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Poll

And now act three...

Tropical Storm Martenclaire meets Northern Hurricane Faye for disastrous results
- 32 (26.2%)
The Svenectomy begins
- 16 (13.1%)
Tai razzes Marten and Claire till they're both as red as Claire's hair
- 16 (13.1%)
Steve Eating Cereal: The Legend Continues
- 8 (6.6%)
Clinton finally finds out that big sister has a boyfriend
- 41 (33.6%)
5 straight days of yelling bird cloaca jokes
- 9 (7.4%)

Total Members Voted: 110


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 14   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2816-2820 (20-24 October 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 111043 times)

snubnose

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Yeesh the poll is just stupid today, not gonna vote on that.

Comic is ADOREABLE ! :-D
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Carpe Diem

BenRG

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What I found interesting about Tai asking Marten's 'permission' to have a relationship with Dora is the degree to which she was using Marten as a sounding board to work out her own feelings of inadequacy to do so.

So, yeah, that's the point when she became another of Marten's gang of little sisters.
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2014, 05:29 by BenRG »
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sitnspin

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All i was stating was it was pretty douchy for her to leap on dora the moment she was free, mostly since it was a Dora freak out break up, not  hey this just isn't working out, despite marten saying it was a joint decision it really was not. Never said she couldn't date her, just let the poor guy who got kicked out of the relationship not see one of his friends all over his ex within like, weeks.

Except it WAS a mutual decision. She freaked out, yes, but the freak out was not what ended the relationship. The freak out was just what sparked the conversation that lead to the agreement that it wasn't working out.  And she didn't jump on him the moment Dora was free.  As you said, it was weeks later.

So what, in your sage opinion, is an acceptable amount of time? Months? Years? Or, here's a thought, how about after he actually flat out said it was okay? Which he did.
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@syleegrrl

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And that still comes to the simple fact: Angus can do zero to fix this until Faye is at least ready to talk to him about it. Literally nothing. So the idea that its all on him is absurd. If she doesn't want to listen, doesn't want to talk, anything he does can only make it worse.
There's also the matter of his own emotional state too.
OK, he's been in denial. Well so has Faye. No-one's fault, we all tend to cross fingers and hope for the best. As do Claire and Marten. Often it works. When it doesn't - we see the results here.

Marten did good.

I hope that Angus gets the same degree of support. He needs it, and deserves it, too. Right now, I can imagine him just sitting, staring into a fire. As guys tend to do, in my experience.
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plusorminus

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All i was stating was it was pretty douchy for her to leap on dora the moment she was free, mostly since it was a Dora freak out break up, not  hey this just isn't working out, despite marten saying it was a joint decision it really was not. Never said she couldn't date her, just let the poor guy who got kicked out of the relationship not see one of his friends all over his ex within like, weeks.

Except it WAS a mutual decision. She freaked out, yes, but the freak out was not what ended the relationship. The freak out was just what sparked the conversation that lead to the agreement that it wasn't working out.  And she didn't jump on him the moment Dora was free.  As you said, it was weeks later.

So what, in your sage opinion, is an acceptable amount of time? Months? Years? Or, here's a thought, how about after he actually flat out said it was okay? Which he did.

I'm kinda wondering why you're being so hostile about this?  :? I incline more to your side, but I think the sarcasm and anger in the bolded is really uncalled for. If it's cool for you to have your opinion on this, why isn't it cool for others to have theirs? Some people just feel that dating a friend's ex is crappy for whatever reason.
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2014, 05:46 by plusorminus »
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Aimless

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Obviously there are nuances and extenuating circumstances, and every situation is slightly different, but on the whole I still stand by my analysis.  It's also reasonable to say that if you are willing to prevent your friend from dating your ex you are saying that your comfort is more important than their potential happiness.  I can only speak for myself, but like I said I wouldn't want to stand in the way of my friends' happiness and I'd not expect them to need or request my permission. I stand by my position that preventing, or attempting to prevent, a friend from dating your ex is a selfish asshole move and reeks of entitlement.

Every pair of friends will have to make their own decisions wrt this sorta thing. However, the matter of "getting in the way" of someone's happiness isn't so cut-and-dried. You can't change the fact that you were in a relationship with someone and that the relationship ended, for whatever reason. Usually, if you feel bad about it, you can't immediatly change the way it feels to have that person remain in your life but in a relationship with your friend, a constant reminder of the companionship, love and the happiness you lost or as a constant source of unhappiness caused by eg. the crappy behavior to which you subjected each other. Seen in that light, it's your friend who may be in the way of your healing and your future happiness--never mind making an iffy statement about the legitimacy of whatever caused your relationship to break down, eg. constant contempt and mistreatment in pertinent cases--as much as the other way around. Unless your friend is in very dire straits, there are probably other people out there with which they can attempt to find happiness. You're not really very much "in the way" if there are a thousand other paths for your friend to take.

None of the foregoing is relevant to Marten/Dora/Tai. Marten's a chill dude and he and Dora didn't mistreat each other so much as they were both borked.
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aphanisis81

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I don't think it's as simple as Krald puts it, but I think you're maybe oversimplifying too. Sure, it's not WRONG to date someone a friend used to date, but I think it's reasonable to say that by doing so, you're basically saying "I'm willing to risk your comfort and our friendship in order to be with this person." It basically prioritizes the romantic relationship over the friendship one.

But there are so many factors. How long were they together? How serious was it? What was the nature of the breakup? Who dumped whom? Is your friend basically over it and getting back out there, or drowning him/herself in whisky and listening to The Cure every night?

All i was stating was it was pretty douchy for her to leap on dora the moment she was free, mostly since it was a Dora freak out break up, not  hey this just isnt working out, despite marten saying it was a joint decision it really was not. Never said she couldn't date her, just let the poor guy who got kicked out of the relationship not see one of his friends all over his ex within like, weeks.

I agree with you with respect to the QC scenario. I was just trying to split the difference as far as applying the ex's friends principle across the board, which I see now you weren't doing anyway. Sorry for misrepresenting your position, wasn't my intent.
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sitnspin

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Like I said, circumstances vary. No view is entirely correct in all situations. I did make it clear that this is how I view the subject in my own life. Then again, in my social circles, if no one was allowed to date anyone's ex, no one would be able to date anyone. Even in bigger cities, the dating for us gay ladies is not that huge. But, regardless, as I said earlier the number of potential partners should not be a factor in deciding whether or not to pursue who you fancy.

If a friend broke up with someone because the woman mistreated her, I'd have no interest in dating that person because she obviously doesn't treat people very well. If i just got out of a relationship because the person mistreated me, I wouldn't want my friend to date her because I wouldn't my friend to be involved with someone who would mistreat her, not because I'd be hurt by it.
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@syleegrrl

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If a friend broke up with someone because the woman mistreated her, I'd have no interest in dating that person because she obviously doesn't treat people very well. If i just got out of a relationship because the person mistreated me, I wouldn't want my friend to date her because I wouldn't my friend to be involved with someone who would mistreat her, not because I'd be hurt by it.

With reference to this particular caveat, it's interesting that one of the terms under which Marten gave his permission was that Dora had 'got her head screwed on'. In other words, Marten was aware of Dora's emotional health issues and would have warned Tai off if he thought it was a bad idea for either of them to try this.
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Krald

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Sorry for derailing the thread, i did try and mention it when it was more relevant but it was lost in all the squeeeing
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BenRG

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I hope that Angus gets the same degree of support. He needs it, and deserves it, too. Right now, I can imagine him just sitting, staring into a fire. As guys tend to do, in my experience.

Do you know what I'd like? I'd like for Angus to go into a bar to drown his sorrows and encounter Sven. The two of them get talking (not knowing who the other is, at least at first). Sven gives Angus a verbal slap-down about giving up so easily and letting Faye go. "Here's a bit of free advice, man. I made the biggest fuck-up in my life when I let that woman walk out of my life because I was scared of committing to her. If I were you? If I had the choices you now have? I'd hold on to her so tight that the only way they could seperate us would be to cut my cold, rotting corpse loose. Now get back there and prove to her that you love her as much as she deserves!"

[edit]
For some reason, I just suddenly had a flash of Sven being Angus's Cyrano de Bergerac, providing the words Angus needs to reassure Faye and win her back. Only Dora, who knows her brother's lyrical style so well, recognises that the words are his and knows just what he's willing to do to make Faye happy.
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anahata

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Now get back there and prove to her that you love her as much as she deserves!"

He doesn't have much wiggle room though, does he?
Giving up his new job offer would be terrible for them both, as discussed many times before.
So Faye is forced to choose between LDR and moving to NY, neither of which she seems to want much.

The only damage that Angus can repair is to apologise for expecting Faye to be unreservedly happy for him, focus on her needs and maybe talk about what they can do to make the LDR option as painless as possible.

It seems incredible that they didn't discuss this before. Maybe neither of them really thought he'd get the job.
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MooskiNet

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Heh - it's never been Sven's silver tongue that worked on Faye.  That was pure pheromones, man.
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eschaton

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Agreed! The library strip, and also the one at the Horrible Revelation where they're just waiting with bated breath for Angus to say the word, are brilliant. Their presence is especially incongruous since they're clearly UMass students (and I'm not just stereotyping, one of them wears either a UMass cap or hoodie), and they're hanging out in Northampton - sometimes even at the Smith/Smif library - which is a highly inconvenient 10 mile drive from Amherst, and also one of the most bro-free places in New England.

Hey!  I'm a UMass graduate (lived in the Valley for six years, between undergrad and masters), and I spent quite a lot of time in Noho.  I could name drop places, but it was all over ten years ago now, and probably only a small slice of the forum actually knows Northampton well. 

Of course, no one would ever have confused me for a Bro. 
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GarandMarine

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I've always seen it as a matter of courtesy "Hey are you okay with seeing this person again on a regular basis? Are you solid there emotionally or do you not want to deal with it?" There's also the matter of minimizing the drama that can infect small groups of friends. I think the major issue here that people are having with Marten/Tai/Dora is that Marten's passive as all fuck, so it's possible that in her enthusiasm she was tossing her friend under the bus. That obviously hasn't happened in this situation, so all good, but this kind of crap, especially with even vaguely volatile individuals involved, has detonated groups of people I really miss hanging out with.

I don't think Angus is going to get that pep talk, and I doubt Sven is the kind of man who could even begin to give it. In the end this was a short relationship they both enjoyed, but this is Angus's dream. A man (or a woman) has gotta do what they've gotta do, and if you have a dream, a passion, then you do anything you have to do to chase that and don't look back. The lives we have in many cases are relatively comfortable and easy, taking the plunge into the unknown is harsh, and terrifying, but there's no better moment in life then right after you cut yourself free and make a leap of faith.
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Zebediah

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I hope that Angus gets the same degree of support. He needs it, and deserves it, too. Right now, I can imagine him just sitting, staring into a fire. As guys tend to do, in my experience.

And this is where Momo comes in. She's experienced at offering emotional support, be it a shoulder to cry on or a (metaphorical) kick in the pants.
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Neko_Ali

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Do you know what I'd like? I'd like for Angus to go into a bar to drown his sorrows and encounter Sven. The two of them get talking (not knowing who the other is, at least at first). Sven gives Angus a verbal slap-down about giving up so easily and letting Faye go. "Here's a bit of free advice, man. I made the biggest fuck-up in my life when I let that woman walk out of my life because I was scared of committing to her. If I were you? If I had the choices you now have? I'd hold on to her so tight that the only way they could seperate us would be to cut my cold, rotting corpse loose. Now get back there and prove to her that you love her as much as she deserves!"

I have to say.. this creeps me out, a lot. I can totally see Sven saying that, because that's the sort of advice you would get from a romantic comedy which is where Sven seems to be picking up a lot of his relationship advice from. RomComs I'm finding to be pretty horrible about depicting healthy relationships. Your girl broke up with you because she has serious emotional issues and deep seated psychological scars and now can't deal with a a LDR because it feels to much like abandonment? You need to keep pressing her and holding on, no matter what she says or does, and eventually she'll cave in and life will be good forever!"

Yea, no. Life doesn't work like that. What is needed is what is going on right now. They need to got their separate ways for a bit. They need some hugs and talk things out with their friends and get some support. They need some time to come down off the panic attack and pull themselves out of the deep depression they are in, then they can talk about it, openly and honestly, when they are in a better place. Maybe things will work out and they decide to give it a try, that their relationship is important enough for Faye to push out of her comfort zone and grow. Maybe they'll decide their relationship isn't worth the pain and part with well wishes to each other. But pushing Faye to deal with something she isn't ready to deal with right now isn't going to help anyone. It's just going to make Faye feel more down about herself and going to upset both of them more.
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jwhouk

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I'm not familiar with that, unfortunately.
It's just silly and upbeat and wholesome. Totally what I'd be whistling as I strode down Main St. NoHo after making first kisses with a gal I fancy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzQXeC5O01Y

Trivia: It actually has a name. "The Fishin' Hole."
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Endellion

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I hope that Angus gets the same degree of support. He needs it, and deserves it, too. Right now, I can imagine him just sitting, staring into a fire. As guys tend to do, in my experience.

And this is where Momo comes in. She's experienced at offering emotional support, be it a shoulder to cry on or a (metaphorical) kick in the pants.

If it's an actual kick in the pants that is needed, May might still be hanging at the apartment.
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Welu

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That last few strips have been hitting kind of close with me, as do most where Faye is down.

Marten did a cool thing. Go friendship!

TieDyeKat

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For some reason, I just suddenly had a flash of Sven being Angus's Cyrano de Bergerac, providing the words Angus needs to reassure Faye and win her back. Only Dora, who knows her brother's lyrical style so well, recognises that the words are his and knows just what he's willing to do to make Faye happy.

I dunno, I think only Wil gets that sort of favor...

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1213
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BenRG

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Well, it's more his "I've got a girl and I'm happy" walk, more than anything else. Either way,  I really want to know what happened between the pancake breakfast and Marten entering Coffee of Doom some time after 5pm!
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Carl-E

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I'm not familiar with that, unfortunately.
It's just silly and upbeat and wholesome. Totally what I'd be whistling as I strode down Main St. NoHo after making first kisses with a gal I fancy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzQXeC5O01Y

Trivia: It actually has a name. "The Fishin' Hole."

And words. 

Well, now, take down your fishin' pole and meet me at The Fishin' Hole,
We may not get a bite all day, but don't you rush away.

What a great place to rest your bones and mighty fine for skippin' stones,
You'll feel fresh as a lemonade, a-settin' in the shade.

Whether it's hot, whether it's cool, oh what a spot for whistlin' like a fool.

What a fine day to take a stroll and wander by The Fishin' Hole,
I can't think of a better way to pass the time o' day.

We'll have no need to call the roll when we get to The Fishin' Hole,
There'll be you, me, and Old Dog Trey, to doodle time away.

If we don't hook a perch or bass, we'll cool our toes in dewy grass,
Or else pull up a weed to chaw, and maybe set and jaw.

Hangin' around, takin' our ease, watchin' that hound a-scratchin' at his fleas.

Come on, take down your fishin' pole and meet me at The Fishin' Hole,
I can't think of a better way to pass the time o' day.
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Carl-E

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Well, it's more his "I've got a girl and I'm happy" walk, more than anything else. Either way,  I really want to know what happened between the pancake breakfast and Marten entering Coffee of Doom some time after 5pm!

It's not after 5 yet, that's when Faye gets off work. 

She's still on the clock, which makes an emotional crisis even worse...
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Zandin

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I just can't understand the Angus hate on this forum right now. She asked him questions, he had a plan, one that DID include her. He knew she didn't want to move to the city, so he didn't even ask. Faye immediately gets aggressive, and then refuses to talk when he tries to take it seriously. Sorry, but dream career obviously wins over the girl you've been seeing for a couple months. especially if she isn't supportive. I know the forum has had over a decade to get to know Faye, but to defend her here is ridiculous when she is obviously the one with issues she refuses to deal with. I'm gonna be really disappointed in Jeph if he only plays the "Angus is an ass" card.
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aphanisis81

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I'm not familiar with that, unfortunately.
It's just silly and upbeat and wholesome. Totally what I'd be whistling as I strode down Main St. NoHo after making first kisses with a gal I fancy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzQXeC5O01Y

Trivia: It actually has a name. "The Fishin' Hole."

And words. 

Well, now, take down your fishin' pole and meet me at The Fishin' Hole,
We may not get a bite all day, but don't you rush away.

What a great place to rest your bones and mighty fine for skippin' stones,
You'll feel fresh as a lemonade, a-settin' in the shade.

Whether it's hot, whether it's cool, oh what a spot for whistlin' like a fool.

What a fine day to take a stroll and wander by The Fishin' Hole,
I can't think of a better way to pass the time o' day.

We'll have no need to call the roll when we get to The Fishin' Hole,
There'll be you, me, and Old Dog Trey, to doodle time away.

If we don't hook a perch or bass, we'll cool our toes in dewy grass,
Or else pull up a weed to chaw, and maybe set and jaw.

Hangin' around, takin' our ease, watchin' that hound a-scratchin' at his fleas.

Come on, take down your fishin' pole and meet me at The Fishin' Hole,
I can't think of a better way to pass the time o' day.

Mind blown.
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BenRG

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Well, it's more his "I've got a girl and I'm happy" walk, more than anything else. Either way,  I really want to know what happened between the pancake breakfast and Marten entering Coffee of Doom some time after 5pm!

It's not after 5 yet, that's when Faye gets off work. 

Incorrect, Faye's shift today started at 5pm. Agreed that she's still on the clock but it's late afternoon/early evening right now. Marten has likely spent the entire day with Claire, unless she had work and he was on his day off. I'm thinking it's the former, given the walk.
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Carl-E

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Ooops... I'm gonna blame it on old(er) age...

Mind blown.

Andy Griffith was an early "country" star before getting into TV and movies, this is off one of his records.  The TV theme was taken from the whistling breaks in the middle and end of the song. 
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Staff_Inflection

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I don't think it's as simple as Krald puts it, but I think you're maybe oversimplifying too. Sure, it's not WRONG to date someone a friend used to date, but I think it's reasonable to say that by doing so, you're basically saying "I'm willing to risk your comfort and our friendship in order to be with this person." It basically prioritizes the romantic relationship over the friendship one.

But there are so many factors. How long were they together? How serious was it? What was the nature of the breakup? Who dumped whom? Is your friend basically over it and getting back out there, or drowning him/herself in whisky and listening to The Cure every night?

All i was stating was it was pretty douchy for her to leap on dora the moment she was free, mostly since it was a Dora freak out break up, not  hey this just isnt working out, despite marten saying it was a joint decision it really was not. Never said she couldn't date her, just let the poor guy who got kicked out of the relationship not see one of his friends all over his ex within like, weeks.

That's pretty much how Dora/Marten got started, no? As soon as the path was clear, she jumped on it
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Neko_Ali

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Kinda-sorta. Faye and Marten never dated. Dora just stood back and didn't get involved until Faye made it clear nothing was ever going to happen between the two of them.
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Staff_Inflection

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Yeah, I know that. Its just an observation of something of an established pattern regarding Dora and relationships

Also, people are waaaay too forgiving of Faye's actions. As someone said before: her issues are an explanation, not an excuse.
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Carl-E

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But I'm not completely sure that it's her issues that are the whole main problem. 

She's been faking it, hoping to make it.  And she just realized that she hasn't made it.  One of the biggest successes of his life, and she feels... stressed. 

Not happy, even for him. 

I think she's just realized that she's not in love with him.  Not even 'anymore' - possibly she never was.  The relevant strips have been referenced by others upthread. 
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Faye was trapped in a no-win situation. The worst thing she did here was going to everyone else to talk about her problems and worries about if Angus gets the job except for the person she should have been talking to, Angus. But that's what society tells us to do, yes? Be there for your partner. Support them and be happy for them, even if it's tearing you apart. I've said it over and over again, Faye is as much a victim here as Angus.
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Conzy

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I just can't understand the Angus hate on this forum right now. She asked him questions, he had a plan, one that DID include her. He knew she didn't want to move to the city, so he didn't even ask. Faye immediately gets aggressive, and then refuses to talk when he tries to take it seriously. Sorry, but dream career obviously wins over the girl you've been seeing for a couple months. especially if she isn't supportive. I know the forum has had over a decade to get to know Faye, but to defend her here is ridiculous when she is obviously the one with issues she refuses to deal with. I'm gonna be really disappointed in Jeph if he only plays the "Angus is an ass" card.

I've been hoping someone would say this. So many people jumped down his throat for the couch gag last week, despite no-one deciding to point out that he was only there while looking for a place of his own which wouldn't take long. Angus was under the impression that an LDR would take place for a while because he discussed his feelings and ambitions openly with Faye and she agreed. How on earth was he meant to know she wasn't being honest?

Faye was trapped in a no-win situation. The worst thing she did here was going to everyone else to talk about her problems and worries about if Angus gets the job except for the person she should have been talking to, Angus. But that's what society tells us to do, yes? Be there for your partner. Support them and be happy for them, even if it's tearing you apart. I've said it over and over again, Faye is as much a victim here as Angus.

Not wanting to sound rude, but blaming society because Faye wasn't willing to tell Angus how she felt seems like clutching at straws to me. There comes a time where we have to take responsibility for our own (in)actions.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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You should check out the word you used. This post isn't necessarily incorrect, but the word you used before is ONUS. As in, the duty, the responsibility. He may have to put more work into this to get the relationship to work, but its not in any way his DUTY to do so.

If he wants things to work, it is something he's going to have to take responsibility for.

Onus is a duty OR responsibility, using only google to look it up. Interestingly, if you check with various dictionary sources, you get different definitions entirely. It turns out onus is a word that has many meanings. Who'd have thunk it?

The most common first definition of the word is "difficult or unpleasant task," which I think accurately sums up the situation. It's certainly the sense I used.

Accountability is overrated, especially in situations like this. It follows from the western fetish for punishment and vengeance. I'm not sure how revenge is useful in this context. If you care about someone, you try to help them. Period. If you can't because of other emotion, you admit the other emotion is stronger than your ability to care about that person. It's all rather simple, but we value judge the caring to the extent that not caring enough is something only bad people do. Since we aren't bad people, it must be someone else's fault. BS self justification, but lying to ourselves so we can judge others is fundamental to the human condition.

You keep going on about Faye not letting Angus do whatever, as if I haven't already acknowledged that. This is a relationship based comic. It's unlikely that Angus is a serial killer, or will die in the war. (Though, Angus getting killed would be the ultimate "fuck you" from the author to this particular character.) Barring death, its fairly likely that Faye and Angus are going to interact again. To what extent remains unknown. Perhaps Angus is the new Padma, and last week was his final appearance.

My analysis of the situation has always been contingent upon the continuation of the relationship. It simply doesn't apply otherwise. Your argument that Faye doesn't all doesn't apply to the circumstances where my analysis applies. I also addressed that scenario at the outset. It's a null result. Game over. Relationship end. I really don't understand why you think anyone would have suggested that Angus could force a relationship on Faye. The idea that he could emotionally support her against her will is, frankly, ludicrous.

MooskiNet

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But I'm not completely sure that it's her issues that are the whole main problem. 

She's been faking it, hoping to make it.  And she just realized that she hasn't made it.  One of the biggest successes of his life, and she feels... stressed. 

Not happy, even for him. 

I think she's just realized that she's not in love with him.  Not even 'anymore' - possibly she never was.  The relevant strips have been referenced by others upthread.

Yup, this.  All the things Faye was hoping she wouldn't have to face showed up with a 7-day deadline, and she just froze. 

Unless she has a major change of heart, my guess is Angus is gone for good, and I don't fault him for it, in spite of my knee-jerk reaction to his seeming callousness last week.
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Aziraphale

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I hope that Angus gets the same degree of support. He needs it, and deserves it, too. Right now, I can imagine him just sitting, staring into a fire. As guys tend to do, in my experience.

And this is where Momo comes in. She's experienced at offering emotional support, be it a shoulder to cry on or a (metaphorical) kick in the pants.

Angus really doesn't have a support network that we've seen. Aside from Faye, who's he really got? He may go to Marten again as he did before he left for New York, but may feel awkward doing that because Marten has a longer history with Faye than he does. Marigold's somewhere between roommate and kid sister. Yeah, guess that does leave Momo.

I don't think Marten was humming, though. I can't imagine Jeph neglecting to draw notes around Martens's head if that was the case.

He looks like he's air-drumming as he walks in the first frame, which makes it likely he's humming the theme from Shaft.

And we can dig it.

But I'm not completely sure that it's her issues that are the whole main problem. 

She's been faking it, hoping to make it.  And she just realized that she hasn't made it.  One of the biggest successes of his life, and she feels... stressed. 

Not happy, even for him. 

I think she's just realized that she's not in love with him.  Not even 'anymore' - possibly she never was.  The relevant strips have been referenced by others upthread.

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Emperor Norton

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Accountability is overrated, especially in situations like this. It follows from the western fetish for punishment and vengeance. I'm not sure how revenge is useful in this context. If you care about someone, you try to help them. Period. If you can't because of other emotion, you admit the other emotion is stronger than your ability to care about that person. It's all rather simple, but we value judge the caring to the extent that not caring enough is something only bad people do. Since we aren't bad people, it must be someone else's fault. BS self justification, but lying to ourselves so we can judge others is fundamental to the human condition.

And you are only applying this to Angus. You aren't applying this to Faye at all. You treat Angus like none of this hurts him, that Faye doesn't, in any way, need to be there for him, as well. She is the one who has issues that are preventing the issue from even being DEALT with. Why is Angus responsible for Faye's happiness, but Faye seems to be in no way responsible for his?

In the end, they have to work together. Nothing else WORKS. A one sided relationship isn't a relationship. And throughout their relationship, it HASN'T been one sided, though hehasn't had any major dramas, she hasn't been doing nothing but leaching off him. I think people don't give Faye enough credit, she has issues, but she isn't an emotional cripple. Its insulting the way everyone just absolves any possible responsibility she has for her actions, as though having issues suddenly makes you have the culpability of a child.

I have personal past issues that cause me to be inable to let go of arguments. When I get angry, I can't walk away. I would have never done what Angus did in this scene, which is why I know how much it was the right thing to do. I know why I'm like that, I can link it to specific issues in my past that I have no interest in talking about. I know that it happens. But that doesn't make it not a shit thing for me to do to my wife. That doesn't mean I'm not wrong. And it doesn't mean I can't do everything I can to make it better, by both making it happen less often, and trying to repair the damage it does when it does happen.

I'm responsible for it. My wife isn't responsible for it. Me. Because despite being a damaged individual, I'm a goddamned adult.
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Shjade

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Comic is ADOREABLE ! :-D

Sad Faye is saddest Faye. ;.;
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Somnus Eternus

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  • IT'S DEFINITELY LUPUS.

All I know is that after this discussion, I'm picturing Marten as Andy Griffith.

And Clinton is Barney Fife.
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Pilchard123

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I figured. Thought I'd cut your joke's tires for fun though.

Boats don't have tires.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Accountability is overrated, especially in situations like this. It follows from the western fetish for punishment and vengeance. I'm not sure how revenge is useful in this context. If you care about someone, you try to help them. Period. If you can't because of other emotion, you admit the other emotion is stronger than your ability to care about that person. It's all rather simple, but we value judge the caring to the extent that not caring enough is something only bad people do. Since we aren't bad people, it must be someone else's fault. BS self justification, but lying to ourselves so we can judge others is fundamental to the human condition.

And you are only applying this to Angus. You aren't applying this to Faye at all. You treat Angus like none of this hurts him, that Faye doesn't, in any way, need to be there for him, as well. She is the one who has issues that are preventing the issue from even being DEALT with. Why is Angus responsible for Faye's happiness, but Faye seems to be in no way responsible for his?

In the end, they have to work together. Nothing else WORKS. A one sided relationship isn't a relationship. And throughout their relationship, it HASN'T been one sided, though hehasn't had any major dramas, she hasn't been doing nothing but leaching off him. I think people don't give Faye enough credit, she has issues, but she isn't an emotional cripple. Its insulting the way everyone just absolves any possible responsibility she has for her actions, as though having issues suddenly makes you have the culpability of a child.

I have personal past issues that cause me to be inable to let go of arguments. When I get angry, I can't walk away. I would have never done what Angus did in this scene, which is why I know how much it was the right thing to do. I know why I'm like that, I can link it to specific issues in my past that I have no interest in talking about. I know that it happens. But that doesn't make it not a shit thing for me to do to my wife. That doesn't mean I'm not wrong. And it doesn't mean I can't do everything I can to make it better, by both making it happen less often, and trying to repair the damage it does when it does happen.

I'm responsible for it. My wife isn't responsible for it. Me. Because despite being a damaged individual, I'm a goddamned adult.

That's your inference and has nothing at all to do with what I actually wrote. I'd rather not get involved in an infinite regression of strawmen. I don't have issue with misunderstandings, but here you are inventing a point of view and ascribing it to me. I've considered several options for explaining how this argument is unrelated to anything I've said, but I can't see a way to do that without legitimizing this tactic of putting words in my mouth. I don't doubt you sincerely believe that your invention and my point of view are connected, but I don't have any particular onus to correct you. dealing with the finer points of character motivation is entertaining, and I'd be happy to address this one, if it were raised as a simple objection--suggesting that it's a consequence, or raising it as a what if.  instead, youare trying to force me to defend it, and I've no interest in that.

Aziraphale

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I figured. Thought I'd cut your joke's tires for fun though.

Boats don't have tires.

What if the boat's on a trailer?

("What if he attacks you with a pointed stick?")
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Pilchard123

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Fresh fruit not good enough for you, eh?
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Emperor Norton

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That's your inference and has nothing at all to do with what I actually wrote. I'd rather not get involved in an infinite regression of strawmen. I don't have issue with misunderstandings, but here you are inventing a point of view and ascribing it to me. I've considered several options for explaining how this argument is unrelated to anything I've said, but I can't see a way to do that without legitimizing this tactic of putting words in my mouth. I don't doubt you sincerely believe that your invention and my point of view are connected, but I don't have any particular onus to correct you. dealing with the finer points of character motivation is entertaining, and I'd be happy to address this one, if it were raised as a simple objection--suggesting that it's a consequence, or raising it as a what if.  instead, youare trying to force me to defend it, and I've no interest in that.

How have you not been saying that its on Angus to carry the burden of her issues as well as carrying his own issues without any support, that if the relationship is to continue, that is all on him?

If the relationship is going to continue, its on him to listen and be understanding, but its on her to actually talk so he can listen. They both have things they have to do.

Unrelated and to other people who have said this: somehow saying that Angus is worse than Marten because Marten could switch gears is absurd: There is a huge difference between "I'm happy about something unrelated, and my friend seems really sad" and "I'm happy about something, and my girlfriend is upset about it, despite never bringing up she had an issue with it before." Its a whole lot harder to switch gears when the reason someone is upset is because of YOU and it feels unfair.
« Last Edit: 20 Oct 2014, 12:28 by Emperor Norton »
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DSL

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Tugboats often have old tires down the sides as fenders. Or the boat could be an AmphiCar, a "Seep" or a DUKW. Tires.
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Aziraphale

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Tugboats often have old tires down the sides as fenders. Or the boat could be an AmphiCar, a "Seep" or a DUKW. Tires.

Funny, I almost made a comment about a DUKW, but I didn't know if anybody'd get it.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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That's your inference and has nothing at all to do with what I actually wrote. I'd rather not get involved in an infinite regression of strawmen. I don't have issue with misunderstandings, but here you are inventing a point of view and ascribing it to me. I've considered several options for explaining how this argument is unrelated to anything I've said, but I can't see a way to do that without legitimizing this tactic of putting words in my mouth. I don't doubt you sincerely believe that your invention and my point of view are connected, but I don't have any particular onus to correct you. dealing with the finer points of character motivation is entertaining, and I'd be happy to address this one, if it were raised as a simple objection--suggesting that it's a consequence, or raising it as a what if.  instead, youare trying to force me to defend it, and I've no interest in that.

How have you not been saying that its on Angus to carry the burden of her issues as well as carrying his own issues without any support, that if the relationship is to continue, that is all on him?

If the relationship is going to continue, its on him to listen and be understanding, but its on her to actually talk so he can listen. They both have things they have to do.

Unrelated and to other people who have said this: somehow saying that Angus is worse than Marten because Marten could switch gears is absurd: There is a huge difference between "I'm happy about something unrelated, and my friend seems really sad" and "I'm happy about something, and my girlfriend is upset about it, despite never bringing up she had an issue with it before." Its a whole lot harder to switch gears when the reason someone is upset is because of YOU and it feels unfair.

Everything I have said is still up there. Read it again, and try not seeing what you want to see. I'm not going to justify your interpretation. This is a strawman, and I don't have any interest in it.

EDIT: Or don't reread, and declare yourself victorious. I'm not interested in being adversarial, and you telling me what I said and mean is just that.
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