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This week on QC...

Now departing the USS MartenClaire *bell rings*
- 122 (56.7%)
Jephizba trolls us all, hallowed be the trollmaster's name.
- 32 (14.9%)
Spatheham and Clairemom Pancakes
- 7 (3.3%)
A solid week of Steve eating cereal
- 9 (4.2%)
Martenmom and Clairemom team up and fight crime/meddle in their children's personal lives
- 45 (20.9%)

Total Members Voted: 203

Voting closed: 09 Oct 2014, 22:04


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Author Topic: WCDT: 2806-2810 (6th - 10th October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 163299 times)

TomOBedlam

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Why am I checking the main page? I know what happens!

Conditioning  :wink:  I'm doing it too...
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Method of Madness

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Honestly, I usually find out from you guys that there's a new comic :roll:
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Netrunner

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I keep trying to type in 2809, but it keeps not working.  :-P
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No_Dragons_Here

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I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.
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treyhawk

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Have just seen 2807, have not yet seen 2808.  Yea for Marten and Claire, but no squee.  I'm reserving the squee for the impossible:  Marten-Hannelore.
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TomOBedlam

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Even though there can be no surprises today (really?) 2808 was/is a delightful and tremendoulsy significant entry :-)  Also, seeing it before I saw 2807, I thought "damn, Jeph is really getting the hang of jumping ahead and expecting the readers to keep up".
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brew

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Then marten has his little curiosity about Emily, and then "oh look, he's drunk with Claire again"!  She's clearly had a thing for him, but he's neither done nor said anything that would make anyone think he likes her - he's had conversations, but nothing intimate - but oh, he's drunk with her again... and now all of a sudden he has feelings for her?

I feel similarly. Not that I don't think it could've happened eventually, but we just had this thing about Emily where he says he wouldn't want to date an intern (I know it's an excuse, but still, he said it out loud), and then immediately this happens? What was even the point of the Emily arc?
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MooskiNet

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What was even the point of the Emily arc?

Story's still in progress.  Who knows?
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T

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Then marten has his little curiosity about Emily, and then "oh look, he's drunk with Claire again"!  She's clearly had a thing for him, but he's neither done nor said anything that would make anyone think he likes her - he's had conversations, but nothing intimate - but oh, he's drunk with her again... and now all of a sudden he has feelings for her?

I feel similarly. Not that I don't think it could've happened eventually, but we just had this thing about Emily where he says he wouldn't want to date an intern (I know it's an excuse, but still, he said it out loud), and then immediately this happens? What was even the point of the Emily arc?

To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.
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Rghfrgl

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Have just seen 2807, have not yet seen 2808.  Yea for Marten and Claire, but no squee.  I'm reserving the squee for the impossible:  Marten-Hannelore.

"Because of you I've finally figured out what I want to do with my life, the man I want to be."

"Hannelore, would you be willing to spend the rest of your life with me, Marten Reed. Fireman."

(click to show/hide)
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TomOBedlam

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To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.

Are we reading the same comic?  That would be cruel, and not in keeping with the 'theme' of the QCverse, which seems to revolve around kindness and acceptance.
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No_Dragons_Here

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"Because of you I've finally figured out what I want to do with my life, the man I want to be."

"Hannelore, would you be willing to spend the rest of your life with me, Marten Reed. Fireman."

(click to show/hide)

With Marten Reed on the job, no burning building will ever be safe!

...

...

...
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Ustrello

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Welp 2808 is up and no mistake 2809 good night folks
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T

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To crush Emily's heart. Now she will pretend to be happy about it and even be their confident while all this eats her from inside.

Are we reading the same comic?  That would be cruel, and not in keeping with the 'theme' of the QCverse, which seems to revolve around kindness and acceptance.

Doesn't means that conflicts doesn't happen
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1799

Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.
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TomOBedlam

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Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.

That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean).  I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.
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T

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Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.

That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean).  I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.

I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.
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vforvancouver

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Damn, there wasn't a new Questionablecontentgate comic today... Well, there was, but it was not new since yesterday... :psyduck:

What the hell, I'll just keep squeeeeeeeeeeeeeing and reading the forums.
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Penquin47

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Also Emily would still be kind and accepting. She would support them because she is friend of them both and want them to be happy.

That's true, of course (about conflict, I mean).  I was just reacting to the idea of 'crushing' one of the characters, which seemed, well, out of character for the strip as a whole, I guess.

I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.

While emotional pain is part of the comic, it feels wrong for Jeph to write a story where the point is to crush a character.  "The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on Marten, the Dora/Marten breakup either, Sven cheating on Faye wasn't about hurting Faye.
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TomOBedlam

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I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.

Yes, I know what you mean - I just can't see that happening to someone as defenceless as Emily (seemingly, and perhaps she only seems so to me - mostly basing this on her reaction to 'give peas a chance').
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mikmaxs

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I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I feel similarly. While I do ship the two of them, it doesn't feel right that they're actually *together*. (At least, not at this point.) I've slowly been waning on QC in general (Which sucks, because it's my No3 Webcomic behind XKCD and Dumbing Of Age) mainly because I feel like there hasn't been any natural drama or conflict in the past few hundred comics. It's like I'm watching season 6 of House: We've got about triple the cast, all of the original arcs have been finished for years, and the characters are so developed that they're barely even the same people anymore. All the new conflict feels kind of forced-in because it either has to come as a surprise within the cast (IE Angus wants to live somewhere else and work on a talk show, something we didn't find out until he'd been around for over a thousand comics,) or else as a random external force that didn't exist until recently.

I really don't know what could be done about this, it's just a problem that exists with works that last this long. The best fix I've seen is to slowly add new characters with their own problems, but that only works for so long before you've got a replacement set of main characters, who are stepping in for your FIRST set of replacement main characters. Heck, we've got three characters permanently written out of QC at this point, and that's not mentioned the copious characters who barely ever show up anymore. (Raven, Steve, Cosette, Wil, Penelope... Even the smaller Anthro-PCs, Pintsize and Winslow, haven't really made noteworthy appearances as of late.)

It just doesn't feel like I'm reading the same comic anymore.
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Method of Madness

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"The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on Marten
I thought the entire comic was to inflict pain on Marten ::)
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TomOBedlam

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While emotional pain is part of the comic, it feels wrong for Jeph to write a story where the point is to crush a character.  "The Talk" didn't happen because Jeph wanted to inflict pain on Marten, the Dora/Marten breakup either, Sven cheating on Faye wasn't about hurting Faye.

Yes, thank you, this is what I was thinking but couldn't express properly :-)
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Perfectly Reasonable

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Usually I read the whole thread before commenting, but tl,dr. And is there such a thing as a squee filter?

Next comic: Angus is offered a minor part on a trial basis. Further uncertainty ensues...
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ZoeB

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I'm not in the habit of reviewing the relationships of fictional character, but I can't shake the feeling that this romance is more... real, somehow, than Marten's previous things. And above all, it feels like a relationship in which all Marten's strengths - his kindness, tolerance and general laid-backness - might shine more brightly than before.
+1 Insightful. You expressed my thoughts better than even I could.
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TheCollector

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It's funny - I'm pretty sure Jeph's had this in mind for a while, at least since early June.  Marten, though - I think he got a couple or four drinks in him, put his hands in Claire's hair and found out where his heart was all at once.  The narrative there is sparse, and Jeph's commentary seems to indicate he'd rather go with fewer words of dialogue rather than more, but I can easily put myself in Marten's place - once upon a time I discovered I was crazy about a girl while I was helping her walk a few feet over to her crutches.  Before she put her arm around my neck, I'd never thought of her as anything more than another student in my art class.

Maybe that's what it is - if you can identify with this situation, it makes you squee.  If you can't, it makes you scratch your head.

I have to back this up completely. I mean, I have no experiance with it in real life, but I can't name the number of times when a character in something I never looked twice at did one simple thing that made me fall in love with them out of the blue, some of whom I hated before hand.
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Mojo

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I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I'm kind of in this group too.  There's just something doesn't "feel" right about it, but I can't identify what.  I know there has been a little buildup, so it's not that.  Perhaps it's that Marten seems rather out of character.  He's usually a little neurotic, a little uncertain.  This is a totally different Marten, just diving in and showing no sign of uncertainty or confusion.

Character growth?  Perhaps, it just seems rather sudden.
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T

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I'm not talking about crushing her physically. But people crushed emotionally is part of the comic.

Yes, I know what you mean - I just can't see that happening to someone as defenceless as Emily (seemingly, and perhaps she only seems so to me - mostly basing this on her reaction to 'give peas a chance').

Did Marten ever did something to deserve all the crap he got? There doesn't need to be a reason to why things don't work out for some people. She liked someone but this someone ends up with her friend.
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Fig

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Nope, no matter how many times I look at it Claire's faces are just so adorable.  That is what pure, unadulterated happiness looks like.
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.  Through passion I gain strength.  Through strength, power.  Through power, victory.  Through victory, my chains are broken.  The force shall set me free.

Aziraphale

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It's funny - I'm pretty sure Jeph's had this in mind for a while, at least since early June.  Marten, though - I think he got a couple or four drinks in him, put his hands in Claire's hair and found out where his heart was all at once.  The narrative there is sparse, and Jeph's commentary seems to indicate he'd rather go with fewer words of dialogue rather than more, but I can easily put myself in Marten's place - once upon a time I discovered I was crazy about a girl while I was helping her walk a few feet over to her crutches.  Before she put her arm around my neck, I'd never thought of her as anything more than another student in my art class.

Maybe that's what it is - if you can identify with this situation, it makes you squee.  If you can't, it makes you scratch your head.

Definitely part of it. There are things I'm seeing lately in-comic that remind me of things that have happened in my own life. Sometimes it's not a concrete chain of events to get you from friends or strangers to lovers. Sometimes there's nothing that's rational about it, and trying to rationalize it kinda misses the point of it. Sure, it'd make a lousy detective story, but when it happens... damn.
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eschaton

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Going to be blunt...I'm just revolted in this way of thinking. Marten was not "looking for a hole to fill". That's not what happened here, and this an inhumane interpretation. It's not about being "completed" or about "decisiveness"

Life throws you things, whether you're ready or not. For the past few years in the comic, Marten has been learning to deal with those curveballs, and more and more, he's been the one his friends have been coming to when they've got something going on. If you haven't noticed that change, that's unfortunate, because it's one of the best things of the comic these days. Claire's reveal of her feelings for Marten was the latest thing, probably the most important thing, and he reacted in a way that's far more grownup and mature than any of the other characters have shown so far in similar situations.

Yeah, Marten still hasn't figured out what to do with his life. Got news for you....the vast majority of people never do. How many people actually use their college degree? How many people actually manage to achieve whatever life plan they concoct when they're in their mid-20s? Most drift from job to job finding something we enjoy doing that pays the bills and buys a little freedom. It's what we actually do in the time we have and with the people we're given that makes our life and leaves our memory. You paint Marten as a near-worthless, listless man, yet you never consider the value of his life to Faye, Nora, Tai, and Hanners. The man is better than you're painting, and so is his life.

I honestly don't think I've seen the same level of development in Marten as much of the cast.  I mean as I said, Faye kept true to herself but dealt with her trust issues and fucked-uppedness quite well.  Hell, up until Jeph decided to make him into a dick again, I loved where Sven was going in terms of development - his redemption arc seemed like a real thing, and his (platonic) date with Hanners was so cute. 

What's helped Marten over time to become the person who people go to with problems is that he developed friends he had no romantic interest in (besides Steve).  In the early comics there was really no one for him to talk to but Faye and Dora.  Then he got Hanners, and then Tai.  Tai especially was important, because she was for a long time (like Steve) the only one who was mainly a friend of Marten, and not a friend of "the gang" with Marten as a part of it. 

I've been assuming that Claire's mom is roughly twice Claire's age, which would make her 48, more or less. And incidentally the same age as my wife.

I dunno, 24 seems young to have kids these days.  Hell, it even seems a little young for someone college educated (which I'm guessing Claire's mom is) to have kids at in 1990. 

[1] Without going into too much speculation, Marigold and Dale might have a problem there. If watching anime, playing WoW and having sex is all they do, that may yield a strong emotional bond, but not an intellectual one. A longterm relationship needs both, with the latter becoming more important the longer the relationship lasts.

Honestly, I think Marigold is an awful character with no redeeming qualities.  She's self-absorbed, not funny, and oddly stupid for someone who knows a lot about computers.  Dale is way too good for her. 

I forsee the relationship drama to happen with Faye and Angus though.  I'll bet Angus gets the job in NYC.  Faye says it's okay for him to go.  But then one of two things happen.

1.  She preemptively breaks up with him
2.  She gets lonely and somehow ends up screwing Sven when drunk.  Which really makes her hate herself. 

Have you never had a friend that suddenly became a romantic interest? It's happened a couple of times to me. Sometimes it's cause the friendship to fall apart, (I hope that's not what's going to happen here.) and sometimes it's just been a thing that runs it's natural course and then we ended it as friends. These things happen, and in reading back to the wedding arc, that's what I see here. You have two people that are friends and are comfortable around each other. Marten getting a little tipsy and playing with Claire's hair is something I could see myself doing to a friend, and when I woke up the next morning, if I remembered there being a spark of something there from the other person, I'd evaluate my feelings.

Back when I was in high school and college, I had plenty of friendships which over a period of weeks to months, turned into infatuations.  Arguably I was in love with some of them.  Tha said, none of them ever loved me back, and in each case I pissed away most of a year pining away for them only to get shot down.  By the time I was 23, and still a virgin, I decided to try dating instead of hoping my female friends would love me back.  Lost the V quick, and in a few more years of casual dating/fucking around/short term relationships I finally found someone to marry.  Someone who I loved with all my heart based upon the trust and respect that grew between us, but for whom I never felt that butterflies in stomach crap. 

So yeah, nothing about this sort of scenario makes me squee.  There's nothing about it I could relate to.  Not like the Martin/Faye dynamic back in the day, which really spoke to me, because that's pretty much what my experience with women was like a few years before the comic started. 

Maybe romance is't for suckers, but I certainly saw no reason to believe in it in life personally.  Real love is a lot of hard work. 

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character.  I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever. 
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ZoeB

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How many people actually manage to achieve whatever life plan they concoct when they're in their mid-20s?

At age 10, in 1968, there were a number of goals I set for myself.
  • Emigrate to Australia. (Happened sooner than I planned)
  • Travel the world. (Thailand, Switzerland, Italy, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, South Korea, Hong Kong, even Akron Ohio)
  • Have a large family, many babies (as it turned out, "one" was large given my unusual biology)
  • Have a lifetime partner, a husband (had to make some compromises there due to biology again)
  • Work on a space project in 2001 (I thought I might be working on the Moon of course.. but I did help create an advanced satellite then)
  • Study Pure Maths and Astrophysics (I dropped Astrophysics for Computer Science, which didn't exist as a course in 68)
  • Get a doctorate (I'm still working on that, preparing my thesis)

OK, that's probably unusual. But along the way, I've done so much more as well.

Quote
You paint Marten as a near-worthless, listless man, yet you never consider the value of his life to Faye, Nora, Tai, and Hanners. The man is better than you're painting, and so is his life.
While I don't think he was portrayed that badly, you have it right. He's one of the good guys.
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There was this girl when I was in college, about 2 years younger than me.  She was still in high school when we first met.  We were both involved with the SCA, an historical re-enactment group focused on the middle ages.  We both played music, singing together (we know several of he same esoteric pieces), and generally had a good time in each other's company.  She had a boyfriend with whom she was serious, and I was engaged. 

A few years went by - the engagement ended, and I had and had broken up with another girlfriend.  Her boyfriend went away after graduation, and she'd been seeing a couple of other guys casually.  We talked all the time, about each other's love life, our friends, everything - we were good friends. 

One evening I got a call.  It was her 19th birthday, and her parents had stopped by basically to disown her, since she was not going to school and "doing something" with her life.  She was asked not to come home to see any of her younger siblings (her stepmom was a real dick).  Her roommate had just left town, she was short on the rent and didn't even have a TV anymore to distract her from her troubles.  I brought her my old B&W TV, which I never watched anyway.  I visited daily to make sure she was alright.  A few days later, I brought over some laundry - she had a washer/dryer, and I really didn't want to go to the laundromat. 

She made me spaghetti. 

My laundry basket never made it back to my house.  It just... felt right.  It was sudden, and surprising to both of us.  I let my lease go, and moved in. 

Two years later, we were married.  That was in 1986.  We've had issues, and ups and downs.  But we're still best friends. 

It happens.  Just like this.  One minute, you're sitting beside each other on a couch watching TV, waiting for the dryer, and the next you're in each other's arms, and never going back. 
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Netrunner

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Back when I was in high school and college, I had plenty of friendships which over a period of weeks to months, turned into infatuations.  Arguably I was in love with some of them.  Tha said, none of them ever loved me back, and in each case I pissed away most of a year pining away for them only to get shot down.  By the time I was 23, and still a virgin, I decided to try dating instead of hoping my female friends would love me back.  Lost the V quick, and in a few more years of casual dating/fucking around/short term relationships I finally found someone to marry.  Someone who I loved with all my heart based upon the trust and respect that grew between us, but for whom I never felt that butterflies in stomach crap. 

So yeah, nothing about this sort of scenario makes me squee.  There's nothing about it I could relate to.  Not like the Martin/Faye dynamic back in the day, which really spoke to me, because that's pretty much what my experience with women was like a few years before the comic started. 

Maybe romance is't for suckers, but I certainly saw no reason to believe in it in life personally.  Real love is a lot of hard work. 

True love is hard work, but falling in love is super easy. Any little thing with any person can trigger it. Maybe that's what we've just witnessed. I'm a hopeless romantic and it's one of the things that made my wife fall for me in the first place.  Give Claireten a chance. They've got the easy part done, now comes the hard part of making it work.
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AliceGroove

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While I'd agree that Marten vacillating on the subject of Claire would be more consistent with the character as he's been written... in recent months we've seen him grow quite a bit (specifically realizing that the one-night stand version of life wasn't what he was looking for) and he's exactly the type of person who wouldn't freak out over something like the object of his affection being trans. With his... ahem... "non-traditional" familial background, closeness with his bi ex (and her GF) and the ease with which he accepted Claire back in 2323, this seems (to this observer) as something he'd have less difficulty with than the 'average' schmoe. I always expect Marten to freak over minutiae... but he seems to come through when things get real. 

I genuinely feel for folks who see this as 'abrupt' or 'fanserviced'. Not in a condescending way, mind you, but honestly. I've only been a devoted reader of QC since around the introduction of Marigold. I can't speak to the waves of characters you've lost or seen pushed to the sidelines to make way for the current arcs... especially if you felt heavily invested in those. But such is the way of SOL webcomics. I've been an avid GWS reader forever... and the sidelineing of several of my favorite characters there has me grumpy.

I disagree (despite my propensity for Squee-ing) for the following reasons:

1.) Claire's been around for 600+ strips... about 20% of the total run of the strip....
2.) Claire's non-cis gender identity has been known (to the audience) for almost 500 strips (about 17%)
3.) Claire and Marten have shown chemistry on and off (IMO) since the Wedding Arc (400ish strips... about 14%)
... all told that (from my vantage) speaks against any 'sudden' arguments.

4.) While there's a large portion of the fanbase that's been heavily lobbying for this pairing - its not as though Jeph gives in with any frequency. The sheer volume of Hannelore-related shipping he's fought against should lend credence to his unwillingness to give in to popular demand.

All that said... while the Claire/Marten ship is sailing... but that doesn't mean smooth seas lie ahead. Marten's words the past two strips have been golden... (A+, in fact) but that doesn't mean a cisgendered man with no experience dating a transwoman is going to be a sheet cake made of victory and talking owls [line stolen... I'm not that witty]. And while we have our romcom dashing moment, our profession of love (or 'like' as it were)... the honeymoon stage will end... probably rapidly. Claire is far from perfect... she's jealous, jumps to conclusions faster than you can lay down the mat... and her inexperience with relationships should be a wonderful well from which to draw from. And even if Marten's recent turn indicates real growth... that's great (Yay character development!)... but I wouldn't put a re-lapse into 'Normal Marten Behavior' past him.

In any case I'm looking forward to see how it turns out. The groundwork has been laid, but the future could be very un-Clair.  :claireface: [Turrible]


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ZoeB

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I think the heart you are looking for is present, but it is subtle and easy to miss.  There is great depth in the body language of both characters in the last few strips - personally, I think this is some of the best work Jeph has ever done
Some is so unsubtle, I can't believe others haven't commented on it. Just look at pupil size for goodness' sake.
Or maybe it takes someone who is/was mildly Aspergic so once had to consciously look for such cues rather than instinctively process them to notice.

Jeph is good. I thought he was laying it on a bit thick, but obviously not if so few people see it and appreciate it. He's good. Really good.
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Estron

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I was one of the early ones last night who saw both 2807 and 2808 last night.  And yet, I automatically start thinking about QC asround this time every evening and -- oh, yeah -- been there, seen that, saved the image.    :-(
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reicreature

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I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character.  I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.

She's snappier than Penelope. Claire's humor is more upbeat puns and prank-snark where Penelope is more dead-pan snark and curmudgeon grumble.
Claire's more expressive.

Also she has red-hair. Red hair.

Red hair is a deal maker.
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reicreature

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One thing more on the Claire and Marten relationship development is that she, more than the other interns has more of a friendship with Faye.
In fact, I think Faye figured that marten had a thing for Claire after the wedding arc and then invited Claire for hang-outs sans Marten establishing her deeper into Marten's inner circle.
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ZoeB

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I brought her my old B&W TV, which I never watched anyway.  I visited daily to make sure she was alright.  A few days later, I brought over some laundry - she had a washer/dryer, and I really didn't want to go to the laundromat. 

She made me spaghetti. 

My laundry basket never made it back to my house.  It just... felt right.  It was sudden, and surprising to both of us.  I let my lease go, and moved in. 

Two years later, we were married.  That was in 1986.  We've had issues, and ups and downs.  But we're still best friends.
Squee!
Pancakes...spaghetti... same diff.

(My AoA is from AS XVII BTW...)
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T

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I honestly wonder if Claire would have gotten the same reaction as a cis character.  I mean, her personality is basically Penelope with some neuroses added, and I don't remember Penelope being very popular ever.

She's snappier than Penelope. Claire's humor is more upbeat puns and prank-snark where Penelope is more dead-pan snark and curmudgeon grumble.
Claire's more expressive.

Also she has red-hair. Red hair.

Red hair is a deal maker.

Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.
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fire n ice

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I'm just not buyin' it. It truly pains me to say it, 'cause I've been reading this comic for YEARS, and I've loved Jeph's work, and I've bought QC stuff from him to support him,  but I think this might be a tipping point.  It feels like getting Marten into another relationship just for the sake of getting him into another relationship, and nothing more.  I love Jeph's work, but I'm having real trouble following this move.  Where's the heart behind it, where's the impetus?  I just...

I don't see it.

Me neither. Probably has to do with the fact that I don't really like Claire and it's, to be honest, hard for me to gather why everybody loves her so much.  Can't see where Marten has got his feelings from, just can't. But we're very alone, so I think we just missed something and/or have a very different perception, so I'm just going to see myself out until this arc pauses ;)

I registered just to say that I'm with you guys.  We are the Three Caballeros!

That said, it's pretty much exactly for the same reasons you guys said.

Although, I admit, I've seen this coming from way back when Marten found out her secret, I just haven't seen it develope in a way that seem... well... developed.  Which is probably because I feel very "meh" towards Claire in particular, but I digress.

I had no particular focus to this forum post, it seems.

I'm kind of in this group too.  There's just something doesn't "feel" right about it, but I can't identify what.  I know there has been a little buildup, so it's not that.  Perhaps it's that Marten seems rather out of character.  He's usually a little neurotic, a little uncertain.  This is a totally different Marten, just diving in and showing no sign of uncertainty or confusion.

Character growth?  Perhaps, it just seems rather sudden.

While I do agree on the somewhat suddenness of Marten's character development (not that I'm complaining), my wife and I had very similar beginnings to our relationship (down to her also being a redhead), so let me try to give you a different perspective.

We had been close friends for about 5 years, never really showed any romantic interest in each other (although there was attraction).  Then one day, it just kinda happened.  Couldn't tell you exactly what day it was (neither one of us can pin down the date we were officially dating), we were just all of a sudden spending most of our free time together.  Next thing you know, there's a ring on her finger, then a wedding, then a daughter.  Neither one of us planned this or asked each other out.  We both just decided on our own to just go with it and see what happened.

The point I'm trying to make is, love comes in different forms, and the feelings can be hard to detect (at least at first).  You just know you have this subtle urge to be around this person and learn everything you can about them.  As for us, we're not really romantic people.  But we DO both get to spend every day with our best friend for the rest of our lives, and we're both perfectly content with that.
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reicreature

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Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.

I don't see her as very neurotic save for her anxiety attack triggered by possible humiliation.
I guess it's that she's aware and her anxiety is controlled.
In this way she's probably less neurotic than Faye, Marigold or Dora...(I don't include Hanners because for the severity of Hanner's mental health issues, she's very high functioning).
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eschaton

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True love is hard work, but falling in love is super easy. Any little thing with any person can trigger it. Maybe that's what we've just witnessed. I'm a hopeless romantic and it's one of the things that made my wife fall for me in the first place.  Give Claireten a chance. They've got the easy part done, now comes the hard part of making it work.

I guess I disagree with you pretty strongly.  I didn't love any of my girlfriends, although I liked them just fine.  Hell, I didn't fall head over heels for my wife, I just slowly realized over a year plus of being together that there was no word to describe what I felt but love. 

That obsessive, butterflies in the stomach feeling you get about someone though?  That never led me to any good places, not even once.  As I said, when I was young, I would fall in love with female friends, then get the nice guy talk.  Or fall in love with women from online.  So I made it a rule not to consider my friends as romantic options, and to stop talking to girls who lived across the country online.  Even then, these feelings led me astray.  Every time I had that feeling, I had a hard time playing it cool after a successful few dates, and they'd stop talking to me.  In contrast, the girls I wasn't into so much to begin with I could play cool with, and actually date for a longer period. 

Actually it's funny, because right when I met my wife, there was another woman who I had been interested in, in the strong butterfly way, but I was convinced she didn't like me as more than a friend.  I ended up dating my wife instead, and a few months later, was hanging out with the girl, and realized she was actually crazy in love with me too.  That said, I knew that there was no reason to ever trust this feeling, that my relationship was going well, I cared about commitments, and I wasn't going to throw it all away for silly butterflies.

My understanding is that feeling, even when reciprocal, doesn't last more than a year or two.  So I'm not sure I missed anything important. 

Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.

Uhh...what is moe?  Is it some forum term? 
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Sig

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I never saw Hanners as a romantic possibility for anyone myself. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see her get to a point where she could have a healthy relationship but I just don't see that happening. Hell, most of the time I don't even see her as "Female" but more as a class of her own. She is Hanners.
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mustang6172

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What is Claire's favorite Toto song?
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Ustrello

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What is Claire's favorite Toto song?

What you did there, I see it.
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T

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Also Claire body is small and fragile, her body language often makes her seem fragile and vulnerable and her neuroses contribute to that. Recipe for moe.

I don't see her as very neurotic save for her anxiety attack triggered by possible humiliation.
I guess it's that she's aware and her anxiety is controlled.
In this way she's probably less neurotic than Faye, Marigold or Dora...(I don't include Hanners because for the severity of Hanner's mental health issues, she's very high functioning).

Yes, there are other neurotic characters but for example, Dora's neurosis don't make you feel like holding her and protecting her. You just want her to stop asking you where everything is and shoo away Swiper.
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vforvancouver

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One thing more on the Claire and Marten relationship development is that she, more than the other interns has more of a friendship with Faye.
In fact, I think Faye figured that marten had a thing for Claire after the wedding arc and then invited Claire for hang-outs sans Marten establishing her deeper into Marten's inner circle.

The way I read it is that Faye figured that Claire had a thing for Marten. She mentioned that she followed Marten as a baby duck, after all. Then Faye, being the good friend she is, observed that Marten and Claire seemed to be a good pair, and would make a nice couple. She encouraged that behaviour, not just at the bar, teasing Claire; she retired to "sleep" when Marten started to touch Claire's hair, after all.

Faye, more than any other character (except a certain redhead, I'm sure), wants Marten to be happy after everything that had happened to him. She saw a chance, and boom, here we are, at page 14 or 15, discussing relationships, pancakes, burgers, linguistics, and redheads.

Jeph Jacques, you magnificent bastard, see what you have achieved and rejoice in all your glory.
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—Wups. Did I heard you correctly?
—Who's telling the story?

Sig

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Oh, and while I did not Squee at this I did get a warm and fuzzy feeling in the cockles of my heart, maybe below the cockles
Maybe in the sub-cockle area, maybe in the liver
Maybe in the kidneys, maybe even in the colon, I don't know.

But seriously kids, Love, just like Shit, happens. Sometimes there is no explanation and sometimes it does not need one. The smile on Claire's face is reason enough.


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Sig

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What is Claire's favorite Toto song?

Wonderful question!
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