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[TheEvilDog]

Mantic Games started a new kickstarter campaign today, for a dungeon crawler called.....well the name is in the title. The game is a callback to the old dungeon crawling games like Heroquest and Warhammer Quest. At the moment the game has several skeletons and zombies as enemies, with an Elven Ranger, Dwarven Fighter and a Human Wizard and Barbarian making up the Adventurers. The intended goals will add new enemies and adventurers (in fact at the time of writing, an undead Dwarf King and Dwarven Revenants have been unlocked with a new Adventurer as the next goal).
Initial goal was $50,000, which they made well within the first half hour and the game is slated for release in August of next year.
I've had some good experience with Mantic so I'm definitely going to pledge to this.

[Neko_Ali]

I'm looking to get into this as well. I have a lot of Mantic stuff, and I'm quite happy with it all.

[TheEvilDog]

I'm already in for the Dungeon Master pledge and the Undead booster. Already looking forward to seeing what else they might bring in.

[GarandMarine]

I know the Mantic guys and I relatively like their products, but I'm done with KS till some of my other minis KS finally deliver...

[TheEvilDog]

Well in the past day, they've raised $205,000 and hit several goals (including legendary versions of the heroes and nearly double the number of minis in the main box).
While I do like the Undead (they're my main force in Kings of War), I'm hoping we can see some other enemy types like Orcs or Abyssal forces and maybe some alternative heroes. Ah, but the kickstarting is still young.

[GarandMarine]

Thought for the day: Does Mantic REALLY need a KS? Surely they're an established company by now. Why not just bring the product to market?

[Neko_Ali]

I really don't know how big they are. But using kickstarter means they can get funded for their projects up front, without having to go to the risk and extra expense of borrowing money for whatever their latest big project is. I've only seen them using KS when launching new, big projects. Like Deadzone, Mars Attacks, Dreadball Extreme and now Dungeon Saga. In between they release new products for their existing lines on their own dime. And besides that, KS allows  a company to gauge interest in their product. If they go a month and don't or barely make funding, they can figure this may not be something to do, or at least not do big time. However, that is not really a good plan for Mantic at this point. They've done so many games this way that they have to wonder how much is genuine interest in this product, and how much is just people willing to back Mantic no matter what they do. They win at Kickstarter either way, but will there be interest in the game after release?

[GarandMarine]

A good KS doesn't necessarily mean they win at it. Consider the many successful KS that have had fulfillment issues due to sheer cost of the various rewards they were handing out. There's been some excellent business journals discussing KS and why it can put you in a very negative business cycle. 

[TheEvilDog]

The problem is more about resources rather than how established they are. Mantic Games don't have production facilities like Games Workshop, which pretty much has it's own factories around the world. At the moment, Mantic are pretty much a few offices and a warehouse and that's it. They have to get a third party to do the production for them (and the cost of production molds is ridiculously high, we're talking $20,000).
Then we're getting into the points Neko_Ali has brought up, it gauges interest and how far they can go (hell, there was so much of an interest in Dreadball that they created a new KS just for an expansion). Taking a look at how much their previous KS's have taken in ($3.75 million) and the reputation they're garnering for themselves and you can see why Kickstarter is a viable tactic for what is still a small company.
Not to mention that for a company that has branched into a niche that Games Workshop has done away with, it's a much smarter idea for them to gauge which direction to go for.

[GarandMarine]

Molds cost far less then you think they do, even by the old 20,000 number, especially when scaled out. Also Mantic's a bigger operation then you seem to think it is, especially now that they've become a small multinational firm. I worked in this industry for little over a year up till last month and I have buddies who work at Mantic, I'm well aware of what's what and who's who. So let's look at the KS model. So let's assuming this KS is finishing at 250k, which gives us a nice round number of 4 million total to work with. That's good. Quite good even, so we account for X amount of that for producing the rewards, then Y amount for the backer swag. Now Mantic has a good rep, and they're good on their swag for KS backers, so there's usually a fair bit for the customer to gain from backing, this is where we get into a problem, specifically the issue that Reaper had where they made the pot too sweet. Did you notice Bones II came PDQ? From what I understand that's because they had bills to pay from Bones I, it can absolutely cause a death spiral, and it doesn't encourage sustainable income or growth. Another thought: Does a short term gain like a KS hurt your potential total market impact and long term revenue? I know I just said it, but thinking honestly... how often do you really see Mantic kits at your LGS? I've seen a copy of Dreadball, once, and that was IN Baltimore, where their US office is.

[Neko_Ali]

Around here, quite a bit actually. My usual store carries quite a bit across their ranges. I just picked up some scenery last weekend, and ordered a Deadzone army starter kit. There have a bunch of other Deadzone and Kings of War there as well. If I go up the road to the Hobby Town they have an entire 8 foot wall section packed with Mantic stuff.

[TheEvilDog]

Half the stuff my local now sells is Mantic. They only have a thin smattering of GW stuff (probably because they're an independent and one day a GW rep came in and demanded they stop selling Privateer Press stock....).
But yeah, Mantic is becoming fairly popular here.

[GarandMarine]

That's pretty shocking, I'm going to have to call one of their sales guys I drink beer with and congratulate him. Also EvilDog, not to say your LWS is full of shit, but I think they're full of shit. GW hasn't done belly to belly sales since Christ was a Corporal, and while their business practices leave something to be desired nine out of ten times, in my years of interaction with them I've NEVER heard of A. a personal sales rep coming into the store (speaking as a former sales guy for a major wargaming company, no one cares about any one's LGS enough to fly or drive someone out, even if you were located next door to the Marietta Facility when it was still there) B. Flat out demanding they remove other product lines. That's flat out nuts.

[TheEvilDog]

I was there when it happened, saw the rep coming in, who saw the PP stock and started blasting at the guy behind the counter and demanding he take the stock off the shelves. One of the other staff members went and brought the manager out and the rep started ripping into him. Manager just looked at him and said fine, he was finished with GW providing stock. The rep's face blanched and he muttered an apology but he was shown the door. Everyone in the shop gave the manager a standard ovation. Since then, they've only ever gotten a bare amount of stock. The rep supposedly has a reputation for bullying smaller stockists. The thing is, the manager got away with it because it's the only major stockist in about a 200 mile radius.

[GarandMarine]

Shit that's industry suicide even for Workshop.

[Neko_Ali]

Doesn't sound like GW policy from the story though. Sounds like a sales rep with a stick up and an overdone sense of importance getting a smack down he had coming.

[TheEvilDog]

Anyway, the KS is currently at $255k, with the Troll Zombie shaman unlocked. The $260k goal is a halfling thief hero. I'm guessing that leaves the Satyr hero, the Halfling Fighter and the Basilean Paladin and Sister heroes. I think there's a Salamander Hero, but that might be connected to the Satyr hero as one of the Forces of Nature tie-ins.
They've also added some extra add-ons, such as the Evil Dead add-on (3 Skeletons, 3 Zombies, an undead Dwarf revenant, a ghost and a troll zombie), and resin versions of the first 4 adventurers.

[TheEvilDog]

Halfling thief has been unlocked, the Basilean Paladin is the $275K goal.

[TheEvilDog]

So over the past couple of days, the following have been unlocked:
Basilean Paladin
Halfling Fighter
Dryad Druid
Warlords of Galahir Expansion (Which is focussing on Goblins and the Orcs in the forests of Galahir)
Human Cleric

Currently up are the Orc Morax which they look close to getting.
As well as that, Mantic have added a $1 pledge, which is for people looking to just get the add-ons rather than the Dungeon Master pack.

[TheEvilDog]

Last couple of days of the Kickstarter and moving on from the Orcs and Goblins, the quest is now venturing into the Abyssal dungeons. The second expansion is tentatively titled the Infernal Crypts and so far unlocked are the Lesser Abyssals (including Magi), Abyssal Warriors, the Succubi, Tormented Souls and the Molochs. Updated rules from the original Dwarf Kings Hold have been included.

The Kickstarter has also just funded the Adventurer's Companion, which will have a random dungeon generator (basically, the party enters a Dwarf Hold and the system will generate the dungeon). There is also a custom dungeon system that is a little more complicated, but ensures that the Party don't know what the Necromancer is going to throw at them, while the Necromancer player doesn't know exactly why the Party has entered his realm. The Companion will also expand on the background of the Mantica world as well as the races that live there. Also included are rules for creating your own characters with an extensive list of races and classes as well as abilities and skills depending on your race/class combination. And it's been included in the $100 pledge, as well as a $30 add-on version for people who have made the $1 pledge (There is a limited edition hardback book that will be given for free, but only for those pledges that spend more than $200, postage not included).

The current goal is now the Abyssal Hellhounds.

The heroes unlocked (besides the first 4) now include: A Basilean Paladin and Cleric, a female Wizard, Halfling Thief and Fighter, Salamander Fighter, Dryad Druid, Naiad Demonhunter, Witch and Dwarf Engineer.
Enemies include: Elven Banshee, Zombie Troll Shaman, Undead Dwarven King, Orc Warlord, and the possibility of an Abyssal warlord of some kind if they get the Hellhounds funded.

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In other news, chatter from Ronnie Renton and some surveys seem to indicate a second Deadzone Kickstarter might be taking place during the winter. This one might focus on the Z'zor, Corporation Marines and Veer-myn as well as expanding on the options available to the first six factions.