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Poll

And now act three...

Tropical Storm Martenclaire meets Northern Hurricane Faye for disastrous results
- 32 (26.2%)
The Svenectomy begins
- 16 (13.1%)
Tai razzes Marten and Claire till they're both as red as Claire's hair
- 16 (13.1%)
Steve Eating Cereal: The Legend Continues
- 8 (6.6%)
Clinton finally finds out that big sister has a boyfriend
- 41 (33.6%)
5 straight days of yelling bird cloaca jokes
- 9 (7.4%)

Total Members Voted: 117


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 14   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2816-2820 (20-24 October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 47496 times)

Emperor Norton

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I think Angus just doesn't pick up on things sometimes, rather than being genuinely self-centered. He tends to speak quickly without thinking, sticking his foot in his mouth a lot, and seems to miss things that are rather obvious to other people.

I mean, go back to his interaction with Marigold and her liking him. He just completely missed it even though it was pretty obvious. But once he knew what it was, he was very mature and considerate.
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valkygrrl

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Hugs aren't my forte.  I'm pretty sure I can count of the number of hugs I've had in my entire life on one hand.

Would you like a hug?
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LilShortstuf

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A spinoff comic staring the bros would be fantastic

Maybe the bros recruit Steve to be part of their secret order?

He's the secret member of the secret order. The HBIC, as it were.

Well Steve has already outed his Bro Sense.



The onus is on both of them. The responsibility for a relationship is NEVER on one person alone. He is responsible for fixing this, but so is she. Even if fixing it is just talking about what they want and coming to the conclusion that they can't be together anymore.

Exactly. No healthy relationship can be one-sided when it comes to any level of falling out, and, at least to me, their relationship so far has been pretty healthy. They both bear the onus of fixing this. What remains to be seen is whether both of them will be willing to bear it. If either one decides not to work for this then the relationship was over when Angus left the coffee shop.


EDIT: Fixed my link
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2014, 15:50 by LilShortstuf »
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Aziraphale

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Perfect Marten.  That was just perfect.

A-

In a perfect hug, either both close their eyes or neither.

Hug pedantry?

I like you!
Hugs aren't my forte.  I'm pretty sure I can count of the number of hugs I've had in my entire life on one hand.

That's far too few hugs. Unless, of course, you're not into that sort of thing.
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T

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From the other thread:

Anyone is feeling the urge to comfort Faye and tell her that everything will be alright?

Thanks Marten!
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valkygrrl

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No sign of Angus, how long has Faye been just standing there?
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GarandMarine

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Yeah, like GaRarity.

(I couldn't think of a good one for Fluttershy sorry)

Rarity is best pony, so I'm cool with that.
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No sign of Angus, how long has Faye been just standing there?

Long enough for Angus to leave, not long enough for Dora to swoop in to help.  And she's right there off-panel. Surely the customers annoying people who give her money aren't nearly as important as Faye right now.  What's going on?
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She's been there all weekend.
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Krald

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So after looking back through the comics i figured out why i dislike the tai/dora ship... tai was like all about getting in dora's pants like 80 strips after the break up, so like, days in comic time? You just don't jump on your friends ex like that, specially in a damn collage town where their are many fish in the sea
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Nyithra

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I'm pretty sure Tai thought Dora was hot even when Marten and her were dating. And didn't Marten tell Tai it would be alright? I'm too lazy to go digging through the archives right now.
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Lubricus

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BEST MARTEN EVER in the first panel today! Too sad he's not allowed to keep that face.
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Aziraphale

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I'm pretty sure Tai thought Dora was hot even when Marten and her were dating. And didn't Marten tell Tai it would be alright? I'm too lazy to go digging through the archives right now.

Strip 1949

Not quite permission, though later on (when Claire flips her wig over Dora and Tai, thinking Tai was "diddl[ing] someone else's lady" (IIRC her wording correctly), Marten more or less puts it that way.

ETA: There's also this,
"Meh, she's working on her issues. If it makes you both happy, I say go for it."
« Last Edit: 19 Oct 2014, 21:57 by Aziraphale »
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Jazzmaster

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Sure is a lot of hate for Angus' actions around here.

I don't know why it's his job to read her mind, or to hug her when she acts like she wants him to go away.

Maybe it's just the way I was raised, but if I acted like Faye was acting, nobody would say that it's the other person's fault for not trying to rip down whatever walls I put up, and see past whatever body language I used to communicate for them to leave me alone.  They'd either leave me alone, or they'd tell me to cut the shit and communicate what I actually want.

I am starting to doubt that this is the end of 'Fangus'...but we'll see
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Krald

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I'm pretty sure Tai thought Dora was hot even when Marten and her were dating. And didn't Marten tell Tai it would be alright? I'm too lazy to go digging through the archives right now.

There's nothing wrong with thinking someone is hot.  And martin may of said it was alright, but he sure didnt think it judging by his talk with steve later.  Either way it was a shitty spot for tai to put a very passive person in no matter what.
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The onus is on both of them. The responsibility for a relationship is NEVER on one person alone. He is responsible for fixing this, but so is she. Even if fixing it is just talking about what they want and coming to the conclusion that they can't be together anymore.

Exactly. No healthy relationship can be one-sided when it comes to any level of falling out, and, at least to me, their relationship so far has been pretty healthy. They both bear the onus of fixing this. What remains to be seen is whether both of them will be willing to bear it. If either one decides not to work for this then the relationship was over when Angus left the coffee shop.

In a perfect world. Equal right, equal responsibility, everyone doing the right thing.

It's not a perfect world, even in the QCverse. If it were, this situation wouldn't have happened.

Angus has less of crippling burden, therefore greater resources. If he wants a continuing relationship with Faye, that means he--as the party with more resources--has to take on more work.

A healthy relationship is not what they have. If they want a healthy relationship, their options are A) The healthiest person carries the load until the other can should some of it. B) Both parties wait until both parties have equal carrying capacity.

B is a bad choice, something Marty and Dora realized.

In the real world, no relationship is equal. A truly healthy relationship is one where both partners have sufficient opportunity to play to their strengths. Each supports the other in turn, as life throws complications at them. Who is supporting who might change so fast neither knows who's hold who up. Or one partner might end up under the load for years.

Faye's damage is extensive. Angus's isn't. His options are to support Faye in getting better, or admit he can't do that. It's not fair, but neither is life.

Of course, that calculus may be moot. Marten was ready to shoulder that burden for Dora. Dora didn't allow it. Nothing says Faye is going to do give Angus the chance. After all, it isn't fair.

plusorminus

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Long enough for Angus to leave, not long enough for Dora to swoop in to help.  And she's right there off-panel. Surely the customers annoying people who give her money aren't nearly as important as Faye right now.  What's going on?

I'm not sure how you know the second part is true? There's no real way to know how much time passed between the "I SHIP IT" strip and Angus walking in. I sort of think if Dora were in the near vicinity:

a) Angus would have said hi to her too

b) Dora would have offered a possible awkward congrats to him

c) She would have tried to get Faye's attention when the convo started going south

Yes, COD is Dora's business, but there's not really any evidence that she was just standing there gawking, ignored basically by Angus, when he came in and during the time he and Faye were talking. Could be wrong. *shrug*
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Jazzmaster

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In the real world, no relationship is equal. A truly healthy relationship is one where both partners have sufficient opportunity to play to their strengths. Each supports the other in turn, as life throws complications at them. Who is supporting who might change so fast neither knows who's hold who up. Or one partner might end up under the load for years.

Faye's damage is extensive. Angus's isn't. His options are to support Faye in getting better, or admit he can't do that. It's not fair, but neither is life.

Of course, that calculus may be moot. Marten was ready to shoulder that burden for Dora. Dora didn't allow it. Nothing says Faye is going to do give Angus the chance. After all, it isn't fair.

And for a while, Faye wanted to play these bullshit games where she "tested" Angus, and he was willing to put up with all of it.  Marten finally stepped in and encouraged her to push past her issues, and open herself up to the idea of dating again.

Perhaps Marten and/or Dora will have to step in and give her a little nudge again.  A nudge for Angus too perhaps, although nobody in Faye's circle is really all that close to him besides Faye herself, so I'm not sure that'll really happen.
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Gladstone

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I'm not sure how you know the second part is true? There's no real way to know how much time passed between the "I SHIP IT" strip and Angus walking in.

[...]

Yes, COD is Dora's business, but there's not really any evidence that she was just standing there gawking, ignored basically by Angus, when he came in and during the time he and Faye were talking. Could be wrong. *shrug*

Yeah, you're right, sorry.  I just keep picturing strips 2811-2815 mirroring strip #1663, with Dora just off to the side, only looking horrified instead of squeeful. It's my headcanon, but you don't have to respect that.  :-)
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Kugai

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And remember, Dora gave Faye more responsibility as to managing CoD so she could cut back on the amount of time she spends there

Nicely done Marten BTW
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We know Dora and Faye left the bar at the same time. If Faye's shift started at five, Dora probably opened. If she's there at all, she's doing business owner stuff in the back...counting beans. But she probably went home.

kerky

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Perfect Marten.  That was just perfect.
You took the words right out of my mouth off my keyboard...

Although I somehow wonder who this new self-secure, smart black-haired skinny indie-boy in QC is  :-D
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de_la_Nae



There's nothing wrong with thinking someone is hot.  And martin may of said it was alright, but he sure didnt think it judging by his talk with steve later.  Either way it was a shitty spot for tai to put a very passive person in no matter what.

Fuuuuuuuuuuck Marten on that one.

Time moves at the speed it needs to move in this strip; sometimes fast, sometimes slow. There is little solid understanding.

That said, when you no longer have a relationship, you have little legitimate say anymore. Sorry.

Tai and Marten talked several times, both jokingly and not, on Tai's attraction to Dora. Both before and after his and her's breakup. Both before and after Tai finally made a move on Dora.

Frankly, because Tai loves Marten, she kept a look out for his feelings way more than she needed to on the matter. Because Marten no longer had any stake in that part of Dora's life.

I've been on both sides of this, and I haven't always handled it well. But the truth is at a certain point if you spend all your time waiting for others to be okay with your decisions, then you'll never get to make any decisions. I don't remember Tai's exact words, but her sentiment finally of 'Screw waiting, we're going for it' was right.

And you'll remember that Marten, the one your argument indicates is the centrally hurt party by her actions, wishes her godspeed.

Anyway, that one's been rambling in my head for a while, had to finally chime in.

Lubricus

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World needs more Martens.

And not the bird kind.



I just remembered that I wrote a fairy tale-style short story about a marten for school once. It came out pretty good, I think. I wonder if my mother has kept it.
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BenRG

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"A true, true friend helps a friend in need,
A friend will be there to help them see!
A true, true friend helps a friend in need
To see the light that comes from a true, true friend!
"

Time enough for the explanation and wise counsel later. Right now, he just needs to let her cry (or as close to crying as Faye lets herself come).

Regarding timing, I suspect Marten and Angus passed eachother just outside the shop.

Now, is it me or was Marten humming a cheerful tune as he entered?
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2014, 05:24 by BenRG »
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Lubricus

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Now, is it me or was Marten humming a cheerful tune as he entered?

If it was you, which tune was it?  :-D
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BenRG

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I just hope it wasn't a creepy one like 'Tip-toe Through The Tulips'.
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Lubricus

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 :laugh:

I don't think Marten was humming, though. I can't imagine Jeph neglecting to draw notes around Martens's head if that was the case.
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Rghfrgl

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He's humming something, but you've probably never heard it before.
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GarandMarine

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"A true, true friend helps a friend in need,
A friend will be there to help them see!
A true, true friend helps a friend in need
To see the light that comes from a true, true friend!
"


Pony references all over the WCDT so far. The power Sassershy compels you!
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

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Not to tell you guys how to do your job, but aren't ship names somewhat frowned upon? Or is that just yacht names, since they have no cannon?

It's not a ship name if they're an actual couple.

I will admit to most of that post being a vehicle for the yacht joke.
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GarandMarine

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I figured. Thought I'd cut your joke's tires for fun though.
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I built the walls that make my life a prison, I built them all and cannot be forgiven... ...Sold my soul to carry your vendetta, So let me go before you can regret it, You've made your choice and now it's come to this, But that's price you pay when you're a monster with no name.

ASB84

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So after looking back through the comics i figured out why i dislike the tai/dora ship... tai was like all about getting in dora's pants like 80 strips after the break up, so like, days in comic time? You just don't jump on your friends ex like that, specially in a damn collage town where their are many fish in the sea

That's bugged me too, but at the end of the day, I figured that Marten's OK with it, so that's what really matters in-universe.
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Half Empty Coffee Cup

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So after looking back through the comics i figured out why i dislike the tai/dora ship... tai was like all about getting in dora's pants like 80 strips after the break up, so like, days in comic time? You just don't jump on your friends ex like that, specially in a damn collage town where their are many fish in the sea

That's bugged me too, but at the end of the day, I figured that Marten's OK with it, so that's what really matters in-universe.
If Marten were any chiller, he'd need resuscitation. Dude practically oozes reasonable thoughts. Like the thought that it really isn't up to him whether or not someone gets together with his ex or to judge someone for it, regardless of how soon it is.
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Emperor Norton

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In a perfect world. Equal right, equal responsibility, everyone doing the right thing.

It's not a perfect world, even in the QCverse. If it were, this situation wouldn't have happened.

Angus has less of crippling burden, therefore greater resources. If he wants a continuing relationship with Faye, that means he--as the party with more resources--has to take on more work.

A healthy relationship is not what they have. If they want a healthy relationship, their options are A) The healthiest person carries the load until the other can should some of it. B) Both parties wait until both parties have equal carrying capacity.

B is a bad choice, something Marty and Dora realized.

In the real world, no relationship is equal. A truly healthy relationship is one where both partners have sufficient opportunity to play to their strengths. Each supports the other in turn, as life throws complications at them. Who is supporting who might change so fast neither knows who's hold who up. Or one partner might end up under the load for years.

Faye's damage is extensive. Angus's isn't. His options are to support Faye in getting better, or admit he can't do that. It's not fair, but neither is life.

Of course, that calculus may be moot. Marten was ready to shoulder that burden for Dora. Dora didn't allow it. Nothing says Faye is going to do give Angus the chance. After all, it isn't fair.

You should check out the word you used. This post isn't necessarily incorrect, but the word you used before is ONUS. As in, the duty, the responsibility. He may have to put more work into this to get the relationship to work, but its not in any way his DUTY to do so. Even if the relationship continues, its not his duty to be perfect, while excusing her flaws because of trauma.

Trauma is an explanation, not an excuse.

We should all work to be sympathetic and understanding, but people still need to be held accountable for their shit. And that goes for whether someone has trauma or not. And that doesn't mean being a dick to them, or yelling at them, but pointing out when they are being unfair isn't going to far. Being upset with them hurting you is not going to far.

And that still comes to the simple fact: Angus can do zero to fix this until Faye is at least ready to talk to him about it. Literally nothing. So the idea that its all on him is absurd. If she doesn't want to listen, doesn't want to talk, anything he does can only make it worse.
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aphanisis81

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I have to say, my enjoyment of the bros' appearances is disproportionate to their prominence/importance to the strip. Love that library gag.

Agreed! The library strip, and also the one at the Horrible Revelation where they're just waiting with bated breath for Angus to say the word, are brilliant. Their presence is especially incongruous since they're clearly UMass students (and I'm not just stereotyping, one of them wears either a UMass cap or hoodie), and they're hanging out in Northampton - sometimes even at the Smith/Smif library - which is a highly inconvenient 10 mile drive from Amherst, and also one of the most bro-free places in New England.
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aphanisis81

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Now, is it me or was Marten humming a cheerful tune as he entered?

If it was you, which tune was it?  :-D

The theme to the old Andy Griffith Show, obvi.
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I'm not familiar with that, unfortunately.
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aphanisis81

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I'm not familiar with that, unfortunately.

It's just silly and upbeat and wholesome. Totally what I'd be whistling as I strode down Main St. NoHo after making first kisses with a gal I fancy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzQXeC5O01Y
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BenRG

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Once again, Jeph does so well with facial expressions and body language. When Faye looks up at Marten in panel 3, she's so clearly saying: "I'm hurt, I'm frightened and I'm alone and I don't know what to do!" That's why he hugged her - he knew that she needed reassurance that she's still loved and valued before anything else.

Marten joked that 'we' have adopted another one when Emily admitted she didn't have friends of her own outside of the interns and Marten's circle. However, it does seem to be his destiny in Northampton to acquire a whole bus-load of younger sisters, all with their different problems for which they are sort of reliant on 'big brother' Marten to help them handle. Even Dora is included in this, although I get the impression that she's more reliant on Tai of late (with the unanticipated consequence that Tai has become more reliant on Marten in turn).
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aphanisis81

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Once again, Jeph does so well with facial expressions and body language. When Faye looks up at Marten in panel 3, she's so clearly saying: "I'm hurt, I'm frightened and I'm alone and I don't know what to do!" That's why he hugged her - he knew that she needed reassurance that she's still loved and valued before anything else.

Marten joked that 'we' have adopted another one when Emily admitted she didn't have friends of her own outside of the interns and Marten's circle. However, it does seem to be his destiny in Northampton to acquire a whole bus-load of younger sisters, all with their different problems for which they are sort of reliant on 'big brother' Marten to help them handle. Even Dora is included in this, although I get the impression that she's more reliant on Tai of late (with the unanticipated consequence that Tai has become more reliant on Marten in turn).

Totally. Today's comic is just beautiful. With minimal dialogue, it's a heartrending reminder that Marten and Faye's relationship (and I mean that in the most platonic sense) is the core of QC, no matter how many more characters are introduced.

Faye's "thanks" is perfect, just perfect.

Is the timeline that this comic happened the day after the night out at the bar/headscratching makeouts? Which itself was the night after Too-Much-Crisis-Wine? Jeph's ability to tell stories at such a glacial pace never fails to impress.
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Lubricus

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When I look at it now, it kinda looks like Marten is sweeping the floor with an imaginary broom in the first panel.  :laugh:
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sitnspin

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There's nothing wrong with thinking someone is hot.  And martin may of said it was alright, but he sure didn't think it judging by his talk with steve later.  Either way it was a shitty spot for tai to put a very passive person in no matter what.

Fuuuuuuuuuuck Marten on that one.

Time moves at the speed it needs to move in this strip; sometimes fast, sometimes slow. There is little solid understanding.

That said, when you no longer have a relationship, you have little legitimate say anymore. Sorry.

Tai and Marten talked several times, both jokingly and not, on Tai's attraction to Dora. Both before and after his and her's breakup. Both before and after Tai finally made a move on Dora.

Frankly, because Tai loves Marten, she kept a look out for his feelings way more than she needed to on the matter. Because Marten no longer had any stake in that part of Dora's life.

I've been on both sides of this, and I haven't always handled it well. But the truth is at a certain point if you spend all your time waiting for others to be okay with your decisions, then you'll never get to make any decisions. I don't remember Tai's exact words, but her sentiment finally of 'Screw waiting, we're going for it' was right.

And you'll remember that Marten, the one your argument indicates is the centrally hurt party by her actions, wishes her godspeed.

Anyway, that one's been rambling in my head for a while, had to finally chime in.

My thoughts exactly. I never understood the whole "you can't date a friends' ex" thing. It is ridiculous and it is basically saying that a person's ex is their property and dating them is like stealing from them. Let's make this clear: You don't own anyone, people are free to making their own decisions and form whatever relationships make them mutually happy. You don't get to a say in who they date. Once the relationship is over, you no longer get to have any input.  Dating someone's ex is not "putting them in a shitty spot". They are your ex, it no longer concerns you.

I want my friends to be happy, I wouldn't think to stand in their way if being together makes them happy. Tai asked Marten if it was okay first, which is far more than she had any obligation to do.

Having a plethora of "options" should in no way impact someone's decision to pursue the person they have feeling for. You like who you like, the fact that you could date someone else instead doesn't change that.



As for today's comic, good job Marten, you are doing it right. A friend is there for you and supportive without needing to know why.
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aphanisis81

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There's nothing wrong with thinking someone is hot.  And martin may of said it was alright, but he sure didn't think it judging by his talk with steve later.  Either way it was a shitty spot for tai to put a very passive person in no matter what.

Fuuuuuuuuuuck Marten on that one.

Time moves at the speed it needs to move in this strip; sometimes fast, sometimes slow. There is little solid understanding.

That said, when you no longer have a relationship, you have little legitimate say anymore. Sorry.

Tai and Marten talked several times, both jokingly and not, on Tai's attraction to Dora. Both before and after his and her's breakup. Both before and after Tai finally made a move on Dora.

Frankly, because Tai loves Marten, she kept a look out for his feelings way more than she needed to on the matter. Because Marten no longer had any stake in that part of Dora's life.

I've been on both sides of this, and I haven't always handled it well. But the truth is at a certain point if you spend all your time waiting for others to be okay with your decisions, then you'll never get to make any decisions. I don't remember Tai's exact words, but her sentiment finally of 'Screw waiting, we're going for it' was right.

And you'll remember that Marten, the one your argument indicates is the centrally hurt party by her actions, wishes her godspeed.

Anyway, that one's been rambling in my head for a while, had to finally chime in.

My thoughts exactly. I never understood the whole "you can't date a friends' ex" thing. It is ridiculous and it is basically saying that a person's ex is their property and dating them is like stealing from them. Let's make this clear: You don't own anyone, people are free to making their own decisions and form whatever relationships make them mutually happy. You don't get to a say in who they date. Once the relationship is over, you no longer get to have any input.  Dating someone's ex is not "putting them in a shitty spot". They are your ex, it no longer concerns you.

I want my friends to be happy, I wouldn't think to stand in their way if being together makes them happy. Tai asked Marten if it was okay first, which is far more than she had any obligation to do.

Having a plethora of "options" should in no way impact someone's decision to pursue the person they have feeling for. You like who you like, the fact that you could date someone else instead doesn't change that.



As for today's comic, good job Marten, you are doing it right. A friend is there for you and supportive without needing to know why.

I don't think it's as simple as Krald puts it, but I think you're maybe oversimplifying too. Sure, it's not WRONG to date someone a friend used to date, but I think it's reasonable to say that by doing so, you're basically saying "I'm willing to risk your comfort and our friendship in order to be with this person." It basically prioritizes the romantic relationship over the friendship one.

But there are so many factors. How long were they together? How serious was it? What was the nature of the breakup? Who dumped whom? Is your friend basically over it and getting back out there, or drowning him/herself in whisky and listening to The Cure every night?
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Krald

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I don't think it's as simple as Krald puts it, but I think you're maybe oversimplifying too. Sure, it's not WRONG to date someone a friend used to date, but I think it's reasonable to say that by doing so, you're basically saying "I'm willing to risk your comfort and our friendship in order to be with this person." It basically prioritizes the romantic relationship over the friendship one.

But there are so many factors. How long were they together? How serious was it? What was the nature of the breakup? Who dumped whom? Is your friend basically over it and getting back out there, or drowning him/herself in whisky and listening to The Cure every night?

All i was stating was it was pretty douchy for her to leap on dora the moment she was free, mostly since it was a Dora freak out break up, not  hey this just isnt working out, despite marten saying it was a joint decision it really was not. Never said she couldn't date her, just let the poor guy who got kicked out of the relationship not see one of his friends all over his ex within like, weeks.
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ASB84

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Generally speaking, I think it's at least a contentious issue among groups of friends, even if it's not an outright taboo. I think if you were to hook up with a friend's ex pretty much right after a break-up, it's basically confirming that "Yeah, I've fancied your significant other for some time now", and seemingly implies - whether it's actually the case or not - that you've been waiting for things to fall apart so that you could make your move. It's kind of a lousy way to feel about a friend's partner, and not particularly considerate of their feelings or your friendship with them.
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sitnspin

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I don't think it's as simple as Krald puts it, but I think you're maybe oversimplifying too. Sure, it's not WRONG to date someone a friend used to date, but I think it's reasonable to say that by doing so, you're basically saying "I'm willing to risk your comfort and our friendship in order to be with this person." It basically prioritizes the romantic relationship over the friendship one.

But there are so many factors. How long were they together? How serious was it? What was the nature of the breakup? Who dumped whom? Is your friend basically over it and getting back out there, or drowning him/herself in whisky and listening to The Cure every night?

Obviously there are nuances and extenuating circumstances, and every situation is slightly different, but on the whole I still stand by my analysis.  It's also reasonable to say that if you are willing to prevent your friend from dating your ex you are saying that your comfort is more important than their potential happiness.  I can only speak for myself, but like I said I wouldn't want to stand in the way of my friends' happiness and I'd not expect them to need or request my permission. I stand by my position that preventing, or attempting to prevent, a friend from dating your ex is a selfish asshole move and reeks of entitlement.
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