in what this guy has to say as it's fairly well thought out and he's quite calm about his POV

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James The Kugai 

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BenRG

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #332 on: 31 Aug 2018, 08:25 »

Star Trek - Discovery sued for plagerism

I doubt that this lawsuit will succeed but it's getting a lot of publicity on-line and is the sort of self-inflicted cream pie in the face that CBS really doesn't want with a show that's struggling to find a place in some legacy fans' hearts (to the point where season 2 has a feeling of a soft reboot already).

The really worrying part is the similarities of some of the art and the way some character appearances and bios are worryingly similar. It's quite possible that some staff writers and story editors are going to be riding a boot out of the door and I suspect that Mr Abdin will be given several container-fulls of cash to shut up and go away.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #333 on: 07 Sep 2018, 18:27 »

I got my wife into TNG some time ago and she likes it.  She has started watching it when she gets our daughter ready for bed.  Picard's voice really soothes the baby to sleep.

Some of the episodes I remembered watching but its been so long it was great to see them again and with my wife who is a first timer. I collected some small notes and wanted to go down a nostalgia trip and list them off in the spoiler below.

(click to show/hide)
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #334 on: 06 Dec 2018, 07:42 »

It occurred to me today that the initialism for Star Trek: Discovery would be ST:D, which is a little unfortunate.
My favorite rapper, Schäffer the Darklord, often abbreviates his name to STD.
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BenRG

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #335 on: 06 Dec 2018, 07:55 »

It occurred to me today that the initialism for Star Trek: Discovery would be ST:D, which is a little unfortunate.

FWIW, the official abbreviation is 'DIS', which follows the precedent of Star Trek - Voyager being 'VOY' and Star Trek - Enterprise being 'ENT'. That said 'DIS' has its' own unfortunate connotations, given how lots of fans seem to feel about the show.

Nothing confirmed and only passing on hearsay at the moment but there do seem to be serious rumblings about the show's future amongst the upper echelons at CBS. I suppose this might be because it was very much Les Moonves' personal pet project and may be considered tainted simply by association with him. Additionally, Netflix demanding a huge distribution license fee cut and not being willing to host the inter-season shorts at any price may also have some decision-makers' fingers edging towards the 'Cancel' button.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #336 on: 25 Jan 2019, 05:48 »

My new place comes with basic cable. I finally saw the Orville last night. It was really good and very star trekky, especially the ending.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #337 on: 29 Jan 2019, 13:27 »

I like Discovery a lot but The Orville is more of a true successor to Trek's legacy than anything since Next Gen was last on television.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #338 on: 29 Jan 2019, 16:03 »

I think the reason why the latter series never really worked was because the showrunners wanted to recapture the spark that worked for the Original series.

The Original Series worked because it tapped into the sense of anything was possible in the Cold War/Space Race. You had the crew of the Enterprise, the Captain and Chief Medical officers were American, the ship was helmed by Japanese-American and Soviet officers, the Executive Officer was half-human-half-alien, the communications officer was African and the Chief Engineer was Scottish. That was something that you didn't see a lot of. Bear in mind that for many people who watched and enjoyed the original series, World War Two was still fresh in the collective consciousness, along with the Civil Rights Movement and more understanding about the world and the universe and its then you realise TOS came along at just the right time.

Likewise, The Next Generation was lucky in the sense that Glosnast and Perestroika was prevalent in the late 80s, meaning they could look at the thawing of the relationship between the West and the Soviet bloc, through the improving relationship between the Federation and the Klingons. With Roddenberry taking a step back after the first season, the show was really allowed to do its own thing. And it worked for them, due to the talent of the cast. I think Dr. Pulaski's short tenure helped cement the realisation that they couldn't make TOS Mk. 2. And you know what? Good. You had a different cast and different characters with whom you could explore different ideas; such as Data contrasting Spock by wanting to be more human. Or stories of differing moral and ethical implications - such as when Worf was paralysed and wanted to commit ritual suicide. Do you think TOS would have tackled that?

Deep Space 9 worked because they went for a whole different tact. Rather than focusing on exploration, they went and looked at the Federation and how fragile it actually was. The conflict with the Borg and the later Dominion War took a heavy toll on the Federation and its allies. Yes, you had battles, you had small wars, but never a war on the scale that the Borg and Dominion brought. You saw the Federation having to examine its ideals and what it would have to stand for.

Voyager felt a lot like Lost In Space but with photon torpedoes and a bipolar captain (Kate Mulgrew's own interpretation of Janeway). The core idea of the show was sound. A Federation starship, far from home, lost in an alien and unknown part of the galaxy. It could have opened up whole new stories, different kind of ideas and again, an examination of what they thought the Federation was. Unfortunately, the executives and the showrunners couldn't decide what to do and the latter half of the series felt like the Jeri Ryan Show, With Special Guests.

Enterprise had the same problem as Voyager, the writers and showrunners not having a clue of what to do. We could have seen Starfleet's first contacts with some of the classic Star Trek races. Instead we got 2 and a half seasons of "Vulcans are Jerks, but they're actually Romulans" and the Xindi season. I wasn't against the Xindi arc, but it dragged on. And then we get a finale focusing on Troi and Riker, which felt like a cheap shot.

Then there's Discovery, which to be fair, I haven't seen, but from what I gather, its too dark and too grim to be a Star Trek.
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LeeC

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #339 on: 29 Jan 2019, 16:33 »


Enterprise had the same problem as Voyager, the writers and showrunners not having a clue of what to do. We could have seen Starfleet's first contacts with some of the classic Star Trek races. Instead we got 2 and a half seasons of "Vulcans are Jerks, but they're actually Romulans" and the Xindi season. I wasn't against the Xindi arc, but it dragged on. And then we get a finale focusing on Troi and Riker, which felt like a cheap shot.

The characters were interesting but I felt like Scott Backula was a terrible casting choice. I need to revisit the series but you hit the nail on the head.  They had so much potential but I feel like it was squandered.

Also:
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #340 on: 29 Jan 2019, 16:44 »

You're right, Scott Bakula was a poor choice, not because he's a poor actor, but I think a certain amount of people would keep thinking "When is Sam Beckett going to leap from this?". Though to be fair, the writers couldn't decide what to do for Archer and so they could never play up to Bakula's ability as a performer.

Interesting fact, its believed that during production, Archer's first name was going to be Jeffery. Until UK fans pointed out that its the same name as a disgraced author, actor and former minister. Then they were going to name him Jackson. Only to find out that there was exactly one Jackson Archer in the US. So to avoid a lawsuit, they finally settled on the name Jonathan, because there were 20 Jonathan Archers.

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LeeC

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #341 on: 30 Jan 2019, 04:06 »

I don't know, he always seemed exacerbated when performing in Enterprise. Maybe its just the episodes I watched, but it just felt off with him. He didn't seem to standout from his subordinates like previous captains.  Felt more like a civilian boat rather than pulling from earth naval traditions like the other series. But that's just one little bear's opinion.

Also Jeffrey Combs is a national treasure!
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Castlerook

Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #342 on: 30 Jan 2019, 09:38 »

He's probably wondering why he hasn't been able to leap out of that body yet and why Al and Ziggy haven't been able to help.
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #343 on: 30 Jan 2019, 10:13 »

Haha I agree. No offense to Scott, I've seen quantum leap and he was fantastic. I just felt like he wasn't a good fit and they could have cast someone else. Also wasn't a fan of the opening theme. Just felt out of place. And that Vulcans can't stand the stench of humans and need to take smell numbing meds seems contrived, but perhaps I am nitpicking.
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Castlerook

Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #344 on: 30 Jan 2019, 10:59 »

You know what, let's just say Enterprise had a lot of problems. But hey, at least it's initials don't spell STD.
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LeeC

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #345 on: 30 Jan 2019, 12:00 »

I think its weakest point was trying to retcon things instead of just having fun with it. There are still great episodes, archs, and characters.

edit: another thing that bugged me: vulcan mind melds are taboo and work like a HIV/AIDS proxy. Just...why?!

I was re-reading my earlier post on TNG (located in the spoiler) and it really does seem like The Orville would be the natural sequel to it. I mean just look at my terrible Netflix style descriptions. These are real episodes in a "serious" star trek show!
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2019, 12:17 by LeeC »
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #346 on: 31 Jan 2019, 05:38 »

Voyager felt a lot like Lost In Space but with photon torpedoes and a bipolar captain (Kate Mulgrew's own interpretation of Janeway).

I hate Mulgrew's Captain Janeway with a passion. Every time she leans on Chakotay I want to scream and throw things. First female Captain and of course she needs a strong, silent type at her side.  :x

Enterprise had the same problem as Voyager, the writers and showrunners not having a clue of what to do. We could have seen Starfleet's first contacts with some of the classic Star Trek races. Instead we got 2 and a half seasons of "Vulcans are Jerks, but they're actually Romulans" and the Xindi season. I wasn't against the Xindi arc, but it dragged on. And then we get a finale focusing on Troi and Riker, which felt like a cheap shot.

I seem to be one of the few people who genuinely enjoyed that show. I loved the time devoted to the exploration of Vulcan history and the evolution of their philosophy and mental discipline. I didn't feel them to be jerks - thought there were the strong hints that individual Vulcans were being jerks who can't admit to their jerkitude, which in turn enables the jerkitude - but rather still dealing with the collective trauma of their near self-extinction, and projecting those memories of failure, guilt and loss onto the humans they keep patronizing (also their struggle with the compromised reproductions of Surak's teachings). Which totally makes sense to me as a German, as there is a school of criticism alleging we are doing pretty much the same. I felt that Trip & T'Pol broke those underlying currents nicely, since initially, Trip was the bumbling, bubbly sum of all Vulcan fears about humanity, and T'Pol's struggle with her complex loyalties and later with her attraction to Trip gave nuance to the Vulcan Jerkitude. To me, Trip was initially the male version of Firefly's Kayleigh - the adorable, cheerful hornball genius mechanic. He gets more shadows and depth later on (especially during the Xindi-arc), but initially, he was the guy who manages to get himself preggers the second the adults let him out of their sights.

I felt that Flox was a genuinely new character rather than a reference or contrast to a character that had already appeared earlier in the franchise. Enjoyed his screentime very much.

Archer's character was a bit ... like Pre-ROTS Luke Skywalker: Originally destined for romance with T'Pol (Leia), the writers suddenly had shifted much of the emotional exploration onto Trip, so Archer became 'just the (American) Captain' (That face really screams American "Leadership!" McSpaceshipCaptain). I thought that Jolene Blalock did a great job in Season 1 subverting her own role as SevenOfNine Mk.2 (especially that uniform :facepalm:) and through that gained a lot of freedom to develop the character later on.

The Xindi-arc was long, true, but I felt that appropriate, as it put into question the entire character-development of the nascent Federation (that has largely been taken for granted in most franchises. See below). Initially the humans' attitude was like that of the FBI-team in The Kingdom: 'We will kill them all' - totally un-Trek. It wasn't at all clear how they'd go from that to the do-gooder Federation of Picard's times.

And I liked the Enterprise's Enterprise - how weak and vulnerable it was initially. They spend the bulk of the first season shouting 'We come in peace!' to the Universe and getting the shit kicked out of them for their trouble, mostly barely surviving conflicts with grumpy impoverished traders. And I loved how utterly unimpressed the other races were with the wide-eyed newcomers - just as T'Pol had told them.

The first contact with the Klingons was disappointing, true, but methinks that may have been down to continuity concerns - a lot of that had already been explored in earlier series. Otoh, we got a nice first contact and conflicted relationship with the Andorrans, who ... haven't been anything but a redshirt race since that one episode in TOS?

And the Vulcans being (tamed) Romulans? That felt more like an idea that TOS never managed to flesh out.

Then there's Discovery, which to be fair, I haven't seen, but from what I gather, its too dark and too grim to be a Star Trek.

Ok, now I have to watch it. Post-TNG Trek always felt a little bit too heavy on the "UN in space"-side to me - which is the biggest criticism I have of everything except Enterprise (The only series that featured humans actually having to work against their dark impulses when in a state of shock and fear, instead their innate goodness just being taken for granted, courtesy of some mythical historical process: "'We have moved past all that' - Shiny! HOW?"). TOS was a cold-war series. Humanity in the 1960s genuinely and reasonably feared extinction at its own hands. TOS is an unabashedly unrealistic utopian fantasy - Roddenberry had to 'dream big', because reality was so horrible. That pressure was much weaker after the Cold War, and I felt that later franchises, especially Voyager (Ugh!) were far too sugary in their sweeping assumptions about human ethical standards.
« Last Edit: 31 Jan 2019, 06:16 by Case »
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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #347 on: 31 Jan 2019, 08:04 »

As much as I dislike Voyager (and believe me, I really dislike the show), I have nothing but sympathy for most of the cast, as out of any series in the franchise, they ended up being royally screwed over by the writers and executives.

- Kate Mulgrew wasn't the first choice to play Janeway. She was only brought in because Genevieve Bujold quit after a day and a half of production (due to being a film actress, she was unused to the intensity of television production). A lot of the tension reported during the production was down to Mulgrew being slowly shifted to the sideline in order to promote Seven of Nine (which totally had nothing to do with Jeri Ryan dating Brannon Braga during production). Considering that the face of the show is the Captain, it is disgusting that they did this with the series' first female captain.
- Garrett Wang was basically left on the conn because the producers wanted someone to be the ensign, basically the low man on the totem pole.
- Robert Beltran made it clear that he had signed on to star with Genevieve Bujold and not Kate Mulgrew. Because the producers wouldn't let him out of the contract, he was forced to be in a show he didn't want to be on. (Now, granted he was a dickhead a lot of the time, but they could have easily let him go. They didn't)

Really, the list goes on. But there was a lot of potential that was wasted because of the producers, writers and executives.
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LeeC

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #348 on: 31 Jan 2019, 19:22 »

Holy shit.  :psyduck:

I just watched another episode of the Orville and the plot was similar and executed better than a particular TNG episode. A crew member develops feelings for the Robot crew member and they start a relationship. I was tearing up watching this because it felt so...good. It was done better than the Data's girlfriend episode. It was just wonderful and sparked feelings and wonder like when I was a kid watching TNG.

This show has no right to be this good but Fox has really outdone themselves and got their own Star Trek show. Its really weird that they pitched or advertised the show initially as family guy star trek because the last two episodes I've watched is really different from that.  I may be a bit biased as I have only seen 2 episodes but it just makes me want to watch more. I look forward to Thursdays now to watch it.
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Case

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Re: To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before
« Reply #349 on: 02 Feb 2019, 14:46 »

I don't know, he always seemed exacerbated when performing in Enterprise. Maybe its just the episodes I watched, but it just felt off with him. He didn't seem to standout from his subordinates like previous captains. Felt more like a civilian boat rather than pulling from earth naval traditions like the other series.

But that's just one little bear's opinion.

No, I had the same feeling - though I find it hard to pin it down why, and can readily come up with counter-examples of why it shouldn't feel that way - e.g. an entire season spent on the Big-E basically operating as a warship - but still, it does.

I think it's in the little things - e.g. the way he is contrasted with Malcolm Reed, the self-professed Navy Man. Mostly though, I think its down to Archer being "Air Force rather than Navy" - the flashbacks to the NX-programme felt like the screenwriter's bookclub had just chewed through Yeager's The Right Stuff.
« Last Edit: 02 Feb 2019, 16:07 by Case »
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