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What's next on our agenda?

Angus and Faye: The Quickening
- 46 (33.3%)
Dora Tells Her Parents (To Predictable Results)
- 10 (7.2%)
The Library Implosion: Emily Finds Out!
- 19 (13.8%)
Moms Meet!
- 8 (5.8%)
Momo and May - The Odd Couple Revisited!
- 12 (8.7%)
Hanners FREAKS OUT!
- 7 (5.1%)
Pintsize!
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Love and Pancakes!
- 7 (5.1%)
Waffles and Spathe Ham!
- 1 (0.7%)
...Wait, who IS that blue guy lying on the ground?
- 11 (8%)
CLINTONSPOLSION!
- 10 (7.2%)

Total Members Voted: 127


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Author Topic: WCDT: 2811-2815 (13-17 October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 159196 times)

Indicible

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Holy nutballs! It's an eruption! Fire and brimstone in Faye's pants!
It's quite an eruption in general in the comics, these last days. When you think the explosions are over another one rocks your world.
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Rghfrgl

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Faye is going to want a shoulder to cry on; will Claire be willing to share?

 I still think Claire's safe from the jealousy monster. Faye helped them get together and she probably knows that. Without her nudging it'd be another 500 strips for them to become a couple. All she'd need to do to keep the Marten option open was, well nothing.

 She might have even helped them specifically so Marten wouldn't get any ideas if she and Angus broke up.
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NilsO

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Faye might or might not break up with Angus. Either way, she is going to meet the Tequila Monster soon. Dora boss might fire her for being drunk at work, while Dora friend must try to help her. She might seek comfort with Sven. She will cry a lot. There will be dark times ahead.

Marten, Dora, and Hanners have a tough job ahead of them to help Faye through this.

kerky

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Then again, maybe it's a case of parking herself in academia to allow time to make transphobia be a bit less of a problem for her, as well as give herself a more direct shot at, say, Gus's job.
I think by now any episode of Transphobia would be completely out of canon and character, at least from our fellow "permanent" cast. Also, as of now, only Emily, Marten, possibly Tai and Claire´s family seem to know, and nobody else has made any sort of remark that makes me think they even suspect or know she is trans, even if that does not completely rule out some character making an unaproppriate comment, as stated before on the forum,  This, and the way she is depicted in the comic makes me believe her "passing" is next to perfect. Now, I remember there was a post somewhere in the forum about the change of gender markers and names in ID in the different states, but I can´t seem to find it right now and I don´t remember what the situation is in Massachusets. Maybe she has already obtained said change in her ID and birth certificate, maybe not, so the issue may only come up if / when applying for a new job and/or dealing with the administration, or not at all.
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Lubricus

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Faye might or might not break up with Angus. Either way, she is going to meet the Tequila Monster soon. Dora boss might fire her for being drunk at work, while Dora friend must try to help her. She might seek comfort with Sven. She will cry a lot. There will be dark times ahead.

Marten, Dora, and Hanners have a tough job ahead of them to help Faye through this.

I just have to say that your avatar makes this post go from good to great!
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BenRG

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My guess is that this week will be mostly Faye and Angus discussing their next move. They will come to at least a preliminary agreement but, after Angus leaves, Sven will turn up to try again. This will remind Faye that she does have alternate options on the table. Sven, of course, will not know how vulnerable Faye is at that point and may push her too hard, earning either a make-out or a broken nose (or possibly both, as his ex-sister is present).

I can see there being a strip next week where Faye sees Marten and Claire and she rips into them. She'll rage at them, going on about how the sweetness and light hides huge, jagged edges that shred your heart and then storms off, leaving two surprised people behind.
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Half Empty Coffee Cup

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Holy nutballs! It's an eruption! Fire and brimstone in Faye's pants!
It's quite an eruption in general in the comics, these last days. When you think the explosions are over another one rocks your world.
You haven't come down with the Butts Disease, have you?  :mrgreen:
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SubaruStephen

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Or we'll get yet another subplot with further complications. The anthroboyfriend that Hannerdad sent to Hannelore (that Hannelore returned) will be commandeered by Station, who drops in to visit/declare his love for Hannelore.

(I typed that with tongue firmly in cheek, but now that I think about it, I could nearly see this happening)

She's willing to be hugged by May, maybe an AI boyfriend would be just the thing for her.

Perhaps Station scores a chassis and some vacation time on Earth...
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kerky

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Perhaps Station scores a chassis and some vacation time on Earth...

Who takes care of the station meanwhile?
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snubnose

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Poooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor Faye !!!!!!!!!!!!  :-\
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Sven's done some shitty things, but do you really think "take advantage of a drunk person" is a low he'd sink to?

Yes.

Perhaps Station scores a chassis and some vacation time on Earth...

One is available if it hasn't been scrapped or jettisoned out of an airlock already.....
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Thrillho

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Thanks for finding that old comic, now I don't feel like my irritation at Sven is only 50% justified.

By the way, the pace this comic went at used to be borderline glacial, and in real time terms this comic covers a month or so sometimes in a year at a time, but lately Jeph has ratcheted up the pace something fierce. There has been an explosion of occurrences, and I like it.
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BenRG

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Okay, a little bit more from my last prediction (and this time a happy/melancholy one). At the end of their discussion (Thursday's strip), Angus pulls out a promise ring and tells Faye that he knows the months ahead are going to be tough but that he wants them to be together. Faye is flabbergasted and, after Angus slips on the promise ring, the two kiss in the middle of CoD. Dora is looking past them with a shocked expression. Last panel is Sven watching the Angus/Faye PDA looking like someone's cut out his heart with an apple corer.

Friday's strip is Sven fleeing. In panel 2, he passes Steve and Cossette making out on a bench. In panel 3, he passes Dale and Marigold walking down the street, hand-in-hand. The last panel is him on his couch, either covering his face with his hands or playing his guitar with a fierce expression of concentration on his face.

Next week would be back to Marten and Claire. I've already put up my ideas for the first two strips (Claire coming out in a pretty dress and going to CoD with Marten). In this version, there would be no library party as it's the weekend. Instead, after spending some time walking around town together, they go to The Secret Bakery for lunch where, much to Martin's shock, Veronica is behind the counter. The rest of the week will basically be Jim and Veronica teasing Marten and Claire.

[edit]
To me, any crisis for Faye isn't going to happen until after Angus has left for the big city. A couple of weeks of only seeing him two days in seven at best and watching those in relationships being all lovey-dovey all the time puts pressure on her. Then Sven releases a new record which is very overtly all about his feelings for her and how utterly destroyed he was seeing her accept Angus's ring. Everyone agrees that it is the best piece Sven has ever composed and it is about her. He even uses the pet name for her that he only ever used when they were having sex in a dedication on the liner notes.

It puts her under a lot of pressure; it's a big temptation.

[edit 2]
It could also be the final straw for Dora. If Faye confides in her (including the pet name thing) I could see her going ballistic over what she perceives as emotional blackmail. She goes storming over to her brother's house, attacks him and tells him never to attempt to contact her or Faye, come into Coffee of Doom or come anywhere near them for any reason whatsoever ever again.
« Last Edit: 13 Oct 2014, 04:29 by BenRG »
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Akima

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I wonder if Faye is recalling the words of (I think) John Lennon: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans," and realising that it happens while you're carefully not making other plans too. She's been drifting as much as Marten has.
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BenRG

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author=SubaruStephen link=topic=30209.msg1274983#msg1274983 date=1413184535]
Perhaps Station scores a chassis and some vacation time on Earth...

One is available if it hasn't been scrapped or jettisoned out of an airlock already.....

"Mad scientist laugh"? I'm starting to think that Hannelore gets that part of her subconscious from her father rather than her mother!
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Euthemes

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Long-distance relationship for Angus and Faye. It's the only viable solution, at least short-run. Angus cannot turn down this opportunity, he will never forgive himself. Plus, were he to stay, he would lose Faye's respect. I don't see Faye going with him or the basic mechanism of the comic would be destroyed. She'd better stay away from poisonous venomous Sven though.
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valkygrrl

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One thing I'm wondering, too... If Claire is studying library science at a post graduate level... I'm wondering just how high she's aiming. Librarian of Congress, maybe?
They don't hire women like her. In this universe, anyway. It is not a safe space, something that only time will change.

https://www.aclu.org/lgbt-rights_hiv-aids/schroer-v-library-congress-case-profile


Clearly this is a case of naked male privilege with a single job. They found someone who preformed gender:man for half a century and did it so perfectly that they were able to thrive in the hyper-masculine environment of the green berets as evidenced by a lofty rank and then withdrew the offer when the gender performance was no longer part of the package.   And shame on them for caring about such a minor thing.

It doesn't have anything to do with Claire though. Sure, a young woman with a master's in library science isn't going to get that level of job right out of the door while the ink on her diploma is still wet but when you look at the type of job openings they have. http://www.loc.gov/hr/employment/index.php?action=cMain.showJobs Clarie could could focus herself in the type of acquisitions or research that would qualify her. So long as she isn't seeking international terrorism, a subject she's yet to display interest in and one they clearly want a man for, she could be hired to work there.

Honestly for two people with such different life paths it is hard to see why you would even compare them. But hey, props for pointing out how the appearance of being a manly man can get people job offers and not behaving as one can cost them. The patriarchy sure sucks.
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Zebediah

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One thing I'm wondering, too... If Claire is studying library science at a post graduate level... I'm wondering just how high she's aiming. Librarian of Congress, maybe?
They don't hire women like her. In this universe, anyway. It is not a safe space, something that only time will change.

https://www.aclu.org/lgbt-rights_hiv-aids/schroer-v-library-congress-case-profile


Clearly this is a case of naked male privilege with a single job. They found someone who preformed gender:man for half a century and did it so perfectly that they were able to thrive in the hyper-masculine environment of the green berets as evidenced by a lofty rank and then withdrew the offer when the gender performance was no longer part of the package.   And shame on them for caring about such a minor thing.

It should be noted that the Librarian of Congress is an 85-year-old Reagan appointee. The environment at the Library of Congress will change when the management changes.
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aphanisis81

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Sven's done some shitty things, but do you really think "take advantage of a drunk person" is a low he'd sink to?

Yes.

Perhaps Station scores a chassis and some vacation time on Earth...

One is available if it hasn't been scrapped or jettisoned out of an airlock already.....

The Gina Riversmith comic looks more to me like "Two people got tipsy at a show and decided to fuck" than any sort of coercion or taking advantage of.
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BenRG

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It should be noted that the Librarian of Congress is an 85-year-old Reagan appointee. The environment at the Library of Congress will change when the management changes.

Don't underestimate the power of subordinates telling the new incumbent: "This is the way it has always been done and it wouldn't work any other way!" Organisational change can be held up indefinitely that way!
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swapna

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While there are certainly instances of Sven being shitty, Dora cutting Sven out of her life has never really made sense to me. He has counseled her and helped her feel better. Sven let Dora live with him after she and Marten broke up. He seems like a pretty good brother who supports his sister.

Additionally, Sven is not the bad guy he's made out to be around these parts. He tried to offer Marten insight so Marten and Dora could become a better couple. He also took Hannelore on a pretend date. Faye even started being nice to him

To get back to Dora, there has been at least one instance where Dora assumed the worst about Sven without being right ("Dora, it's been MONTHS since I hooked up with ANYBODY. That's not who I am anymore. Which you'd know, if you ever bothered to ask.") Dora hasn't seen Sven in the comic, on screen, since 2194. I don't think it would be a reach to guess that Dora hasn't talked to Sven in a while and has never bothered to consider his feelings.


You hit the nail right on the head - Sven's not perfect and the 'I love you Faye'-Arc makes him a lot more immature than he has before, but he's a good brother. It's Dora who'll forbid him to have romantic relations with her employees (even though it's none of her business who Raven, Faye or Sven sleep with), will physically assault him when he hurt Faye and he still puts up with her.
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aphanisis81

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While there are certainly instances of Sven being shitty, Dora cutting Sven out of her life has never really made sense to me. He has counseled her and helped her feel better. Sven let Dora live with him after she and Marten broke up. He seems like a pretty good brother who supports his sister.

Additionally, Sven is not the bad guy he's made out to be around these parts. He tried to offer Marten insight so Marten and Dora could become a better couple. He also took Hannelore on a pretend date. Faye even started being nice to him

To get back to Dora, there has been at least one instance where Dora assumed the worst about Sven without being right ("Dora, it's been MONTHS since I hooked up with ANYBODY. That's not who I am anymore. Which you'd know, if you ever bothered to ask.") Dora hasn't seen Sven in the comic, on screen, since 2194. I don't think it would be a reach to guess that Dora hasn't talked to Sven in a while and has never bothered to consider his feelings.


You hit the nail right on the head - Sven's not perfect and the 'I love you Faye'-Arc makes him a lot more immature than he has before, but he's a good brother. It's Dora who'll forbid him to have romantic relations with her employees (even though it's none of her business who Raven, Faye or Sven sleep with), will physically assault him when he hurt Faye and he still puts up with her.

Don't forget how he helped Wil and Penelope - perhaps the longest-standing couple in QC - get together. I agree, Sven has done a few shitty things, but cheating on Faye is the only one that's even remotely the business of the main cast. And even that is a bit of a gray area, since they were technically FWB. Yes, Faye had made it clear that she'd bail if he fucked anyone else, but that doesn't make them a couple; that's just setting terms for the FWB arrangement.
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McFace

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Don't forget how he helped Wil and Penelope - perhaps the longest-standing couple in QC - get together. I agree, Sven has done a few shitty things, but cheating on Faye is the only one that's even remotely the business of the main cast. And even that is a bit of a gray area, since they were technically FWB. Yes, Faye had made it clear that she'd bail if he fucked anyone else, but that doesn't make them a couple; that's just setting terms for the FWB arrangement.

I agree with this to a point. I don't think it was a simple as just FWB. Maybe if that had occurred only after they had sex the first couple of times, but I do think that Faye and Sven might have actually ended up in a relationship if he hadn't slept around. Which is why it exploded in the manner that it did.

But yes, it is still a bit of a grey area.
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plusorminus

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I wonder if Faye is recalling the words of (I think) John Lennon: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans," and realising that it happens while you're carefully not making other plans too. She's been drifting as much as Marten has.

I love your avatar! I miss that show.

To your Faye point, I'm not sure that it's fair to say she's drifting. She's a person who saw her dad blow his brains out in front of her and spent much of the immediate time after that and school bailing when things threatened to get too real for her. CoD, Marten and their group of friends represents the first time she felt safe in putting down roots, and since Jeph has said that as of strip 1400, anywhere from six months to two years has passed. She had just started undergoing therapy and hadn't even been seeing Angus at that point. And 1400 was after the Sven situation self-destructed, which may have shaken her confidence. In comic age, she's in her early 20s. Being assistant manager at a coffeeshop where she has made great friends is not the worst thing in the world for her right now. I'm sure she'll have ambitions to branch out at some point, but I don't think she's been drifting at all.

And I'm a little perplexed at those who are trying to make Sven out as some sort of saint. No, he's not a completely reprehensible human being, but lest we forget, he tried to use Marten as a shield to get away from an ex, more or less told Penny he would bang her IF she weren't with Wil, not IF he weren't already with Faye, broke their agreement and had to be shamed by his intern into telling her, and was an ass to Faye at the sledding party when she was there with Angus minding her own business. No, that doesn't give Dora permission to be self-righteous, but this isn't Gandhi we're talking about.
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BenRG

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody. He literally doesn't care about anyone's feelings except his own. He and he alone matters; he'd be shocked if he was told that he hurt someone (and even offended at the implication that he acted in bad faith towards them) but he wouldn't change his ways because... hey... he wants something, why shouldn't he get it?

The only thing that seems to limit him is that he has a limited appetite for pain (including the pain you get from being told off by a forceful personality). So, he'll actively try to anticipate and avoid actions that will get Dora and Lydia angry at him. That said, it's still essentially selfish - he wants to avoid dealing with their anger because it causes him trouble; he doesn't really seem to understand why those behaviours make them angry only that they do.

In other words, both Dora and Sven have serious emotional/behavioural issues. Their parents really have a lot to answer for.
« Last Edit: 13 Oct 2014, 06:13 by BenRG »
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aphanisis81

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I wonder if Faye is recalling the words of (I think) John Lennon: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans," and realising that it happens while you're carefully not making other plans too. She's been drifting as much as Marten has.

I love your avatar! I miss that show.

To your Faye point, I'm not sure that it's fair to say she's drifting. She's a person who saw her dad blow his brains out in front of her and spent much of the immediate time after that and school bailing when things threatened to get too real for her. CoD, Marten and their group of friends represents the first time she felt safe in putting down roots, and since Jeph has said that as of strip 1400, anywhere from six months to two years has passed. She had just started undergoing therapy and hadn't even been seeing Angus at that point. And 1400 was after the Sven situation self-destructed, which may have shaken her confidence. In comic age, she's in her early 20s. Being assistant manager at a coffeeshop where she has made great friends is not the worst thing in the world for her right now. I'm sure she'll have ambitions to branch out at some point, but I don't think she's been drifting at all.

And I'm a little perplexed at those who are trying to make Sven out as some sort of saint. No, he's not a completely reprehensible human being, but lest we forget, he tried to use Marten as a shield to get away from an ex, more or less told Penny he would bang her IF she weren't with Wil, not IF he weren't already with Faye, broke their agreement and had to be shamed by his intern into telling her, and was an ass to Faye at the sledding party when she was there with Angus minding her own business. No, that doesn't give Dora permission to be self-righteous, but this isn't Gandhi we're talking about.

No, he's certainly not a saint. No one in the cast is. I think what he said to Penny about what he'd want to do if Wil didn't "have dibs" was kind of in good fun, and to be fair, Sven and Faye didn't HAVE an agreement. I realize it's a technicality, and I'm not trying to defend him, but I assume he's telling the truth when he says "I never said I wouldn't fuck anyone else."

Sledding party, sure, douchey.

Rereading the Marten-as-shield arc is strange. It's like a completely different comic. That storyline just wouldn't happen now, I don't think. At any rate, I think Faye comes out looking the worst in that one.

Anyway, I'm not saying Sven is an awesome, blameless guy or anything, but I think his whole Alpha Indie Manwhore identity brings him more scorn than he really deserves.
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Thrillho

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody.

That drunk fucking linked earlier in the thread suggests otherwise.
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aphanisis81

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody. He literally doesn't care about anyone's feelings except his own. He and he alone matters; he'd be shocked if he was told that he hurt someone (and even offended at the implication that he acted in bad faith towards them) but he wouldn't change his ways because... hey... he wants something, why shouldn't he get it?

In other words, both Dora and Sven have serious emotional/behavioural issues. Their parents really have a lot to answer for.

I agree that Sven isn't bad, but what you go on to describe him as is basically the standard definition  of a sociopath...
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aphanisis81

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody.

That drunk fucking linked earlier in the thread suggests otherwise.

Because of the Faye issue or because he's, as others have suggested, taking advantage of a drunk woman?
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plusorminus

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No, he's certainly not a saint. No one in the cast is. I think what he said to Penny about what he'd want to do if Wil didn't "have dibs" was kind of in good fun, and to be fair, Sven and Faye didn't HAVE an agreement. I realize it's a technicality, and I'm not trying to defend him, but I assume he's telling the truth when he says "I never said I wouldn't fuck anyone else."

Sledding party, sure, douchey.

Rereading the Marten-as-shield arc is strange. It's like a completely different comic. That storyline just wouldn't happen now, I don't think. At any rate, I think Faye comes out looking the worst in that one.

Anyway, I'm not saying Sven is an awesome, blameless guy or anything, but I think his whole Alpha Indie Manwhore identity brings him more scorn than he really deserves.

I hear you on that. And I get that people like who they like in this comic, and that's cool. I'm a huge fan of Dora. I'm not super-big on Sven. I just find it weird that when people bring up his manwhorish ways, it spins off into the few times he didn't act like a prick. But with Dora, no one mentions how she kept Marigold's room from being declared a biohazard and directly introduced Hanners and Marigold to their respective BFFs, or how despite the rockiness from their first meeting, she gave Cosette a job at the coffee shop when she needed it, or how she didn't put up much of a fuss when Marten refused to countenance living in an apartment sans Faye, or the fact that she allows Jim to dump a kid who doesn't care for her much at her place of business when it suits.

No, no one in this comic is a saint, but I just get weirded out by the implicit Dora-hate sometimes. I'll get over it.

At any rate, as much as I like Dora, when I ran across that comic I referenced in a post I made upthread, I was literally shocked. I can't wrap my head around Dora being caring-sister one moment and then the next it's all "Welp! Guess I don't have a brother anymore!" Dora can be irrational at times, but that's on another level. Not that it means much, but she is in therapy and has a girlfriend who is crazy about her and whose motives Dora does not have to doubt. If anything, she should be more mellow, not all "RAWR!"

Which makes me think that something happened off-screen. We see Cosette telling Dora about what happened, and the next is Dora striding into CoD "brother-free," which suggests that in the intervening time, she confronted Sven and they argued and possibly Sven said some stuff that Dora can't forgive or forget. This could impact directly on Faye-Angus, because the "I don't have a brother" thing is a bomb yet to be exploded and I can't imagine Faye, having to deal with all she has to deal with right now, taking too kindly to that.
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BenRG

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Which makes me think that something happened off-screen. We see Cosette telling Dora about what happened, and the next is Dora striding into CoD "brother-free," which suggests that in the intervening time, she confronted Sven and they argued and possibly Sven said some stuff that Dora can't forgive or forget. This could impact directly on Faye-Angus, because the "I don't have a brother" thing is a bomb yet to be exploded and I can't imagine Faye, having to deal with all she has to deal with right now, taking too kindly to that.

This my theory too. Knowing Sven he probably counter-argued in the worst possible ways; everything he said was 'me, me, me, I, me' and Faye was only mentioned in the context of someone whose presence would give him comfort and pleasure; there was no mention as to what Faye would get out of this. That would explain Dora's specific description of him as being 'toxic'.
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Thrillho

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody.

That drunk fucking linked earlier in the thread suggests otherwise.

Because of the Faye issue or because he's, as others have suggested, taking advantage of a drunk woman?

The latter. If he was equally drunk which still isn't necessarily acceptable, he certain had a remarkably lucid thought pattern for a drunk man.
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kerky

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I agree that Sven isn't bad, but what you go on to describe him as is basically the standard definition  of a sociopath...
And I think he's spot on. The other characters are no angels either, and all have issues of some kind, but noone will ever get close to the level of selfishness and pricklyness (is there such a term anyways?) Sven has exhibited.

I think as of now he is in QC to be hated by the audience.  (Now playing: Behind Blue Eyes by The Who)
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aphanisis81

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I agree that Sven isn't bad, but what you go on to describe him as is basically the standard definition  of a sociopath...
And I think he's spot on. The other characters are no angels either, and all have issues of some kind, but noone will ever get close to the level of selfishness and pricklyness (is there such a term anyways?) Sven has exhibited.

I think as of now he is in QC to be hated by the audience.  (Now playing: Behind Blue Eyes by The Who)

I think it's worth noting that, as a secondary character, he's mostly brought in to create plot developments (read: drama), and to be someone for the main cast to react to. He's not just Sven: He's Dora's Brother and Faye's Ex-Hookup. I think that makes it easier to see him SOLELY as those things. If Marten cheated on someone, we'd probably sympathize, because he's a much more rounded character with whom we've spent time in a variety of contexts.
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aphanisis81

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody.

That drunk fucking linked earlier in the thread suggests otherwise.

Because of the Faye issue or because he's, as others have suggested, taking advantage of a drunk woman?

The latter. If he was equally drunk which still isn't necessarily acceptable, he certain had a remarkably lucid thought pattern for a drunk man.

I don't think there's any indication that they're anything more than buzzed, and there's certainly no indication that Sven is taking advantage or being pushy. In fact, I don't see any way to read Gina's expression in the first panel as anything other than "I am SO gonna fuck this guy."

I fully understand the discourse about consent and the muddling role that alcohol plays in it, but are we realistically going to say that two adults can't meet in a bar, have a few drinks, and then go have sex, without it being considered sexual assault? That seems hysterical to me.
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eschaton

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Not necessarily so. Jeph doesn't do static characters. Faye already developed past the worst of her social anxieties, an honest try at a long distance relationship might even be what she needs to get past her abandonment issues.

I think Faye believes she can deal with a LTR, but when push comes to shove, it's not going to work.  She's going to start worrying about Angus meeting all kinds of hot hipster girls in NYC and leaving her.  Then she's going to feel guilty about worrying about it, which turn to self-loathing - wondering why she's doing so bad a the whole long-distance thing.  And once she starts down that road, she could easily jump to just thinking she was a bad person/shitty girlfriend - and what do shitty girlfriends do?

To be honest though, I think it won't work out more for meta/story purposes than anything.  At least one of the dateable (i.e., non Hanners) human main characters needs to be single at any given time for story purposes.  And the re-introduction of Sven (who seems to have essentially lost any of the budding emotional growth/self awareness he began showing after screwing things up with Faye initially) suggests there is some drama purpose to him being in the strip again. 

Okay, a little bit more from my last prediction (and this time a happy/melancholy one). At the end of their discussion (Thursday's strip), Angus pulls out a promise ring and tells Faye that he knows the months ahead are going to be tough but that he wants them to be together. Faye is flabbergasted and, after Angus slips on the promise ring, the two kiss in the middle of CoD. Dora is looking past them with a shocked expression. Last panel is Sven watching the Angus/Faye PDA looking like someone's cut out his heart with an apple corer.

I know you've posted about this before, but this just seems so insane to me.  People with college degrees just don't get married very frequently in their early 20s any longer.  Hell, I felt in the young side for my circle of friends getting married at age 29 - I only knew one or two people who got married younger than me.  I don't think that would be anywhere near on the mind of Angus, and it's exactly the wrong thing to do with Faye, IMHO. 

And I'm a little perplexed at those who are trying to make Sven out as some sort of saint. No, he's not a completely reprehensible human being, but lest we forget, he tried to use Marten as a shield to get away from an ex, more or less told Penny he would bang her IF she weren't with Wil, not IF he weren't already with Faye, broke their agreement and had to be shamed by his intern into telling her, and was an ass to Faye at the sledding party when she was there with Angus minding her own business. No, that doesn't give Dora permission to be self-righteous, but this isn't Gandhi we're talking about.

Broadly agreed.  Sven is a very flawed individual, and is capable of great havoc even when he has the best intentions. 

That said, while I feel fairly sure more Faye/Sven drama is in the cards, I don't know what will happen exactly.  People seem to be assuming that Sven will be the aggressor and Faye the hapless victim.  But I could just as easily see a situation (after months of tension built) where Faye made a (drunken) pass at Sven, who (following a weekend cliffhanger) decided to wise up for once and turn her down. 

The latter. If he was equally drunk which still isn't necessarily acceptable, he certain had a remarkably lucid thought pattern for a drunk man.

The point of the internal monologue was to show how fucked-up his own mental processes are.  That he just saw everything that was happening as something he was watching, rather than of his own volition.  He doesn't take responsibility for his actions.

More broadly speaking, while I never had an active enough sex life when I was unattached to count, I'm pretty sure that most men have at least one mutually tipsy encounter with a woman in their lives.  That doesn't make it date rape.  And as for Sven personally, the comic seems to intimate he can charm the pants (literally) off nearly any woman stone-cold sober.  The alcohol was needed to make his judgement questionable, not hers. 
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swapna

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody.

That drunk fucking linked earlier in the thread suggests otherwise.

Because of the Faye issue or because he's, as others have suggested, taking advantage of a drunk woman?

The latter. If he was equally drunk which still isn't necessarily acceptable, he certain had a remarkably lucid thought pattern for a drunk man.

I don't think there's any indication that they're anything more than buzzed, and there's certainly no indication that Sven is taking advantage or being pushy. In fact, I don't see any way to read Gina's expression in the first panel as anything other than "I am SO gonna fuck this guy."

I fully understand the discourse about consent and the muddling role that alcohol plays in it, but are we realistically going to say that two adults can't meet in a bar, have a few drinks, and then go have sex, without it being considered sexual assault? That seems hysterical to me.

I'm with aphanisis81 on that one - look at how they interact. She takes the initiative, and his thoughts/body language indicate that he's more passive than usual, because he's thinking of Faye. Not saying that his behaviour is great, on the contrary, but sexual assault? Really? :psyduck:
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aphanisis81

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It deserves repeating: Sven isn't bad, he's just self-absorbed almost to the point of parody.

That drunk fucking linked earlier in the thread suggests otherwise.

Because of the Faye issue or because he's, as others have suggested, taking advantage of a drunk woman?

The latter. If he was equally drunk which still isn't necessarily acceptable, he certain had a remarkably lucid thought pattern for a drunk man.

I don't think there's any indication that they're anything more than buzzed, and there's certainly no indication that Sven is taking advantage or being pushy. In fact, I don't see any way to read Gina's expression in the first panel as anything other than "I am SO gonna fuck this guy."

I fully understand the discourse about consent and the muddling role that alcohol plays in it, but are we realistically going to say that two adults can't meet in a bar, have a few drinks, and then go have sex, without it being considered sexual assault? That seems hysterical to me.

I'm with aphanisis81 on that one - look at how they interact. She takes the initiative, and his thoughts/body language indicate that he's more passive than usual, because he's thinking of Faye. Not saying that his behaviour is great, on the contrary, but sexual assault? Really? :psyduck:

To be fair, I don't know if Gareth is equating "taking advantage" with "sexual assault." But it does seem like splitting hairs to say, in this case, that there's a big difference. If the issue is that booze interfered with the legitimacy of her consent, then there's really no difference at all.
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Method of Madness

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They both have drunk bubbles, and his mind is clearly elsewhere. I can't see how that's "taking advantage of someone" on his part.
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Thrillho

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In fairness I didn't say sexual assault, or even necessarily 'taking advantage'... I was merely indicating that, were you sober and having sex with someone who was drunk, that would make you a bad person, which is also, in fairness, not necessarily the case.
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Method of Madness

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The link was posted to my "would Sven take advantage of a drunk person" question.
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Thrillho

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I know. But I am being pedantic.
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MooskiNet

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TRVA123

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yeah, I think Sven (and Dora and Faye) get unreasonably villianized by people.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Sven is a model person, but I also don't think we should cast him as the villian of the comic. If for no other reason than Jeph is a more sophisticate writer than that.

Lets look at Sven's relationship with Dora. When they were children it was rocky due to sibling rivalry, as they got older they reached terms that they could associate by. That is why Sven goes to Dora's coffee shop and not to one of the other hundreds of coffee shops in that town. Sven also doesn't set out to seduce any of Dora's employees, even when Raven is literally throwing herself at him. Sven hooks up with Faye one they become friends on their own terms. He has a relationship with Faye that is no longer solely  "she is an employee of my sister". In short, Sven did respect Dora's "no sex with my employees" boundary until he got to a point in his relationship with Faye where that boundary would not reasonably apply. *note, Sven also did not make the first move with Faye.
When Dora is having trouble with Marten, Sven helps Marten out with some insight. Sven lets Dora crash at his place after the breakup and helps her move when she gets a new place.

In short, I would say that, to the best of his ability, Sven is being a good and supportive brother to Dora. From that perspective, Dora cutting Sven out of her life seems an overreaction.

I honestly think Dora deciding to cut Sven out of her life is an extension of the control issues Dora has. Sven isn't respecting the limits that she tries to place on his behavior, (like when he takes Hanners on a date) and he is developing in ways that challenge her mental image of him (he hasn't hooked up with anyone in months). She can no longer control him and she can't predict his behavior, so she doesn't want to associate with him.

Now this is an incredibly harsh take on her cutting him out of her life. I realize that I am not giving Dora very much benefit of the doubt. But choosing to cut your brother out of your life is incredibly harsh, and I think that to do that Dora would have to have an incredibly harsh (yet justified in her subconscious) reason for it.

A more charitable explanation might be that Dora is merely trying to cut any influence from her life that gives her unneeded stress, and Sven's drama with Faye is certainly unneeded stress for Dora.

but that means that Dora would end a relationship with a family member to avoid stress.
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From that bit of dialogue we can also guess she doesn't run on iOS or Windows.
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Neko_Ali

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Sometimes you do have to cut family for your life. It's not always a bad thing. I had to walk away from my family and the toxic relationship with my father, and it still deeply affects me 17 years later. It probably always will. Sven is no angel, and neither is Dora. This is something they are both aware of and trying to help themselves with their mental problems, but that won't make them perfect. They are in fact, both flawed human beings trying to make their own way in the world, just like everyone else. Sven is self absorbed to the point where he's hurtful to others around him without meaning to be. Dora is controlling and passes the blame for her faults onto other people. Sven happens to be one of the ones she's spent a life time both stressing over and blaming for things. To her own mind, what Dora is doing is making sense. She sees Sven as a source of stress in her life, so she's trying to eliminate it. I think she'll find that it won't work though, and eventually there will be a reconciliation. Saying how horrible either Sven or Dora are isn't  fair. Neither are mustache twirling villains out to ruin the lives of other people. Just confused, messed up people dealing with their own issues. Sometimes in bad ways.
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plusorminus

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Sometimes you do have to cut family for your life. It's not always a bad thing. I had to walk away from my family and the toxic relationship with my father, and it still deeply affects me 17 years later. It probably always will. Sven is no angel, and neither is Dora. This is something they are both aware of and trying to help themselves with their mental problems, but that won't make them perfect. They are in fact, both flawed human beings trying to make their own way in the world, just like everyone else. Sven is self absorbed to the point where he's hurtful to others around him without meaning to be. Dora is controlling and passes the blame for her faults onto other people. Sven happens to be one of the ones she's spent a life time both stressing over and blaming for things. To her own mind, what Dora is doing is making sense. She sees Sven as a source of stress in her life, so she's trying to eliminate it. I think she'll find that it won't work though, and eventually there will be a reconciliation. Saying how horrible either Sven or Dora are isn't  fair. Neither are mustache twirling villains out to ruin the lives of other people. Just confused, messed up people dealing with their own issues. Sometimes in bad ways.

I completely agree with all of the above. I've also had a similar situation and my twin brother was the "Sven" in our family so maybe that is why I identify and sympathize with Dora so much.

My only point in bringing it up in the first place is that the last meaningful Dora-Sven interaction we got onscreen, they were bonding and wishing each other happiness. I will say that it is true that Sven has been nothing but supportive to Dora during her issues with Marten both before they got together, during the relationship, and after the breakup. That's why I personally find her reaction, seemingly apropos to nothing, so extreme.

Leading to my supposition that after hearing the news, she confronted Sven and we'll get more details of that confrontation via flashback. I think Dora likes Cosette fine, but I can't imagine her thinking "Well, on the strength of this third-hand information, I'm going to make a change that will create shockwaves throughout my personal life AND affect the person I'm trying to "protect" :D" There was nothing indicating that she was on a "last-straw" basis with Sven.

I'm pretty sure off-screen, he said some things to her that made her think - rightly or wrongly - that this was the best move for her and incidentally for Faye. Since Faye knows nothing about that and is going to be up against the emotional wall with this news from Angus, that Sven/Dora shoe has to drop and it could directly affect what Faye chooses to do with Angus.
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swapna

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I am not sure about the off-screen talk between Dora and Sven. Dora does have a habit of making rash, irrational decisions in anger - harsh ones, too. No matter how incomplete her information is. Remember when she 'broke up'  with Marten when she saw him hugging Faye? What she does in her own time and with her boyfriend is nobody's business, but firing somebody because of that? (Yes, I know, Faye talked some sense into her, but 'Don't come into work tomorrow' is pretty unambiguous).
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plusorminus

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I am not sure about the off-screen talk between Dora and Sven. Dora does have a habit of making rash, irrational decisions in anger - harsh ones, too. No matter how incomplete her information is. Remember when she 'broke up'  with Marten when she saw him hugging Faye? What she does in her own time and with her boyfriend is nobody's business, but firing somebody because of that? (Yes, I know, Faye talked some sense into her, but 'Don't come into work tomorrow' is pretty unambiguous).

That was not one of Dora's finest moments. I've gone on record here saying that the very item you brought up nearly had me swear her off for good. There was no excuse for that sort of overreaction.

Still, I just can't see her doing something permanent with a family member based on third-hand info. *shrugs* That's just my opinion. Like, I can't see her having reacted that way to Faye or Marten if someone had just told her that they saw them hugging rather than her seeing it herself.

At any rate, I have a feeling we'll find out soon enough what actually happened there - if anything at all.
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TRVA123

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I just can't go with the "maybe it happened offscreen". This isn't a reality show, Jeph chooses what to show us.

If he doesn't show us an interaction between characters (and doesn't even HINT at the interaction) I think it is reasonable to assume that those "offscreen" interactions are irrelevant to the plot.
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